the most overused phrase by republicans in regards to iraq

[gregulus]

is "honor."


apparently that's more important than making the right decision.

[1338 h4x0r]

is "honor."

I think they live in the movie 300.

[chronopops]

I think they live in the movie 300.

This is delicious!

THIS IS CAKE TOWN1

[1338 h4x0r]

TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!

[gregulus]

i have an idea. let's break the phalanx, even though the phalanx is what gave us any sort of chance (besides the athenian navy of course, which wasn't shown). our dicks are THAT BIG!

[entheogen]

no, the most overused is "VICTORY"

which is not surprising because there is no such thing ...

[Toaster]

in war there are no winners

there are only less-losers

LESS-LOSERS

[Smokey D]

I want to make quoting 300 a banable offense, but I don't think I'm allowed.

The pre-occupation with honour over pragmatic solutions is a disturbing trend, but at the same time I don't know whether Iraq could survive the withdrawal of American troops. At the least, such a move would entrench Iraq's position in Iran's orbit, massively increasing the chance of a theocratic state emerging. More worryingly, Sunni groups would most likely resist with force the imposition of a Shi'a theocracy, effectively leading to a civil war. At the same time, the removal of American troops would remove the barrier preventing Turkey from launching a full scale invasion of Kurdistan. It's a sad fact that Iraq is currently held together by military force from an occupying power, but the absence of that power will almost undoubtedly result in more bloodshed.

[entheogen]

i disagree that pragmatic concerns should be put ahead of honor

because then we should just kill every last Iraqi as quickly as possible and solve the problem that way

no, honor is a good thing ... but stupidity (of voters) is not ...

[Smokey D]

It's not pragmatic to kill everyone you fool.

[Det_Nosnip]

There are better reasons to not kill everybody than honor, lol.

TBH I don't hear Republicans use that word very often, though.

[entheogen]

It's not pragmatic to kill everyone you fool.

ok, we can keep the ones who know how to work the oil rigs plus the prostitutes

actually kill the prostitutes too ... we can import higher grade ones from former soviet union

alsmost forgot - another word they love is "SUCCESS"

[Smokey D]

You're a terrible troll.

[1338 h4x0r]

You're a terrible troll.

entheogen is pretty cool IMO

[entheogen]

oh oh ! maybe its time for me to take a break for tonight ...

[Mr. Ron]

No, please stay.


I think the most overused word would be "heroes". I don't care what anyone says, you're not a hero if you decide to sweat in a LAV all day intimidating civilians.

[entheogen]

"safe"

as in "george bush kept america safe for the past six years" - mitt romney

[1338 h4x0r]

No, please stay.


I think the most overused word would be "heroes". I don't care what anyone says, you're not a hero if you decide to sweat in a LAV all day intimidating civilians.

On the contrary, I think a lot of our US soldiers are forced to eat more than their fair share of **** sandwiches these days. JMO

[Mr. Ron]

I think a lot of our US soldiers are forced to eat more than their fair share of **** sandwiches these days. JMO

Yeah, maybe that was a bit of a generalization, but I just don't see them as "heroes". *shrug*

[entheogen]

"support our troops" is one of Noam Chomsky's favorites ... he said that phrases like this have to be meaningless or they will not work

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah, maybe that was a bit of a generalization, but I just don't see them as "heroes". *shrug*

They're pretty brave to sign up for that. Not necessarily right, but I'd say heroic is an accurate description.

[Mr. Ron]

They're pretty brave to sign up for that. Not necessarily right, but I'd say heroic is an accurate description.

I just disagree. I think most sign up for reasons where bravery hardly enters into their mind.

[1338 h4x0r]

I just disagree. I think most sign up for reasons where bravery hardly enters into their mind.

I agree that the reasons soldiers have for signing up vary widely. However, I feel more a lot more anger towards BushCo than nineteen-year old kids in the Army.

If I were Iraqi, I might feel differently of course. I acknowledge that much.

[Mr. Ron]

I agree that the reasons soldiers have for signing up vary widely. However, I feel more a lot more anger towards BushCo than nineteen-year old kids in the Army.

If I were Iraqi, I might feel differently of course. I acknowledge that much.

I agree.

[1338 h4x0r]

I agree.

That's why you mah broseph.

How come you don't post in R&M?

[entheogen]

being brave and being a hero is not the same thing

one doesn't need a purpose to be brave ... heroes need purpose ... in iraq there is none

[1338 h4x0r]

being brave and being a hero is not the same thing

one doesn't need a purpose to be brave ... heroes need purpose ... in iraq there is none

A lot of soldiers believe in their mission though. But ... as much as I'd like to see the Middle East change into a politically/socially Westernized culture, I doubt it's going to happen through force of arms. I have no idea what it will take.

[entheogen]

as much as I'd like to see the Middle East change into a politically/socially Westernized culture, I doubt it's going to happen through force of arms. I have no idea what it will take.

that would be easy. but nobody needs it so its not going to happen. america historically tends to crush free societies and install dictatorships.

all that it would take to modernize ANY nation is to ensure freedom of information in that nation.

[1338 h4x0r]

all that it would take to modernize ANY nation is to ensure freedom of information in that nation.

Word, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the Middle East. :(

[entheogen]

ok im out for the day. good night.

[McP3000]

oh please

no republican can even scratch the surface of word overuse. The democrats use the word 'change' more than the average pronoun.

[1338 h4x0r]

oh please

no republican can even scratch the surface of word overuse. The democrats use the word 'change' more than the average pronoun.

Mitt Romney, who is running as Ward Cleaver, also way overuses the word 'change'.

[guitrguy]

^this

oh please

no republican can even scratch the surface of word overuse. The democrats use the word 'change' more than the average pronoun.

Well it would be a change. To what degree is a different story.

[Iscariot]

Yeah, maybe that was a bit of a generalization, but I just don't see them as "heroes". *shrug*

Of course not you're not in the middle of the firefights with them watching someone run into the middle of a hot intersection to pull his wounded battle buddy back into shelter before he's finished off or anything so you don't really get the application of the term.

Ron you're so liberal sometimes it physically hurts me.

[Smokey D]

You reckon all soldiers do heroic acts at some point in their career?

[Iscariot]

Not all.

[Smokey D]

So isn't it a mistake to say 'soldiers are heroes' unless they actually do something heroic, in which case their action rather than their career determines their heroic status.

[Iskandar]

Of course not you're not in the middle of the firefights with them watching someone run into the middle of a hot intersection to pull his wounded battle buddy back into shelter before he's finished off or anything so you don't really get the application of the term.This is an appeal to emotion, not an actual point.

[gregulus]

I want to make quoting 300 a banable offense, but I don't think I'm allowed.

The pre-occupation with honour over pragmatic solutions is a disturbing trend, but at the same time I don't know whether Iraq could survive the withdrawal of American troops. At the least, such a move would entrench Iraq's position in Iran's orbit, massively increasing the chance of a theocratic state emerging. More worryingly, Sunni groups would most likely resist with force the imposition of a Shi'a theocracy, effectively leading to a civil war. At the same time, the removal of American troops would remove the barrier preventing Turkey from launching a full scale invasion of Kurdistan. It's a sad fact that Iraq is currently held together by military force from an occupying power, but the absence of that power will almost undoubtedly result in more bloodshed.
Part of the tragedy of the whole thing is that we've been in Iraq since March 2003. This is AMPLE time to train a competent Iraqi military and usher in a mostly stable government. Unfortunately, Rummy mismanaged the war from day one and the effects steamrolled. What needs to be done now, is we need to train the Iraqi military and get out. I'm sure this is easier said than done.

[Mr. Ron]

That's why you mah broseph.

How come you don't post in R&M?

for some odd reason, I just forget about the entire forum at times. I will, though.

[Mr. Ron]

Of course not you're not in the middle of the firefights with them watching someone run into the middle of a hot intersection to pull his wounded battle buddy back into shelter before he's finished off or anything so you don't really get the application of the term.

Ron you're so liberal sometimes it physically hurts me.

I know what hero means.


Just because you sign up doesn't make you a hero. Just because you are in firefights doesn't mean you are a hero.

[Give me Beer]

I have a buddy that once was in a fire-fight and did a similar thing ...

Of course, it was a shoot out between a gang & the cops.

And he was part of the gang.

So I'm not quite sure if you could call him a "hero".

The basic facts are the same though. :)

[Against Miik!]

I don't think that murder is honorable just because you slap an American flag on it. War is justified in some cases, but we have killed, by some reports, a million Iraqis since 2004. I'm sure at least a few of those were civilians. Things are getting a little crazy. Yet all we hear about are the 6 soldiers that died this week. I know, its sad, it really is. But we are foolish to think that those Iraqis are any different than us.

[1338 h4x0r]

for some odd reason, I just forget about the entire forum at times. I will, though.

Wooord, dawg, wooord

Yeah, Against Miik! unfortunately with all the crazy religious militia groups springing up in Iraq and everything, the country may actually become worse than it was under ****ed-up Saddam Hussein. :(

[Iscariot]

So isn't it a mistake to say 'soldiers are heroes' unless they actually do something heroic, in which case their action rather than their career determines their heroic status.

Of course. I'm not supporting the idea that all soldiers are heroes, but to ignore the fact that there are soldiers who perform selfless and heroic acts for the sake of the brothers in arms simply because one does not approve of the war is stupid.

This is an appeal to emotion, not an actual point.

Yeah sure if you don't know what heroic means.

[McP3000]

Wooord, dawg, wooord

Yeah, Against Miik! unfortunately with all the crazy religious militia groups springing up in Iraq and everything, the country may actually become worse than it was under ****ed-up Saddam Hussein. :(
doubt it

[MattyBlade]

This is delicious!

THIS IS CAKE TOWN1

BRUSh youR TEEEEETH!

[Against Miik!]

doubt it

I don't

[1338 h4x0r]

doubt it

It's most likely that more people will die in the civil war or from collateral damage in the coming years than have died under Hussein's administration. Plus, for all his brutality, Hussein was a secular leader. Now we have all the same execution-style shootings, torture, intimidation, ethnic cleansing and everything else, except it's being perpetuated by people who feel the need to evangelize.

[Iskandar]

Yeah sure if you don't know what heroic means.Perhaps I simply don't subscribe to your notion of "heroism."

[VomitStainedCretin]

doubt itIf you're referring to the assertion that more people died on average per day under Saddam than under the present circumstances, if that was true, Iraq would probably have been comprehensively depopulated a long time ago. Unless you simultaneously uphold as true the greatest exaggeration's of Hussein's atrocities and the most conservative estimates for mortality rates in the current conflict.

[Iskandar]

Iraq is worse off than it was under Saddam, which is no mean feat.

[1338 h4x0r]

Iraq is the inspiration for the album Perverse Recollections of a Necromangler.

[tablespoonful]

Politicians inject all kinds of meaning into all kinds of different things. I'm most personally amused by religion, that gets so convoluted with agendas wow how many people have died in the name of God.

[McP3000]

Politicians inject all kinds of meaning into all kinds of different things. I'm most personally amused by religion, that gets so convoluted with agendas wow how many people have died in the name of God.
ooo look

someone thinks its all religion's fault

how cute

[tablespoonful]

Of course it's not religion's fault. Man created God and therefore it's man's fault see how that works lolz.

[McP3000]

Of course it's not religion's fault. Man created God and therefore it's man's fault see how that works lolz.
https://webspace.utexas.edu/warnerwt/picard-facepalm.jpg

you really dont understand do you

[tablespoonful]

Please enlighten me, my mind is starved for revelation.

[McP3000]

i will if you promise to be open minded about the whole religion concept
but i already know you wont so i don know why im asking you

[tablespoonful]

I will seriously try and grasp the concept and hold onto it with my faculty of reason until reason decides to just let it go if at all.

[McP3000]

I will seriously try and grasp the concept and hold onto it with my faculty of reason until reason decides to just let it go if at all.
whoopee

Men use innocent things to do their own bidding. God (rather he is real or is a concept is irrelevant) is merely watching as the said religion is being used for personal gain.

[Amit]

religion is nice until it leaves the confines of one's mind

oh hey here's a great example right above me

[McP3000]

religion is nice until it leaves the confines of one's mind

oh hey here's a great example right above me
oh hey i can troll too

here's an example of an arrogant pseudo-intellectual athiest above me

have a nice day

[tablespoonful]

whoopee

Men use innocent things to do their own bidding. God (rather he is real or is a concept is irrelevant) is merely watching as the said religion is being used for personal gain.

I agree, like I said it isn't God's fault, it's people's fault. Just like it isn't communism's fault for offing 100 million people, it's peoples fault. Just like it isn't the Law's fault for being a mentally oppressive panoptic structure, it's people's fault. So yeah maybe I'm not sure what you're saying.

[Amit]

oh hey i can troll too

here's an example of an arrogant pseudo-intellectual athiest above me

have a nice day

err except i'm not a pseudo-intellectual

nice try though!

[McP3000]

err except i'm not a pseudo-intellectual

nice try though!
oh

you're an actually intellectual

my bad :rolleyes:

[Aaron]

is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S

[1338 h4x0r]

oh hey i can troll too

here's an example of an arrogant pseudo-intellectual athiest above me

have a nice day

I'd say he was an example of the elite Royal Guard of Reason wearing a flaming sword from the lands of Pwn. Idk whether he's an atheist or not; hell, I'm a pantheist and I agree.

'atheist' btw

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

oh

you're an actually intellectual

my bad :rolleyes:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


dont you realize that believing in god and not believing in god is the same but with different words

like god isnt anything special so calm down and stop talking about him

[1338 h4x0r]

dont you realize that believing in god and not believing in god is the same but with different words


They're not the same but they're both beliefs.

If one means to stay out of religion altogether, be an agnostic.

[guitrguy]

whoopee

Men use innocent things to do their own bidding. God (rather he is real or is a concept is irrelevant) is merely watching as the said religion is being used for personal gain.

Its pretty relevant as its the justification for said religion.

[entheogen]

Politicians inject all kinds of meaning into all kinds of different things. I'm most personally amused by religion, that gets so convoluted with agendas wow how many people have died in the name of God.

no no. politicians don't inject meaning. in fact politicians are anti-meaning. politicians study the responses of the public to words like Pavlov would study responses of dogs to stimuli and then they trigger those voting reflexes at the appropriate time.

all they say are triggers for some kinds of responses that are desired of the public.

i remember when obama was talking about change and hillary about experience then hillary started losing and suddenly she was also talking about change ... apparently that was a point when the "change" trigger passed the "experience" trigger in its efficiency of producing proper response. and then like two weeks later romney also started talking about "change" ... then everybody started stealing the "washington is broken" line from each other

they constantly steal rhetoric from each other ... when edwards dropped out obama adopted half of his rhetoric to make sure he gets edwards' voters.

and the reason mccain is smiling recently is because he has taken the most absurd position on the war trying to appeal to those voters with the lowest IQ ... and it worked. he crunched his numbers right and the other candidates knew that voters are that dumb but apparently they just lacked the courage to say something so utterly stupid as a victory in iraq ... now romney is talking about victory too but it may be too late for him

another possibility is that people respond to idiocy like victory in iraq better when it comes out of the mouth of an idiot and not so well when it comes from a lawyer ?

[McP3000]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


dont you realize that believing in god and not believing in god is the same but with different words

like god isnt anything special so calm down and stop talking about him
what are you talking about

I'd say he was an example of the elite Royal Guard of Reason wearing a flaming sword from the lands of Pwn. Idk whether he's an atheist or not; hell, I'm a pantheist and I agree.

'atheist' btw
I often switch the i and the e. Ah well.

Its pretty relevant as its the justification for said religion.
No, they use religion as a justification for an action. They don't use an action as a justification for religion.

no no. politicians don't inject meaning. in fact politicians are anti-meaning. politicians study the responses of the public to words like Pavlov would study responses of dogs to stimuli and then they trigger those voting reflexes at the appropriate time.

all they say are triggers for some kinds of responses that are desired of the public.

i remember when obama was talking about change and hillary about experience then hillary started losing and suddenly she was also talking about change ... apparently that was a point when the "change" trigger passed the "experience" trigger in its efficiency of producing proper response. and then like two weeks later romney also started talking about "change" ... then romney also stole the "washington is broken line"

they constantly steal lines from each other ... when edwards dropped out obama adopted half of his rhetoric to make sure he gets edwards' voters.
You see thats why im not voting for any of the above assholes

[entheogen]

religion is nice until it leaves the confines of one's mind

thats a good point. when its confined to a mind its a belief. once you start to shove it down other peoples throats it becomes religion.

belief is necessary to exist, it is used to fight suicidal depression. religion is not necessary and is used to enslave.

[McP3000]

thats a good point. when its confined to a mind its a belief. once you start to shove it down other peoples throats it becomes religion.
No, it becomes indoctrination.
You can have religion and still keep it to yourself.

belief is necessary to exist, it is used to fight suicidal depression. religion is not necessary and is used to enslave.
I believe i need food to survive
i am enslaved by my religion of foodz

You people demonize religion like we're all knocking on your doors like girl scouts

[Amit]

No, it becomes indoctrination.
You can have religion and still keep it to yourself.

no that's called spirituality

religion is inherently based on sociality and community

[entheogen]

They're not the same but they're both beliefs.

If one means to stay out of religion altogether, be an agnostic.

agree 100%.

atheism is almost as arrogant as religion.

too many people like Bill Maher get carried away in their fascination with science without having a good idea about what science really is ...

in the end both religion and science are limited in the same thing - human intelligence. and while science makes better use of intelligence as a resource this resource is not infinite ... and for most people so limited that science for these people can do no more good than religion can.

people who are not Einstein have no more business talking about science than people who are not God have talking about religion

ironically Einstein seemed to have recognized that science is uncertain but Bill Maher *knows* what causes global warming even though he probably never passed physics in high school ...

[Amit]

science does infinitely more good than any religion has ever done

[entheogen]

I believe i need food to survive
i am enslaved by my religion of foodz

people don't get burned at the stake for refusing to eat ...

[entheogen]

No, it becomes indoctrination.

religion and indoctrination are very different

indoctrination is when you're told an arbitrary lie and you're expected to believe it for no reason at all

religion is when you're told an arbitrary lie and you're expected to believe it OR ELSE !

[entheogen]

no that's called spirituality

religion is inherently based on sociality and community

yes. religion is the institution of belief. belief does not need the institution but the institution needs the belief.

[Against Miik!]

So how does religion differ from say...democracy? I mean, they wars are fought over both, and they are both good ideas...in theory.

[entheogen]

science does infinitely more good than any religion has ever done

science and religion both do some good and some evil

the good to evil ratio for the two is not the same ... but it is also not the same for different religions ... i mean i don't often hear about Buddhist inquisition or Buddhist jihad ...

[Amit]

are you kidding me go look at buddhist conflicts in early china

[entheogen]

So how does religion differ from say...democracy? I mean, they wars are fought over both, and they are both good ideas...in theory.

there are wars fought over democracy ?

are you by any chance confusing democracy with ... OIL ?

[entheogen]

are you kidding me go look at buddhist conflicts in early china

ok, i am not aware of this part of history ... you can enlighten me if you want

but i can just as easily point out the evils of science

Zyklon B anybody ? or how about hydrogenated fat ?

[Amit]

that's not rly the evils of science more like the evils of power hungry men

[monkeysonmars.]

are you kidding me go look at buddhist conflicts in early china

lol

[entheogen]

that's not rly the evils of science more like the evils of power hungry men

Mark Twain said something like "never read health books - you will die of a misprint" ...

i WISH i had that wisdom before ... but many people will go into their graves never realizing this

[Against Miik!]

there are wars fought over democracy ?

are you by any chance confusing democracy with ... OIL ?

Well, yeah. Wars are fought in the name of democracy, just as they are fought in the name of religion.

So following that logic, there is nothing inherently wrong with religion, but rather intolerance in general.

[-1up!-]

Well, yeah. Wars are fought in the name of democracy, just as they are fought in the name of religion.

So following that logic, there is nothing inherently wrong with religion, but rather intolerance in general.

No wars are fought in the name of democracy for itself. Underlying interests such as territory or resources are always hidden somewhere beneath what political elites want to say to please the populace...

[tablespoonful]

no no. politicians don't inject meaning. in fact politicians are anti-meaning. politicians study the responses of the public to words like Pavlov would study responses of dogs to stimuli and then they trigger those voting reflexes at the appropriate time.

All I mean is that leaders in general often speak of their agendas as ordained by God, as God-approved, who is imbued with the values of the nation, so that the leader doesn't appear as a lone aggressor. And God has obviously been used to justify despotic powers. Then of course everyone thinks that God is on their side and that their ethos is righteous and so expansion and things becomes acceptable even more so. This can be done because God is such an abstraction that leaders can inject the God abstraction with their own contrived consciousnesses. Nobody knows what God wants and they never did because he never told anybody and never existed to tell anybody in the first place; and MCP3000 says God is innocent like he thinks for himself.

[Against Miik!]

No wars are fought in the name of democracy for itself. Underlying interests such as territory or resources are always hidden somewhere beneath what political elites want to say to please the populace...

So, are you disagreeing?

[tablespoonful]

I can't tell if anyone's disagreeing or agreeing on this forum because people keep using agreeable points as segways into their own special points they would like to make with a pseudo-argumentative tone that is highly confusing.

People should start prefixing their statements/arguments with "agreed" or "disagreed," that would make things easier.

[McP3000]

I can't tell if anyone's disagreeing or agreeing on this forum because people keep using agreeable points as segways into their own special points they would like to make with a pseudo-argumentative tone that is highly confusing.

People should start prefixing their statements/arguments with "agreed" or "disagreed," that would make things easier.
Grow a pair and read between the lines

[ringworm]

wouldnt the most misused word simply be extremists? or to be more exact, Bush's "war on terror" phrase?

[WhoDidTheElf]

wouldnt the most misused word simply be extremists? or to be more exact, Bush's "war on terror" phrase?

Islamic extremists actually.

[entheogen]

wouldnt the most misused word simply be extremists? or to be more exact, Bush's "war on terror" phrase?

words ... are a serious problem

words are like the skin on an issue and just like some would not look past the skin color most will not see past the words

on fox channel peace activists, human rights activists, 911 truth activists or anybody else who wishes to hold a peaceful demonstration are invariably called "anarchists" by the likes of geraldo.

i often wondered who are these "anarchists" that they always talk about ? turns out anarchists are anybody who may disagree with the current course taken by the government on a single issue ...

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

anarchy has too many rules they're hard to fit in with

[tablespoonful]

Grow a pair and read between the lines

Pardon