Official Presidential Election Thread

[YDtoad]

of the major five, Obama, Hillary, McCain, Huckabee, and Romney.

[italic zero]

Huckabee

[1338 h4x0r]

Hickabee

[gregulus]

probably huckabee

but romney is a close second.

[YDtoad]

i dont know how anyone could prefer romney to huckabee

[Against Miik!]

A close tie between Hillary and McCain. Thats not to say I REALLY like any of the other candidates.

[McP3000]

Hillary, then Romney, then Obama, then Huckabee, then McCain

[guitrguy]

I'm no worried about huckabee, but romney is a threat.

[McP3000]

I'm no worried about huckabee, but romney is a threat.
I know

but the good thing is that he will never get a VP nomination by McCain

[guitrguy]

Idk, McCain is pretty bad too. I lol when people try to call him liberal.

[McP3000]

Idk, McCain is pretty bad too. I lol when people try to call him liberal.
McCain is definitely a lot better than Romney and Huckabee.

And i've never heard anyone say McCain is liberal :confused:

[ringworm]

hussein

edit: lol, didnt read the thread :p

Romney the least; Obama was my most fav choice

[Mr. Ron]

probably huckabee

but romney is a close second.

^^^^^

[Shell]

Romney, then Clinton

[entheogen]

mccain then clinton

mccain is easily the worst ... mccain is exactly what is wrong with this country

[Reaganista]

well it was guiliani by a huge margin

the other ones who cares
huckabee i guess

[WhoDidTheElf]

****, it said least, didn't see that part.

Anyways, Clinton, Obama, McCain, Huckabee, then Romney. Least to most.

[entheogen]

worst < mccain < clinton < romney < huckabee < obama < ron paul < best

[Khari]

Barack Obama for me. I can see a good view from almost all of them [except Romney. He's exactly the reason politics are hard to believe]. Ron Paul's quite interesting, however.

[Seafroggys]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/freepresssheesh_0.jpg

Pretty much what the election's gone down to.

[Against Miik!]

Ron Paul is a nut

[AA-12]

Hillary Clinton. Worst candidate in years.

worst to best

clinton < romney < huckabee < paul < mccain < obama

[ariathe22nd]

obama

[AA-12]

why Obama Ben?

[McP3000]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/freepresssheesh_0.jpg

Pretty much what the election's gone down to.
seafroggys delivers

Ron Paul is a nut
Did somebody have a schizophrenia attack?

[ringworm]

i think he just said ron was a nut before someone else ultimately did :p

[guitrguy]

McCain is definitely a lot better than Romney and Huckabee.

And i've never heard anyone say McCain is liberal :confused:

Its happens all the time with the other Republicans.

[gort]

If only John McCain were John McClane from Die Hard.



but no...



so I vote either Hillary or Obama. Either will suffice.

[totah]

Isn't Ron Paul that racist free trade guy?

Looks to me like he's the trendy choice. But he's not worse than any of the other ones. I have to say it's completely unfair how only Americans get to vote and yet every person in Israel and Palestine will be affected by Clinton's policies if she gets elected. Ditto for Iraq with Obama and the repubs. Some people will be so affected they'll die. I hate your country so much. By which I mean I hate your government and your institutions. The people are pretty neat, on the whole. Nobody else but an American can call something "neat" without sounding stupid.

[gort]

Isn't Ron Paul that racist free trade guy?

Looks to me like he's the trendy choice. But he's not worse than any of the other ones. I have to say it's completely unfair how only Americans get to vote and yet every person in Israel and Palestine will be affected by Clinton's policies if she gets elected. Ditto for Iraq with Obama and the repubs. Some people will be so affected they'll die. I hate your country so much. By which I mean I hate your government and your institutions. The people are pretty neat, on the whole. Nobody else but an American can call something "neat" without sounding stupid.



they're third world. They don't know how to run their own country, let alone have a say in what we do with ours.



I guess you could turn that arguement around too lol

[iliketoplaydrums10111]

Huckabee
Then Clinton

[McP3000]

Its happens all the time with the other Republicans.
Mitt Romney saying it doesnt count

he can call anyone liberal compared to him

[guitrguy]

Are you just now paying attention to politics? This has been going for years.

[Shell]

i just started paying attention to politics about 2 weeks ago

[ringworm]

sometimes i wish I'd never bothered, you're better off not knowing how absurd it is, imo

[Otherside]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/freepresssheesh_0.jpg

Pretty much what the election's gone down to.

yeah because the media paid so much attention to john edwards :rolleyes:

[ringworm]

who saw RealTime recently where a reporter showed how people that report a candidates success after a debate, dont even see the debate? weird

they have "spin rooms" where people tell them how well they performed, then pass on the great news to you :p

[cobert]

Obama.

Im surprised at all of the Huckabee love.

[Bordello]

either clinton or romney


i kind of like huckabee. i have no clue why

[cobert]

Oh wait I misread the thread. I didnt see the word least.

Well in that case I least want to see Huckabee, these results make sense now, hahahha.

Huckabee has a chill personality and plays bass and has a sick sense of humor so thats awesome, but his running mate is jesus and hes a batshit crazy social conservative.

[YDtoad]

sometimes i wish I'd never bothered, you're better off not knowing how absurd it is, imo

I agree. Apathy must be wonderful.

[McP3000]

Are you just now paying attention to politics? This has been going for years.
oh

i thought we were talking about the recent politics. Not when McCain popped up 8+ years ago.

[ringworm]

apathy is at the root of what is wrong, but…

i cant blaim anyone for NOT wanting to be involved in politics

you'll be much happier and have better blood pressure never knowing how corrupt it is :p

[TheDMV]

I always go for policy, but as I really don't like any republicans, I'll say McCain over Huckabee. Huckabee's charisma barely gives him the nod here

[Against Miik!]

John McCain is C.R.A.Z.Y. crazy. Those are the words of his GOP colleauges.

[Hedgedive]

lol zero voted with both his accounts

[Hedgedive]

****

I misread the poll

****ing least YDCHODE YOU DID THIS ON PURPOSE >:[

[Iscariot]

On the poll I voted McCain, but it's an even bid between him and Huckabee. I hate both with a fiery passion.

[AA-12]

Any reason for hating McCain?

[Iscariot]

Any reason for hating McCain?

Well TBH I don't hate most of his policies, but I hate the image he's playing to. Everyone thinks he's got some kind of supernatural perspective on the political arena because he was a Nam POW and because he occasionally steps outside the realms of conservatism. Also, I'm a filthy liberal so I could never vote for a conservative.

[Against Miik!]

Any reason for not hating McCain? I mean, have you heard the guy?

[Against Miik!]

In the most up to date count on delegates I have, Hillary has 582 and Barack has 485. As for the Republicans? Well, it's not like we ever had any hope, for any of the candidates, but for what its worth, McCain has jumped in front by a lot, with 516 delegates. In second is Mitt Romney, with 207. I expect Romney to drop out soon. He has already won every state that would have a Mormon in it, or it would seem so, and he is still far behind. I'm not going to do the math, but it would seem he would have to sweep Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana just to stay in it.

Anyways, back to the OFFICIAL frontrunners. At this point, it seems, as good a fight as Obama has put up, that our next president will be either Hillary or McCain. Regardless of who wins, this country will end up in the same place...the shitter.

We can expect, from either candidate:

More war: McCain seemingly wants war. Hillary may say she doesn't, but has done nothing to stop it (both voted yes on the Defense Department FY 2007 Authorization bill, which gave Bush every dime he wants to continue this failed foreign policy), and of course, both authorized the War in Iraq

Lack of education: Both approved the No Child Left Behind Act, which has just worked wonders thus far

A National ID Card: U gice, this thing actually is real. Major news has covered, it has been voted on in congress. Hillary voted in support of funded for the Real ID Act, McCain did not vote, but has expressed support for it

More Useless Bureaucracy: Both voted in favor of the creation of the Dept. Of Homeland Security, both are in favor of the Patriot Act, etc...

A failed monetary policy: Have either of these candidates even touch on this...at all? Of course not, a deflating dollar doesn't affect them like it affects everybody else.

O.k. I'm bored with this. These are basically the two worst candidates for president, ever. Worse than Kerry and Bush. I firmly believe that.

McCain, I mean c'mon, even his fellow senators hate him...the ones in his OWN PARTY!

"The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine," Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), also a senior member of the Appropriations panel, told the Boston Globe recently. "He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."

"John was very rough in the sandbox," said former senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), who is outspoken in his opposition to McCain's candidacy. "Everybody has a McCain story. If you work in the Senate for a while, you have a McCain story. . . . He hasn't built up a lot of goodwill."

Yeah, I want that guy, the one who can't even get along with the people who ****ing agree with him.

And Hillary, OOOOOO Hillary. This womans whole platform is based on bringing change. I don't even need to say much about her. She wants socialized health care, but is the second largest recipient of money from health insurance companies. Enough said, that should be it right there. When she talks about her 35 year history of fighting for changr, she is omitting quite a few things.

Soldiers love Ron and Barack, and lobbyists love Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, the No. 1 recipient of lobbyist cash, receiving $823,000 in 2007 from the lobbying industry, which gave about $2.7 million overall.

I'm sorry guys. I don't think anybody here is a Hillary supporter, but I know there are a few McCainers out there.

And for those brave few, you can take your Straight Talk and express it straight up your ***. Immature? Maybe. But better than ignorant.

[Iscariot]

As far as I know the number of delegates is irrelevant to the number of votes a candidate will receive.

[CarnageFairy]

This might be a toughy.





The national ID card really scares me.

[Against Miik!]

Not completely

at Iscariot

[Iscariot]

Not completely

at Iscariot

But according to the news tonight while Clinton has more delegates, Obama has won more states. Thinking logically, that would incur that Obama will receive more votes than Clinton.

[Knifeboy]

Apparently Americans like the way America has been heading for the past 8 years, because they're voting for more of the same >: /

[GreyHam]

This might be a toughy.





The national ID card really scares me.

your telling me...we ARE getting them in the UK.

I wont be getting one, however. i intend to emigrate before my passport expires (need an ID card for student loans, passports and driving licenses)

[Smokey D]

McCain's probably the most sensible Republican left in the race, if there ever was one.

[Dave de Sylvia]

A failed monetary policy: Have either of these candidates even touch on this...at all? Of course not, a deflating dollar doesn't affect them like it affects everybody else.
Since when does the President have any jurisidiction over monetary policy?

[Smokey D]

I love how baby Austrian economists decide they suddenly hate the free market when it comes to currency markets.

The value of the dollar is declining because the US imports too much stuff, not because of fractional reserve banking. If it was FRB, then every other currency in the world that used FRB (including the Euro) would also be declining in value.

Also, the dollar is not deflating. The price level is inflating.

And it's not even true that inflation is necessarily bad. A little bit of inflation (re under 5%) is perfectly acceptable.

[ashman]

An American >.>

[Milestogo05]

I'm voting Green Party

[Hababi]

McCain's probably the most sensible Republican left in the race, if there ever was one.

And he's the one Dems least want to face.

If McCain shores up the nomination this week, while the Dems fight until April, things are going to be looking quite good for him.

Plus it's so much better to not have an immigrant hater up there.

[Milestogo05]

Well TBH I don't hate most of his policies, but I hate the image he's playing to. Everyone thinks he's got some kind of supernatural perspective on the political arena because he was a Nam POW and because he occasionally steps outside the realms of conservatism. Also, I'm a filthy liberal so I could never vote for a conservative.

well you see, this is the problem with politics, you like his policies but wouldn't vote for him because hes conservative AKA republican

as opposed to the liberal democrats

[McP3000]

well you see, this is the problem with politics, you like his policies but wouldn't vote for him because hes conservative AKA republican

as opposed to the liberal democrats
yeah

iscariot is more conservative than i am and yet he won't vote for Republicans

i dont get it.

[McP3000]

I love how baby Austrian economists decide they suddenly hate the free market when it comes to currency markets.

The value of the dollar is declining because the US imports too much stuff, not because of fractional reserve banking. If it was FRB, then every other currency in the world that used FRB (including the Euro) would also be declining in value.

Also, the dollar is not deflating. The price level is inflating.

And it's not even true that inflation is necessarily bad. A little bit of inflation (re under 5%) is perfectly acceptable.
its just proof that people don't know what they are talking about

[ringworm]

Apparently Americans like the way America has been heading for the past 8 years, because they're voting for more of the same >: /
I would like to disagree, just a year or 2 ago, it seemed we were asking for real, quick, effective change, I dont know where it got lost and abandoned

but yeah, we (the people who dont really understand anything other than hour long debates and useless rhetoric) tend to keep doing the same, the rest of us simply give up caring.

when candidates like Paul & Kucinich are called nutjobs, or not viable candidates, it can quickly become a lost cause

i dunno, it looks like a good time to go back to ignoring politics

[Smokey D]

Paul is a nutjob. I dunno about Kucinich. You don't need to go back to 1890 to correct the mistakes of the last few years.

[Danish]

In the most up to date count on delegates I have, Hillary has 582 and Barack has 485. As for the Republicans? Well, it's not like we ever had any hope, for any of the candidates, but for what its worth, McCain has jumped in front by a lot, with 516 delegates. In second is Mitt Romney, with 207. I expect Romney to drop out soon. He has already won every state that would have a Mormon in it, or it would seem so, and he is still far behind. I'm not going to do the math, but it would seem he would have to sweep Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana just to stay in it.

Anyways, back to the OFFICIAL frontrunners. At this point, it seems, as good a fight as Obama has put up, that our next president will be either Hillary or McCain. Regardless of who wins, this country will end up in the same place...the shitter.

We can expect, from either candidate:

More war: McCain seemingly wants war. Hillary may say she doesn't, but has done nothing to stop it (both voted yes on the Defense Department FY 2007 Authorization bill, which gave Bush every dime he wants to continue this failed foreign policy), and of course, both authorized the War in Iraq

Lack of education: Both approved the No Child Left Behind Act, which has just worked wonders thus far

A National ID Card: U gice, this thing actually is real. Major news has covered, it has been voted on in congress. Hillary voted in support of funded for the Real ID Act, McCain did not vote, but has expressed support for it

More Useless Bureaucracy: Both voted in favor of the creation of the Dept. Of Homeland Security, both are in favor of the Patriot Act, etc...

A failed monetary policy: Have either of these candidates even touch on this...at all? Of course not, a deflating dollar doesn't affect them like it affects everybody else.

O.k. I'm bored with this. These are basically the two worst candidates for president, ever. Worse than Kerry and Bush. I firmly believe that.

McCain, I mean c'mon, even his fellow senators hate him...the ones in his OWN PARTY!

Yeah, I want that guy, the one who can't even get along with the people who ****ing agree with him.

And Hillary, OOOOOO Hillary. This womans whole platform is based on bringing change. I don't even need to say much about her. She wants socialized health care, but is the second largest recipient of money from health insurance companies. Enough said, that should be it right there. When she talks about her 35 year history of fighting for changr, she is omitting quite a few things.

I'm sorry guys. I don't think anybody here is a Hillary supporter, but I know there are a few McCainers out there.

And for those brave few, you can take your Straight Talk and express it straight up your ***. Immature? Maybe. But better than ignorant.

Mark it down. It's the first time I agree with one of your posts! ;)

[gregulus]

Paul is a nutjob. I dunno about Kucinich. You don't need to go back to 1890 to correct the mistakes of the last few years.
pre-1913 or bust.

[WhoDidTheElf]

well you see, this is the problem with politics, you like his policies but wouldn't vote for him because hes conservative AKA republican

as opposed to the liberal democrats


Hardly. he's a neo-conservative at the very best. I consider him a democrat by most means.

[ringworm]

Paul is a nutjob
eh, to mock the only candidate who pushes being fiscally responsible, less taxes…you know what? why bother defending him against people who welcome what he he opposes and support those who want to continue doing the same thing that has made America what it is today :/ i'm tired of it and its pointless :)

America needs change, we hear it everywhere, the frontrunners use it campaigning, but none of them offer it in reality, then they label the few that would make changes as radicals, lol

like i said in another thread, i'm prob stepping back from debating politics or even caring anymore, raise my taxes for programs that I'll never use, enact legislation to continue spending what we dont have, run on issues that only get you elected, then fail to ever address them, talk about the average American like you represent them, but totally ignore what they wish for, then call those who do care and stand for something as un-electable, then talk about the apathy of Americans, and I mean the ones that could change the country without the need for legislation, but are so fed up with how inneffective it is, they just dont care

[The Transporter 2]

mccain is a moron

if he wins the republican nomination, i'm voting for the dems. might as well have a true dem in the office to screw things up instead of a dem in disguise

[Cain]

http://thepage.time.com/obama-delegate-count/

I believe this shows that in terms of pledged delegates, i.e. delegates where voters are the ones who decides where it goes, Obama is still in the lead, albeit by a ridiculously slim margin that essentially amounts to a Democrat vote split. However, he did win more states, and they were nearly all non-traditional votes with the exception of Connecticut, my home state and one which I'm very proud of at the moment.

Hillary is in the lead overall by at least a hundred delegates because of the retarded superdelegate policy. But the voters are fairly evenly split with a slight slight advantage given to Obama, which I think is doubly impressive given his failure to win the biggest, bluest states.

[Mr. Ron]

To be honest, I'm happy if either Hilary or Obama get in. I just don't want another conservative president. :(

[Otherside]

Hilary is conservative :(

If Hillary wins, and I know this is a common saying among displaced teenagers, of which I claim no association, I have serious plans to be leaving the country in the near future.

[Mr. Ron]

Hilary is conservative :(

If Hillary wins, and I know this is a common saying among displaced teenagers, of which I claim no association, I have serious plans to be leaving the country in the near future.

I always hear that, but I do not know enough about her to agree. What makes her that way in your eyes?

[guitrguy]

Wait, how is getting out of a mess, universal healthcare, and taking care of people screwing things up?

[Shell]

I don't wanna rule out Obama just yet. :( How many states are left?

[The Transporter 2]

1. what mess are you referring to?
2. the more the government is involved in things, the worse things are. i'd rather pay for my own healthcare (or, you know, get a job that provides it) than have taxes hiked
3. after some point, people need to learn to take care of themselves. relying on the government to hold your hand on everything is a bad idea.

[Mr. Ron]

No one is suggesting that the government should take control over everything. There's a difference between government involvement, and government authority.

[The Transporter 2]

despite that i didn't say anything of the sort, i'll take the bait:

mandating a tax increase to fun a "universal" healthcare despite whether you want to be a part of it is government authority not government involvement

now, i challenge you to name one time that increased government involvement has improved anything?

[Mr. Ron]

despite that i didn't say anything of the sort, i'll take the bait:

mandating a tax increase to fun a "universal" healthcare despite whether you want to be a part of it is government authority not government involvement

now, i challenge you to name one time that increased government involvement has improved anything?

Government funding of important research in science

[The Transporter 2]

such as?

[Knifeboy]

now, i challenge you to name one time that increased government involvement has improved anything?

Does the rest of the world count? You know, like countries with functioning governments

[ringworm]

What makes her that way in your eyes?
everything she does when not speaking :p

seriously though, her voting record hardly coincides with being a mainstream Dem, or at least very contradictory to what she pronounces in public, but, she's not as bad as most portray her, shes no more sheepish in following trends than any other politician, frontrunners included

[Mr. Ron]

such as?


Human genome project.

[The Transporter 2]

Does the rest of the world count? You know, like countries with functioning governments

sure

[ringworm]

Does the rest of the world count? You know, like countries with functioning governments
and sky high taxes to compensate for all the extracurricular activites? :)

[The Transporter 2]

To be honest, I'm happy if either Hilary or Obama get in. I just don't want another conservative president. :(

so you'll be happy if mccain wins too then?

[Knifeboy]

sure

Government involvement is the reason that I and everyone else who lives here, can get an excellent education.
I'd say that's pretty good

and sky high taxes to compensate for all the extracurricular activites? :)

Sure, high taxes, but our minimum wage is more than four times as high as yours.
It's pretty hard to end up with less money in my hands every month compared to the average american
Unlike where you live, I could raise two kids on my own without having to work 2 jobs (... odd example really, i know)

[Mr. Ron]

so you'll be happy if mccain wins too then?

He's more democratic than any of the other Republican candidates, but he's still pretty conservative.

[Mr. Ron]

Especially since more services are cheaper and in most cases free to the public.

[The Transporter 2]

Government involvement is the reason that I and everyone else who lives here, can get an excellent education.
I'd say that's pretty good



government involvement in the US' K-12 education program is partially why a lot of kids grow up to be so stupid here. if there was competition in schools necessitated by lack of subsidy (similar to the way colleges and universities work), schools would have to not suck in order to get "customers"

[Knifeboy]

That was why I made the comment about functioning governments vs america :p

[Mr. Ron]

oh and learning isn't nearly as stressed in America as it is in other countries.

[The Transporter 2]

i'm just saying, the US governemnt fails alot becuase they stick their nose where it doesnt belong. i.e. healthcare, schooling, the economy, etc

[ringworm]

Sure, high taxes, but our minimum wage is more than four times as high as yours
$23 per hour for min wage?

[Knifeboy]

$20

It's possible to earn nearly $30 an hour doing unskilled temp work here!... That was a fun couple of months.. Untill I went back to studying :/

[Mr. Ron]

$20

..........I get $7.15.



...

[ringworm]

That was why I made the comment about functioning governments vs america :p
exactly, many people want to correct our flaws before adding more programs that will fail, but they are deemed as nutjobs

It's possible to earn nearly $30 an hour doing unskilled temp work here!... That was a fun couple of months.. Untill I went back to studying :/
without knowing how much consumables cost, that still doesnt equate to living high on the hog, a million bucks could buy a piece of ocean front property with a large house where I live, and only a few states to the north of me, that would barely buy a apartment big enough to raise a family

tell me how much an average dining out would cost you and a date, or clothes etc, to average what making $30 per/hour equates to

$30 an hour may be no different than $7.15 once you calculate the cost of living etc

[Knifeboy]

tell me how much an average dining out would cost you and a date, or clothes etc,


I'm a bum in a long term relationship, I've never gone on a real date, and never really buy clothes :p
Going dining at a non-fast food place costs about 30-40 bucks per person

Some stuff here are insanely expensive, like going to the movies (10-15 bucks!) and buying music instruments, but there's several reasons for that

As far as I know, every day necessities like food and stuff, cost about twice as much here as in America, but then again, I don't know how much prices vary across America, I've been to San Francisco, and compared prices with a guy that lives in Conneticut..

I can tell you that my 500 square feet apartment (kinda expensive, in the capital of Denmark) costs 500 bucks a month..
I spend a little less than 200 bucks on food a month, unless I'm being reeally lazy... Which is... almost always

[Mr. Ron]

You can survive on little when you're not a wasteful person. So even though it may be more expensive over there for a few things, it all balances out if you're not a dimwit about it.

[McP3000]

Government funding of important research in science
Most (a very very large portion) of science's greatest leaps forward has been done on a private budget.
Same thing goes for medical research.

[Seafroggys]

Apparently Obama is still ahead, at least that's what MSNBC says.

Maybe he didn't win Super Tuesday but he's still ahead.

[Iscariot]

well you see, this is the problem with politics, you like his policies but wouldn't vote for him because hes conservative AKA republican

as opposed to the liberal democrats

Actually it's more I wouldn't vote for him because I like Obama better.

yeah

iscariot is more conservative than i am and yet he won't vote for Republicans

i dont get it.

I'm not conservative at all. When I troll I take the most conservative standpoint I can because those are always the most offensive, but in reality I'm a democrat raised by democrats in a democratic community.

[The Transporter 2]

are you gay?

[Iscariot]

No. What does that have to do with anything?

[guitrguy]

Most (a very very large portion) of science's greatest leaps forward has been done on a private budget.
Same thing goes for medical research.

that means a whole lot of nothing, if anything it can be said that profit skews the objectives of science as a whole.

[gregulus]

Most (a very very large portion) of science's greatest leaps forward has been done on a private budget.
Same thing goes for medical research.

you seem to not realize how important federal funding is for scientific research. the vast majority (and by vast i mean vast) of scientific research is made possible because of federal funding.

[WhoDidTheElf]

Yeah like the tests that...I forget the college, but it was one of the big name ones, were run to show that teen drivers were worse than their older peers.

Thx gov.

[Against Miik!]

He took the lead late after all the votes were counted. I'm on the east coast, so not all the votes were in yet, but I knew Hillary at least took California. Still though, after all the hype Obama has gotten these past two weeks, for him to just barely inch ahead isn't good enough. This is the best he's got, I think, and it's barely good enough to take down Hillary. Hillary is ahead in Ohio. She will probably take it. After that it comes down to Texas. Obama NEEDS Texas to stay in it, assuming Hillary does take Ohio.

I really am not for any Democratic platform, but I can stand Obama. I used to be really into him. I even bought his book. Not so much anymore, but it would be alright. We seemingly are not ready for the Ron Paul Revolution, so he is the only acceptable candidate left. Thats really sad, that there are five people left in the race, and we have one "acceptable" candidate.

This is what happens though when young people don't vote. Old folks are overwhelming for Hillary, when it comes to Dems, and young people for Obama. But WE DON't VOTE!

Also, what makes me sick, is that in the New Hampshire primary, and I'm guessing most other places, thirty something percent of the people who voted for McCain said they were against the war in Iraq. Like, are you ****ing kidding me?

Regardless, I will be voting for Ron Paul come March 4th. I don't even care if he dropped out. He is the only person who I can in good conscience vote for. Call it a wasted vote. I don't care. I am not voting for the lesser of two evils again. I will vote for who I want to be president.

[Iscariot]

Government funding may be the pillar of most scientific research but it's also a plague because scientists working on studies with a broad time span are pressed to present results to prove they're actually getting something done and this leads to sensationalized and unproven information being leaked into the public.

[Reaganista]

obama isnt out of it yet

mccain would have a good shot at beating hilary as long as some jesus guy doesn't run as a spoiler

this country will end up in the same place...the shitter.
this country is so far from the shitter it's ridiculous that you could even think that

[Against Miik!]

you seem to not realize how important federal funding is for scientific research. the vast majority (and by vast i mean vast) of scientific research is made possible because of federal funding.

I find it extremely problamatic when the government pumps money into anything. Subsidies artificially raise costs (see health care) and allow **** technologies to advance while others are not even addressed (see ethanol).

Show me a politican who knows anything about technology or science, and I'll show you, well, I won't show you anything, because you won't find one.

Some things are just better left to the professionals. Politicians aren't anything but professional assholes.

[Seafroggys]

If I was Democrat, I'd vote for Kucinich in the primary, even though I doubt he'll be on the ticket now that he's dropped out (damn Oregon's late primary).

If Obama does not win the nomination, I will vote for Green and/or Socialist party candidate, no doubt about it. I will not vote for anybody else who is a current contender.

[TimJim]

Vote for what you are and post your opinion if you would like

[thedeadwalk!]

This thread needs more focus.

[Seafroggys]

I voted both Pro-Choice and Pro-Life because saying you are for choice does not mean you are against life.

Also, fetuses aren't living.

[Against Miik!]

Tway: I see what you mean, about this country not being in the shitter yet. But thats all relative. Sure we can say what we want without losing a hand (for now), we can practice any religion we want with minimal persecution, and women can vote (for Democrats).

But these things are all relative. This country used to be the land of oppurtunity. Now, 35 million people living here have a hard time finding there next meal. Even more than that can't afford to see a doctor. And probably many more than that can't afford to stay in their homes.

For 60% of Americans, there annual income hasn't increased in a decade due to inflation. It's just little things like this that tend to add up, but slowly, so we don't really notice them, that tell me we are definitely goin downhill. It's not a lost cause, but I'm not looking forward to the next 5 years.

[Against Miik!]

I'm am a conservative, but not a neocon. I'm not really a fan of homosexuality, but I don't care if gays get married. If I got a girl pregnant, I would hope that she does not get an abortion, and I would probably ask her not too, but it doesn't really bother me if others do. Well, it does, but I'm not about to make them act one way or the other.

So really, I could check off every box on that list. I personally, following the conservative line of thinking, but as far as instituting laws, I would follow the liberal line of thinking.

Actually, I just don't think there should be federal laws one way or the other.

And yes, this thread needs more focus, but its done now, so whatev

[DBoons Ghost]

I don't think categories exist to describe my beliefs.

[Otherside]

TimJim I am interested in your decision to vote against gay marriage please explain

[TimJim]

i cant exactically think of how it could be more focused

im conservative. I think that fetuses are as human as you and me.

[DBoons Ghost]

i cant exactically think of how it could be more focused

im conservative. I think that fetuses are as human as you and me.

Right so a fetus can fend for itself! Feed itself, get a job, pay taxes..

[TimJim]

they are just as helpless as babies i meant.

[Against Miik!]

I still can't do those things.

[thedeadwalk!]

i cant exactically think of how it could be more focused
Focus on one issue. All of these options could be their own thread (and have).

[DBoons Ghost]

Haha.. babies aren't as helpless as you might think but giving a group of cells the same set of rights as an infant is madness.

However, if a woman is more then 5 months pregnant and is murdered, I am all for charging the felon with two counts of murder. However, anything before that is ok.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[Against Miik!]

Haha.. babies aren't as helpless as you might think but giving a group of cells the same set of rights as an infant is madness.

However, if a woman is more then 5 months pregnant and is murdered, I am all for charging the felon with two counts of murder. However, anything before that is ok.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Ron Paul said that! You make be proud D.

[Knifeboy]

I still can't do those things.

I can't even tie my own shoes :upset:

[Bordello]

Oh wait I misread the thread. I didnt see the word least.

Well in that case I least want to see Huckabee, these results make sense now, hahahha.

Huckabee has a chill personality and plays bass and has a sick sense of humor so thats awesome, but his running mate is jesus and hes a batshit crazy social conservative.

ya forreal

[DBoons Ghost]

Ron Paul said that! You make be proud D.

Hey I try. Ron Paul is a loon just like me though. I would barely trust me to raise my daughter much less run a country.

I am against capital punishment though unless the crime can be proven beyond any doubt and we make it cheaper to kill them. Like hang them. All that appeals nonense is just crazy. If they are guilty, hang em right there in the courtroom.

[lunchforthesky]

**** I voted for the one I wanted to see most. Ugh.

I'd say Huckabee then. No creationist evangelicals. I'd even prefer a Mormon.

[lunchforthesky]

What a crap thread.

[Iscariot]

lol mormons

[The Transporter 2]

Apparently Obama is still ahead, at least that's what MSNBC says.

Maybe he didn't win Super Tuesday but he's still ahead.

msnbc is one of the last places you should go to for news

[iliketoplaydrums10111]

Pro-Choice
Pro-Gay Marriage

I'm reactionary tbqh lmao

[Knifeboy]

if you look on google news, and click on election news, right now, theres 70 articles, and they're -all- about mccain, except one about huckabee saying he isn't beaten yet, guess the obama-clinton feud is old news now :p

[McP3000]

if you look on google news, and click on election news, right now, theres 70 articles, and they're -all- about mccain, except one about huckabee saying he isn't beaten yet, guess the obama-clinton feud is old news now :p
Hardly old news, but it is news that McCain is the clear victor/runaway leader of it all.

[JohnXDoe]

i voted for Clinton and Casino's :smoke:

[McP3000]

**** I voted for the one I wanted to see most. Ugh.

I'd say Huckabee then. No creationist evangelicals. I'd even prefer a Mormon.
hahaha

are you kidding right?

[The Transporter 2]

remember that one year when all of the candidates sucked?

[Reaganista]

no it makes sense evangelicals are worse than mormons

[Against Miik!]

o wait...

[Give me Beer]

Hilary is conservative :(

If Hillary wins, and I know this is a common saying among displaced teenagers, of which I claim no association, I have serious plans to be leaving the country in the near future.

Come to Brussels. My American buddy that always bitches about American politics had to go back to the US, so I need a fresh one that can keep me entertained while drinking beer.

Our politics suck as well, but all the rightwingers always whine about the "leftist state that oppresses all us poor conservatives" so I suppose you'd like it better than the US, lol.

[Surtr]

Pro-Choice
Anti-Gay Marriage
Liberal

[Dave de Sylvia]

Thats really sad, that there are five people left in the race, and we have one "acceptable" candidate.
That's hardly surprising since your political views barely intersect with the mainstream. Most people have at least a couple of candidates they can work with.

[Against Miik!]

As with music, most of the good stuff is not mainstream. Most of the people who have a couple of candidates to work with will be complaining again in 4 years, probably sooner. And I know why. It's because they don't research the candidates. They know nothing about them but what kind of coverage they get on the news, or if they have heard of them. I know this is true, because more than 1/3 of McCain's votes in New Hampshire were from people who opposed the war in Iraq. New Hampshire may not be a microchosim of the country, but NOBODY who is against the war should vote for McCain.

Even if people research the candidates, and still want to vote for somebody like McCain, it's because they don't know the issues. They know nothing about the war, or terror, or the economy, or what there government is slowly doing to them. It's crap, and it will never change.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Or maybe they have different beliefs than you.

[Against Miik!]

They probably do have different beliefs, but if they vote completely contradictory of what they actually want, or if they just want dumb things, like war and a failed economy, then they shouldn't be able to vote.

This 'they' I refer is the vast majority of America.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I know my posts here seem a little rude at times, but I really think you're deluding yourself if you think the only reason people vote for MOR candidates is because they haven't done enough research into their candidates.

[YDtoad]

As with music, most of the good stuff is not mainstream. Most of the people who have a couple of candidates to work with will be complaining again in 4 years, probably sooner. And I know why. It's because they don't research the candidates. They know nothing about them but what kind of coverage they get on the news, or if they have heard of them. I know this is true, but more than 1/3 of McCain's votes in New Hampshire were from people who opposed the war in Iraq. New Hampshire may not be a microchosim of the country, but NOBODY who is against the war should vote for McCain.

Even if people research the candidates, and still want to vote for somebody like McCain, it's because they don't know the issues. They know nothing about the war, or terror, or the economy, or what there government is slowly doing to them. It's crap, and it will never change.

I'm about the best informed person on here and I'm 100% pro-McCain :p

A lot of people who are pegged as 'anti-war' are only against Bush's idiotic handling of it up until when he started listening to McCain and Petreas.

[Against Miik!]

I know I'm right on this one. When people against the war vote for McCain, or people who vote Hillary, the largest recipient of lobbyist money, because they want change, it's obvious that they are just not educated about the candidates. There is no other explanation for that one. It's not even about whether you agree with the candidate or not. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't even know what they are agreeing with.

What do you mean by MOR?

YD: I'm sorry that you follow and gook hating war mongerer who knows nothing of the economy. He's admitted to all three of those things by the way.

[YDtoad]

catch my edit and you'll see the reason.

[Permanent Solution]

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't even know what they are agreeing with.


Of course they don't. Polls are saying something like half the people voting for Hilary care about healthcare, the only major project she's ever undertaken, and a miserable failure of epic proportions. The thing about democracy is, however, that you can't revoke someone's right to vote for being an uneducated electorate. And the candidates bank on that to win elections of course.

[Against Miik!]

oic. But you think you/all those people are missing the bigger picture. Surge or no surge (which isn't really working), we still have no business being there, we are putting the country in a worse place than it was under Saddam, we are increasing the level of anti Americanism just about everywhere...the list goes on.

Of course they don't. Polls are saying something like half the people voting for Hilary care about healthcare, the only major project she's ever undertaken, and a miserable failure of epic proportions. The thing about democracy is, however, that you can't revoke someone's right to vote for being an uneducated electorate. And the candidates bank on that to win elections of course.

I'm not serious when I say people shouldn't be allowed to vote. I'm just citing one of the major downfalls of the American democracy.

And Hillarycare makes me throw up in my mouth. At least Barack sorta gets it, minus the subsidies thing.

[Otherside]

Anti-Gay Marriage


timjim would not answer so maybe you could help me understand why

[YDtoad]

YD: I'm sorry that you follow and gook hating war mongerer who knows nothing of the economy. He's admitted to all three of those things by the way.

I'm guessing those three things are:

1) 'gook hating'
2) 'war mongerer'
3) 'knows nothing of the economy'

Well,

1) McCain used to use the term 'gook', only in reference to the Viet Cong. Which is completely understandable when you realize what they put him through and that he in no way meant the term to be in its broader racist context. He realized that it was still inappropriate to use, and subsequently stopped using it. The Vietnamese American community has no problem with him, so this is a non-issue.
2) 'war mongerer' what does this even mean?
3) 'knows nothing of the economy' again this is a sort of off the cuff remark he made, that doesn't reflect his real record. McCain has more experience in dealing with the economy than anyone else in this race. Check out his legislative work and committee assignments. He's been consistently a budget hawk and pro-growth.

[Give me Beer]

3) 'knows nothing of the economy' again this is a sort of off the cuff remark he made, that doesn't reflect his real record. McCain has more experience in dealing with the economy than anyone else in this race. Check out his legislative work and committee assignments. He's been consistently a budget hawk and pro-growth.

I'm just wondering but how does being a "budget hawk" denote economical abilities? Also, pro-growth, as opposed to someone that is anti-growth?

[YDtoad]

I'm just wondering but how does being a "budget hawk" denote econmical abilities?

It shows a committment to eliminating wasteful spending, and that always entails better management.


Also, pro-growth, as opposed to something that is anti-growth?

As opposed to pandering to voters with unnecessary spending, tarriffs, giveaways, etc.

[Against Miik!]

I'm guessing those three things are:

1) 'gook hating'
2) 'war mongerer'
3) 'knows nothing of the economy'

Well,

1) McCain used to use the term 'gook', only in reference to the Viet Cong. Which is completely understandable when you realize what they put him through and that he in no way meant the term to be in its broader racist context. He realized that it was still inappropriate to use, and subsequently stopped using it. The Vietnamese American community has no problem with him, so this is a non-issue.
2) 'war mongerer' what does this even mean?
3) 'knows nothing of the economy' again this is a sort of off the cuff remark he made, that doesn't reflect his real record. McCain has more experience in dealing with the economy than anyone else in this race. Check out his legislative work and committee assignments. He's been consistently a budget hawk and pro-growth.

1) No. McCain has no right to hate "gooks". It shows his ignorance and lack of ability to see the bigger picture. I am sure I will never experience anything like what he went through, but it allows me to be an objective observer. In reality, he is lucky they let him live. He has admitted to killing civilians in Vietnam. When he was captured, he was surrounded by Vietnamese civilians who wanted to kill him, but the soldier there took him to the police instead. He should be grateful for that.

I mean think about, if one of those terrorits on 9/11 somehow survived and dropped out of the sky into the streets of Manhattan, how long would he have survived?

2) The man wants war. He thrives on it, and he is running his campain on it. He may have been a POW, good for him, but he was an military career was average at best, and it hardly qualifies him to run a war.

3) Well, lets see, he has voted on like 4 issues related to budget and speding since last May. And the fact that he is so pro war would mean that he would spend this country into an even bigger hole than we are in now.

Did you know that with our Defense budget, we could launch a manned spacecraft every 15 days? I'm not saying we should, but it kinda puts things into perspective.

[Against Miik!]

Lets also not forget how bad the media got on Ron Paul for some supposedly racist comments he made like 20 years ago that he didn't even say, yet they completely ignore McCains comments about the Vietnamese. Bias much?

[YDtoad]

1) No. McCain has no right to hate "gooks".

Wait he has no right to hate the people who tortured him?


When he was captured, he was surrounded by Vietnamese civilians who wanted to kill him, but the soldier there took him to the police instead.

They 'let him live' because he was useless to them dead. Instead they tortured him (real torture, not waterboarding or playing loud music) to extract information from him.

I mean think about, if one of those terrorits on 9/11 somehow survived and dropped out of the sky into the streets of Manhattan, how long would he have survived?


:lol: You're seriously trying to compare John McCain to the 9/11 terrorists?


2) The man wants war.

:confused: what do you mean???


but he was an military career was average at best, and it hardly qualifies him to run a war.

His academic scores weren't high, but that really means little. George McClellan was first in his class and a complete failure as a general and politician.

3) Well, lets see, he has voted on like 4 issues related to budget and speding since last May.

That's what happens when you run for president: you miss votes.


Did you know that with our Defense budget, we could launch a manned spacecraft every 15 days? I'm not saying we should, but it kinda puts things into perspective.

The question isn't how much we're spending, it's whether we're spending enough. And, by the way, amongst the many things McCain has been able to kill is a wasteful military expenditure that no one in the military actually wanted.

[YDtoad]

Lets also not forget how bad the media got on Ron Paul for some supposedly racist comments he made like 20 years ago that he didn't even say, yet they completely ignore McCains comments about the Vietnamese. Bias much?

Ok here's the difference:

Ron Paul profited off a newsletter that over the course of multiple years ran consistently outrageously racist and conspiratorial garbage. It is simply implausible to say that he didn't know what was being said.

Whereas McCain used a term in a non racist context, very similar to Robert Byrds misunderstood 'white ******' comment.
Further elaboration on it here: http://asianweek.com/2000_02_24/feature_vietamreaction.html

[Dave de Sylvia]

Lets also not forget how bad the media got on Ron Paul for some supposedly racist comments he made like 20 years ago that he didn't even say, yet they completely ignore McCains comments about the Vietnamese. Bias much?
Not to contradict you, but I just read this a few hours ago :p

The half-life of Ron Paul's racist newsletters, a story that has gained almost as little traction as the Paul campaign itself, gets a new wrinkle as Reason's Julian Sanchez and Dave Weigel name the infamous Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. as the pigment- and wrist-strength-obsessed ghostwriter. That was my guess when the identity of Mr. or Madame X became an issue, and the authors have got a host of fellow travelers stating that it was indeed Liberty Lew.

[Against Miik!]

You're god damn right I'm comparing McCain to the 9/11 terrorists. I don't even want to know how many Vietnamese civilians we killed while we were over there. It was probably more than 2000.

The question isn't how much we're spending, it's whether we're spending enough.

I'm just gonna quote that and walk away.

Splat: It got more coverage than the McCain thing. And that story is crap anyways. Right around the time the Paul allegations came out, I saw a story about it on every opinion show on CNN, MSNBC, expecially Faux New etc...

[TimJim]

timjim would not answer so maybe you could help me understand whyi would not answer so that i would not offend you.

[YDtoad]

You're god damn right I'm comparing McCain to the 9/11 terrorists. I don't even want to know how many Vietnamese civilians we killed while we were over there.

It was never the policy of the United States to target civilians. The 9/11 terrorists on the other hand sought to do precisely that. Your comparison is outrageous.


I'm just gonna quote that and walk away.

So you don't want to spend enough on defense?

[Against Miik!]

I'm saying intentions don't matter. By some counts we've killed a million civilians in Iraq. In the name of democracy or not, that is unacceptable.

And I'm saying I want to spend enough on defense, but we spend far more than enough...try more than the rest of the world combined. Maybe taking military bases out of Korea that have been there for 50 years and not building permanent bases in Iraq would be a start?

and the Paul thing is sketchy at best.

[Yield]

TimJim, we can no longer be friends.

Pro-Choice: A woman can vote, join the military, wear pants, etc. but she is too stupid to decide for herself whether or not she believes abortion is right for herself?

Pro-Gay Marriage: The sanctity of marriage? The sanctity of marriage was tainted when the idea of sticking it into a church became socially acceptable; in a predominantly Christian society, it would make sense to hold marriages outside of a church, as it is hallowed ground. Besides, straight marriage should be outlawed and whites should be enslaved; then we wouldn't need to worry about reperations for anyone, since everyone has been ****ed over at least once.

We can bring down the white man in other ways...however, I am exempt as it was my idea.

Liberal: I try to reference The Communist Manifesto at least once in some obscure (or not so obscure :p) way in all of my papers.

[YDtoad]

I'm saying intentions don't matter.

That is a ridiculous argument to make. We killed many civilians in WW2, none by strategy. By your standard then we're no better than Nazi Germany and shouldn't have fought them since inevitably innocent people had to die.

Innocent people will die in war, that is a reality. Responsible governments take actions to minimize the amount of civilian casualties. Terrorists on the other hand seek to maximize them.


By some counts we've killed a million civilians in Iraq.


Counts that are outrageously exaggerated.


And I'm saying I want to spend enough on defense, but we spend far more than enough...try more than the rest of the world combined.

Wherever you're getting that from is being dishonest.
We're nowhere near the top of the list of biggest military expenditures when you take into account the size of the budget: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_per_of_gdp-military-expenditures-percent-of-gdp


Maybe taking military bases out of Korea that have been there for 50 years and not building permanent bases in Iraq would be a start?

Considering the threat of North Korea it'd be foolish to take bases out. The border between N and S Korea remains one of the most dangerous places around. And, there's no reason not to have permanent bases in Iraq.

and the Paul thing is sketchy at best.


It's really not. He profited off a racist newsletter with his name on it. That's not sketchy at all.

[Aaron]

Pro-choice, anti-garriage, conservative;
A foetus isn't a person till it breathes, in my opinion.
I think that gay-subculture is built on a poor-functioning relationships.
Feel free to disagree but that's my views.

[Against Miik!]

That is a ridiculous argument to make. We killed many civilians in WW2, none by strategy. By your standard then we're no better than Nazi Germany and shouldn't have fought them since inevitably innocent people had to die.

Innocent people will die in war, that is a reality. Responsible governments take actions to minimize the amount of civilian casualties. Terrorists on the other hand seek to maximize them.

Civilian casualties do happen, and they are something that should be taken into account before starting a useless, illegal war. The U.S. has no regard whatsoever for innocent life. But God forbid someone gets an abortion.

Counts that are outrageously exaggerated.
Excep they aren't. The official number will be lower, because it's being released by the U.S. government. Why would they be honest about all the civilian casulaties? Estimates by folks who have no affiliation with the U.S. government have much higher estimates.

Wherever you're getting that from is being dishonest.
We're nowhere near the top of the list of biggest military expenditures when you take into account the size of the budget: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_per_of_gdp-military-expenditures-percent-of-gdp

I'm not lying. Perhaps compared to the budget its different, but considering our budget is uncontrollably huge, I don't doubt those numbers. Still doesn't change anything.


Considering the threat of North Korea it'd be foolish to take bases out. The border between N and S Korea remains one of the most dangerous places around. And, there's no reason not to have permanent bases in Iraq.

And our presence isn't helping the matter. We have no business being over. If other countries put bases around possible threats, just about every non western european country would have a base in Canada. If you think the U.S. is somehow above the rest of the world, then I can see why you like McCain.


It's really not. He profited off a racist newsletter with his name on it. That's not sketchy at all.

Putting his name on a newsletter that he really had little to do with was a bad political move. He didn't write whatever was in there, and he doesn't believe it, in regards to the racist remarks.

[McP3000]

no it makes sense evangelicals are worse than mormons
Except they're the same thing

[McP3000]

Pro-choice, anti-garriage, conservative;
A foetus isn't a person till it breathes, in my opinion.
I think that gay-subculture is built on a poor-functioning relationships.
Feel free to disagree but that's my views.
I think the concept of marriage should be replaced on a governmental/legal level with a civil-union type construct. However, rename it. Civil-Union sounds so stupid.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

tbh there are more than two positions on the abortion issue

Like I think it's none of my business if a woman wants to have an abortion and she should be able to have one for any reason whatsoever, but I think Roe v. Wade should be overturned for Constitutional reasons

And I think that the government should have absolutely nothing to do with marriage and that it should be a purely social institution

[McP3000]

Civilian casualties do happen, and they are something that should be taken into account before starting a useless, illegal war. The U.S. has no regard whatsoever for innocent life. But God forbid someone gets an abortion.
This a blatant disregard for any sort of logical reasoning or data. You're generalizing about the "United States" just as much as you claim McCain "generalized about Gooks". You aren't objective because you don't know what happened to him and you are completely filled with blind hate of the man.

Except they aren't. The official number will be lower, because it's being released by the U.S. government. Why would they be honest about all the civilian casulaties? Estimates by folks who have no affiliation with the U.S. government have much higher estimates.
That's because they have bleeding hearts and like to demonize the government.
Its probably in between the two sources.

I'm not lying. Perhaps compared to the budget its different, but considering our budget is uncontrollably huge, I don't doubt those numbers. Still doesn't change anything.
It doesnt change the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

And our presence isn't helping the matter. We have no business being over. If other countries put bases around possible threats, just about every non western european country would have a base in Canada. If you think the U.S. is somehow above the rest of the world, then I can see why you like McCain.
I agree that we need to get out of Iraq, but the bases thing is outlandish and ill-informed. Most countries we have bases in asked for our presence. We also moved into many of these bases and areas to fight the threat of communism and MOTHER RUSSIA. It's not like we woke up one day and thought we'd have small occupations in all these countries for fun.

Putting his name on a newsletter that he really had little to do with was a bad political move. He didn't write whatever was in there, and he doesn't believe it, in regards to the racist remarks.
I completely agree. Ron Paul is a hardcore, 100% pure libertarian...and he is by no means racist. He's almost as socially liberal as Kucinich. These people just like finding 'flaws' in RP because they dislike him.

[McP3000]

tbh there are more than two positions on the abortion issue

Like I think it's none of my business if a woman wants to have an abortion and she should be able to have one for any reason whatsoever, but I think Roe v. Wade should be overturned for Constitutional reasons
How does one overturn Roe v. Wade and keep abortion legal?

And I think that the government should have absolutely nothing to do with marriage and that it should be a purely social institution
I would not mind this at ****ing all.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Leave it up to each individual state to decide its policy on abortion, as per the 10th Amendment. It is not the job of the federal government to set that policy

[Aaron]

And I think that the government should have absolutely nothing to do with marriage and that it should be a purely social institution
I also; I think that gay relationships shouldn't be recognised at either level however. Marriage is a concept thats drawn from religious concepts, if you're gay, you're going against those original concepts. It's like saying you're a satanic-christian or a violent-budhist; it's illogical and completely counter the things your trying to become part of.

[Seafroggys]

You can thank Lincoln for ****ing over the 10th admendment. It doesn't mean much nowadays, nor has it for over 150 years.

[Aaron]

We're not all american, try keep discussion broad. :)

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

I also; I think that gay relationships shouldn't be recognised at either level however. Marriage is a concept thats drawn from religious concepts, if you're gay, you're going against those original concepts. It's like saying you're a satanic-christian or a violent-budhist; it's illogical and completely counter the things your trying to become part of.

Various societies have interpreted marriage in a myriad of ways; for most of human history we have been polygamous. Marriage is simply a social institution to support the emotional attachment to that with whom we are attracted. I don't really see it so much as a religious concept as a social one.


You can thank Lincoln for ****ing over the 10th admendment. It doesn't mean much nowadays, nor has it for over 150 years.

I blame FDR for the most part

[Independent_CA]

You know the funny thing is that whoever winds up being president doesn't really matter. Congress affects the daily lives of Americans much, much more but nobody seems to care.

[Iscariot]

I'm not pro-life or pro-choice. I believe that if a healthy birth is likely, the child should be born. If the parents can't raise the child then it should go up for adoption.

However, I believe that if the mothers life is endangered by the birth or if the pregnancy was invoked by a sexual assault, abortion should be an option.

[Der Übermensch]

A conservative who is pro-gay rights and pro-choice.

[Iscariot]

I hope that's not directed at me because everyone keeps calling me a conservative today but I'm not a conservative. Everyone needs to buy a dictionary or something.

[Der Übermensch]

My two bits on this:
I'm lazy and tired, so will try to find this tomorrow, but it's an account from Vietnam. To sum it up, it's about a Green Beret recollecting about their local scout. He had once been VC, but his family was killed by the NVA, so he defected, and loved to kill gooks. Importantly, that was his word for them. Gooks. Gook's weren't Vietnamese. They were VC and NVA specifically. He didn't consider himself a gook, nor did any of the Americans in the unit.

[Der Übermensch]

No, that was just what I selected as my choices.

[Iscariot]

oh ok vague posts ftw

<3

[Der Übermensch]

I'm not in the mood to explicate. I should be asleep. Might add some tomorrow.

[Seafroggys]

You know the funny thing is that whoever winds up being president doesn't really matter. Congress affects the daily lives of Americans much, much more but nobody seems to care.

Congress is useless, they don't do anything useful.

[Iscariot]

You know the funny thing is that whoever winds up being president doesn't really matter. Congress affects the daily lives of Americans much, much more but nobody seems to care.

Probably because Congress can't do anything without the authorization of the President so saying that half the worm takes the apple is pretty silly.

[Reaganista]

You know the funny thing is that whoever winds up being president doesn't really matter. Congress affects the daily lives of Americans much, much more but nobody seems to care.

actually congress is almost entirely meaningless

[spitfirejunky]

I also; I think that gay relationships shouldn't be recognised at either level however. Marriage is a concept thats drawn from religious concepts, if you're gay, you're going against those original concepts. It's like saying you're a satanic-christian or a violent-budhist; it's illogical and completely counter the things your trying to become part of.

Utterly irrelevant. And marriage isn't a strictly religious agreement anyway.

[Give me Beer]

That is a ridiculous argument to make. We killed many civilians in WW2, none by strategy. By your standard then we're no better than Nazi Germany and shouldn't have fought them since inevitably innocent people had to die.


Excuse me? None by strategy? It was an avowed strategy of the Allied Aircommand to bomb German cities to terrorize the German population into rising up or surrendering. Why do you think they fire bombed all those cities, for the military value of it? Come on.

[Aaron]

This thread is about personal views, so it's entirely relevant to me and my views.

[Knifeboy]

what about atheists.. Ban them from getting married too?

[GreyHam]

pro gay marriage
pro choice
liberal

as far as gay marriage goes, denying homosexuals the legal security of marriage is discrimination, pure and simple. The word marriage carries religious connotations, but its not limited only to religions that are opposed to homosexuality.

if atheists can get married, the argument againsts homosexuals getting married falls down too

and yea, people should be allowed to get abortions if they want. some people might use it as an excuse not to practice safe sex but if the sex ed in schools is up to scratch it shouldnt be too much of a problem

[Surtr]

timjim would not answer so maybe you could help me understand why

Alright, well, I don't mean this as anything offensive and its not something that I'm all "THIS IS WHAT IT IS!" about. Its just sorta' a side belief, and I pretty much don't care.

I just think that if people can be diagnosed with a Learning Disorder and ****, that how the hell can we not say that gay people have something wrong with them too? I mean they go against the normal (the average) and some (Trannys and ****) are convinced that despite the fact that they're a boy they're actually a girl, when clearly they're not.

If anything it seems like something that you should try and fix, as it seems pretty destructive (Though I 'spose harmless in the end) to who they are as a person.

Its the same thing as someone with depression. We try forever to "cure" it on people, so why the hell aren't we popping pills into gay people?

I know it probably makes no sense, but like I said I don't really enforce it or like to explain it to everyone. I wasn't going to even bother explaining, but since TimJim won't I figured as long as you don't bash me about it and just ask some questions I'll be fine with it.

[beso negro]

the terms liberal and conservative confuse the hell out of me. i guess im a social liberal and a fiscal conservative but idk.

[Knifeboy]

The difference is that usually gay people don't want to change that they're gay.. While most every depressed person wants to not be depressed.. And if they don't want to be cured, they won't get cured.. noone's forcing depressed people to pop pills

[Smokey D]

Part of the power of air superiority is that it allows the dominant power to run a campaign of interdiction, which pretty much necessitates killing civilians.

But the majority of civilian deaths in Iraq are associated with insurgent violence, not the US.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Excuse me? None by strategy? It was an avowed strategy of the Allied Aircommand to bomb German cities to terrorize the German population into rising up or surrendering. Why do you think they fire bombed all those cities, for the military value of it? Come on.
It was British policy to terrorise civilian populations from the air, the USAF was generally more concerned with destroying communications (prime example: Dresden). That said, it's entirely possible the USAF used the fact the RAF chief was a complete lunatic to absolve itself from the responsibility of killing civilians.

Putting his name on a newsletter that he really had little to do with was a bad political move. He didn't write whatever was in there, and he doesn't believe it, in regards to the racist remarks.
I have no idea if he wrote it or not, but I don't believe for a second he had no knowledge of it at any point.

[Milestogo05]

prolife
pro gay marriage
conservative

[guitrguy]

This thread is about personal views, so it's entirely relevant to me and my views.

Then you can't take the stance of preventing marriage that you don't like.

[ringworm]

Lets also not forget how bad the media got on Ron Paul for some supposedly racist comments he made like 20 years ago that he didn't even say, yet they completely ignore McCains comments about the Vietnamese. Bias much?
i agree, the extent of which people went to discredit a potential candidate, that had no conceivable chance of winning, was appalling compared to how the hypocrisy of the frontrunners is ignored, great stuff :p

I love how change is the main topic of this election, but the people that could have really made changes were deemed too radical by the very people professing change on their campaign, so its like change ISNT what the average voter wants, just more of the same.

Anyone excited about this upcoming election needs an examination, imo, the only exciting thing is getting rid of Bush, which is going to happen no matter what, but it seems we're gonna put another clone right back in place.

Obama could conceivably bring a little to the table, but the others dont really have much to offer

[ringworm]

I don't think categories exist to describe my beliefs.
this

[Dave de Sylvia]

so its like change ISNT what the average voter wants, just more of the same.
Or just less change than what Ron Paul represents

[McP3000]

Or just less change than what Ron Paul represents
Um, thats still very little to no change

[Dave de Sylvia]

People want change in the manner in which politics is conducted moreso than actual legislative change. Regardless, as a radical you would obviously be less sensitive to the nuances of political change than those in the political mainstream.

[ringworm]

so keep voting for business as usual then, idk…?

we sent a message last year during the shift in power in the House & Senate, it went unnoticed, now most have forgotten, or so it seems, we're right back where we were

[Dave de Sylvia]

Well things are unlikely to change an awful lot as long as Congress and the White House are at loggerheads. Given the rhetoric which has been spun throughout the campaign by the Dems in particular and the McCain camp, whoever does come in will be eager to foster a more cooperative atmosphere across the party divide. I know it's not your idea of change but it's a change that people appear to be demanding.

[Aklerc]

Huckabee.

[guitrguy]

Except they're the same thing

Not really. I've always met way more moderate Mormons than I have evangelicals.

[-1up!-]

Huckabee quite simply because he's the politician (among the choices) who's religious beliefs contaminated his policies the furthest.

[ringworm]

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."
this was his blunder, until then I thought of him as keeping things are little more separated than that

[ringworm]

I know it's not your idea of change but it's a change that people appear to be demanding.
no, i think it is a crucial step we really need

i hope whoever does get it will try to mend things back together as much as possible, we need to stop quabbling over issues and just do something, whether I agree or disagree with the outcome

[Det_Nosnip]

Easily Romney, followed by Huckabee.

[Det_Nosnip]

Obama still has a chance.
Hillary's not as bad as you're portraying her.
McCain has bad policies but he's at least competent.

Any of the three would be better than Bush...you're off your rocker, Miik.

Oh, and Ron Paul is a douchebag.

[Det_Nosnip]

Anti-Gay Marriage
Liberal

Contradiction.

[tablespoonful]

I propose one hellova reason to elect Obama president...

Seeing as how electing a president hardly matters a whole lot given the scope of all things, we should elect Obama because as we of course know symbols play an enormous role in the minds of billions of earthlings (because they're funny little sentient beings lol) and Obama could be one fantastic symbol to send out to just about any country suggesting America's aptitude for progressiveness and change despite there being hardly any change at all LOLZ.

[Der Übermensch]

Romney Dropped Out! Woohoo! (Well, technically he suspened campaigning, but same overall effect)

[beso negro]

no one is conservative or liberal across the board.

if im wrong explain to me please. im not a pol sci major

[Independent_CA]

Congress is useless, they don't do anything useful.


Probably because Congress can't do anything without the authorization of the President so saying that half the worm takes the apple is pretty silly.

actually congress is almost entirely meaningless


Actually Congress decides what bills and laws to pass and what crosses the President's desk to be signed. There's a reason lobbyists swarm all over Capitol Hill a lot more than they do the White House. Meaningless? Hardly.

[Chrysostom]

Pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and a liberal. The whole thing about being against gay marriage just baffles me really.

[Against Miik!]

Obama would be the only one better than Bush tbqh.

And Ron Paul may be a lot of things, I'll even give you nuts at times, but he definitely is not a douche bag. He is both the most civil and the most honest candidate out of everybody still here and of those that dropped out.

[Against Miik!]

But if we let gays get married, it could lead to beastiality, right? Plus its in the Bible. we are supposed to take that thing word for word. Never mind the fact that the Bible has a passage directly saying tattoos are sinful, and nevermind the fact that prolly millions of people have religous tattoos.

we shuld stone gheys

[Iskandar]

It's pretty difficult to not be better than Bush.

[TimJim]

i think that if they want to be gay they can go be gay in a closet somewhere. they dont need to be married to think that they love each other. and the rest of the population doesnt need to know what 1/100 people are sticking into each others arses. or what lesbians arent sticking into each other.

and i agree with Surtr

[Smokey D]

It's not up to the state, or you, what gay people should and shouldn't be able to express.

[Surtr]

i think that if they want to be gay they can go be gay in a closet somewhere. they dont need to be married to think that they love each other. and the rest of the population doesnt need to know what 1/100 people are sticking into each others arses. or what lesbians arent sticking into each other.

and i agree with Surtr

Well, I don't totally agree on this, though at the same time I do.

Its just that how can we go on about Learning Disorders and spending all this time helping this people over come them while we turn a blind eye to gay people and let go on.

Either we need to start forcing gay people to pop pills and get better or we need to stop pushing all these other people to do this ****.

I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off on it, but like I said, this is why I don't yell about it.

[TimJim]

i refused to answer earlier people cuz i tend to piss people off when i give my opinions

[Iskandar]

What a crap thread.Quite.

There's a little more to modern politics than like three issues.

[TimJim]

i wanted an all-in-one thread so i didnt have to surf around for what people believed.

[guitrguy]

These are a big deal to the conservative masses.

[Smokey D]

Well, I don't totally agree on this, though at the same time I do.

Its just that how can we go on about Learning Disorders and spending all this time helping this people over come them while we turn a blind eye to gay people and let go on.

Either we need to start forcing gay people to pop pills and get better or we need to stop pushing all these other people to do this ****.

I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off on it, but like I said, this is why I don't yell about it.

No, because people want to fix learning disorders but most gay people who want to get married don't want to stop being gay.

[Knifeboy]

I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off on it, but like I said, this is why I don't yell about it.

You're nuts.

The difference between having a depression, learning disorder, etc. Is that these are all handicaps.
Being gay isn't.
Most gays seem to be pretty happy with it

Edit: Beaten.. Curses!

[Det_Nosnip]

i think that if they want to be gay they can go be gay in a closet somewhere. they dont need to be married to think that they love each other.
There is more to marriage than "saying you love eachother." There are legal rights illegally denied to homosexuals through the ban on marriage.

and the rest of the population doesnt need to know what 1/100 people are sticking into each others arses. or what lesbians arent sticking into each other.
The rest of the population doesn't need to know what 99/100 people are sticking into eachothers' vaginas, either. Your point is invalid.

[Det_Nosnip]

Obama would be the only one better than Bush tbqh.

And Ron Paul may be a lot of things, I'll even give you nuts at times, but he definitely is not a douche bag. He is both the most civil and the most honest candidate out of everybody still here and of those that dropped out.

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Seeking a return to the Gold Standard, withdrawing from the UN+NATO, and accepting campaign donations from known neo nazis = douchebaggery. Ron Paul is probably the only candidate worse than 4 more years of Bush.

[Det_Nosnip]

Polygamists around the world heave a sigh of sorrow.

[TimJim]

T
The rest of the population doesn't need to know what 99/100 people are sticking into eachothers' vaginas, either. Your point is invalid.
except penis with vagina is natural in the sense that it gives each other release AND produces offspring.

gay sex only takes care of each other's needs one person at a time, and also doesnt produce children

[Iskandar]

gay sex only takes care of each other's needs one person at a time, and also doesnt produce childrenAnd ... ?

[CarnageFairy]

i think that if they want to be gay they can go be gay in a closet somewhere. they dont need to be married to think that they love each other.

You're absolutely right!

Now that I think about it, why does anyone need to get married in order to think they love each other!?!

Lets' just get rid of the whole thing altogether.

gay sex only takes care of each other's needs one person at a time, and also doesnt produce children

At this point less children is probably good.

[Iskandar]

I'm just sick of hearing about him on the Internet. His campaign is a failure, by and large. It's nice that a Republican who was different from the masses ran, but it's over. He's lost.

[monkeysonmars.]

by your reasoning there would be an endless amount of things we shouldn't be doing. using condoms for a start.

[TheDMV]

I voted for pro-choice, because if I was a politician that's what I would vote for. Personally, I'm pro-life.

[Illmatic]

gay sex only takes care of each other's needs one person at a time

ever heard of a prostate