Tone Woods

[Akira]

There is a thread about this in guitar, but it will get more interesting answers in here.

Basically, can someone explain to me how the wood of a guitar's body affects the tone. Because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

[BenJammin]

I think the gist of it is that frequencies resonate differently through different woods, thus giving tonal differences. Tbqh, it's a minor factor, imo, when stacked up with electronics and strings and playing technique, but if you want solid evidence, I'd say you don't need to look any further than acoustic guitars to see the effect of tone woods.

[Mr. Pickle]

I've always been told the rule of thumb for acoustics is

dark wood = darker sound

bright wood = brighter sound

[edgebass5]

You will not get an answer backed up with empirical evidence. What you will get is people's opinions on how they THINK the types of wood used in the construction of a bass affect its tonality. Moreover they will give you that opinion weighed against their own personal biases towards specific woods, basses, perception, etc. etc. etc.

Ultimately you're not going to get an answer that has any substance...

[Akira]

Acoustics are different, I would think. The sound resonates in the body. In a solid-body instrument, the strings vibrate and disrupt a magnetic field. I don't understand how the wood comes into play, except to maybe increase sustain.

[AcerbicCunnt77]

I, too, think that wood has NO effect on the tone of a bass played through an amp

acoustic guitars are completely different

[Jody LeCompte]

Look at Schecters.

The custom, elite, and studio ALL sound exactly the same.

[irishslappop]

as far as im concerned, the more DENSE the wood is, the more "tone" will carry through. So i guess the denser the wood, the more bright and punchy it will be.

[BenJammin]

Look at Schecters.

The custom, elite, and studio ALL sound exactly the same.

Because one brand is capable of representing all basses, right? ;)

I'm not taking the side of the extremists who swear they can hear every last nuance in their sound, down to the bridge and the nut material, but I do believe that wood is a contributing factor to sound.

I honestly think if you take two basses that are identically specced except for the body wood, you will find a difference in tone. This would be more apparent with supposed 'bright' woods versus 'dark' ones and would likely be impossible to distinguish within the mix, but to the naked ear, I believe there would be a difference.

[Akira]

Not unlikely, but I bet it would be negligible, and I question how well someone could identify which was which. I want someone to just make recordings and back that idea up.

[BenJammin]

Not unlikely, but I bet it would be negligible, and I question how well someone could identify which was which. I want someone to just make recordings and back that idea up.

I don't think you could successfully identify which was which, but you could tell they were distinct entities.

[funkyhoney]

See: Subjectivity.

IMO it makes little difference, just like the people who think changing a tuner makes difference. I have a replacement tuner on my musicians D string and guess what? It sounds exactly the same as the other strings.

Didn't see that one coming did you ****er?

[Mr. Pickle]

I've never heard of anyone replacing a tuner to change their tone..

[funkyhoney]

I've never heard of anyone replacing a tuner to change their tone..

Tuners*

Just like people who replace a bridge and get more sustain :rolleyes:

[BenJammin]

Tuners*

Just like people who replace a bridge and get more sustain :rolleyes:

ohhhhh mah gawd.

Are you, like, trying to tell me that that Badass II bridge doesn't do anything? :confused:

[Akira]

Well I think that bridge construction could logically have an effect on sustain, the problem is that most basses these days have good stock bridges.

It does give me a good laugh thinking about all the losers who have wasted money on BAIIs though.

[funkyhoney]

ohhhhh mah gawd.

Are you, like, trying to tell me that that Badass II bridge doesn't do anything? :confused:

Not it all, it increases your badass-factor* by 10-fold.











*consumer whore

[funkyhoney]

Well I think that bridge construction could logically have an effect on sustain, the problem is that most basses these days have good stock bridges.

It does give me a good laugh thinking about all the losers who have wasted money on BAIIs though.

Sure, lots of things could have positive effects, but it's easier and more profitable to create something that doesn't create an effect but gives the perception of creating an effect so you'll buy it.

[Mr. Pickle]

Tuners*

Just like people who replace a bridge and get more sustain :rolleyes:

tuners... whatever.


you're saying a bridge affecting sustain isn't feasible?

[Mr. Pickle]

It does give me a good laugh thinking about all the losers who have wasted money on BAIIs though.


yeah, lol! My saddles staying in place now is so dumb. I'm such a sucker!



...not to mention it looks better.

[funkyhoney]

tuners... whatever.


you're saying a bridge affecting sustain isn't feasible?

Sure it's feasible, but would you really sit there and play the same bass with a different bridge and be able to notice a difference from when you had the stock on it?

[Mr. Pickle]

Sure it's feasible, but would you really sit there and play the same bass with a different bridge and be able to notice a difference from when you had the stock on it?

95% of the scenarios, no, but that wasn't really the point.



I wish I still had my old J Reynolds. That probably would have been one of the cases where it would have actually made a difference.

[funkyhoney]

It's feasible, yes. But that's not the point really, the point is whether it would actually make a difference or you would simply perceive a difference.

[Stuff]

dense/hard wood=vibrations vibrate easier throughout which could bring up a brighter tone.
there is a difference between maple and redwood is there not? basswood and ash? there are differences however small they may be, but I think they are mostly for aesthetics.

[Az_Holl]

Well I think that bridge construction could logically have an effect on sustain, the problem is that most basses these days have good stock bridges.

It does give me a good laugh thinking about all the losers who have wasted money on BAIIs though.

Its nearly as funny as all those losers who wated there money on 7 string basses :p

[EADGC]

Unless the majority of people (not just bassists) can pass the pepsi challenge on audio clips of different woods, bridges, etc, chalk it up to placebo effect.

/opinion

[Az_Holl]

Unless the majority of people (not just bassists) can pass the pepsi challenge on audio clips of different woods, bridges, etc, chalk it up to placebo effect.

/opinion
They did a blind test on Talkbass with the exact same bass, settings, but one with a rosewood fretboard and one with a maple. The majority of people guessed which was whihc.

I couldnt tell a difference though :p

[EADGC]

That's a forum comprised entirely of bassists though.

[HELLonWHEELS]

The way i see it the wood effects the tone minorally, but affects the bass in other ways(i.e weight, density, how easy it is to paint, dents...)

[Sablate McNuff]

Wood plays a role, no doubt about it, but I believe that it is more the density of the wood, as discussed before, that plays the biggest role. Denser wood should be inherently more resonant and thus attribute to longer sustain.

And as far as affecting tone beyond that, I couldn't tell you. It's possible that the magnetic fields of pickups are also affected by certain woods and densities, in which case tonal difference would definitely be a possibility, but I don't know that there is anything to support that either, it's just theory.

[lemoley]

you have to look at this from a molecular level...

all woods have different attributes, Mahoghany is a medium hardness and heavy wood whereas Balsa is very soft, weak and light but why?

well you see its all down to how the woods are formed, if you got a microscope that could zoom in far enough then you would see that (like most natural products) there are 'plates' connecting the wood together - no i dont mean atoms, were not that far in

anyways depending on how close these plates are to each other gives them different tonal characters

e.g Ash - these plates are very close together and not only make it very hard and durable but gives it a very bright and trebly tone

Basswood - as you can guess from the name the plates of this wood are quite sparse making it a very soft wood (basswood guitars are easy to dent) and have a very bassy, muddy tone

hope i have explained myself well enough

[lemoley]

Look at Schecters.

The custom, elite, and studio ALL sound exactly the same.

because there all made out of the same wood, they just have different caps

[Son of Magni]

I've always been told the rule of thumb for acoustics is

dark wood = darker sound

bright wood = brighter sound

Ok, what if you play a bass with bright wood in the dark?

[Mr. Pickle]

Ok, what if you play a bass with bright wood in the dark?

Then you're an asshole.

<_<

[BenJammin]

That's a forum comprised entirely of bassists though.

I'm not really sure I see the relevance of this. Bassists are the only ones who care about this anyway. You're saying that it's only bass players who can tell the difference, right, and that beyond them no one else can tell?

That's not placebo. It's just something specific to the demographic. When I play and I'm slightly out of tune, I can hear it very clearly, but my non-musician friend can't tell at all. Is it a placebo? No, of course it isn't.

So I don't think you can dismiss the tonal differences of wood as a placebo effect. Can the rest of the world tell the difference? Probably not. Does that mean we can't hear it? Absolutely not. Ultimately, yeah, I'd say it doesn't really matter, because the effect of it stops once you stop playing by yourself and add other instruments, etc., etc., but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's there in the first place.

[Sammy_L_D]

I've always been told the rule of thumb for acoustics is

dark wood = darker sound

bright wood = brighter sound

LOL

Whoever told you this, slap them in the face.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Not all woods that have higher density are "bright coloured".

In fact, if I were to generalize, there are more "darker" coloured woods with higher densities than "brighter" colored woods.

[Mr. Pickle]

Dude, don't shoot the messenger....

I heard it from a guy at Schmitt Music.

[Sablate McNuff]

That name sounds about as trustworthy as "Honest Bill's Dealership."

[edgebass5]

They did a blind test on Talkbass with the exact same bass, settings, but one with a rosewood fretboard and one with a maple. The majority of people guessed which was whihc.

There have been a LOT of those soundclip challenges on talkbass over the years and most of the time, the majority of people incorrectly guess which is which based on the criteria given.

Basswood - as you can guess from the name the plates of this wood are quite sparse making it a very soft wood (basswood guitars are easy to dent) and have a very bassy, muddy tone

Basswood isn't pronounced like bass guitar, its pronounced like the fish... This is a pretty minor point given what you're talking about, but don't associate the name of basswood with its supposed tonal qualities.

You will not get an answer backed up with empirical evidence. What you will get is people's opinions on how they THINK the types of wood used in the construction of a bass affect its tonality. Moreover they will give you that opinion weighed against their own personal biases towards specific woods, basses, perception, etc. etc. etc.

Ultimately you're not going to get an answer that has any substance...

I just felt like quoting myself from earlier in the thread as my prediction has really panned out nicely :p

[Sablate McNuff]

Haha. Yeah. I almost quoted you in the end of my post too.

Fact of the matter is, like you said Chris, there is no actual, undeniable evidence to support any claims made.

[rh15951]

If wood makes no difference whatsoever as it seems some people are suggesting, why doesn't everyone just make their guitars from plywood?

[EADGC]

I'm not really sure I see the relevance of this. Bassists are the only ones who care about this anyway. You're saying that it's only bass players who can tell the difference, right, and that beyond them no one else can tell?

That's not placebo. It's just something specific to the demographic. When I play and I'm slightly out of tune, I can hear it very clearly, but my non-musician friend can't tell at all. Is it a placebo? No, of course it isn't.

So I don't think you can dismiss the tonal differences of wood as a placebo effect. Can the rest of the world tell the difference? Probably not. Does that mean we can't hear it? Absolutely not. Ultimately, yeah, I'd say it doesn't really matter, because the effect of it stops once you stop playing by yourself and add other instruments, etc., etc., but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's there in the first place.

The relevance is that even IF it's not placebo effect, very few people can tell the difference anyway.

Even if a TB survey shows that the majority of members can tell the difference, all that tells me is that bassists can tell. Start a poll entirely of musicians, or even one of all music buffs, and see how that pans out.

[EADGC]

If wood makes no difference whatsoever as it seems some people are suggesting, why doesn't everyone just make their guitars from plywood?


Because people associate cheap woods with bad tone and a poorly constructed instrument.

[rh15951]

Because people associate cheap woods with bad tone and a poorly constructed instrument.

Or maybe because different woods sound different? :lol:

[Sablate McNuff]

Or maybe because different woods sound different? :lol:

**smack**

I would relate the non-use of plywood to quality of construction more than for tonal purposes.

All of this talk makes me want to build a whamola.

[rh15951]

**smack**

I would relate the non-use of plywood to quality of construction more than for tonal purposes.

All of this talk makes me want to build a whamola.

I think plywood is as strong as (if not stronger then) any other wood tbh.

What type of wood is your custom built from? The cheapest one possible I expect, seeing as it all sounds the same anyway ;)

[Sablate McNuff]

I think plywood is as strong as (if not stronger then) any other wood tbh.

What type of wood is your custom built from? The cheapest one possible I expect, seeing as it all sounds the same anyway ;)

No. I went with the lightweight option and chose particle board for the body and a nice balsa wood neck.

Actually, the body is ash (cheap, durable wood) and the neck is maple with ebony laminates for stability. The top wood is quilted maple and the fingerboard is birdseye maple - all for aesthetics.

[trumpeter]

If you have expensive wood it'll give you more talent.

[BenJammin]

If you have expensive wood it'll give you more talent.

That is utterly false. :upset:

[EADGC]

Or maybe because different woods sound different? :lol:

That's debatable, which is why this thread exists in the first place. :lol:

[Sablate McNuff]

That is utterly false. :upset:

Only in your case, Benny.

[jordan-z]

That is utterly false. :upset:

Really?

[BenJammin]

Really?

Really.

[:amaze:]

It does give me a good laugh thinking about all the losers who have wasted money on BAIIs though.

i sure hope you aren't saying that anyone who's bought a BAII bridge is a loser.





:amaze:

[BenJammin]

Anyone who bought a BAII because they think it adds sustain to their bass is a loser.

If you bought it for aesthetic reasons, or stability ones, that's different.

[Mr. Pickle]

That name sounds about as trustworthy as "Honest Bill's Dealership."

What, Schmitt Music? Aren't they a large chain?


I'm not saying that makes them any more credible, or anything, but just wondering.... I never go there anymore, anyways. They are WAY overpriced.

[Akira]

i sure hope you aren't saying that anyone who's bought a BAII bridge is a loser.





:amaze:

Unless your bridge broke, then probably.

[rh15951]

ITT the bass forum completely U-turns on the BAII bridge :rolleyes:

[Sammy_L_D]

Didn't this forum used to worship the BAII bridge?

I've sold it to many people who have gotten back to me with results, and although they never bought it for the rumoured sustain/tonal change, they said they noticed improvements in these categories.

It does make a difference, if the bridge you have is of poor quality.

[rh15951]

Yeah everyone used to say the BAII was a godsend and the best and most useful mod ever. But now everyone is an expert and it's useless coz it doesn't do anything LOLZ

[Naminator]

This is retarded....

[rh15951]

This is retarded....

Then **** off :chug:

[edgebass5]

Yeah everyone used to say the BAII was a godsend and the best and most useful mod ever. But now everyone is an expert and it's useless coz it doesn't do anything LOLZ

I'll admit to being one of the people that used to tout the merits of the BAII... After having substantial real-world experience with one, specifically experience in replacing a stock Mexican Fender bridge with one... Well... I'll stick to the rationale that if your current bridge holds intonation and provides sufficient adjustments for string action at the bridge you won't notice any REAL difference when adding a BAII.

[rh15951]

I'll admit to being one of the people that used to tout the merits of the BAII... After having substantial real-world experience with one, specifically experience in replacing a stock Mexican Fender bridge with one... Well... I'll stick to the rationale that if your current bridge holds intonation and provides sufficient adjustments for string action at the bridge you won't notice any REAL difference when adding a BAII.

I agree with you here. I replaced the bridge because the saddles didn't stay in place :lol:

[Jimbobntnr]

From now on, when a new guy asks if it's worth it to upgrade the electronics on his squire, I expect a resounding yes, but tell him not to worry about the bridge - his wood and bridge are at or above par with those found on professional basses, like Ben's stammy.

[rh15951]

That name sounds about as trustworthy as "Honest Bill's Dealership."

Or "JC Basses"?

[:amaze:]

Unless your bridge broke, then probably.

right ... because unless it's broken, all bridges work exactly the same and none are better than any other.


:rolleyes:




:amaze:

[BenJammin]

right ... because unless it's broken, all bridges work exactly the same and none are better than any other.


:rolleyes:




:amaze:

Well. If your bridge holds intonation and is firmly on the bass, what else do you want for? What would make one bridge better than another?

Aesthetics are entirely subjective, so it's not that.

What then is the qualifier for one bridge being better than another?

[:amaze:]

Well. If your bridge holds intonation and is firmly on the bass, what else do you want for? What would make one bridge better than another?

Aesthetics are entirely subjective, so it's not that.

What then is the qualifier for one bridge being better than another?

-one that holds MORE firmly and is more solid.

-one that will allow a better set-up (action-wise)

-strings not staying in saddles

-saddles moving

-aesthetics (subjective, but i dont care)

none of those would qualify a bridge being "broken" -- but certainly they are characteristics that would make one bridge better than another.




:amaze:

[Stuff]

a better bridge will hold sustain better, it just depends on how bad your previous one was. the better the connection from your body to the bridge will make a good difference. string-thru bridges are the best for increasing sustain though if thats what you are going for.

better parts will always help, however small the difference is.

[EADGC]

a better bridge will hold sustain better, it just depends on how bad your previous one was. the better the connection from your body to the bridge will make a good difference. string-thru bridges are the best for increasing sustain though if thats what you are going for.

better parts will always help, however small the difference is.

That's still debatable and to my knowledge, none of those claims have been proven by physics

[EADGC]

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555356

[:amaze:]

That's still debatable and to my knowledge, none of those claims have been proven by physics

thats fine for you to think that way, but i can tell you from my experience replacing the bridge on my bass, it does make a difference :thumb:





:amaze:

[EADGC]

thats fine for you to think that way, but i can tell you from my experience replacing the bridge on my bass, it does make a difference :thumb:





:amaze:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect


:_?

[BenJammin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect


:_?

123.

[muthafunkabass]

string-thru bridges are the best for increasing sustain though if thats what you are going for.
Really? Can you explain to me why you are saying this? What are the facts and physics behind this? How did you come to this conclusion?

[:amaze:]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect


:_?

if the playability and sustain of my bass were increased only because i told it the new bridge was supposed to do that ... it must have listened :thumb:





:amaze:

[josh3184]

Really? Can you explain to me why you are saying this? What are the facts and physics behind this? How did you come to this conclusion?


I'd imagine its because of the increase in angle of the saddes giving the impression of higher tension.

I agree that its bollocks, but if I had no real knowledge of the workings of a bass and i saw a string through body I'd guess that the strings were held in tighter.

Its still bollocks like i say tho

[muthafunkabass]

I'd imagine its because of the increase in angle of the saddes giving the impression of higher tension.
That's what I was going to get at with him. That the extra-stiffness of the string towards the bridge because it is moving less was only giving an impression.

[BenJammin]

What evidence is there to support that a new, 'better' bridge = more sustain? When you put it on, you would have already had some idea that the better bridge is supposed to give you more sustain, thus when you first play it, you're expecting that extra sustain and so you think you hear it, when it may or may not even be there at all.

I know first-hand the power of the placebo. One night, a couple of years ago, I was at a party, extremely drunk, and I burned my hand on the metal that surrounds a fire pit. I was in a fair bit of pain, and my friend's dad came up to me and looked at the burn and said "You know, I've got an old Newfie cure for this" and he went and got out a tube of toothpaste. He smeared the toothpaste on the burn, and well, damn if it didn't stop hurting. Placebo. Toothpaste doesn't actually cure burns, or alleviate the discomfort. I was in a particular environment with a preconceived notion of the effect something would have and when the application of said item was enacted, the placebo worked because I expected nothing otherwise.

I really think the better bridge = more sustain is the same thing as toothpaste = burn relief.

/true story
//was very drunk

[Spaceman Spiff]

Or you were just really drunk and couldn't feel the burn in the first place. By the time you had toothpaste on your hand, you had already forgotten it was burned.

[BenJammin]

Or you were just really drunk and couldn't feel the burn in the first place. By the time you had toothpaste on your hand, you had already forgotten it was burned.

No, I definitely felt the burn. That was the whole reason that her dad came over with the toothpaste, because I was complaining about it.

[Az_Holl]

No, I definitely felt the burn. That was the whole reason that her dad came over with the toothpaste, because I was complaining about it.
Well i put out a sparkler with my hands on new years and went around complaining to everyone how much it hurt, even when i couldnt feel it anymore.

Besides the fact that we're using drunk stories to try and disprove science :p

I did THINK that i perceived a difference when i put my BAII on, not in sustain, but it sounded more 'focused', esspecially with distortion. But im putting that down too the strongs being tighter... ans i would have thought that increasing string tension would have lessened sustain... but oh well.

[EADGC]

What evidence is there to support that a new, 'better' bridge = more sustain? When you put it on, you would have already had some idea that the better bridge is supposed to give you more sustain, thus when you first play it, you're expecting that extra sustain and so you think you hear it, when it may or may not even be there at all.


123456789

[:amaze:]

Vibrations are damped when they have to jump from one object to another, but the larger the contact between the two objects, the lower the loss. Thus, if a bridge is larger, and more solidly attached to the bass, there will be more sustain.

i don't really care if you want to keep telling me that i'm retarded and imagining things when i say the sustain and playability are better with my new bridge compared to my old one. the fact is, it did make an improvement. end of story.




:amaze:

[EADGC]

It's not fact that it made an improvement


it's fact that you think it made an improvement

[:amaze:]

no it isn't. i'll go ahead and say that the issue of sustain was negligible to shut you up about that. but the action and feel of the strings were DEFINITELY altered by changing the bridge.





:amaze:

[EADGC]

no it isn't. i'll go ahead and say that the issue of sustain was negligible to shut you up about that. but the action and feel of the strings were DEFINITELY altered by changing the bridge.





:amaze:

How is the action altered by changing the bridge

your old bridge must have been defective or broken :-/

I don't see how changing a bridge can magically give you different action since bridges are designed to be fully adjustable

[BenJammin]

Vibrations are damped when they have to jump from one object to another, but the larger the contact between the two objects, the lower the loss. Thus, if a bridge is larger, and more solidly attached to the bass, there will be more sustain.

i don't really care if you want to keep telling me that i'm retarded and imagining things when i say the sustain and playability are better with my new bridge compared to my old one. the fact is, it did make an improvement. end of story.




:amaze:

Okay, assuming everything you said is true (even with your neener-neener-I'm-right-you're-wrong attitude), what the hell do you need so much sustain for? What makes the sustain of your standard bridge so unacceptable that you need to swap it out for a 'high mass' bridge.

[EADGC]

Also a very good question

although I suppose it's good to have just incase you do need it, I never find myself wishing for more sustain or hunting for a heavier bridge to increase it

[:amaze:]

How is the action altered by changing the bridge

your old bridge must have been defective or broken :-/

I don't see how changing a bridge can magically give you different action since bridges are designed to be fully adjustable

it wasn't defective in the sense that it didn't function as a bridge. it wasnt broken either. bridges can only be lowered so far, and my new bridge can be lowered farther. its a fact.

Okay, assuming everything you said is true (even with your neener-neener-I'm-right-you're-wrong attitude), what the hell do you need so much sustain for? What makes the sustain of your standard bridge so unacceptable that you need to swap it out for a 'high mass' bridge.

first, the only reason i'm giving you attitude is because i told you my experience changing my bridge, and you were the one to say that it was just in my mind that these adjustments happened.

look, i've been playing bass for some 8 years or so, and i can tell when i play something different than i'm used to. when i changed my bridge, it was different. i'm not crazy, i'm not imagining things. you need to just accept that, FOR ME, swapping out my bridge made an improvement.

and like i said, it wasnt only the sustain. the bridge is just overall more solid and this alters the way the strings feel when plucking next to the bridge. FOR ME, it was an improvement.




:amaze:

[EADGC]

it wasn't defective in the sense that it didn't function as a bridge. it wasnt broken either. bridges can only be lowered so far, and my new bridge can be lowered farther. its a fact.


If you had your bridge totally bottomed out and you weren't getting fretbuzz, I'd say you were just due for a truss rod tightening.




look, i've been playing bass for some 8 years or so, and i can tell when i play something different than i'm used to. when i changed my bridge, it was different. i'm not crazy, i'm not imagining things. you need to just accept that, FOR ME, swapping out my bridge made an improvement.

and like i said, it wasnt only the sustain. the bridge is just overall more solid and this alters the way the strings feel when plucking next to the bridge. FOR ME, it was an improvement.



:amaze:

Then again, the nature of a placebo is that you don't know when it's working.



:amaze:

[:amaze:]

If you had your bridge totally bottomed out and you weren't getting fretbuzz, I'd say you were just due for a truss rod tightening.




Then again, the nature of a placebo is that you don't know when it's working.



:amaze:

i really don't get why you just can't believe me when i state that different bridges can affect the way a bass plays.

you have yet to respond to when i mentioned that the strings feel different closer to the bridge with a more sturdy bridge.




:amaze:

[BenJammin]

i really don't get why you just can't believe me when i state that different bridges can affect the way a bass plays.

you have yet to respond to when i mentioned that the strings feel different closer to the bridge with a more sturdy bridge.




:amaze:

Well, yeah. Different bridges feel different.

But that's not what we're getting at.

Feel =/= sustain.

[:amaze:]

Well, yeah. Different bridges feel different.

But that's not what we're getting at.

Feel =/= sustain.

no, the whole issue was you guys telling me it was a waste of money replacing my bridge, implying that there was no difference between bridges. my rebuttal was that there was a difference, and you guys kept telling me it was a placebo.





:amaze:

[EADGC]

i really don't get why you just can't believe me when i state that different bridges can affect the way a bass plays.

you have yet to respond to when i mentioned that the strings feel different closer to the bridge with a more sturdy bridge.




:amaze:

I don't believe that the strings feel different. There

[:amaze:]

in this picture, you will see the saddles are hardly secured to the bridge, and can move left/right with too much force on the strings:
http://melodymusiconline.com/images/JP800Bridge.jpg
in this picture, you will see the the saddles are much more solidly mounted onto the bridge, and will not move, thus feeling different:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/d/df/250px-BadassBridge1.jpg




:amaze:

[Sammy_L_D]

I'd like to point out how hilarious it is that you are arguing against the results he has experienced with his bass, which you have not heard or seen, or had any experience with.

[BenJammin]

no, the whole issue was you guys telling me it was a waste of money replacing my bridge, implying that there was no difference between bridges. my rebuttal was that there was a difference, and you guys kept telling me it was a placebo.





:amaze:

Yes, the entire argument, at least mine, is that replacing a bridge for any reasons other than stability or aesthetics is a waste of money. I acknowledge there is a difference in the feel between difference bridges.

The placebo we're talking about is in regard to the 'sustain factor' of the BAII compared to the standard Fender bridge, or just in bridges in general.

[:amaze:]

Yes, the entire argument, at least mine, is that replacing a bridge for any reasons other than stability or aesthetics is a waste of money. I acknowledge there is a difference in the feel between difference bridges.

The placebo we're talking about is in regard to the 'sustain factor' of the BAII compared to the standard Fender bridge, or just in bridges in general.

i didn't buy the bridge for more sustain ... i have a pedal for that. i guess we were just misunderstanding the opposition.

internet debates ftw.




:amaze:

[EADGC]

How the hell would your saddles move with the (collective) hundreds of pounds of tension from the strings holding them in place?

[:amaze:]

did you look at the pictures?




:amaze:

[EADGC]

did you look at the pictures?




:amaze:

Yes

and I understand how the saddles would move easier in picture A when the bass isn't strung up or if the string are at slack

but when it's strung up and tuned, the tension would be holding the saddles in place. That was my point

[BenJammin]

I'd like to point out how hilarious it is that you are arguing against the results he has experienced with his bass, which you have not heard or seen, or had any experience with.

Gosh, discussion sure is ridiculous. Let's just take everything at face value and assume that everything said by everyone is universal truth instead of discussing and arguing and debating about things.

I have played basses with the standard Fender bridge and basses with the BAII bridge. I noticed no difference in the tone or sustain because of any extra mass.

Was the bridge I played a lemon?

Is Luke's bridge some sort of miracle bridge?

Is it possible for you to even acknowledge that there may not be any sustain difference at all and that it is in fact all just perceived through a placebo effect?

If I had concrete, universal evidence that it made a difference, I would retract and change my position in a second. Since I don't, and I find it very much unlikely that there will be any presented to me, I will continue to hold my position and question people who hold opposite ones.

[EADGC]

I'd like to point out how hilarious it is that you are arguing against the results he has experienced with his bass, which you have not heard or seen, or had any experience with.

The point is that since we havn't had any experience, we can't take his word as evidence.


http://blogsap.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg

[:amaze:]

Yes

and I understand how the saddles would move easier in picture A when the bass isn't strung up or if the string are at slack

but when it's strung up and tuned, the tension would be holding the saddles in place. That was my point

i dont know what kind of strings you use, but i use x-tra super light gauge strings. combined with the fact that i have a very strong attack when i play, i really have a hard time comprehending why you cant accept that the two bridges FEEL different when i play, and i prefer the BAII.

unless you are just trolling now.




:amaze:

[Sammy_L_D]

Gosh, discussion sure is ridiculous. Let's just take everything at face value and assume that everything said by everyone is universal truth instead of discussing and arguing and debating about things.

I have played basses with the standard Fender bridge and basses with the BAII bridge. I noticed no difference in the tone or sustain because of any extra mass.

Was the bridge I played a lemon?

Is Luke's bridge some sort of miracle bridge?

Is it possible for you to even acknowledge that there may not be any sustain difference at all and that it is in fact all just perceived through a placebo effect?

If I had concrete, universal evidence that it made a difference, I would retract and change my position in a second. Since I don't, and I find it very much unlikely that there will be any presented to me, I will continue to hold my position and question people who hold opposite ones.

Perhaps you and EADGC should reread a number of the posts you've both made in this thread and you will see why I will make such a statement.

You aren't having constructive discussion. You are trying to disprove the effect that he had experienced with his instrument despite having no merits to back that up other than what you may have seen with a couple basses. He's convinced there's an improved effect, one which he has pointed out he was never even trying to change in the first place (more of a bonus), and that's that.

Arguing against that without trying the bass when it had its stock bridge and its current bridge is flawed. Period.

Different instruments will experience different effects. Guitar/bass construction is hardly an exact science.

I will say it again: it is absolutely hilarious.

[EADGC]

i dont know what kind of strings you use, but i use x-tra super light gauge strings. combined with the fact that i have a very strong attack when i play, i really have a hard time comprehending why you cant accept that the two bridges FEEL different when i play, and i prefer the BAII.



I don't understand why they feel different because:

a) only a small part of the string contacts the bridge, and (to my knowledge) anything past the bridge does not alter string tension

b) your argument that "the saddles move less" makes absolutely no sense since the string holds the saddle in place either way

[:amaze:]

The point is that since we havn't had any experience, we can't take his word as evidence.

well, if you aren't going to believe anything you haven't personally had experience with, i'm done with this discussion.




:amaze:

[:amaze:]

I don't understand why they feel different because:

b) your argument that "the saddles move less" makes absolutely no sense since the string holds the saddle in place either way

how does it make no sense? i'm telling you, FROM MY EXPERIENCE, the bridge with more solid construction does a BETTER job holding the strings in place.




:amaze:

[EADGC]

You aren't having constructive discussion. You are trying to disprove the effect that he had experienced with his instrument despite having no merits to back that up other than what you may have seen with a couple basses. He's convinced there's an improved effect, one which he has pointed out he was never even trying to change in the first place (more of a bonus), and that's that.

Arguing against that without trying the bass when it had its stock bridge and its current bridge is flawed. Period.

Different instruments will experience different effects. Guitar/bass construction is hardly an exact science.

I will say it again: it is absolutely hilarious.

Calling b.s. on something you don't believe - what a concept.

The issue here is that Luke seems to be presenting his experience as fact, when he has no way of proving it to us besides his word.

Ben and I can't take his word if (IF) he is just experiencing placebo effect



If anyone isn't contributing anything to this discussion, it's you

[:amaze:]

by the way, ben did say:

Well, yeah. Different bridges feel different.

so ... it seems that ben and i are on the same page.




:amaze:

[EADGC]

On that particular matter :-/

[:amaze:]

that's my whole point. the bridges feel different, and i prefer the BAII.




:amaze:

[irishslappop]

omg will one of you get an avatar for christsake?

[EADGC]

Spiff took my kitty :upset:

[Sammy_L_D]

I will provide a different outlook then.

I have personally played basses that went from having stock bridges to the BAII right in shop, and the difference is clear.

The number one change across every bass I've noticed is tonally, actually. The BAII seems to bring out bright overtones a bit more compared to stock Fender bridges. Bit more "cutting power" you could say.

With this in mind, it can be potentially concluded that the bright overtones, being more prominently expressed, will give a player the illusion that greater sustain is present, as these now audible overtones will make it sound as if the note is "lasting longer".

Thus, there may not necessarily be any sustain increase (this is possible as well however based on the surface area of the saddles/bridge, but I don't even know how we'd measure this), but it certainly can be perceived as such.

On any higher end bass (ie. American Fender), I doubt the difference is present, if at all, other than tuning stability.

I should note I am speaking of Mexican basses of course.

[:amaze:]

omg will one of you get an avatar for christsake?

don't tell me you can distinguish my posts from his...


all those :amaze: for nothing :upset:




:amaze:

[:amaze:]

I will provide a different outlook then.

I have personally played basses that went from having stock bridges to the BAII right in shop, and the difference is clear.

The number one change across every bass I've noticed is tonally, actually. The BAII seems to bring out bright overtones a bit more compared to stock Fender bridges. Bit more "cutting power" you could say.

With this in mind, it can be potentially concluded that the bright overtones, being more prominently expressed, will give a player the illusion that greater sustain is present, as these now audible overtones will make it sound as if the note is "lasting longer".

Thus, there may not necessarily be any sustain increase (this is possible as well however based on the surface area of the saddles/bridge, but I don't even know how we'd measure this), but it certainly can be perceived as such.

On any higher end bass (ie. American Fender), I doubt the difference is present, if at all, other than tuning stability.

i hope that wasn't directed at EADGC ... he won't believe you, considering he hasn't had that experience personally.




:amaze:

[irishslappop]

don't tell me you can distinguish my posts from his...


all those :amaze: for nothing :upset:




:amaze:

i was actually pissed off that they looked the same, because i like yours.

[EADGC]

i hope that wasn't directed at EADGC ... he won't believe you, considering he hasn't had that experience personally.




:amaze:

Not speaking for people is cool too


I think in that case, an audio clip would suffice actually




:amaze:

[:amaze:]

i was actually pissed off that they looked the same, because i like yours.

aww thanks buddy. i'd rep you, but i must spread it like a little ho.




:amaze:

[Sammy_L_D]

Not speaking for people is cool too


I think in that case, an audio clip would suffice actually




:amaze:

If I upgrade my Mexican Jazz one day with a BAII (I can't really think of why I would unless something breaks), I'll make clips before and after the procedure.

[EADGC]

that's my whole point. the bridges feel different, and i prefer the BAII.




:amaze:

I still don't understand how that's possible :-/

[EADGC]

If I upgrade my Mexican Jazz one day with a BAII (I can't really think of why I would unless something breaks), I'll make clips before and after the procedure.


ok ty :wave:

[Sammy_L_D]

ok ty :wave:

No problem.

[:amaze:]

I still don't understand how that's possible :-/

and apparently you aren't going to, even though i have provided pictures explaining the differences.


and you are alone on this one it seems.




:amaze:

[Az_Holl]

How the hell would your saddles move with the (collective) hundreds of pounds of tension from the strings holding them in place?
My saddles used to move up and down and side to side and i used 110-50 strings...

[Az_Holl]

I don't understand why they feel different because:

a) only a small part of the string contacts the bridge, and (to my knowledge) aka edges knowledge that i assume as fact anything past the bridge does not alter string tension

b) your argument that "the saddles move less" makes absolutely no sense since the string holds the saddle in place either waysee above
Also i just thought this was funny... that your actually telling people that the BAII has no effect and that its a waste of money, basically saying that there jumping on the bandwagon and saying that they're hearing a difference that doesnt exist.

Then you come along with your statement... which is jumping onto Edges bandwagon, which you have no proof is true at all, apart from someone on the net told you was true....

anyone else smelling the hypocrisy here? >_>

[Stuff]

Really? Can you explain to me why you are saying this? What are the facts and physics behind this? How did you come to this conclusion?
this is from a couple of pages back but yes I can. when you have a body made out of several pieces of wood it won't necessarily be the same as a one piece body. the reasons are the same for every surfaces that touch.

physical things have physical differences. sound is definably physical.

[edgebass5]

Then you come along with your statement... which is jumping onto Edges bandwagon, which you have no proof is true at all, apart from someone on the net told you was true....

Well... That bit is actually a fact, not just my opinion. There's a simple formula for calculating string tension, and its based solely on the speaking length of the string. Anything beyond that is IRRELEVANT to string tension. Other perceptions based on what happens beyond the speaking length of a string are debatable, and more often than not, questionable at best.

The formula for calculating string tension is:
T = (UW x (2 x L x F)^2)/386.4
Where:
UW = Unit weight (expressed in pounds per linear inch)
L = Scale length (measured in inches from the nut to the bridge saddle)
F = Desired tuning/frequency/pitch

This will yield the tension in foot-pounds. To convert that to newtons multiply the result by 4.45

:thumb:

[:amaze:]

Well... That bit is actually a fact, not just my opinion. There's a simple formula for calculating string tension, and its based solely on the speaking length of the string. Anything beyond that is IRRELEVANT to string tension. Other perceptions based on what happens beyond the speaking length of a string are debatable, and more often than not, questionable at best.

The formula for calculating string tension is:
T = (UW x (2 x L x F)^2)/386.4
Where:
UW = Unit weight (expressed in pounds per linear inch)
L = Scale length (measured in inches from the nut to the bridge saddle)
F = Desired tuning/frequency/pitch

This will yield the tension in foot-pounds. To convert that to newtons multiply the result by 4.45

:thumb:

but if the bridge saddle isn't as solid as another, it could give the effect of a varied length at times...maybe that's not right, but one end of the string wouldn't be *perfectly* fixed.




:amaze:

[Sablate McNuff]

Well... That bit is actually a fact, not just my opinion. There's a simple formula for calculating string tension, and its based solely on the speaking length of the string. Anything beyond that is IRRELEVANT to string tension. Other perceptions based on what happens beyond the speaking length of a string are debatable, and more often than not, questionable at best.

The formula for calculating string tension is:
T = (UW x (2 x L x F)^2)/386.4
Where:
UW = Unit weight (expressed in pounds per linear inch)
L = Scale length (measured in inches from the nut to the bridge saddle)
F = Desired tuning/frequency/pitch

This will yield the tension in foot-pounds. To convert that to newtons multiply the result by 4.45

:thumb:

Yay physics. :D

I wish string companies would make their strings' unit weights more readily available. I wanted to come up with the perfect guages based solely on tension, but was unable to do so because I was missing that little important bit of information.

[Az_Holl]

Well... That bit is actually a fact, not just my opinion. There's a simple formula for calculating string tension, and its based solely on the speaking length of the string. Anything beyond that is IRRELEVANT to string tension. Other perceptions based on what happens beyond the speaking length of a string are debatable, and more often than not, questionable at best.

The formula for calculating string tension is:
T = (UW x (2 x L x F)^2)/386.4
Where:
UW = Unit weight (expressed in pounds per linear inch)
L = Scale length (measured in inches from the nut to the bridge saddle)
F = Desired tuning/frequency/pitch

This will yield the tension in foot-pounds. To convert that to newtons multiply the result by 4.45

:thumb:
I wasnt disagreeing with you: I really have no clue about the whole physics thing.

Just making a point.

[muthafunkabass]

this is from a couple of pages back but yes I can. when you have a body made out of several pieces of wood it won't necessarily be the same as a one piece body. the reasons are the same for every surfaces that touch.

physical things have physical differences. sound is definably physical.
What does that have to do with anything? The strings (or even the string nuts) don't touch any wood at all. The ferrules are metal.

[:amaze:]

What does that have to do with anything? The strings (or even the string nuts) don't touch any wood at all. The ferrules are metal.

i think his point is that the vibrations carry through the wood as well




:amaze:

[EADGC]

and apparently you aren't going to, even though i have provided pictures explaining the differences.


and you are alone on this one it seems.




:amaze:

I realize the difference between the two bridges, and it still makes no sense.

Since you've neglected to so far, please explain how the saddles can move left to right when the tension of the string is holding the saddles in place anyway

[EADGC]

Also i just thought this was funny... that your actually telling people that the BAII has no effect and that its a waste of money, basically saying that there jumping on the bandwagon and saying that they're hearing a difference that doesnt exist.

Then you come along with your statement... which is jumping onto Edges bandwagon, which you have no proof is true at all, apart from someone on the net told you was true....


Incorrect - No I'm not. I totally understand upgrading for stability or aesthetics purposes, and I acknowledge that there could be a change in tone or feel.

Incorrect - I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying I'm skeptical about it since they have no way of proving it other than their word, and I can't take that as evidence at face value.

Incorrect - I'm going by my own logic here, actually, gathered from a variety of sources throughout my life, not just from Edge (although his advice has been a PART of it)




:amaze:

[rh15951]

My saddles used to move up and down and side to side and i used 110-50 strings...

This, but 105-45's. But I'm a loser for not wanting that to happen :lol:

[EADGC]

Not putting words in my mouth is cool too

[Left Shoe]

this argument is retarded, on that note, i side with luke

[EADGC]

It would be fine if anyone here could have a civilized discussion without resorting to cheap shots and mockery, but apparently that's not the case

[irishslappop]

you know what would really be great? if we all shut the **** up right now, and went to sleep.

[Spaceman Spiff]

you know what would really be great? if we all shut the **** up right now, and went to sleep.

How about you start? You certainly aren't adding anything useful.

[EADGC]

you know what would really be great? if we all shut the **** up right now, and went to sleep.

it's 1:30 in the afternoon here :-/


and I gee with spiff

[edgebass5]

but if the bridge saddle isn't as solid as another, it could give the effect of a varied length at times...maybe that's not right, but one end of the string wouldn't be *perfectly* fixed.

I'm not going to get into the "as solid as another" argument, as I believe its largely moot. Instead, let's look at this from the basis of a functioning bridge versus a non-functioning bridge.

A non-functioning bridge (i.e. one that will not hold its intonation) could certainly have changes in its scale length by way of bridge saddle movement. That said, when tuning to the desired pitch, the resultant string tension could be different given the altered scale length.

A functioning bridge would not have this problem, and the resultant string tension would be static.

My argument in this whole thing is that a replacement bridge will definitely be an improvement over a non-functioning bridge. It is also my opinion that a replacement bridge will not offer any real-world improvement over a functioning bridge, save for aesthetic value and the supposed bragging rights to say "What is that a standard aluminum bent plate bridge? That's cool and all, but MY bass has a high mass, stainless steel-titanium alloy Leonard Quanza Bad Arse Mofo Bridgezilla XXXVII."

Yay physics. :D

I wish string companies would make their strings' unit weights more readily available. I wanted to come up with the perfect guages based solely on tension, but was unable to do so because I was missing that little important bit of information.

Yay physics indeed! D'Addario has a list of all their strings, with unit weights on their website.

[Sablate McNuff]

I'm not going to get into the "as solid as another" argument, as I believe its largely moot. Instead, let's look at this from the basis of a functioning bridge versus a non-functioning bridge.

A non-functioning bridge (i.e. one that will not hold its intonation) could certainly have changes in its scale length by way of bridge saddle movement. That said, when tuning to the desired pitch, the resultant string tension could be different given the altered scale length.

A functioning bridge would not have this problem, and the resultant string tension would be static.

My argument in this whole thing is that a replacement bridge will definitely be an improvement over a non-functioning bridge. It is also my opinion that a replacement bridge will not offer any real-world improvement over a functioning bridge, save for aesthetic value and the supposed bragging rights to say "What is that a standard aluminum bent plate bridge? That's cool and all, but MY bass has a high mass, stainless steel-titanium alloy Leonard Quanza Bad Arse Mofo Bridgezilla XXXVII."



Yay physics indeed! D'Addario has a list of all their strings, with unit weights on their website.

Yeah, I know D'Addario does, but I need more in the way of ERB strings. And unless I missed the bass strings entirely, they only had the guitar strings listed.

By the way, do you know where I can pick up a high mass, stainless steel-titanium alloy Leonard Quanza Bad Arse Mofo Bridgezilla XXXVII? I can't seem to find it on the LQ site.

[Jimbobntnr]

all working bridges are the same, mass does not effect an object's reaction to motion, inertia, vibration, or affect dampening. Physics is a gimmick used to keep you from realizing how the real world would be a much better place if we lived in a state of complete anarchy.

[BenJammin]

all working bridges are the same, mass does not effect an object's reaction to motion, inertia, vibration, or affect dampening. Physics is a gimmick used to keep you from realizing how the real world would be a much better place if we lived in a state of complete anarchy.

I missed your posting.

[:amaze:]

I realize the difference between the two bridges, and it still makes no sense.

Since you've neglected to so far, please explain how the saddles can move left to right when the tension of the string is holding the saddles in place anyway

because, like i've tried to explain before, they don't hold them in place as well as my new bridge. especially the E and G strings, where the saddles, being independent, only have other saddles on one side to prevent moving.




:amaze:

[:amaze:]

My argument in this whole thing is that a replacement bridge will definitely be an improvement over a non-functioning bridge. It is also my opinion that a replacement bridge will not offer any real-world improvement over a functioning bridge, save for aesthetic value and the supposed bragging rights to say "What is that a standard aluminum bent plate bridge? That's cool and all, but MY bass has a high mass, stainless steel-titanium alloy Leonard Quanza Bad Arse Mofo Bridgezilla XXXVII."



would you say that a replacement bridge would feel different in playing? i'm not talking about sustain issues or whatever, but the FEEL of the strings right next to the bridge being slightly different.




:amaze:

[Left Shoe]

It would be fine if anyone here could have a civilized discussion without resorting to cheap shots and mockery, but apparently that's not the case

hypocritical post, but you are one to talk. you keep re iterating the same things and missing lukes point

[EADGC]

hypocritical post, but you are one to talk. you keep re iterating the same things and missing lukes point

You'll notice I didn't exclude myself.

and I'm reiterating my points because no one appears to be listening to me or addressing what I'm saying.

[EADGC]

because, like i've tried to explain before, they don't hold them in place as well as my new bridge. especially the E and G strings, where the saddles, being independent, only have other saddles on one side to prevent moving.




:amaze:


I'm really getting sick of asking this, but why would the saddles be moving if the tension of the string is holding them anyway?

If I'm not mistaken, bass strings at a 34" scale length, standard gauge have tension anywhere between 35-55 lbs (roughly). Combined, they add up to around 175lb. More if there's more strings of course. It seems like more than enough to keep a saddle in place. Although there may be some miniscule movement of the saddles, I don't see how it could possibly be noticeable

source: D'Addario


And I know you use lights.

[BenJammin]

You'll notice I didn't exclude myself.

and I'm reiterating my points because no one appears to be listening to me or addressing what I'm saying.

Sorry, what was that?

[Jimbobntnr]

I'm really getting sick of asking this, but why would the saddles be moving if the tension of the string is holding them anyway?

I play with my fingers close to the bridge, and I had the same problem.

[EADGC]

ic.

[:amaze:]

I'm really getting sick of asking this, but why would the saddles be moving if the tension of the string is holding them anyway?

If I'm not mistaken, bass strings at a 34" scale length, standard gauge have tension anywhere between 35-55 lbs (roughly). Combined, they add up to around 175lb. More if there's more strings of course. It seems like more than enough to keep a saddle in place. Although there may be some miniscule movement of the saddles, I don't see how it could possibly be noticeable

source: D'Addario


And I know you use lights.

i don't know why you are adding the tensions of all the strings together, as you can see in exhibit A, the saddles for each string are independent:
exhibit A: http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/accessories/0055257000_xl.jpg

you say it seems like enough to keep a saddle in place. i'm telling you, from my experience, this in not always the case.

you can keep with your theory that i'm imagining things, or you can listen to me and now jim is saying he's experienced the same thing and accept that different bridges can cause a different feel while playing.




:amaze:

[edgebass5]

would you say that a replacement bridge would feel different in playing? i'm not talking about sustain issues or whatever, but the FEEL of the strings right next to the bridge being slightly different.

This is all based on a functioning bridge (bridge A) versus another functioning bridge (bridge B).

Provided bridge A was intonated to the same point as bridge B the only things that could change would be the string action and string spacing... So, yes, the feel COULD be different.

If the intonation, action and string spacing at the bridge was identical from bridge A to bridge B, I'm of the opinion that it would not feel different.

[muthafunkabass]

i think his point is that the vibrations carry through the wood as well




:amaze:
Well that would be saying that vibrations DON'T carry through the wood when not strung-thru the body, which is incorrect and loses the entire validity of his statement.

Stuff, could you perhaps explain why none of the basses I have played and owned (about 3 now with a string-thru option) have not had any added sustain when they went through the ferrules?

[Akira]

Man, I created a monster.

I prefaced what I said about BAIIs by saying that I am fine with them if they are used to replace a broken bridge. If a bridge's saddles don't stay put, then the bridge is, for all intents and purposes, broken.

My beef is with the kids who are like "I gotz monies i wanna mod my base ima put a bada$$ n new tooners n it!!!1!!one!!"

[muthafunkabass]

Man, I created a monster.

I prefaced what I said about BAIIs by saying that I am fine with them if they are used to replace a broken bridge. If a bridge's saddles don't stay put, then the bridge is, for all intents and purposes, broken.

My beef is with the kids who are like "I gotz monies i wanna mod my base ima put a bada$$ n new tooners n it!!!1!!one!!"Oh so YOU started this BS, huh Akira?

I oughtta...
http://www.engadgethd.com/images/2005/09/Fighting%20Irish%202.jpg

[BenJammin]

I already lambasted him for it.

[muthafunkabass]

<3 @ Ben.

[:amaze:]

i want some lambasting. sounds tasty.




:amaze:

[irishslappop]

How about you start? You certainly aren't adding anything useful.

:lol: how is any of this useful at all? shut up.

[Spaceman Spiff]

:lol: how is any of this useful at all? shut up.

They're have a ****ing discussion and all you can say is shut the **** up. Why even post?

[AcerbicCunnt77]

That's a forum comprised entirely of bassists though.

only a bassists pays attention to the bass tone anyways :rolleyes:

[irishslappop]

They're have a ****ing discussion and all you can say is shut the **** up. Why even post?


thanks for reminding me that your a pussy.

bye.

[BenJammin]

Well, I'd say this thread has run its course.

[Spaceman Spiff]

thanks for reminding me that your a slightly confuzzled sea lion.

bye.

:lol:

You're right, dude. Happy birthday.