Mics and Mic Techniques.

[Motleyguy]

So I had this idea... Why don't I start a thread where we all discuss our favourite mics, mic techniques, and applications for the aforementioned mics and techniques. So here it is, the mic and mic techniques thread, where we shall discuss techniques and applications. I figure this could turn out to be a great resource for anyone looking for the best way to mic a particular instrument, or people just looking to try a new mic/technique. I'll start with a few.

Basic Mic Techniques


Kick Drum - AKG D112 inside the drum (provided it is ported). Also, a Sennheiser 421 outside the Reso head can also add some "Room Sound" and add to the sound.

Snare - Shure SM57, 1 - 2" from the top head, placed 1 - 2" from the rim, and a Shure SM57 1 - 2" from the bottom head, placed closer to the snares/center. Reverse the phase on the bottom mic. This can also be done with Shure Beta 57's or any combination of the 2. Try an SM57 on the top, and a Beta 57 on the bottom.

Toms - Audix D2 or D4 (Floor Tom) at the same distances as the snare mics. You can also add a second mic on the bottom head of the tom. Remember to reverse the phase. If you're going to add the second mic, it is very important that the drums are properly tuned, or else you arr just going to get a bunch of nasty overtones and problem frequencies.

Drum Overheads (Cymbals) - Any large or small diaphragm condenser mics will work, preferably a matched pair, at least a pair of the same mics. The mics should be in a cardioid pick up pattern, or else you are gonna have a huge amount of phase issues. There is a huge list of techniques that you can use here. I find the best is ORTF. Place the mics at a 110 degree angle (facing away from each other) at 7" between the front of the mics. This gives you a stereo image that isn't too narrow, but isn't going to leave you with a bunch of phase issues. Pan these Left and Right accordingly. Although, try to avoid hard panning if you can.

Hi Hat - Any small diaphragm condenser will work best. I prefer the Audio Technica 4051, in a cardioid pick up pattern. Place the mic about 3 - 5" from the top hi hat, near the edge. Hi Hats are the most common instrument (in the drum kit) to clip, so if you need to move the mic even further away, do so. Make sure the mic is at the edge of the top hat, if it's towards the center it picks up lots of wonky overtones.

Electric Guitar and Electric Bass Amps - A great techniques is one that has come to be known as the "Bob Rock" techniques. You place a Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser 421 at a 90 degree angle to each other. Each mic should be pointed at the spot that is the direct center between the edge of the speaker cone and the center of the speaker (use a flashlight or something to locate this spot behind the grille if necessary. You can also add a third mic to the rear of the amp if you want, make sure you reverse the phase of the rear mic. Audix D2 works well for this. On a bass cab, I use the same technique, but I use an AKG D112 or an Audix D4, as well as DI the bass. I find the blend between the D112 and the DI works really well.

Advanced/Alternative Techniques

Kick Tunnel: Essentially, taking relatively short baffle materials (preferably reflective) and building an extension around the kick drum. Set an omni mic roughly in the middle of the structure. This has two advantages. The first is that it gives a resonating structure to emphasize the kick. The second is that it isolates the kick mics to so you have a cleaner signal.

Pop Acoustic Guitar: One SDC (KM-184 is my preference) body-length away from (and aimed at) 14th fret, and a matching SDC over the shoulder pointed where the Bridge meets the body, level with guitarist's ear.

Fat Rock Snare: 57 on batter, SDC on snare bottom. Run these into 2 separate Mono channels, and EQ and gate them as normal. Don't forget to phase-flop the bottom snare. Now, put 3 compressors on snare top, each with a consecutivly larger ratio. Set to taste. Voila, the Chris Lord-Alge snare sound. To add real punch, find an UA 1176 emulation plugin (or actual hardware), and set it to Hard Limit (press in all the buttons), crank the output, and drop input to just above infinity gain. That's the Tom Lord-Alge snare sound (think: Post-Enema Blink 82 or any Greenday album). Add a snare sample to every hit on a seperate track. Blend them together.

Implied Harmonic Bass: On an upright bass or bass guitar, capture the output using a DI or mic on the amp as usual, but also point a spare or low-end mic at the fretboard about 4-6" away, in the vicinity of the players fingers. Try to avoid leakage from the body for acoustic instruments.

The idea here is to capture the sound of the fingers on the strings-squeaks, plucks, and slides- and mix this signal in with the regular bass tone at a low level. If a good balance is found, the definition of the bass can be dramatically increased without affecting the timbre of the instrument in a dramatic way.

Epic Vox: Have the singer use a relatively warm mic, roughly 4-24" away by taste. Put a brighter mic about 10' away, normally cardioid. Put another brighter mic about 15-20' away, according to taste. Gate the 10' mic, such that it only passes audio when the singer is at 2/3 max volume. Put a separate gate on the farthest mic, such that it only passes audio when the singer is at 85+% max volume.

"Glyn Johns" Drum Mic Setup: This technique uses 4 microphones placed around the kit. It's fast to setup, and sounds great, provided the room you're recording in has a fairly decent sound. The 4 mics in this technique are set up as follows:

1: (Over) A cardioid mic (panned left) placed approx. 4 - 6" above the floor tom facing the hi hat across the snare.

2: (Over) A cardioid mic (panned right) approx 2 - 3' above the kit, pointing downwards, facing between the toms and snare.

3: A mic on the top of the snare drum, use one of the techniques mentioned here if you'd like.

4: A mic on the kick drum, use one of the techniques mentioned here if you'd like.

The overhead mics work best if they are large diaphragm condensors. You can also add room mics, a bottom snare mic (phase reversed of course) or 2nd kick mic if you'd like.

Stereo Techniques

Coincident: Also known as XY. Coincident is a fairly simple set up. Take two mics with a cardioid polar pattern, either dynamic or condensor, and place the capsules at a 90 degree angle. In order to keep the mics equidistant from the source, place on mic on top of the other. If you're using side firing Large Diaphragm Condensors, hang one mic above the other, with the tops of each mic almost touching, that way there will be equal distance between the capsules. Cardioid produces a very narrow stereo image, so it doesn't work the greatest for things like drum overheads. This technique can be useful in micing acoustic guitars (near the 12th fret is where I like it), as well it is a good technique for room mics. This technique is useful where a stereo track is needed, but necessarily a featured track in the mix.

Near Coincident: Similar to coincident. Two Cardioid mics placed with the capsules at a 90 degree angle. With this technique however, place the capsules 8" apart. This technique gives a fairly moderate stereo image.

Blumlein: Blumlein is a coincident or XY stereo technique, therefore, it is set up identically to a coincident technique. The difference is that the mics are set in a bi-directional polar pattern. This allows for pickup of the direct source, as wel as reverberations picked up from the back of the microphone. This technique provides a very uniform spread of natural reverb throughout the two tracks. It also provides very accurate localization. I find this technique works phenomenally well on acoustic guitars, providing a rich direct sound, with great natural reverb (depending on the room). It is also well suited for recording an orchestra.

Faulkner: Two bi directional microphones placed parallel with a 20 cm (7.9") space between them. The mics should each be equidistant from the source, with the center of the sound source running directly down the middle "line" of the space between the mics. This technique works well placed at ear height, rather than raised higher above the sound source, and can also be placed a significant distance from the source.

O.R.T.F.: Two cardioid microphones placed 7" apart with the capsules at a 110 degree angle. I find this provides the best overall sound source localization, accuracy and stereo image of all the common stereo mic techniques. It also provides plenty of ambient warmth to the sound. I prefer it as a drum overhead technique to any of the others mentioned here, and is the most commonly used stereo micing technique used for drum overheads.

Spaced Pair Omni's: Place two large diaphragm condensor mics ,set in an omni directional polar pattern, parallel and 10" apart. Naturally, due to the omni polar pattern this stereo technique will provide lots of resonance and room sound, and well as a fairly large stereo image.

Spaced Pair Cardioids: Place to cardioid mics parallel and 3' apart. This will provide you with a very wide stereo image, but can also cause some nasty phase issues due to the large space between the two mics. So make sure to implement the 3:1 rule, which states that each seperate mic must be 3 times the distance from the sound source as the original mic. This technique is often used on drums for overhead micing.

As you can all see, I've added the techniques you guys have posted here in the first thread, and will continue to do so on a regular basis.

[Seafroggys]

I haven't really tried any unconventional techniques, most of the stuff I do is standard. For bass drums I use ever so slight muffling and put the D112 right up to the batter head, about an inch away and about two inches offset from where the beater strikes. Gives a great sound.

[Motleyguy]

I figured we could use this as more of a resource, help those who need it. Also, anybody who tries some cool new techniques could talk about them. But I'm gonna add to this over the next few days to make it sort of a resource. Could actually be cool if it got stickied, so if you wish to assist me in my goal, that'd be cool. I can just add 'em to the first post.

[ZapatoDiablo]

I like the M/S technique for acoustic guitars. I have an SM81 as the Mid mic and a Rode NT2-A in figure 8 pattern as the two sides. I set them up about a foot away from where the fretboard meets the body, then sum it up in Cubase. It works well for me because I like to be able to adjust the stereo width in the mix.

[Seafroggys]

One thing I want to try with an acoustic guitar is a 3 mic setup.

Have one of my RODE NT2-A (a condensor mic) placed right at the sound hole, maybe an inch or two away. A dynamic mic, in my case an Audix i5, will be placed on the neck, and my second NT2-A will be back aways, probably 4-5 feet. Use the distant mic as the overal mic, bring up the Audix for more fret noise and the other RODE for more warmth.

Still have to try this though.

[Moseph]

So wait, is the point of this thread to provide a set of standard plug-and-chug templates, or to provide insight into less orthodox mic techniques?

[fuzzyhair]

So wait, is the point of this thread to provide a set of standard plug-and-chug templates, or to provide insight into less orthodox mic techniques?

I think it's just to discuss what you like to do and present ideas to others.

[Motleyguy]

So wait, is the point of this thread to provide a set of standard plug-and-chug templates, or to provide insight into less orthodox mic techniques?

A little bit of both. I'm gonna add a list of the basic "plug and chug" techniques at the front, and then we can also use the thread to discuss more unorthodox techniques.

[Motleyguy]

I like the M/S technique for acoustic guitars.

Yeah, M/S works great for acoustic guitar, you get a great room sound, as well as a good direct sound of the guitar. I also like Blumlein for acoustic guitar. Two Bi Directional Condensors, set at a 90 degree angle (same setup as coincident).

One thing I want to try with an acoustic guitar is a 3 mic setup.

Have one of my RODE NT2-A (a condensor mic) placed right at the sound hole, maybe an inch or two away. A dynamic mic, in my case an Audix i5, will be placed on the neck, and my second NT2-A will be back aways, probably 4-5 feet. Use the distant mic as the overal mic, bring up the Audix for more fret noise and the other RODE for more warmth.

Still have to try this though.

Could work out nicely. Kind of like a spaced pair on the guitar, and a distant condensor. The dynamic might work well for picking up the fretboard, I don't know, I've never even thought to try a dynamic mic on an acoustic guitar. Let me know how it works out.

[The Chemist]

I use ORTF on Acoustics. 2 AKG 451s, 75-roll, no pad.

Drums...

Bass Drum: I use an AKG D-112, set in center of shell mixed with a 421 on shell side in very center (in the middle between batter and Reso, but off to the side of the D-112) and a Blue Ball set outside the drum on the batter side, facing where the pedal hits the head.

Snare: The a-typical SM-57 on batter. But, I run this through an HHB Radium 50 Pre and a UA-1176 compressor, so It has a fat sound. For batter, I use an Oktava 012 SDC, with a 10-pad.

Toms: I use the "legendary" 421, set 2 notches from M-setting. Trust me, it works.

Overheads: ORTF, with AKG 451s. 75-roll, 20-pad.

Electric guitars: I use 3 SM-57s: 1 on grille off center from cone (where the round thing in the cone meets the surface), 1 12" back from same spot, and last one 36" from same spot. I also use an AKG-414ULS set back cabinet width from the cabinet, set on Fig-8, no rolls, but a 10-pad.

Bass: DI'd, and 1 57 on tweeter and a 421 on woofer.

Voice: Depends on the person really, except for all mics are set omni, with no rolls or pads.

[Motleyguy]

I use ORTF on Acoustics. 2 AKG 451s, 75-roll, no pad.

Drums...

Bass Drum: I use an AKG D-112, set in center of shell mixed with a 421 on shell side in very center (in the middle between batter and Reso, but off to the side of the D-112) and a Blue Ball set outside the drum on the batter side, facing where the pedal hits the head.

Snare: The a-typical SM-57 on batter. But, I run this through an HHB Radium 50 Pre and a UA-1176 compressor, so It has a fat sound. For batter, I use an Oktava 012 SDC, with a 10-pad.

Toms: I use the "legendary" 421, set 2 notches from M-setting. Trust me, it works.

Overheads: ORTF, with AKG 451s. 75-roll, 20-pad.

Electric guitars: I use 3 SM-57s: 1 on grille off center from cone (where the round thing in the cone meets the surface), 1 12" back from same spot, and last one 36" from same spot. I also use an AKG-414ULS set back cabinet width from the cabinet, set on Fig-8, no rolls, but a 10-pad.

Bass: DI'd, and 1 57 on tweeter and a 421 on woofer.

Voice: Depends on the person really, except for all mics are set omni, with no rolls or pads.

I tried ORTF on acoustics, didn't like the sound as much as I do if I use Blumlein or M/S. 421 on toms is interesting as well, as well as on bass. I like to use a D112 on the bass cab, blended with a DI sound, tends to come out quite nice. Another trick with bass I tried once was to throw the amp in a corner (facing the corner) and stick a RODE NT-K on it. It actually came out sounding fairly decent. It was a really tight bass sound.

[Moseph]

Surprised nobody mentioned this yet with all the emphasis on drums:

Kick Tunnel: Essentially, taking relatively short baffle materials (preferably reflective) and building an extension around the kick drum. Set an omni mic roughly in the middle of the structure. This has two advantages. The first is that it gives a resonating structure to emphasize the kick. The second is that it isolates the kick mics to so you have a cleaner signal.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

I'm definetely trying that guitar/bass amp thing next time I record.

[Motleyguy]

I'm definetely trying that guitar/bass amp thing next time I record.

Which one?

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

Which one?

bob rock thingy :thumb:

[Motleyguy]

bob rock thingy :thumb:

It does yield some good results. It's a good technique, but the guitar tone has to be good in the first place, and then you need to blend them properly. I recommend blending the 2 signals in a bus and recording them to 1 track.

[Seafroggys]

Omni on vocals? I don't think I should do that with my crappy "tracking" room (if you can call it that) I'll stick with Cardoid for now :P

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

It does yield some good results. It's a good technique, but the guitar tone has to be good in the first place, and then you need to blend them properly. I recommend blending the 2 signals in a bus and recording them to 1 track.


Yeah by the next time my band records I will hopefully have this years bday/christmas present. Which is going to be an amp with a 3 thousand dollar price cap. So i'm gonna be trying every tube amp i can in the next 7 -8 months.

[Motleyguy]

Yeah by the next time my band records I will hopefully have this years bday/christmas present. Which is going to be an amp with a 3 thousand dollar price cap. So i'm gonna be trying every tube amp i can in the next 7 -8 months.

Yeah, solid state blows. Not to get off topic, but Fender Twin Reverbs sound great, depending on your style. Great clean tone, and with an Ibanez Tube Screamer, great distortion.

[Motleyguy]

Omni on vocals? I don't think I should do that with my crappy "tracking" room (if you can call it that) I'll stick with Cardoid for now :P

Put some blankets up, and deaden your tracking room. Blankets, mattresses, whatever works. Acoustics shouldn't really effect vocal tracking, as you want as dead a room as possible. So forget about the acoustics, deaden the room (make a little booth/fort), and all will be wonderful.

[Fraggy]

Yeah, solid state blows. Not to get off topic, but Fender Twin Reverbs sound great, depending on your style. Great clean tone, and with an Ibanez Tube Screamer, great distortion.

eh... Randal V2s aren't bad dude, don't go dissing all SS amps... granted the V2 has a tube pre amp but even still the SS channel isn't all bad.
www.myspace.com/fullchamberrouletteau
my band and one of the guitars is using a Krankenstein (me) and the other is using a Randall V2, and for leads (center panned stuff) and the solo in dance to die for we used a Marshall DSL 2000.

I like randall, just takes a while to tune and get working right. if you are a nub who trns your gain to 11 and has a massive V scoop then good luck to ya on any amp.

[Motleyguy]

eh... Randal V2s aren't bad dude, don't go dissing all SS amps... granted the V2 has a tube pre amp but even still the SS channel isn't all bad.
www.myspace.com/fullchamberrouletteau
my band and one of the guitars is using a Krankenstein (me) and the other is using a Randall V2, and for leads (center panned stuff) and the solo in dance to die for we used a Marshall DSL 2000.

I like randall, just takes a while to tune and get working right. if you are a nub who trns your gain to 11 and has a massive V scoop then good luck to ya on any amp.


Yeah, I've done some work trying to record solid state, it works alright for metal, if you work it right, and you have the right cab, but for anything else it's useless. I'm really more into tube amps, it's just easier to get a good sound.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

Yeah, I've done some work trying to record solid state, it works alright for metal, if you work it right, and you have the right cab, but for anything else it's useless. I'm really more into tube amps, it's just easier to get a good sound.

Yeah, with my amp distortion it gives only ALOT of distortion and its too saturated I guess would be the word. I use a distortion pedal instead of it. When I get the tube amp i'll probally fool around with everything till i get a sick tone.

[Moseph]

...if you work it right...

This is true of anything in media production. That's why it's called "engineering" and not "stupid by-the-numbers crap that any asshole can do"

Getting back on track:

Epic Vox: Have the singer use a relatively warm mic, roughly 4-24" away by taste. Put a brighter mic about 10' away, normally cardioid. Put another brighter mic about 15-20' away, according to taste. Gate the 10' mic, such that it only passes audio when the singer is at 2/3 max volume. Put a separate gate on the farthest mic, such that it only passes audio when the singer is at 85+% max volume.

[Seafroggys]

I think Phil Collins did something like that.....maybe somebody else.

[Moseph]

I think Phil Collins did something like that.....maybe somebody else.


I know it was used by both Eno and Bowie.

[The Chemist]

Pop Acoustic:
One SDC (KM-184 is my preference) body-length away from (and aimed at) 14th fret, and a matching SDC over the shoulder pointed where the Bridge meets the body, level with guitarist's ear.

I also recommend reading this:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/articles/recacgtr0801.asp

[Motleyguy]

Pop Acoustic:
One SDC (KM-184 is my preference) body-length away from (and aimed at) 14th fret, and a matching SDC over the shoulder pointed where the Bridge meets the body, level with guitarist's ear.

I also recommend reading this:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/articles/recacgtr0801.asp

Seems like it could be a bit phasey, but I might try it out sometime. What sort of sound does it yeild. Pop is fairly broad, anything more specific?

[Fraggy]

so what are some good mics to buy when you first start your 'studio'.

We have a few but what are some standard mics for:

Guitar amps (421/57 right?)
Bass (when not DI'ing)
Vocals (58? what about condensers)
Bass Drum
Snare
Toms

and how are cymbals recorded? thats always confused me...

[Seafroggys]

cymbals are covered by the overheads.

as for your questions:

Guitar Amps: Shure SM57 or Sennheiser e609
Bass: AKG D112
Vocals: Neumann u87 :D
Bass Drum: Audix D6, AKG D112, etc.
Snare: SM57, Audix i5
Toms: Audix D2, Audix D4 for floors

[Fraggy]

whats teh difference in sounds between the i5 and the 57, and the d6 and the d112?

[Fraggy]

u87... yeh... sick... just let me get 2000 out of loose coins.

what about some no so expensive vocal mics?

[Seafroggys]

The D112 is more of a flat, 'classic' sound, whereas the D6 has scooped mids. The D6 is for the most part a bass drum only mic, from what I've read it doesn't work as well on bass cabs, where the D112 can work on both quite well.

the i5 is similar, it has a more scooped frequency response as well.

[Motleyguy]

so what are some good mics to buy when you first start your 'studio'.

We have a few but what are some standard mics for:

Guitar amps (421/57 right?)
Bass (when not DI'ing)
Vocals (58? what about condensers)
Bass Drum
Snare
Toms

and how are cymbals recorded? thats always confused me...

Guitar Amps - Sennheiser 421 and an SM57 work well together

Bass - AKG D112

Vocals - For a less expensive, decent sounding large diaphragm condenser, try some of the Apex mics. The Apex 450 is good, so is the Apex 460 (it's a tube mic, so it's a bit more expensive.). The RODE NT series is good aswell, but fairly expensive. I like the RODE NT - K (it also sounds decent on bass cabs.)

Kick Drum - AKG D112 is my first choice. The Sennheiser 421 is also a kick drum mic by design. Personally, I'm not really a fan of the Audix D4 or D6 on the kick. You can also use an SM57 on the batter side of the head, for more attack in your sound.

Snare - Shure SM57 or Shure Beta 57.

Toms - Audix D2, D4. Sennheiser 603. Sennheiser 421 are all good choices.

Cymbals - Mic'd as overheads, so you'd want a matched pair of condensers. Small diaphragm condensers work well, as they pick up more high frequency. Try Audio Technica 451's (also works well as a hi hat mic).

A note about the Sennheiser 421. It's a very versatile mic, it has 5 different settings on it, so it's good for everything from Electric Guitar, Toms and Kick Drum.

u87... yeh... sick... just let me get 2000 out of loose coins.

what about some no so expensive vocal mics?

The U 87 is somewhat of a one trick pony, and doesn't necessarily sound great with every singers voice. Try one of the ones I suggested in this post. Another great Neumann mic that I like is the TLM 103, but again, fairly expensive. If you're just starting out, I suggest the Apex large diaphragm condensers. Their shock mounts are great too, nice and sturdy.

[The Chemist]

Try Audio Technica 451's (also works well as a hi hat mic).

You mean AKG.

[Motleyguy]

You mean AKG.

Nope, Audio Technica. Similar to the AT 4050. I missed the zero. It's the AT 4051, not 451. My bad.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/198fc1e1b1ff2c2f/index.html

[The Chemist]

Ah yes, the Poor-Man's Schoeps.

[Motleyguy]

Shoeps?

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

For guitar amps/vocals/drums. What room type is best for each to record? Hall, big open room, small crowded room, bathroom. Also you could add it to the first post =P.

[Motleyguy]

For recording vocals, you want a room that is as dead as it possibly can be. Use blankets, pillows, mattresses, anything really to achieve this. Or if you have the money, build your own iso booth, using acoustic foam and what not.

For recording guitar, you preferably want a room that is fairly live, and has a nice room sound. People have recorded guitar in many places, like bathrooms and hallways. Just find a room that sounds good. If you can', again, try and deaden the room. It's better to have no room sound than a really ugly room sound. So avoid using room mics aswell unless the room sounds good.

For recording drums, you definitely want a good room. A nice, big, live room makes all the difference. If the room sound is good, you can put up a stereo pair of room mics, just to add some nice ambience. Of course, if the room sound isn't very good, don't bother with room mics.

[The Chemist]

FYI everybody, the MD421 is actually a Radio Broadcast mic by design. Used as a DJ speech mic on-air.

[The Chemist]

BTW:

Fat Rock Snare: 57 on batter, SDC on snare bottom. Run these into 2 separate Mono channels, and EQ and gate them as normal. Don't forget to phase-flop the bottom snare. Now, put 3 compressors on snare top, each with a consecutivly larger ratio. Set to taste. Voila, the Chris Lord-Alge snare sound. To add real punch, find an UA 1176 emulation plugin (or actual hardware), and set it to Hard Limit (press in all the buttons), crank the output, and drop input to just above infinity gain. That's the Tom Lord-Alge snare sound (think: Post-Enema Blink 82 or any Greenday album). Add a snare sample to every hit on a seperate track. Blend them together.

[Motleyguy]

I love that trick man, use it alot.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

For recording vocals, you want a room that is as dead as it possibly can be. Use blankets, pillows, mattresses, anything really to achieve this. Or if you have the money, build your own iso booth, using acoustic foam and what not.

For recording guitar, you preferably want a room that is fairly live, and has a nice room sound. People have recorded guitar in many places, like bathrooms and hallways. Just find a room that sounds good. If you can', again, try and deaden the room. It's better to have no room sound than a really ugly room sound. So avoid using room mics aswell unless the room sounds good.

For recording drums, you definitely want a good room. A nice, big, live room makes all the difference. If the room sound is good, you can put up a stereo pair of room mics, just to add some nice ambience. Of course, if the room sound isn't very good, don't bother with room mics.


Basically for drums the choice is between a small semi crowded carpeted computer room, or a big open hardwood floor room.

For guitar its hallway, closet, bathroom, bedroom that is very crowded with clothes and such everywhere.

Vocals, could i hang a blanket on the corner of a room, then hang another behind me. So i'm closed inside a small area of blankets.

So for drums/guitar which would be the best just from that description?

[Motleyguy]

For guitar and drums, try the choices out, see which one sounds the best, and use it. For vocals, make it as dead as possible, so blankets should work.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

For guitar and drums, try the choices out, see which one sounds the best, and use it. For vocals, make it as dead as possible, so blankets should work.

Well with drums, moving a drumset around your house is NOT easy. But I guess I could grab a snare and go from room to room and test that.

[Motleyguy]

Well with drums, moving a drumset around your house is NOT easy. But I guess I could grab a snare and go from room to room and test that.

I know, I'm a drummer. I'd start with the hardwood room, provided it's shape isn't all wonky, it could have some nice sound.

[Happy_Squirrel]

Hey mods - any chance we can sticky this?

[The Chemist]

Hey mods - any chance we can sticky this?
Jam Session has no mods. If there was one, I'd suggest Moseph.

[Motleyguy]

it would be a good call to sticky it. Anybody know a mod who could do that. That was kind of my idea in the beginning. It's just a good resource, and saves us having to answer questions about mics constantly.

[Moseph]

it would be a good call to sticky it. Anybody know a mod who could do that. That was kind of my idea in the beginning. It's just a good resource, and saves us having to answer questions about mics constantly.

I know that Wish and Det_Nosnip (I believe he's a mod, anyway) wander through here fairly regularly. On rare occasions, we also get Aes820.

However, in all fairness, there's just not a lot of objective information here just yet. While I think this thread is a great idea that's completely in-line with the spirit of the Jam Session, if you were to trim the fat (including this post and the one quoted), you'd have maybe a page and a half of info and discussion. I think if we keep it near the top of the page for awhile (say, a solid month) with constant contributions and direct discussion, then it's more likely to be stickied.

[Moseph]

Implied Harmonic Bass: On an upright bass or bass guitar, capture the output using a DI or mic on the amp as usual, but also point a spare or low-end mic at the fretboard about 4-6" away, in the vicinity of the players fingers. Try to avoid leakage from the body for acoustic instruments.

The idea here is to capture the sound of the fingers on the strings-squeaks, plucks, and slides- and mix this signal in with the regular bass tone at a low level. If a good balance is found, the definition of the bass can be dramatically increased without affecting the timbre of the instrument in a dramatic way.

[Motleyguy]

I'm adding all mic technique ideas you've all posted to the first post, and will continue to do so as more pop up.

[Motleyguy]

Hey guys, just bringing this thread back, since there's been a few mic questions lately. I'm also going to add some stereo techniques to the front post in the next few days.

[Motleyguy]

I'm going into the studio this weekend to work on the guitar overdubs for my bands new demo. Anybody got some different or unconventional micing techniques for guitar amps that might lead to some very cool sounds?

Oh and if you guys who've got some experience with this stuff want to keep adding to this, I'll put 'em all up in the front, then when there's enough, create another thread that won't have all the random conversation, just very concise, and we can add further to that if necessary. It'll be easier to get it stickied that way, and with enough decent information, I think it will make a great resource.

[Moseph]

Just read about this in a magazine or book something a few weeks ago, thought it was neat but haven't tried it:

Acoustic Leslie Effect: Start with an adjustable-speed box fan, but remove the chassis, exposing the fan blades and motor component. Mount the fan blades onto a boomless mic stand, and then mount a series of equally spaced microphone clips onto opposite fans.

Place two wireless cardiod mics in a pair of clips equidistant from the center of the fan blades. Use foam windscreen pop filters on each, and send the signals to separate channels on the wireless receiver (ie, make a stereo pair). Turn the fan on to create a pseudo-Leslie effect on any sound source that you don't want to alter by running it through an amp for the effect (I read about this being done for an acoustic guitar). Use the fan speed and distance from center to adjust the parmeters of the Leslie-type effect.

[Seafroggys]

That's actually pretty sweet. One day I should try that.

[Motleyguy]

That's a cool trick. Luckily, I'm gonna have a real Leslie at my disposal this weekend, so I'm probably gonna put it to some use, possibly run a 12 string through it.

[Moseph]

That's a cool trick. Luckily, I'm gonna have a real Leslie at my disposal this weekend, so I'm probably gonna put it to some use, possibly run a 12 string through it.

If I recall correctly, the article said that they had a Leslie on hand, but they didn't want to use it because they were using an acoustic guitar, and running it through any sort of amplifier (including the Leslie) was giving them a timbral change they didn't want.

[Motleyguy]

Yeah, that makes sense. I used re amped an acoustic guitar through a Leslie on slow speed a while ago, wasn't too fond of the results, as the amp does flavor the sound.

[The Chemist]

Try bypassing the amp, and using a Re-Amping Amp, with the Leslie cones hooked up to the Re-Amping amp.

[Moseph]

Try bypassing the amp, and using a Re-Amping Amp, with the Leslie cones hooked up to the Re-Amping amp.


I think I explained the idea poorly. From what I remember reading, it wasn't that they didn't like that amp for acoustic guitar, it's that they didn't want any amp for acoustic guitar. They something along the lines of once you amplify it, you've moved away from the natural timbre of the instrument. If I can remember where I read it, I might try to dig up a quote (probably TapeOp or a promo copy of Mix from last Fall).

[Motleyguy]

just givin' this a little bump so you new guys can check it out.

[Aaron]

Thanks for this mate. I read through the whole thread and it's got my head spinning with ideas. Specific question though; best technique for recording a Hammond Organ [output sadly is damaged] using external micing? Can I use a pair of cardoids? What would you suggest?

[Motleyguy]

Running the hammond through the Lesley speaker? Honestly off the top of my head I couldn't tell you, I've only ever mic'd a Lesley speaker once or twice, but I'd definitely try stereo mic'ing it.

[Aaron]

Yeah it's got the Lesley internally in the body of the hammond [the speaker is in front of your legs when you sit down, under the keyboard]. Bit of a tricky one, I know, especially with the Lesley...

[Seafroggys]

I would say XY mic a Leslie. I've never done it before, but you'd get the Leslie effect while having a stereo field at the same time.

Weird that the leslie is built into the hammond.

[Aaron]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_organ#B-3_.2F_C-3_.2F_A-100_series
A-100.

Will let you guys knew the results of XY.

[Ksama]

Since nobody answered my question in the other thread about mics,

Anyone ever heard of a Realistic Highball mic? I googled and it seems they are a cheapo brand from Radioshack but the mic I have seems to be nicer than the ones i saw. Anyone know of a good highball model or something that i could possibly have, and if its an alternative to a shure sm58? I got it for free from a friend.

Sorry if its a dumb question, but i'm kinda new to this stuff

[Seafroggys]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_organ#B-3_.2F_C-3_.2F_A-100_series
A-100.

Will let you guys knew the results of XY.

Man, I want to plug a B3 into my Music Man amp....that would be pretty badass.

[Moseph]

Man there's a studio closing and they're liquidating their gear via craigslist.

Less than $1500 would get me:

2 Shure SM81's ($400 for two)
3 Sennheiser MD421's ($625 for three)
1 Electro-Voice RE20 ($275)
1 AKG D112 ($125)

The RE20 and D112 aren't great deals, but they're definitely good and comparable to what you would hope for on CL. The SM81's and MD421's might be once-in-a-decade type deals. I'm GAS'ing pretty bad on this one.

[pikester]

I love all those Mics. That's all I'm going to say on this one.

[Seafroggys]

Man, the RE20 is a mic I'd like to get (that or an SM7b), and of course MD421's and another D112 would be awesome, then I can mic up toms and a double bass drum!

[Aaron]

Man there's a studio closing and they're liquidating their gear via craigslist.

Less than $1500 would get me:

2 Shure SM81's ($400 for two)
3 Sennheiser MD421's ($625 for three)
1 Electro-Voice RE20 ($275)
1 AKG D112 ($125)

The RE20 and D112 aren't great deals, but they're definitely good and comparable to what you would hope for on CL. The SM81's and MD421's might be once-in-a-decade type deals. I'm GAS'ing pretty bad on this one.
If only I didn't have two mortgages... I have bad GAS.

What are you guys' thoughts on the Audio Technica AE2500;
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/4359efa46266c7e9/index.html

[pikester]

What are you guys' thoughts on the Audio Technica AE2500;
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/4359efa46266c7e9/index.html

It seems like a cool idea, but I've never used one. I'd be interested in giving it a try.

[Aaron]

Yeah. If nothing else, it's good to see some experimentation is still going on by the major companies. I for one can't wait for them to start producing lower-cost, yet reliable, large sized ribbon-mics that I can use for overheads on kits.

[El Calle Gato]

Man there's a studio closing and they're liquidating their gear via craigslist.

Less than $1500 would get me:

2 Shure SM81's ($400 for two)
3 Sennheiser MD421's ($625 for three)
1 Electro-Voice RE20 ($275)
1 AKG D112 ($125)

The RE20 and D112 aren't great deals, but they're definitely good and comparable to what you would hope for on CL. The SM81's and MD421's might be once-in-a-decade type deals. I'm GAS'ing pretty bad on this one.

yo Mo, buy one of those MD421s for me, if nothing else, and ill pay you for it or whatever. or tell me where this place is so i can grab some **** mself.

[Moseph]

yo Mo, buy one of those MD421s for me, if nothing else, and ill pay you for it or whatever. or tell me where this place is so i can grab some **** mself.

No can do. Assuming they don't get sold to somebody else first, I'm picking them all up this weekend (assuming they're in good working condition).

[Aaron]

Nice! Got any older mics you want to sell off ?

[El Calle Gato]

Nice! Got any older mics you want to sell off ?

word

[Aaron]

Actually, you can just buy me this:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Neumann-U87-Original_W0QQitemZ250335183559QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1 5198QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


mmmmm

[Moseph]

Nice! Got any older mics you want to sell off ?

word


Nothing worth the cost of shipping. I still haven't sealed the deal yet, the seller has been very open about first-come-first-serve.

Regardless, I'm still keeping my locker intact, since I always try to purchase mics that I know will have long-term utility.

The only mic that I probably will have minimal use for after this purchase is the PG52; it's part of the Shure PG drum pack and will retain greater value when kept with the other 5.

The Behringer XM8500's and Peavey AE40M's have also gone more or less by the wayside, but those are essentially worthless on the used market, and I do occassionally find a use for them. You could purchase those for cheaper than I could sell them to you.

[Aaron]

Well if you ever want to get rid of the PG52, post here. hehe. Now about that U87..

More on topic; have any of your guys used speakers as mics, a la the Yamaha Subkick? I know it can be done, but was wondering what the results are like.

[Motleyguy]

Yamaha NS - 10 speaker cone makes a pretty good "sub" or whatever. It's a good flavour "mic", adds a lot of decent low end to the kick sound.

[Seafroggys]

I've always wanted to do the speaker trick, but I don't really have the speakers to do it effectively. Should get a massive 15" speaker and try it on me bass drum.

[Aaron]

I was thinking of trying with a smaller speaker for vocal stuff. Like headphones even. How would I go about this?

[Seafroggys]

Just plug your headphone into your preamp.

A headphone may not be strong enough for vocals.

[Moseph]

In case anyone was curious as to what happened:

http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/a1b3a574342e2821c96a944960ac793d4g.jpg


And if anybody is interested in the whole locker...

http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/af6e91141d41814141d2a44ceba584484g.jpg


http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/34033d38670decd729ae8b567a752a654g.jpg

Because, really, who wants to have a lot of gear if you can't show it off to anonymous people on the Internet?

[Seafroggys]

Hmmm my microphone collection isn't as impressive, but next time I take down my drum mics I should show it off.

[Aaron]

Mine is shameful, but it gets results.

[Motleyguy]

Because, really, who wants to have a lot of gear if you can't show it off to anonymous people on the Internet?

lawl. That's fantastic.

[Seafroggys]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/seafroggys/PC150006.jpg

My mic locker, roughly ordered in cost (though some things are out of place)

Top row: Two RODE NT2-a LDC's, Cascade Fat Man II Ribbon Mic (w/ third party transformers), AKG D112 Dyanmic

Bottom Row: Audix i5 dynamic, Two Shure SM57 dynamics, Sennheiser e609 dynamic, Naiant XT SDC

[Moseph]

[picture removed
My mic locker, roughly ordered in cost (though some things are out of place)

Top row: Two RODE NT2-a LDC's, Cascade Fat Man II Ribbon Mic (w/ third party transformers), AKG D112 Dyanmic

Bottom Row: Audix i5 dynamic, Two Shure SM57 dynamics, Sennheiser e609 dynamic, Naiant XT SDC

Nice. A lot less chaff than mine for sure. Have you ever done side-by-side comparisons between the SM57 and the i5? Do you have samples showing sonic differences?

EDIT:

Hmmm my microphone collection isn't as impressive, but next time I take down my drum mics I should show it off.

I just caught this. It's safer in the long-term to properly store your mics when not in use. If you do leave your mics in place when not in use, be sure to cover them with plastic bags or something similar to keep out dust. Dirt and moisture can corrode/degrade your mic diaphragms and connections just like anything else. Wouldn't want to have to pay for expensive repairs/replacements, right?

[Seafroggys]

Yeah I know about taking down mics. I took them down because of the ****ing freeze we're getting....the only mics I leave up are usually my drum mics, everything else (ESPECIALLY my ribbon) I always take down. Its a habit I need to get into more for sure, but I do it on occasion.

I have never done any serious ABing of the i5 and 57. I have read that the i5 is a little more scooped in the mids than the 57. I have heard someone else's AB test on a guitar cab, the difference was quite minimal to my ears.

Both great mics, I'm using the i5 as my snare mic right now.

[Motleyguy]

Just do what I do when I have mics set up on my kit... I leave the stands up and the cables run, just pull the mics themselves off the stands and put 'em in their cases. Only takes about 30 seconds, and is very logical, especially when hanging LDC's as OH's.

Oh, and question for Moseph... How do like those Behringer DI boxes? The Ultra G's?
(Those are Behringer aren't they).

[Moseph]

Oh, and question for Moseph... How do like those Behringer DI boxes? The Ultra G's?
(Those are Behringer aren't they).

If they were lost/stolen, I'd probably replace them with the same product. Like all Behringer gear, the GI-100 is feature-rich and inexpensive, but unlike most other stuff in the product line, it's pretty transparent and all the bits/pieces seem to work pretty well (on mine anyway).

The pads and ground lift do what you'd expect, and the 4x12 emulation sounds like a shelving filter array to me. It doesn't sound great with bass because it tends to re-emphasis some noise in the mid frequencies, but I've used it with distorted guitar from an amp modeler and gotten pretty good results. It also sounds to me like the 4x12 circuit is true bypass, so I usually leave it off (i.e., there's no reason to get the DI-100 instead of the GI-100). The feature that I think I like best about it compared to the Directors is that you can get a signal split between amp and mixer because the outputs are concurrent. The Directors are toggle-switched in that regard.

I generally use the Directors because of the convenience of a passive DI over a relatively long mic cable, but I have zero qualms about using any of my DI's in a project (provided I have phantom power available, which I pretty much always do with my gear).

[Aaron]

Yeah I was going to ask the same. I manage our setup at my church [16 line mixer, multimedia & projector] and need to buy a few more DIs. Worth the extra few dollars than the generic ones?

[Motleyguy]

Good to know. I'm not generally a fan of Behringer gear, I was just curious. When I invest in a DI, I'll probably go big and get a Radial JDI or something like that.

[TriggerNYC]

i use an ART Tube MP Studio as a DI. do you recommend picking up a behringer di for here and there?

mostly, what does the DI offer i cant do with my preamp? speaker cabinet emulation? seeing as i dont usually rely on effects in my recordings (maybe some here and there, but mostly guitar > amp) how would i use that 4x12 emulator thing? would i plug the output of my amp head into the input of the DI box? im assuming that would blow it out.

im guessing you would use something like a line6 pod > DI > computer. let me know what exactly it is you do, bc id love to be able to record at 3am silently, but if i have to buy a POD and stuff to do it, meh, idk if its worth it.

[Seafroggys]

i use an ART Tube MP Studio as a DI. do you recommend picking up a behringer di for here and there?

You want crap to replace crap?

In all seriousness, look at Radial. I only have experience with a Reamper of theirs, but its amazing quality.

[TriggerNYC]

You want crap to replace crap?

In all seriousness, look at Radial. I only have experience with a Reamper of theirs, but its amazing quality.

i like the art preamp. its not great but i like it. i ams still unfamiliar with the whole DI thing. do i plug my guitar directly into it, or effects frst, or can i plug my amp into it, etc etc.

[Seafroggys]

plugging your amp into a DI removes the point of having a DI.

DI stands for direct injection. It allows you to take instrumental level signals and bring them to line level.

[pikester]

There are plenty of situations where I go through a DI and into an amp. Mostly with recording bass, or my friend's Rhodes (yum). Not so much for guitars though.

Also, DI Boxes take an instrument signal and impedance match them to Mic Level, not raise them to line level. That's why the output is an XLR.

[Seafroggys]

There are plenty of situations where I go through a DI and into an amp.

I said amp into DI.

Also, DI Boxes take an instrument signal and impedance match them to Mic Level, not raise them to line level. That's why the output is an XLR.

That could be, I'm sure there are multiple types. Just because its XLR does not mean its microphone level.

[TriggerNYC]

plugging your amp into a DI removes the point of having a DI.



what i mean is, can i use my amps tube distortion and stuff, without having to use the cabinet, which is loud and wakes people up when they are sleeping. im guessing thats not what a DI is for.

so in order o get dirty guitar tones, id have to use either plug-ins or effects before the DI, i cant use my amp. idk, sounds kinda pointless (for me) until i get some kind of pod or vamp or something. which i might do if i could find it used.

[pikester]

Your amp probably has a Line out that you could use for that. Really the only way you're going to get decent tone is if you Mic an Amp, although there are a number of things that are designed to emulate micing an amp with software. I know Native Instruments makes something called Guitar Rig which is probably expensive and probably pretty good (just because NI makes it, i've never tried it).

[TriggerNYC]

Your amp probably has a Line out that you could use for that. Really the only way you're going to get decent tone is if you Mic an Amp

i agree, but for example, ts 130am right now, i wont get to bed for at least 4 more hours, and everyone in my house is asleep. id like to record with headphones and jsut get something "usable" just for ideas. not for demos and ****.

i also dont like paying the high prices for software. id rather get hardware units.

[Motleyguy]

As far as amp sims go, there's one out there called Seven. Don't know who makes it, but I know it was used exclusively on the latest Crue album, and they got some sick tones.

[Aaron]

http://i44.tinypic.com/33fc043.jpg

Just cause I'm bored and am avoiding sleep, I did a quick diagram of what I'll eventually build.

Key points:

12 foot ceilings, ceilings 50% - 70% covered in Auralex foam [removable panels].
Timber floors, rolls of carpet at the ready.
Room-within-a-room construction. Insulation and pockets of air as sound-traps.
Movable baffles for separation for vocals and things.
Top Left is a tracking/mixing room, glass window for communication[curtain to cover].
Red space is set for setting up guitars, keyboards, cabs, etc.
Green space is for vocals and misc stuff thats more flexible.
Drums are on a 4ft riser, with storage under them.
Blue space for over-flow area, stuff that'll be used but needs to be out of the way.
Yellow space so that you can move around and not get yelled at.
All marked out with coloured duct-tape, nice and pretty.

[Moseph]

That could be, I'm sure there are multiple types. Just because its XLR does not mean its microphone level.

Absolutely every single DI box I've used or even seen has at minimum the feature that it performs impedence matching between instrument level and mic level signals. So far as I'm aware, that's the primary purpose of DI boxes.

what i mean is, can i use my amps tube distortion and stuff, without having to use the cabinet, which is loud and wakes people up when they are sleeping. im guessing thats not what a DI is for.

Yes, that's one common usage of a DI box, provided you have a preamp output or instrument level effects loop output (line level outputs probably won't need a DI device). You'll still want some way to model a cabinet (you'll be recording the raw distortion of the amplifier circuit). Many guitar amps are flexible in this regard: the only real considerations you'll need to make are (1) will your amp speakers output anything when your signal is tapped, and (2) do you have an output from your amp that isn't from the power amp section (powered outputs are bad news for recording)?

[lwatkins]

Hey.

I got a Shure PG57 for Xmas.

Is it any good do we think???

[Motleyguy]

I believe it's a lower end version of the SM57, not familiar with it though.

[Motleyguy]

Just cause I'm bored and am avoiding sleep, I did a quick diagram of what I'll eventually build.

Key points:

12 foot ceilings, ceilings 50% - 70% covered in Auralex foam [removable panels].
Timber floors, rolls of carpet at the ready.
Room-within-a-room construction. Insulation and pockets of air as sound-traps.
Movable baffles for separation for vocals and things.
Top Left is a tracking/mixing room, glass window for communication[curtain to cover].
Red space is set for setting up guitars, keyboards, cabs, etc.
Green space is for vocals and misc stuff thats more flexible.
Drums are on a 4ft riser, with storage under them.
Blue space for over-flow area, stuff that'll be used but needs to be out of the way.
Yellow space so that you can move around and not get yelled at.
All marked out with coloured duct-tape, nice and pretty.


What are the dimensions dude? I'd make the instrument/drum room one big room, design it properly (acoustically) and you'd have an awesome room for drums & beds. Use the "vocal" room for overdubs and what not.

[Aaron]

The idea is a rehearsal space with a room within in for mixing, and treat the whole thing so it's a closed environment. I think with auralex on the roof and baffles you could make it pretty sweet sounding depending on needs. Aim is for a stand alone three-car garage, remove the roller-door and brick it up basically.

Do you think it'd effect it wierdly to have the entire ceiling space as foam?

[The Chemist]

Aaron, I think you may want to reconsiter a few things about that:

Celeing: If you'll have 12 foot ceilings, only cover 30-40% max with treatment (and Don't use foam, use Panels). You'll want some reflection.

2nd: Don't isolate your room. Set up an instrument where it sounds best, not where space allows. Leave it as a massive empty tracking room, which gets me to

3rd: Don't put drums against a wal. Pull them out into the middle of the room, but keep them on a riser. You'll get bass tilt if they where against a wall.

4th: Look at the shape/layout of the tracking room again.

[Motleyguy]

Aaron, I think you may want to reconsiter a few things about that:

Celeing: If you'll have 12 foot ceilings, only cover 30-40% max with treatment (and Don't use foam, use Panels). You'll want some reflection.

2nd: Don't isolate your room. Set up an instrument where it sounds best, not where space allows. Leave it as a massive empty tracking room, which gets me to

3rd: Don't put drums against a wal. Pull them out into the middle of the room, but keep them on a riser. You'll get bass tilt if they where against a wall.

4th: Look at the shape/layout of the tracking room again.

Yeah, one large room with maybe a small isobooth that could double as a mic locker (throw a shelf in it or something). Don't waste a room with 12 foot ceilings man.

[Seafroggys]

mmmmm 12 foot ceilings.

Also, if you already have a cement floor, I wouldn't bother putting hard wood down. Cement is becoming more and more popular in some high end studios, it has similar acoustic qualities to hardwood. Due to hardwood's cost, may as well save that money up. If you don't have cement, then just get hardwood.

And yeah, don't deaden the room up.

[Knifeboy]

I might be looking for a cheap condenser mic for recording an acoustic. Any suggestions? What's the best bang for yer buck

[Seafroggys]

Naiant XM (or is it the XT?)

[Knifeboy]

i just searched a couple of danish music shopwebsites and there's no naiant anything on any of them

[TriggerNYC]

check out avant ck-1. its a fantastic mic, pretty cheap (less than $200 usd) and comes with three diff capsules. great on acoustic guitar.

if you go to frontendaudio.com tuesdays testers and check out SDC mics, they test out the ck1, and imo it sounds better than every other mic they have.

[Aaron]

Aaron, I think you may want to reconsiter a few things about that:

Celeing: If you'll have 12 foot ceilings, only cover 30-40% max with treatment (and Don't use foam, use Panels). You'll want some reflection.

2nd: Don't isolate your room. Set up an instrument where it sounds best, not where space allows. Leave it as a massive empty tracking room, which gets me to

3rd: Don't put drums against a wal. Pull them out into the middle of the room, but keep them on a riser. You'll get bass tilt if they where against a wall.

4th: Look at the shape/layout of the tracking room again.
Yeah I know what you mean; I don't want a dry room, just something that is somewhat EQed so its easy to work with off the bat. I thought with higher ceilings that you'd need to increase the coverage a bit though. I've only used foam sparingly [and wanted panels of foam I can remove, not timber panels]. The drums were just there for reference/scale.

What you mean by layout of the tracking room? I basically want something I can put a desk, computer and rack stuff in and two people can sit in away from instruments.

Yeah, one large room with maybe a small isobooth that could double as a mic locker (throw a shelf in it or something). Don't waste a room with 12 foot ceilings man.

What's wrong with higher ceilings? Here most places are build with 12-foot as standard so it's what I'm used to [especially with tuning drums].

mmmmm 12 foot ceilings.

Also, if you already have a cement floor, I wouldn't bother putting hard wood down. Cement is becoming more and more popular in some high end studios, it has similar acoustic qualities to hardwood. Due to hardwood's cost, may as well save that money up. If you don't have cement, then just get hardwood.

And yeah, don't deaden the room up.
That's a good point. I'll keep that in mind. I'm in the market for a new house [apartment is full of stacks of drums and equipment and I'm quicky running out of space] and on the list of requirements is, ideally, a 2/3 car garage that is stand alone that I can convert into a studio.

-----

i just searched a couple of danish music shopwebsites and there's no naiant anything on any of them

http://www.naiant.com/

[Motleyguy]

Yeah I know what you mean; I don't want a dry room, just something that is somewhat EQed so its easy to work with off the bat. I thought with higher ceilings that you'd need to increase the coverage a bit though. I've only used foam sparingly [and wanted panels of foam I can remove, not timber panels]. The drums were just there for reference/scale.

What you mean by layout of the tracking room? I basically want something I can put a desk, computer and rack stuff in and two people can sit in away from instruments.



What's wrong with higher ceilings? Here most places are build with 12-foot as standard so it's what I'm used to [especially with tuning drums].


That's a good point. I'll keep that in mind. I'm in the market for a new house [apartment is full of stacks of drums and equipment and I'm quicky running out of space] and on the list of requirements is, ideally, a 2/3 car garage that is stand alone that I can convert into a studio.

-----



http://www.naiant.com/

Nothing wrong with 12 foot ceilings, they're fantastic, so don't waste that perk by making a couple of smaller rooms... make a nice big, open live room.

[Knifeboy]

Quick question, how do I record a trumpet? I only have 2 dynamic mics to play with: Shure Beta 58A and a Shure sm58

[Seafroggys]

Hmmm, horns sound best through a Ribbon mic :p

between those two, I think the Beta 58 would be better, they have a little higher frequency response than the standard 58s if I recall.

[Knifeboy]

Turned out if I just played directly into the Beta 58 and slapped on some reverb, that it sounded pretty damned good.

What's a ribbon mic?

[Seafroggys]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_microphone

[Aaron]

I'm hoping that ribbon mics will continue their resurgance and as a result will come down in price. I'm dying to buy one or two. Fingers crossed eh?

[Seafroggys]

You need a strong preamp for them. I've read that Firepods/Firestudios aren't enough. I only use them (or, rather, will, since I haven't actually recorded anything with them yet aside from test demos) on guitar amps, so there really isn't an issue. But for like, say, a cello, you'll need a lot of gain.

That being said, I have the Cascade Fat Head II with a modded transformer. Excellent. It does use some Chinese materials but it is assembled in America, so it has good quality control, and still pretty damn cheap (the Fathead I is less than $200, the Fat Head II with the after-market transformer was only $350).

[Moseph]

I'm not generally a fan of ribbon mics on principle. It mostly has to do with the fact that I run a mobile rig: I need stuff to be durable and resilient more than sonically excellent.

Though once upon a time I was privy to a dual-capture of a clarinet using both an AKG 414 and a RCA BX44. It was pretty crazy in the difference. That RCA just made the clarinet dark and vibrant. The 414 sound very neutral in comparison, almost boring.

We later did something similar with a trumpet, except the mics were the RCA and a U87. That was a pretty interesting one, since both sounded really good, but in completely different ways. The RCA was mellowed out and very warm, whereas the U87 was very sharp and airy/breathy. It almost sounded like two different trumpet players.

[Seafroggys]

yeah Ribbons are very warm, I have heard people say they are the most natural sounding mics. Most schools of thoughts say that wind instruments pretty much sound best universally with ribbon mics, and to a lesser extent strings. Some people like them as a distant guitar mic (instead of the traditional condensor) or as drum overheads. Occasionally they are used on voice, but that is rare, and a pop filter IS a must, or else you'll break the ribbon :p

[Motleyguy]

Ribbon mic on guitar amp = win.

[TriggerNYC]

also do NOT use phantom power with ribbon mics. turn that **** off.

[Knifeboy]

I'll be buying a Rode NT1A tomorrow, it seems to have gotten a lot of amazing reviews and it fits my budget perfectly

So I'll have the Rode and the shure sm58 and beta 58a to record acoustic guitar, I'm thinking I might as well ignore the shure's and just set up the Rode aimed at the 14th fret and mix it with the DI feed from the acoustic, or does anyone have a better idea?

[Motleyguy]

I'll be buying a Rode NT1A tomorrow, it seems to have gotten a lot of amazing reviews and it fits my budget perfectly

So I'll have the Rode and the shure sm58 and beta 58a to record acoustic guitar, I'm thinking I might as well ignore the shure's and just set up the Rode aimed at the 14th fret and mix it with the DI feed from the acoustic, or does anyone have a better idea?

Ignore the 14th fret and move the mic around until you find the sweet spot. But feel free to base your search around the 12 - 14th fret area. Try right around the sound hole too, a bit more bassy, but can sometimes be equally delicious.

also do NOT use phantom power with ribbon mics. turn that **** off.

I am sooooooo hoping you didn't discover this the hard way.

[Seafroggys]

The NT1a is one of the most popular inexpensive LDC's that isn't a "cheap" make/model. I have used it a little bit, my guitarist has one, a little too 'silky' compared to the NT2-a, plus doesn't have the polarity switch. Its decent though.

[Knifeboy]

Ignore the 14th fret and move the mic around until you find the sweet spot. But feel free to base your search around the 12 - 14th fret area. Try right around the sound hole too, a bit more bassy, but can sometimes be equally delicious.

Yeah, I was planning on experimenting a bit, but am I right in thinking the dynamic mics probably* won't add much good to the sound?

*probably being the key word here, I mean, I'll never know until I try!

[TriggerNYC]

Ignore the 14th fret and move the mic around until you find the sweet spot. But feel free to base your search around the 12 - 14th fret area. Try right around the sound hole too, a bit more bassy, but can sometimes be equally delicious.
good point



I am sooooooo hoping you didn't discover this the hard way.

i didnt. but a kid i went to school with did. thats why there is a 48v on/off switch jackass.

[Aaron]

:lol: ouch

[Motleyguy]

Yeah I once watch a kid blow out a tube mic with phantom power... there's a reason the ****in thing has it's own power supply, it clearly doesn't need anymore.

[Aaron]

More power = more volume!! lol. Some people should not be allowed near gear.
I got asked once what sound a DI makes. :/

[TriggerNYC]

.........but this amp goes to 11.

the best is trying to xplain to someone you are recording that what they hear is not what themic hears. guitarists (mostlymetal heads and hardcore chuggers) are always like "these are my EQ settings, why would i change them for recording. it sounds great as is" and i reply "bc thats not how it works" and theysay "well why dont you just put a micin the room and itll sound like that" and i say "again chuckles thats not how it works" and they say "i play brootahl metuhlz djent chugga chugga dont youtell me geek"

and then i slapthem with my dick and tea bag their shitty line6 ubermetal pods and emg ibanezs.

if it was as easyas slapping anyold mic anywhere near the amp it wouldnt be called "engineering"
and im not even a real engineer. just a hobbyist slash a/e school drop-out

[Seafroggys]

The problem most guitarists have is they get their 'perfect tone' soloed, by themselves. Add in a bass or even another guitar, and things get real muddy, real quick. This really shows up on recordings more than anything.

Turn down the bass, and let the bass guitar actually do the work.

[Aaron]

Also guitarists, as their gear is so complex for them on a normal day, become arrogant when they find the sound they want and don't want to have to go through the ordeal, even though they have to no matter what.

[Moseph]

Speaking from (bad) experience, you guys are better off letting them think they have their tone and trying to capture it cleanly using the mics. Power struggles and tone arguments make recording sessions go downhill fast.

Let them get "their" sound, then use that as your starting point. A good engineer doesn't need to worry too much about if "their" sound is the "right" sound. They'll find a way to make it work.

[Aaron]

I guess because this has become the Audio-Arena Community thread [mostly by my offtopic rambles] I'll post this here:

http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_build_personal_studio/

Worth a read if you've got half-hour spare. A tidbit:

(Insider's secret: the OM2 employs the same capsule as the more expensive Audix D-2 "tom mic.")

[Seafroggys]

Speaking from (bad) experience, you guys are better off letting them think they have their tone and trying to capture it cleanly using the mics. Power struggles and tone arguments make recording sessions go downhill fast.

Let them get "their" sound, then use that as your starting point. A good engineer doesn't need to worry too much about if "their" sound is the "right" sound. They'll find a way to make it work.

Yeah, I know others on the homerecording bbs would use this trick, show the guitarist, and often times realize how much their 'sound' stinks. Records don't lie.

If all else fails, hi-pass :D

[TriggerNYC]

(Insider's secret: the OM2 employs the same capsule as the more expensive Audix D-2 "tom mic.")

wait WHAT. are they similar i nthe way a 57 and 58 are similar? u just blew my mind.

how do we also feel about inexpensive kick/bass mics?

btw, i have no patience for "working" with bad sound, bc at the end of the day when there is nothing else i can do to make a recording sound better, its my fault. and **** that. bc if i tell them to change, and they do and they are upset, and then it sounds great, then its all smiles.

i finish wars.

[Aaron]

OM2 and D2 are both Audix made mics. The OM2 a dynamic vocal mic, where the D2 is a dynamic tom mic. So yeah, basically in the way the 57 and 58 are. The OM2 is priced at $96US, where the D2 is priced at $219 [both list price].

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i try to turn the mic on cause usually when its off it doesnt work well

[Moseph]

how do we also feel about inexpensive kick/bass mics?

How inexpensive? I've got a Audio-Technica PRO25, Shure PG52, and AKG D112.

The A-T isn't all that great for kick drum but was all I could afford at the time (probably about 4 years ago). I do like it for toms & baritone-range brass. I used it on the body position of an upright bass but switched it out for an MXL 990 and liked the results better. I've occassionally used it as a secondary bass amp mic, but I generally DI bass guitar.

The PG52 was my goto kick mic until very recently. It's solid, but is very low-end biased. It also doesn't have quite the SPL handling capabilities of the D112.


btw, i have no patience for "working" with bad sound, bc at the end of the day when there is nothing else i can do to make a recording sound better, its my fault. and **** that. bc if i tell them to change, and they do and they are upset, and then it sounds great, then its all smiles.

Well, good luck with that. When I'm paid to engineer a session, I'm not worried about what I think sounds good: I'm worried about what the client thinks sounds good. The method Seafroggys metioned, where you record the guitar briefly and have them listen on playback is pretty much standard operating procedure for me. Only about 50% of the guitarists I've worked with have changed their mind after hearing the recording of it. If you know your mic locker and work on your placements, you can get a worthwhile facsimile of "their" sound almost every time in a reasonable room.

The engineer's job is to facilitate, not to dictate.

[Motleyguy]

Well, good luck with that. When I'm paid to engineer a session, I'm not worried about what I think sounds good: I'm worried about what the client thinks sounds good. The method Seafroggys metioned, where you record the guitar briefly and have them listen on playback is pretty much standard operating procedure for me. Only about 50% of the guitarists I've worked with have changed their mind after hearing the recording of it. If you know your mic locker and work on your placements, you can get a worthwhile facsimile of "their" sound almost every time in a reasonable room.

The engineer's job is to facilitate, not to dictate.


This! This is the mentality an engineer needs to have. Moseph is right, it's not your job to dictate, or else they'd be calling you a producer, and you'd probably be making a fair amount more money.

[TriggerNYC]

i didnt mean what I think sounds good. i meant that what the guitar player hears from is amp sometimes (mostly) isnt what youll hear on the recordings. i usually do what froggy does and record a little and show them. but im not going to just say "yes yes yes" and then when im done with an EP and it doesnt sound like what they wanted they can point at me and say im awful and wasted their time.

i politely point out that to get the sound they hear out of the amp onto a recording, we need to make some changes. usually this involves lowering the gain (and achieving 'heaviness' through mult-tracking) and adjustments to the eq. having a bloke come in with the gain on 10 the bass on 8 mids on 0 and treble on 5 really doesnt translate well to recording.

but i figured us all being engineers (professional or amateur) that i could safely bitch about people not understanding that im working for them to get what they want. not working for me to get what i want. i guess i should just bottle up my frustrations.....

and to motley guy, i do most of my work out of my basement. the other i do in peoples dorm rooms, garages, living rooms, etc etc. with local projects. im not a professional. so i guess you could say im also the producer. i doubt id make more money either way. i dont really do it for the money. i do it for fun.

OM2 and D2 are both Audix made mics. The OM2 a dynamic vocal mic, where the D2 is a dynamic tom mic. So yeah, basically in the way the 57 and 58 are. The OM2 is priced at $96US, where the D2 is priced at $219 [both list price].
u sure u mean the D2 and not the i5? also, would you recommend the d2 then. what about for bass cabs and kick drums.

moseph, would you recommend the d112 or beta52 for bass and kick drum micing? i can only really afford one, and id like to squeeze two uses out of it. i prefer micing bass cabs to DI work, i feel i get more rumble.

[Moseph]

moseph, would you recommend the d112 or beta52 for bass and kick drum micing? i can only really afford one, and id like to squeeze two uses out of it. i prefer micing bass cabs to DI work, i feel i get more rumble.

Crap, I mis-typed. My goto mic was the PG52, not the Beta 52. I've fixed the post.

However, I've done pretty extensive work with the Beta 52 as well (it just wasn't in my personal collection). The Beta 52 is more geared toward the lower end stuff, whereas the D112 has more low-mids.

The Beta 52 gets more of a "thud/whump" sound, while the D112 can be boomier. I'd be more inclined to use the D112 on bass amps and jazz kicks, but the Beta 52 on heavier rock style kick drums.

[Aaron]

I like the Audix D6 the most for kicks, followed by the 52a.

[Seafroggys]

I have little experience with the D6 and the Beta 52. I purchased the D112 because it was the most 'classic' sounding bass mic (enhanced low mids, as opposed to the 52's uber bass or the D6's scooped mids) and its fairly versatile. I also plan on getting another one sometime in the future, and I may get a D6 just to have that extra versatility. Plus I like Audix, they're a local company :)

[Aaron]

They're one of those companies I've heard consistently positive things about in relation to everything, from pricing to performance to support. I don't own a dedicated bass-drum mic, but have used the D6 a fair bit, and intend to buy one when I buy my new kit.

[TriggerNYC]

The Beta 52 gets more of a "thud/whump" sound, while the D112 can be boomier. I'd be more inclined to use the D112 on bass amps and jazz kicks, but the Beta 52 on heavier rock style kick drums.

awesome post. i think ill go take a look at the pg52 (the cheap beta) and see whats up. and then ill pick up the d112 and d6 and see what i like better.
-fyi this WOULD be for rock type drums (think tommy lee) and bass.

edit: quick shoot out. audix f14 vs d6? pg52 vs beta52a? nady (yes nady) dm-90 vs d112. sennheiser e902 vs e602II.

and any info on the sennheiser e901? half-cardiod design, i dont even know what that means. no stand needed jsut throw it on top of a pillow. weird.

[Moseph]

pg52 vs beta52a?

The Beta is more sensitive and handles higher SPL's (if I recall correctly). I wouldn't worry about maxing out either mic.

The Beta also got a more pronounced peak in the mid's, which gives a stronger "click" on the attack for the bass drum. Based on the spec, it looks like it's more susceptible to proximity effect, but I've never mic'd a kick where the mic wasn't right on top of the drum, so it's sort of a specious assessment.



half-cardiod design, i dont even know what that means. no stand needed jsut throw it on top of a pillow. weird.

It means that the primary pickup face (the "front") of the mic is designed like a cardiod element, whereas the secondary pickup face (the "back") of the mic relies on vibrations of solids, rather than air rarefaction, like a boundary mic. In this case (and in the other cases I've seen), the vibration is intended to be the floor/pillow/whatever.

The Shure Beta 91 is another example:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-Beta-91-Bass-Drum-Microphone?sku=270283

I think the half-cardiod thing is kind of gimmicky myself. I've only ever used the Beta 91. It's a nice aux mic when you're low on stands and have very specific requirements (i.e., the inside of a kick drum), but for general purpose it's ill-suited.

[TriggerNYC]

good looks.

also,while we here, while this mayb a strupid question, i only have two inputs on my interface. formicing drums (was gonna gowith 4 mics)would yousuggest

a) getting a small 4-ch mixer and running the four mics out stereo into the intereface (obv i wouldnt be able to make eq adjustments to individual tracks im just saying for roughdemos)

b) using two mics at a time on the interface (2 ovrheads, then snare and kick) and syncing them up via cubase

c) just going with two overheads.

d) getting a brand new interface with at least 4 inputs (id rather not)

[Aaron]

I'd save and get a bigger interface like the Motu 8Pre or Presonus Firebox [or whatever it's called now]. You'll thank yourself in the long run. Take it from someone using a mixer and USB interface, it's a painful and unreliable way to do it.

[TriggerNYC]

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-KBM412-Bass-Kick-Drum-Microphone?sku=270774

kick/bass mic? thoughts?

also, anyone know a cheaper alternative to an SM7? obv not anything near as good, but something i nthe area for less than 3 bills. i say a youtube vid and jon bon jovi was using this mic, and i know its great and all, but i liked the way he sounded and i kinda sound like him, so i was thinking since i kinda sound like he does, but not as good, is there a mic that kinda sounds like this one, but not as good haha.

[Moseph]

good looks.

also,while we here, while this mayb a strupid question, i only have two inputs on my interface. formicing drums (was gonna gowith 4 mics)would yousuggest

a) getting a small 4-ch mixer and running the four mics out stereo into the intereface (obv i wouldnt be able to make eq adjustments to individual tracks im just saying for roughdemos)

b) using two mics at a time on the interface (2 ovrheads, then snare and kick) and syncing them up via cubase

c) just going with two overheads.

d) getting a brand new interface with at least 4 inputs (id rather not)

Oddly enough I've tried all of these methods. Here's what I've found:

(a) This is a pretty good "middle of the road" option, since you can probably find a 4-8 channel mixer for less money than a 4-8 channel interface (though that price gap is getting smaller). If you're willing to put in the effort up front, you can commit to the drum mix ahead of time (which you'll need to do) and still be pleased with the results in the end. This, however, is way less fun than having discrete control later, and you lose the direct ability to tweak the sounds. If you're clever, you can use filtering and alternative routing techniques to "fake" some aspects of it, but it's not as powerful as having discrete control.

(b) Good luck with that. I tried it exactly twice, once using a rigid click with the performers, and once using the playback of the first take. Neither time did the performance come out particularly good. It is of no small note that I was recording an ensemble piece, where the various parts weren't all one instrument (i.e., drums). They did however have sections where the performers had to "interact" with each other, and those sections never came out right. I would say this is your definite "don't" on the list.

(c) This is the least expensive option, but isn't a terrible idea. It has many of the same problems as (a), with the added issue that you'll likely want more emphasis in the kick and snare. If money is more important than results, I'd stick with this until I could get more/better mics/inputs.

(d) This is the most expensive option, and probably the best long-term solution, since you'll have more versatility in everything. If results are more important than money, I'd definitely go this route and find your self a good interface. I'd also be inclined to wait on the 4-input and get at least 8 inputs. Not for drums per se, but the price difference is generally small enough to justify it when you want to expand your options later.

[TriggerNYC]

im gonan go with option a, prob for now, bc i can get a small mixer very inexpensively of craigslist.

i just bought my tascam sometime during the summer, or end of summer, so i cant erally justify dropping $300 on an e-mu 1820 right now. that was what i was going to do down the line further, bc i didnt plan on recording drums, but recently it has come into light i might have to record drums a lot earlier than i had thought. so now im kinda kicking myself i just didnt go big from the beginning but whatever.

got any inputs on those mics?

[Motleyguy]

So, as many of you know, my computer got stolen a few months back, along with my iLok USB dongle. I still haven't re installed my pro tools software or regained my licenses, simply because it seems like a hassle. But, recently I've been considering whether or not I'm going to pay for an upgrade on the pro tools system (can't seem to find out if there's LE 7.3 drivers for Leopard, but I doubt it), or whether I'm going to pick up a Pre Sonus box and switch to Cubase as my DAW. I've been looking into it a bit, and the Pre Sonus boxes seem hella solid. Of course my snag being that I love the Pro Tools software so god damn much.

Anybody here use a Pre Sonus box? Reviews? Comments?

[Seafroggys]

I have a Firestudio. While many people have weird issues with them (such as faulty units) I have had 0 problems and have been almost 100% happy with mine, even with the original drivers (the new drivers seem a bit iffy to me). You can't go wrong, and Cubase LE is great.

[Motleyguy]

i do like the ability to rock VST. I'd probably make money too, if I sold my Digi unit and the pro tools ****. The Firestudio has 26 I/O right?

[Tripp_chaos]

Not a big fan of Cubase though then again I use Fl and not alot of people seem to be a fan with that, as for Presonus I haven't had a single problem with them or there gear I own a few piece (2 inspires bought one two days later buddies brother gave me his, hp60 won this in a poker game, Faderport bought this online, etc...) Personally I think most of the neg rep is somewhere located in the same realm of people... "I has good tone thru mic in on my computar"

[Moseph]

So, as many of you know, my computer got stolen a few months back, along with my iLok USB dongle. I still haven't re installed my pro tools software or regained my licenses, simply because it seems like a hassle. But, recently I've been considering whether or not I'm going to pay for an upgrade on the pro tools system (can't seem to find out if there's LE 7.3 drivers for Leopard, but I doubt it), or whether I'm going to pick up a Pre Sonus box and switch to Cubase as my DAW. I've been looking into it a bit, and the Pre Sonus boxes seem hella solid. Of course my snag being that I love the Pro Tools software so god damn much.

Anybody here use a Pre Sonus box? Reviews? Comments?

I have a Firestudio. While many people have weird issues with them (such as faulty units) I have had 0 problems and have been almost 100% happy with mine, even with the original drivers (the new drivers seem a bit iffy to me). You can't go wrong, and Cubase LE is great.

I actually just picked up a Firestudio. I'm currently running at 18 channels, and hopefully will be at 26 before the end of the month (believe it or not, the snag is the difficulty in finding BNC clock cables).

I was initially worried about the Firestudio because the DSP chips controlling Firewire operation are reportedly not particularly robust and have trouble operating with some computers. However, I generally found that TI chipsets in the Firewire port would improve this situation. I happened to have a PCMCIA Firewire port with a TI chipset (all the Adaptec stuff apparently uses it), and I haven't had any major meltdowns yet (other than the sync issue).

Driver-wise, it looks pretty good to me on Windows XP SP3 (1.8 Ghz Pentium M processor, 1 GB RAM, internal hard drive @ 5400rpm running OS/software, external USB 2.0 hard drive @ 7200rpm handling audio files).

i do like the ability to rock VST. I'd probably make money too, if I sold my Digi unit and the pro tools ****. The Firestudio has 26 I/O right?

You need to expand to get 26. It has 8 native analog ins (all Neutrik combo connectors with pres). It does have 10 native analog outs (line level).

You can use devices with S/PDIF I/O to get an additional two channels (all sampling rates) in both directions.

You can then do up to 16 channels of ADAT Lightpipe I/O at 44.1kHz or 48kHz sampling rates, or 8 more if you want 88.2kHz or 96kHz (it uses S/MUX ADAT Lightpipe to get around the bandwidth limitations). I'd rather have the extra inputs, so I intend to stay in the lower sampling rates. I generally work in 44.1kHz anyway.

At the moment, I've successfully stressed tested the 18-channel situation, and have found that all 26 channels work without issue (I moved the clock signal around). The Firestudio was in charge of the the clock the entire time.

[Aaron]

Today is a new day; I've started my fund for recording-gear/drum-gear. I'm determined to build a completely moveable studio rig, build into rack-unit cases. It will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

[Tripp_chaos]

Today is a new day; I've started my fund for recording-gear/drum-gear. I'm determined to build a completely moveable studio rig, build into rack-unit cases. It will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

Your not the only one I also have chosen to start my mobile-studio fund... So I hope it works for you because I know my own lack of motivation and such...

[Seafroggys]

My mobile studio is already well on its way. I just need to expand my Firestudio for another 8 inputs, buy several more mics (the expensive part will be the four 421's, and maybe a high end condenser) in addition to some nice preamps.

[Moseph]

Mobile Studio Tips
(01) Determine the minimum amount of rackspace you need. Add 2-4U. Buy a rack that size. Make sure it can fit in the vehicle you'll use to keep everything mobile.

(02) Use labels, gaff/painters tape, paint markers, etc. to make sure everything that you move from place to place is easily identified as yours. This is particularly important for things that your clients might have multiple of, like mic cables, mic stands, and headphones.

(03) Get a medium-sized tacklebox and use it to store all your adapters, patch cables, small tools, cable ties, and spare parts. Never goto a gig without that tacklebox.

(04) Get a good power conditioner and install it into your rack. There is a ton of crappy power outlets out there waiting to fry your gear. A good power conditioner will be 1U large and will double as a power strip and light source.

[Aaron]

Thankyou kind sir! My idea is a digital studio with a laptop permamently assigned to it for editing [even to the extend of customing the casing so it's installed in the top most rack space]. Bare minimum, what would you include, excluding computer and mics, in a $2000US budget? I don't want a whole bunch of exciters etc that I'll never use so... KISS.

[Seafroggys]

Are you planning on doing a commercial studio? You won't get business on a $2000 budget, sadly. The key to being commercial is to be flexible. If you are recording your own projects, you know exactly what you want and that's all you have to get, but you also have to get things you may not personally use but other clients might want to have. I never use flangers or chorus effects, but they're popular and other people may request their use.

For example, my original 'studio' cost about $3000, and I got a computer, an 8 channel interface, and 4 good mics. I could record my drums with this, but what if a client had a 6-8 piece heavy metal set that required the toms to be miked? I could use some of these mics for other purposes (my SM57 and Rode mic for miking guitar cabs) but what if they wanted to do things live, and not overdub? What if you didn't like your snare mic on a guitar cab?

[Aaron]

It's for non-commercial use to the extend where if I do get paid for projects it'll be two or three a year due to time constraints, but not just my own projects. This is my list, let me know if you think I'm missing anything:

*Laptop [which I have; 2.4 Ghz Duo, 4G, 512mb, 160Gig Drive]
500G External Drive
Motu 828/8Pre
New audio card
Juno-G Synth WorkStation
Pair of monitors that wont kill the budget
*AKG K66 Cans [I have]
This: http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/Studio_Elite_8.shtml

* these I have.
The Audix mic pack I'll buy with my next bonus.

[TriggerNYC]

youre going to have monitors in a mobile studio? i think you would be better off getting a couple of really realy nice cans

[Seafroggys]

depends. While I have my main monitors at home (where I would do my mixing), they are 18 pounds a piece. I plan on getting small inexpensive 4" speakers or so to take along with me so I have those. Having everybody listening to the mix on cans doesn't really help with people trying to talk to each other.

The laptop seems okay, but the CPU may be a bit slow.

Pretty much, my shopping list right now is:

Microphones
RODE K2
Shure SM7b
A second AKG D112, for miking bass cabs in addition to double bass
Sennheiser MD421 (4 of these)
Probably another Audix i5

Cheap 4" Monitors
A few more stands

Presonus Digimax FS to expand my inputs to 16
FMR RNP, so I get 2 channels of pro quality preamps
Full version of Reaper

This runs about $5000 or so. I also will want to upgrade my computer, get another gig of RAM and up the processor to a Core 2 Duo or something, maybe a second hard drive.

[Aaron]

Back from lunch. Refreshed my list up the top.

Those mics will kill your savings Froggy.

[Tripp_chaos]

the processor alone will kill it...

[Seafroggys]

Core 2 Duos cost like $120....a little more than a friggen Audix i5 or an SM57.

[Tripp_chaos]

Exactly... Now if you look at something faster your talkin' anywhere from $200-400...

or $1,000 (Intel® Core™ I7-965 Processor Extreme Edition (3.20 GHz)) just thought I'd add that in...

[Seafroggys]

But I said Core 2 Duo. So no, its not expensive, and everything else you are talking about is not relevant. Besides, most DAWs don't even support Quad core...I'm sure some don't support dual core either, still relying on single core threading. I could have easily bought a Core 2 Duo when I built this computer about 20 months ago, but they were still hella expensive.

So I have a mic question.

For acoustic guitar, how does this mic setup work? SDC on the neck, positioned where it sounds best (this is an omni mic), a ribbon on the body to capture the warmth, and an LDC several feet back to capture the entire sound.

[Tripp_chaos]

sry for the debate... and that's something I didn't know about most daws not runnin duo core as for the mic Q I think it'd work good depending on what your other insturments mixing it with... just plain acoustic would be good but I'd pull the ldc in more about 2 feet away depending on your acoustics in the room. What are you picking with?

[Seafroggys]

I don't know, its not me playing. I will eventually record an acoustic for my album though...

[Tripp_chaos]

So take the risk if they don't like it you can always delete and record again... Hell you might even surprise them with it, I've done things that has shocked the musicians because they weren't even expecting it to come out good because honestly by themselves they didn't sound good...

[Moseph]

Saw this online review of the Audix D6...

http://www.recordingreview.com/blog/drum-recording/audix-d6-kick-drum-microphone-review/


One grain of salt: the author states that it's perfect for kick drums for styles as diverse as metal, country, and pop (which isn't specific enough to mean anything) without any additional processing. Really disagree there. However, it's otherwise pretty informative.

[Seafroggys]

I may get a D6 way down the line, but for now my D112 will suit me just fine.