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NUTHA JASON
01-24-2008, 11:46 AM
Here is a graphic representation of a practice technique that ensures drummers achieve both dimensions of drumming excellence: speed and accuracy.

http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/id94.html

this is a lesson i give all my pupils so i decided to put it up neatly on my website rather than just scrawl it on paper for them during lessons. have a gander

j

The Mites
01-24-2008, 12:50 PM
Speed is a side-effect of control.


Oh whoops! I'm sorry... I didn't mean to summarise your 550 word article in 7 words.

NUTHA JASON
01-24-2008, 01:52 PM
don't worry ... you didn't

j

Retarded Chipple
01-24-2008, 03:46 PM
Thats not a bad lesson but it's a little long winded. You could easily cut it down and make it much more simple. I don't think the graph is all that necessary, it makes what you're trying to say seem more complicated than it actually is.
I do agree with you though: work up to your maximum speed, drop the tempo down to a place you feel comfortable and hold it there.


Speed and accuracy the only dimensions of drumming excellence...? The excellence of rudimental practice, maybe but otherwise I'd have to disagree. I mean, does musicality count for nothing?

NUTHA JASON
01-24-2008, 03:57 PM
accurately capturing expression

stevensonmat2
01-25-2008, 08:25 AM
Speed is a side-effect of control.


Oh whoops! I'm sorry... I didn't mean to summarise your 550 word article in 7 words.

Lol, man, you're a dick. All you do is rip on this guy.

Panopticon
01-25-2008, 08:43 AM
Speed is a side-effect of control.


Oh whoops! I'm sorry... I didn't mean to summarise your 550 word article in 7 words.


Kit Setup

I love big drum kit setups. Thereís nothing quite like seeing a beefy drum-monster overloaded with testosterone. However, one thing I personally can not stand is long set up times. The trade-off just isnít worth it.
The same thing goes for your choice of hardware, and this is rather a big issue, especially nowadays where you really are spoiled for choice when it comes to hardware. Some of the later products from DW and Gibraltar are the epitome of this.

Let me break this down:

Toms: You could have a couple; you could have a ridiculous Mike Portnoy amount. It doesnít really matter. What matters is how many you personally feel comfortable playing on. I donít feel comfortable playing with two floor toms. Other people are, and that doesnít matter. What matters is that you will be carrying both those floor toms to and from your car before and after the gig/session.

With regards to placement, your tom-toms should descend in pitch from left to right. There are a good many great drummers who switch some of their toms around to make playing them more difficult or for aesthetics or whatever. In all seriousness, the drum kit is a hard enough instrument already and if you need to find ways of making it more difficult then you need to stop and reflect as to why you are playing in the first place. Secondly, you should never set up your drums or cymbals in a particular way that is fashionable, with that being the singular reason. Aesthetics is never a reason. The previous sentence should be our mantra. Remember it, tell your friends, spray-paint it on your school, tattoo it on your upper thigh. Just donít forget it! You shouldnít have to reach for your toms either; they should be at arms length so you arenít thrown off balance when you play them. I strongly suggest watching Billy Wardís DVD entitled Big Time for a fantastic source of drumming minus bullshit.

"I'm better than you"

Oh sorry i didn't mean to summarize your however-many-word article into 4 words.

Anyway...awesome lesson. I should really start doing this...and by "this" i mean just practicing rudiments and stuff like that in general. All I've been doing lately is just groovin around the kit and playing with my band...not actually WORKING on anything.

The Mites
01-25-2008, 11:41 AM
accurately capturing expression

I do not understand how you percieve your "diagram" as accurate when there are no units of measurement.

"I'm better than you"

The article I wrote had no hint of self-superiority whatsoever.

NUTHA JASON
01-25-2008, 12:08 PM
you crack me up enemy. lol

I do not understand how you percieve your "diagram" as accurate when there are no units of measurement.

you would need units of measurement mites.

The Mites
01-25-2008, 12:18 PM
...What?

NUTHA JASON
01-25-2008, 01:18 PM
you would need units of measurement mites.

The Mites
01-25-2008, 04:01 PM
Wow. I obviously said "...What?" because I didn't hear what you said despite the text-based medium. :rolleyes:

Maybe you could try explaining what your sentence means?

Seafroggys
01-25-2008, 05:25 PM
Wow. I obviously said "...What?" because I didn't hear what you said despite the text-based medium. :rolleyes:

Maybe you could try explaining what your sentence means?

or maybe he's just ****ing with you because you're a dick?

sLarkin20
01-25-2008, 05:34 PM
rofl

Static
01-25-2008, 11:48 PM
lolololololololololllll

The Mites
01-26-2008, 10:01 AM
What makes me a dick? Because I challenge the thread-starter's proclamations?

I guess all members of parliament are dicks too then... :rolleyes:

sLarkin20
01-26-2008, 10:16 AM
Hey guys, MX members are now official members of the parliament, so it's ok to be dicks to each other!!

There's ways to "challenge" someones thoughts and ideas without being a sarcastic asshole, unless that's just who you are. If that's the case, then my apologies.

Anyways...at least he is trying to positively contribute to the Lessons thread and appears to be about one of two or so people that have so far.

Surtr
01-26-2008, 10:16 AM
Uhhhh....

So what you're saying is...

Practice and you get better...

My dear lord, the revelations that are now unfolding.

The Mites
01-26-2008, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by sLarkin20

Hey guys, MX members are now official members of the parliament, so it's ok to be dicks to each other!!

Here's where you are being hypocritical. You use sarcasm to counter my previous statement, and then in your next paragraph you associate sarcasm with being an "asshole". Furthermore, no we are not members of parliament but we are human beings all the same and should challenge the information we are given unless it coincides with our own logic and reasoning.

There's ways to "challenge" someones thoughts and ideas without being a sarcastic asshole, unless that's just who you are. If that's the case, then my apologies.

I hereby decline your apology.

Anyways...at least he is trying to positively contribute to the Lessons thread and appears to be about one of two or so people that have so far.

There is a diference between trying, and achieving.

Anything else mate?

double stroke roller
01-26-2008, 01:26 PM
Uhhhh....

So what you're saying is...

Practice and you get better...

My dear lord, the revelations that are now unfolding.

What he is saying is make sure you practice at a speed you can handle while using correct technique. It's good advice that every drummer can benefit from.

sLarkin20
01-26-2008, 02:48 PM
Anything else mate?

No. Apparently I was right when classifying you as a sarcastic asshole as you just claimed to be. That was all my post was meant to accomplish really, which it did. Thanks mate!

The Mites
01-26-2008, 02:51 PM
What he is saying is make sure you practice at a speed you can handle while using correct technique. It's good advice that every drummer can benefit from.

Alright that's cool, but think about what you just said. You literally just summarised his article, just as WToT and I have done.

The overall message is good advice. That's just plain obvious. The initial point was that he wrote an article in 550 words, and you just summarised it in 14 words.

My second point was that he tried to make his "technique" (which most people call practicing) appear to be scientific, by using a graph which for some reason(!) didn't have any units of measurement.

No. Apparently I was right when classifying you as a sarcastic asshole as you just claimed to be. That was all my post was meant to accomplish really, which it did. Thanks mate!

My response didn't utilise sarcasm. Furthermore, to "classify" is to group it based on particular facts. You think that i'm a "sarcastic asshole", and that is your opinion, not a fact.

NUTHA JASON
01-26-2008, 03:12 PM
there are two types of people on this forum. mature people who can decide whether a post can be useful to them and even post a coherent comment (or not) and then there are guys like mites (interesting parasitic name there - the irony makes me smile everytime i read it) who have nothing better to do, no one to do it with or something. i don't care if they are 15 or 50 they need to do some serious growing up. but its okay if they don't because i'm not posting here for them but for the folks that might find my ideas useful.
so mites, thanks for bumping my threads and making me smile.
but really you are nothing but a clanging gong to me, an empty pitcher...

j

ps: Shikata ga nai

lmldrummer
01-26-2008, 03:35 PM
tbh BB, there's no reason to have units of measurement on that graph, because he's showing relative speeds, not exact

and while i would not have made a graph, i don't think it's a bad thing that he did, that could be very useful for people that don't know this already (the don't practice to fast part)

all of Jason's stuff is focus'd to beginner drummers, of course it's going to look easy to you, and you just have to sit around and critique him for trying to help beginners get a good foothold

The Mites
01-26-2008, 03:40 PM
there are two types of people on this forum. mature people who can decide whether a post can be useful to them and even post a coherent comment (or not) and then there are guys like mites (interesting parasitic name there - the irony makes me smile everytime i read it) who have nothing better to do, no one to do it with or something. i don't care if they are 15 or 50 they need to do some serious growing up. but its okay if they don't because i'm not posting here for them but for the folks that might find my ideas useful.
so mites, thanks for bumping my threads and making me smile.
but really you are nothing but a clanging gong to me, an empty pitcher...

j

ps: Shikata ga nai

Please refrain from using personal attacks. You have called me immature, sLarkin20 has called me a "sarcastic asshole", stevensonmat2 has called me a "dick".

I'm not attacking anyone personally, i'm attacking the content of your argument. Please refrain from personal attacks as this adds no value to the discussion.

Mods, although these members are breaking the rules, please do not close this thread as I would like to see where it develops.

Although irrelevant, I have already explained the history of my username. It does not imply that I am a parasite.

Please not also that the language used on these forums is English.

all of Jason's stuff is focus'd to beginner drummers, of course it's going to look easy to you, and you just have to sit around and critique him for trying to help beginners get a good foothold

I support Jason trying to help beginners. I support education in general, as it is a basic human right. However I challenge his methods.

double stroke roller
01-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Alright that's cool, but think about what you just said. You literally just summarised his article, just as WToT and I have done.

The overall message is good advice. That's just plain obvious. The initial point was that he wrote an article in 550 words, and you just summarised it in 14 words.

My second point was that he tried to make his "technique" (which most people call practicing) appear to be scientific, by using a graph which for some reason(!) didn't have any units of measurement.



My response didn't utilise sarcasm. Furthermore, to "classify" is to group it based on particular facts. You think that i'm a "sarcastic spatula", and that is your opinion, not a fact.

Yeah I summarized it in 14 words but that summary doesn't give the reasons why it works and sometimes people need to understand the reasons behind something before they are willing to try it. That is why Jason used 550 words.

sLarkin20
01-26-2008, 04:17 PM
Please refrain from using personal attacks. You have called me immature, sLarkin20 has called me a "sarcastic spatula", stevensonmat2 has called me a "dick".

I'm not attacking anyone personally, i'm attacking the content of your argument. Please refrain from personal attacks as this adds no value to the discussion.

Mods, although these members are breaking the rules, please do not close this thread as I would like to see where it develops.

Although irrelevant, I have already explained the history of my username. It does not imply that I am a parasite.

Please not also that the language used on these forums is English.



I support Jason trying to help beginners. I support education in general, as it is a basic human right. However I challenge his methods.

Being as you called YOURSELF a sarcastic asshole when you "declined my apology," I don't think that could be considered a personal attack. Whether or not that was sarcasm I wouldn't know, as this is the internet. So I assume you are being serious.

Jason took his personal time to write an article/lesson obviously geared towards newer players in an attempt to contribute to this community and like I said before is one of, I believe, two people that have actually submitted a lesson since the new thread has been made.

Saying you "summarized" his article in 7 words is more or less useless because those 7 words alone would teach new players nothing. I could summarize the Bible in one word, maybe with God or Jesus or something, but that doesn't really get the whole message across to someone who has never read or heard about it before now does it?

Don't try and pretend to be nice about it now and act like myself and the others here were wrong for calling you out on being a sarcastic asshole, as you clearly labeled yourself in the earlier post. There's ways to be unnecessarily rude to someone without using "offensive" names towards someone like, for example, in the way you replied to Jason's post.

The Mites
01-26-2008, 04:39 PM
I declined your apology because the nature of your response was sarcastic and thus your apology came across as insincere.

You can't summarise The Bible as "God" or "Jesus". God/Jesus is a word, not a summary.

sLarkin20
01-26-2008, 04:54 PM
No more posts about this for me. I wouldn't want you to get offended by anything else I have to say about you and have you report it again.

Panopticon
01-26-2008, 05:10 PM
can we take this to the stronghold please? Jason's thread is getting spammed for no reason.

Surtr
01-26-2008, 08:11 PM
I'd say that I'm just passed this knowledge is all.

This is pretty much only relevant for people just begining or people who just came outa' their caves lol.

Its something that being a musician for 10 or so years of my life I guess I've almost always known.

double stroke roller
01-26-2008, 09:21 PM
I think it's something a lot of musicians don't understand let alone drummers. I can hear it through the walls at my practice space.

stevensonmat2
01-26-2008, 10:14 PM
I'd say that I'm just passed this knowledge is all.

This is pretty much only relevant for people just begining or people who just came outa' their caves lol.

Its something that being a musician for 10 or so years of my life I guess I've almost always known.

Whether it's intentional or not, posts like this(and some of BB's similar posts) are purely intended to boost your image. The info in jason's lesson may be basic, but there are PLENTY of people who could gain from what he shared. If it does nothing for you, then why bother commenting? Only to inform others that your skills are beyond his lesson(which helps nobody in any way).

BB, calling you a dick was uncalled for. Seeing you constantly attack jason's threads pushed my nerves, but it's no excuse.

We_Love_Lime
01-26-2008, 11:40 PM
Lolz.
I can summarize Great Expectations in 7 words

Pip falls in love with Estella.
Actually that's only 6 words.

It's sort of easy to take a piece of work, and summarize it after the fact.
However summaries don't always capture every detail.
Like Pip ALSO travels to Denmark, which wasn't mentioned in my summary which was "Pip falls in love with Estella".

I hope everyone learns a very important lesson from this.

Undisco Kidd
01-26-2008, 11:42 PM
wait pip never goes to denmark.

i dont know which great expectations you read the cliffnotes of, but from the cliffnotes i read pip did NOT go to denmark.


great expectations in 3 words:

brits are lame.

We_Love_Lime
01-26-2008, 11:44 PM
Chapter 31.

Pip goes to Denmark.

Charlie Daniels
01-27-2008, 12:04 AM
Mites is not doing anything wrong. He's just trying to improve the quality of the lessons posted :-S

With the graph, it would be worth noting that at slower speeds the quality of the playing also decreases.

I'm not sure having "100%" is good either, as that would infer it is 'perfect' and even the most basic of things played by a begginner will never be 100% accurate. It's all relative.

But over all, everything you are saying is true and it's one of your better lessons :thumb:

OzzyTheDoggy
01-27-2008, 04:23 AM
Interesting ideas jason. Though it seems you fall into a common trap. Humans are all different, and you can not graphically express in finite expression the learning curves for people, as the learning curves for each person are different. Not only that, some people simply are not interested in "speed", but other aspects.

Your effort is valid, but the methodology is highly flawed.

Charlie Daniels
01-27-2008, 04:52 AM
Interesting ideas jason. Though it seems you fall into a common trap. Humans are all different, and you can not graphically express in finite expression the learning curves for people, as the learning curves for each person are different.
While what you said is true, it's not a reason to criticise the lesson. He's not saying "In one week you'll get 10bpm faster", all he's saying is over time you will retain accuracy at faster speeds. Which is true of all people.


Not only that, some people simply are not interested in "speed", but other aspects.
:-S

The whole point of the lesson is about learning solid control rather than going for speed.

OzzyTheDoggy
01-27-2008, 05:10 AM
You fail. Please learn to read about the subject before posting.

Charlie Daniels
01-27-2008, 07:28 AM
Care to elaborate?

Det_Nosnip
01-29-2008, 02:12 PM
I declined your apology because the nature of your response was sarcastic and thus your apology came across as insincere.

You can't summarise The Bible as "God" or "Jesus". God/Jesus is a word, not a summary.

I could summarize it in one word, if not for the filters. ;)

The Mites
01-29-2008, 02:52 PM
Hahaha! Nice one mate.

joe_04_04
01-30-2008, 12:07 PM
Wtf, can't we just accept that Jason was just trying to give out a free lesson. He's kind enough to do so. If you don't like it, why start a bunch of s**t, just leave the thread. Without excersizes and concepts, we wouldn't have a forum. Just because his concept is the same one as you have always heard of, doesn't mean he didn't approach it differently. If you can't learn calculus the way one teacher describes it, you look for another teacher who has a different approach. It's better not to rag on him because he was only trying to put out his two cents.:rolleyes:

joe_04_04
01-30-2008, 12:13 PM
I'd say that I'm just passed this knowledge is all.

This is pretty much only relevant for people just begining or people who just came outa' their caves lol.

Its something that being a musician for 10 or so years of my life I guess I've almost always known.


Seeing how we no longer have a beginner's thread, makes it quit difficult to place this one anywhere else

sportsfan4427
01-30-2008, 02:14 PM
nice article, if I were a teacher I'd always go with the over explaining something rather than the "lets see how few words I could explain this in".

The Mites
01-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Don't be ridiculous. The idea is to maintain an aura of mysticism to daze and confuse your students and catalyze their instigative thought process.

keaton_86
01-30-2008, 04:39 PM
You are such a homo.

Seafroggys
01-30-2008, 07:34 PM
Seriously BB, just shut the hell up.

billdrum
01-30-2008, 07:57 PM
It is what it is....a lesson that Jason was kind enough to share. If it doesn't apply to you, then just ignore it. This is why so few serious players come here. Whenever anything of any substance is posted, it gets ripped to shreds.

The Mites
01-30-2008, 08:07 PM
What is wrong with you guys? How difficult is it to understand that my last post was a joke? :rolleyes:

We_Love_Lime
01-30-2008, 08:23 PM
Haha BB

How does it feel to know you've been socially ostracized by the majority of an internet forum?

joe_04_04
01-30-2008, 08:43 PM
and whats with all this summarizing S**t? Isn't a word...a summary of words? you could summarize this (To urge on; goad) with this (instigate)...so its literally impossible to speak without summarizing.

Seafroggys
01-30-2008, 09:00 PM
What is wrong with you guys? How difficult is it to understand that my last post was a joke? :rolleyes:

nice one.

The Mites
01-31-2008, 03:10 AM
Haha BB

How does it feel to know you've been socially ostracized by the majority of an internet forum?

I don't care really. As Josiah has said, the internet doesn't really matter. I'm a nice guy in real life.

We_Love_Lime
01-31-2008, 08:30 AM
oh
lol

_Austin_
01-31-2008, 09:55 AM
Maan, I really hope we don't have another josiah on the way

Panopticon
02-03-2008, 10:19 AM
no we don't...we have the real one.

Sour Kraut
02-03-2008, 10:56 AM
I don't care really. As Josiah has said, the internet doesn't really matter. I'm a nice guy in real life.

Yeah, BB is cool. I used to talk to him on MSN.

Panopticon
02-03-2008, 11:12 AM
yes because it means a lot coming from a respectable member like yourself:)

crazyguy832
02-03-2008, 10:45 PM
Why were there 3 pages of replies with this? There should've been three posts, as follows:

#1 (BB): Hey, nice lesson, but couldn't it essentially be summarized merely by saying "practicing slow helps develop control for faster playing?"

#2 (Jason): Yes, that is essentially what I'm saying. However, the reason the article/lesson is so long is because I felt that explaining something in detail would be more beneficial for newer players than simply splurting out a sentence with no apparent backing to it.

#3 (BB): Ah, okay, that makes sense. Great lesson, then, mate!

#4 (anyone): there is no number 4! >_<