Lobbying - The group with the most money wins?

[DBoons Ghost]

I am curious how aware we all are with what Lobbying is and how it effects us little people.

Public policy has been ruined (or not, depending on viewpoint) by special interest groups and their ability to spend billions of dollars every year to lobby congress to get their way. Something we, as middle class citizens of either the US, EU or the UK, couldn't possibly compete with.

I am wondering of those among us who know a little more about Lobbyists and the unfortunate "industry" of lobbying can have some sensible discussion on how, either positively or negatively, lobbying has affected our lives. I never hear people discussing this and I am merely curious about how much we all know about Lobbying.

Examples: The US lobbying industry is worth billions in contributions. See http://www.opensecrets.org/ for some ideas on how much money companies are willing to spend in contributions. The EU lobbying industry I couldn't find any fiscals but the fact it exists is enough. It seems the EU's lobbying is least corrupt of the main three. The UK industry is now worth 1.9 billion dollars and many measures are made to prevent corruption given how the UK"s system works. Though in Washington DC, many companies have sprung up billing themselves as "professional lobbyists" and this is not a good thing in my opinion. A lot of people have seen "Thank You for Not Smoking" as an example of the power of lobbying and the money it requres.

My fear is one day the Pro-Life people will simply have more money then the Pro-Choice people and they will win the day. Is that all it takes? Money?


We as people were given this power by Congress, at least in America, to be able to walk into the Capitol and speak our minds to Congress. However, Lobbying has destroyed that ability.

Interesting fact: in 2004, The US Senate tried to pass a bill (S1, Section 220 was the key) into law that sought to encourage more grassroots lobbying to give average citizens their rights to speak to Federal officials back. The ACLU, National Right to Life Committee and the NRA argued this, through lobbying, thus killing that right. Now, Section 220 was removed from the Bill, and the right to lobby remains "under consideration" which more or less means "yeah right see ya in 20 years".

Check these sites out to connect the dots on the money trail.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/lobby/
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch
http://www.opensecrets.org/

Maybe we can have some discussion about this. Anyone?

[ringworm]

We as people were given this power by Congress, at least in America, to be able to walk into the Capitol and speak our minds to Congress. However, Lobbying has destroyed that ability

did you see the docu on the waiting line to do this?

most would have to wait hours and hours to get a chance to speak or lobby, and the procedure is very "Soup Nazi" in its conception, kinda geared to keep the general population from having a real chance of getting a chance, lobbyists have gotten legislation passed where they pay people to stand in for them, and it is a VERY competitive race to get a certain spot so you do get heard that day. The lobbyists have several people positioned in line to make the wait longer for the opposition on whatever bill or topic is at hand.

It was crazy.

[DBoons Ghost]

What can we do to take that power back? More to the point, does it even matter anymore?

If we as a people are looking to take this government back as the democrats are stating, logically this is what needs doing, as no one represents us better then us. The only way to do away with special interests groups getting their way is to do something about this issue.

[Shell]

Ban lobbyists!

If you want something done, call your senator like all the rest of us... don't pay them off.

[DBoons Ghost]

Senators do nothing but serve special interests. At least in NY. Hillary is living proof and now the bitch might be President. It's the most frustrating thing about her. She's never cared about the common people.

[Shell]

Seriously. Corporations should not be allowed to dictate law just because they have more money than the common voter.

I definitely don't know enough about the topic, but how would you or I suffer if special interest groups were not allowed to financially support an individual's campaign?

[DBoons Ghost]

Seriously. Corporations should not be allowed to dictate law just because they have more money than the common voter.

I definitely don't know enough about the topic, but how would you or I suffer if special interest groups were not allowed to financially support an individual's campaign?

I don't know as much as I'd like about the topic either which is why I hoped to get some discussion going about it.

Your next question is a fantastic question and it's more about campaign reform then it is anything else. Corporations who contribute don't do so on any party. They do it across the board.

Example: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=H04

This is a chart on how much the Pharmaceutical corporations have donated to the parties. If you don't want to click the link, since 1990 they have paid close to 150 million dollars in donations and contributions.

[Dave de Sylvia]

My fear is one day the Pro-Life people will simply have more money then the Pro-Choice people and they will win the day. Is that all it takes? Money?
I think they already have more money. The current regulations are about as close as they could legally get to outlawing abortion.

[DBoons Ghost]

I think they already have more money. The current regulations are about as close as they could legally get to outlawing abortion.

Yeah that's kind of scary to me. I would think it would be scary to anyone.

Truth be told, I don't know how much power lobbyists really have over the average joe. Congress has been trying to reform lobbying for ages but it never seems to go anywhere.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I'm not really sure of any specifics, but it's not hard to point out examples where lobbying has direct effects on us. It usually negatively affects consumers, as in the case of farming subsidies, but in terms of jobs, millions of Americans can probably thank motor vehicle and textile lobbyists for their continued employment.

[DBoons Ghost]

It's nice to know there are positives as well. It's crazy how much money seems to exchange hands in the process.

[Independent_CA]

I'm afraid some form of lobbying, or at least monetary influence, is going to exist in government as long as the capitalist economic system does.

[DBoons Ghost]

I'm afraid some form of lobbying, or at least monetary influence, is going to exist in government as long as the capitalist economic system does.

I guess that's pretty much the thread in a nutshell.

[Hoyle00cdn]

I don't know enough about lobbyist politics to formulate a strong opinion, but i do know some things....

Government lobbying, as I've come to understand it, works most commonly in the business sector.

"Spend money, to make money".....

Is it possible for "pro-life" advocates to lobby their views through government office? Yes! But it's highly unlikely, because there's no money in it. You have to spend A LOT of money to get the government to listen....and this spending is mostly done during elections. "I will give you $XXXXX to help pay for your campaign if you push this bill through." Keep in mind that you are spending this money without the guarantee that your party of choice will even win.

The places where this sort of free-wheeling money can be found is in the business sector. Assuming I was American for a moment, and that I ran a brass fitting company, imagine the American military coming to me and saying "Hello Hoyle, your country's armed service needs $5 million worth of brass fittings for various military uses". I take the contract and begin making tons of profit over the war in Iraq. Even if I'm against the war, my biggest fear is that a new president would pull out of Iraq too fast, crippling my livelihood and making my business go under.

It is in my best interest to make sure those who are in government office understand that they simply cannot pull out of Iraq before I have found alternative sources of income. So I start looking for different ways to donate money (along with every other company in my situation) to lobby groups who are pushing to keep America in Iraq longer.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Pro-life groups have lots of money to burn. I hear this "Catholic Church" thing is pretty big.

[TheDMV]

Is it possible for "pro-life" advocates to lobby their views through government office? Yes! But it's highly unlikely, because there's no money in it. You have to spend A LOT of money to get the government to listen....and this spending is mostly done during elections. "I will give you $XXXXX to help pay for your campaign if you push this bill through." Keep in mind that you are spending this money without the guarantee that your party of choice will even win.

I agree with this notion. Not all, but undoubtedly a HUGE percentage of Lobbyists are looking to spend money only when a greater amount of money will get back in their pockets. For exampe, many wouldn't believe how much lobbying the Dairy Industry does to keep milk and other dairy products in good graces, even when studies show negative effects of it. I'm not sure that lobbyisys would put massive sums of money into social issues like abortion.

In response to the comment that abortion is as close to being illegal as it will get in this country, I think that's a good thing. I don't think that it should be illegal in any states, but I firmly believe that it needs to be controlled and that other options should be available. It has to be available for so many reasons, but there are women who get too many abortions and it just doesn't sit well with me, meaning that it bothers thousands of others far worse.

[Hoyle00cdn]

Pro-life groups have lots of money to burn. I hear this "Catholic Church" thing is pretty big.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic Church has more pressing issues to spend that money on....like trying to keep the priest population up.

[lunchforthesky]

The catholic church is possibly the richest organisation in the world. They have more than enough money for both.

[ringworm]

it takes a lot of money to keep fresh young boys coming in & out so frequently :p

[Hoyle00cdn]

The catholic church is possibly the richest organisation in the world. They have more than enough money for both.

idk, the pro-life/pro-choice debate has been going on for over 10 years now....if the Catholic Church had the money to buy what they wanted as some of you suggest, don't you think they would have done it by now?

I can't speak for America, but I know in Canada no buddy wants to touch abortion laws with a 10 foot pole. Parliament claims it's not their jurisdiction, so they send the issue to the Supreme Court, then the Supreme Court says it's not their jurisdiction and send it right back to Parliament. It's been going in circles for 10 years now, so the Catholic Church can spend as much money as they want, the government here simply doesn't want to fight for either side.

[Mr. Ron]

I think it's pretty obvious that corporations, special interest groups and lobbyists have the ultimate influence.

[Reaganista]

the group with the most money doesn't always win sometimes they lose

[Mr. Ron]

of course, but they can afford that and come back again and again in most cases

[McP3000]

its the american dream

[wartomods]

**** and i thought uk was part of EU

[Hoyle00cdn]

**** and i thought uk was part of EU

Lobbying in the EU has less influence because central power rotates from country to country every 4 months.

[Dave de Sylvia]

No, it has more power, since EU trade tariffs apply to all countries.

[gregulus]

Yeah that's kind of scary to me. I would think it would be scary to anyone.

Truth be told, I don't know how much power lobbyists really have over the average joe. Congress has been trying to reform lobbying for ages but it never seems to go anywhere.

it's not scary to people because people don't understand the repercussions of outlawing a procedure like abortion.

[Hoyle00cdn]

No, it has more power, since EU trade tariffs apply to all countries.

I'm not talking about jurisdiction though. Lobbyists target those in power. The central power of the EU rotates automatically from country to country every 4 months. Every 4 months lobby groups would have to start kissing *** to a new group of politicians.

[Smokey D]

Sort of. The EU presidency rotates, but the Commission, the EU Parliament and various other EU wide institutions remain fixed in Brussels. The Presidency kind of has very weak executive powers sets broad policy directions, but the other institutions write the laws.

[1338 h4x0r]

If it were completely true, it'd be a hell of way to break the back of lobbying interests.