Chemist (or Moseph)....Fostex A8?

[Seafroggys]

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/542716169.html

Is this a good deal, assuming its in good condition?

Have a decent reel to reel recorder on hand could be nifty. I could somehow interface this with my Firestudio, or maybe run mixdowns into the machine for tape saturation.

[The Chemist]

It's a steal, but remember: you have to COMPLETELY understand that maintaining a multi-track tape recorder is INTENSIVE.

1) Head Alignments
2) Constant oiling
3) Spare parts are needed
4) Tape is really expensive, and I think that of those 15 reels you'll get,some may not be any good
5) No support for them anymore
6) Tape is something you shouldn't mess with unless you understand how tape works (M-Tone, dbx, etc)
7) Understanding that tape deteriorates incredibly fact unless it is stored properly.
8) Understand the fact that you may LIKE the tape sound, modern mixing techniques might/will not translate well onto tape.

1, 2 and 3: leave to people who know how to do this until you are confident you know how.

[Moseph]

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/542716169.html

Is this a good deal, assuming its in good condition?

Have a decent reel to reel recorder on hand could be nifty. I could somehow interface this with my Firestudio, or maybe run mixdowns into the machine for tape saturation.

Hard to make a comment on this. Prices for this sort of thing vary greatly by local demand (particularly on Craigslist).

Also, 15 reels of tape is no small investment on its own, so it's possible this is a pretty good deal even if the machine has some kinks to work out.

One thing I don't like about the ad is the distinct lack of information. He doesn't mention the speeds of the deck, nor does he mention the thickness of the tapes (trust me, that's important).

I've seen other tape decks go for between $150-$350 on craigslist, but they were in lots of different forms, conditions, and locations. This doesn't seem outrageous, but I'm not inclined to think it's a steal or anything.

[The Chemist]

Hard to make a comment on this. Prices for this sort of thing vary greatly by local demand (particularly on Craigslist).

Also, 15 reels of tape is no small investment on its own, so it's possible this is a pretty good deal even if the machine has some kinks to work out.

One thing I don't like about the ad is the distinct lack of information. He doesn't mention the speeds of the deck, nor does he mention the thickness of the tapes (trust me, that's important).

I've seen other tape decks go for between $150-$350 on craigslist, but they were in lots of different forms, conditions, and locations. This doesn't seem outrageous, but I'm not inclined to think it's a steal or anything.

Ever use an A8? Easy and smooth, like laddie pencils.

[Moseph]

Ever use an A8?

I have not dealt with any Fostex tape decks.

Easy and smooth, like laddie pencils.

No part of this statement makes any sort of sense to me.

[The Chemist]

I have not dealt with any Fostex tape decks.



No part of this statement makes any sort of sense to me.


A laddie pencil is a very smooth and easy to use drawing utensil.

[Moseph]

A laddie pencil is a very smooth and easy to use drawing utensil.

Fine, but I still don't see how "smooth" or "easy to use" really ever enters the equation when you're discussing tape machines.

They're linear editing devices that require constant interruption to your workflow.

[The Chemist]

Fine, but I still don't see how "smooth" or "easy to use" really ever enters the equation when you're discussing tape machines.

They're linear editing devices that require constant interruption to your workflow.

I think Froggies will record to tape, then play those tracks BACK into his FireStudio, getting the tape sound, but then having it digitized.

[Motleyguy]

Chemist is right, I'm working with analog at school right now. Just doing the proper alignments is tough unless you know exactly how. It's very specific and intense. Good investment if you know how to use and maintain though. I mean what engineer wouldn't want a tape machine. Love that analog sound. Headbump FTW.

[Fraggy]

can someone please explain a typical 'tape sound'?
i'm confused cause you all talk about this amazing tape sound and i just sit here nodding as if i know what your talking about and i dont..

someone explain please?

[Moseph]

can someone please explain a typical 'tape sound'?
i'm confused cause you all talk about this amazing tape sound and i just sit here nodding as if i know what your talking about and i dont..

someone explain please?

Like all things audio, half of the "tape sound" is hype generated by younger engineers who aren't very good (or maybe even they are pretty good) and make the fallacious assumption that the only difference between their recordings and the great records of the past is that they're using digital and the past records were on analog.

However, there is in fact a distinct difference in timbral qualities between tape and digital. Assuming you have very high quality tape, wide track widths, and a high speed of playback, the key difference between the two is that digital tends to sound "crisper" and tape tends to sound "warmer". This has to do with the inherent hysteris properties of ferromagnetic particles (ie, how it is that tape actually works). Essentially, modern digital is much better at accurately reproducing transients and high frequencies. The result is a kind of "filter" effect where the tape tends to naturally smooth things out and is less susceptible to irregularities in the recorded signal.

Tape has one other advantage, which is the real reaon many enginers use it, because it's difficult to replicate with digital means: tape is not subject to overfow. Like digital, tape has limits to the volume levels it can represent. Unlike digital, it cannot overflow, so the end result is what is known as "tape saturation," which is in effect a form of harmonic distortion that can be somewhat mild and is considered by some to be "soothing" as opposed to digital distortion caused by clipping and overflow problems.

These are the main reasons that analog tape is still not uncommon (as an example) for recording drums: the decrease in transient accuracy and the saturation effect will "smooth" and "fatten" the drums when recorded at an appropriate gain, whereas digital will be very "crisp" and runs the risk of nasty digital clipping.

If you want a decent freeware tape saturation simulator, check out Jeroen Breebaart's Ferox.

[Fraggy]

believe it or not that was actually quite helpful.

thanks :).

[Seafroggys]

Yeah I never really planned on getting tape into my setup though it was just one of those random deals that popped up.

I also have Ferox too, I use it (at the Chemist's suggestion) when I use the piano patch off my keyboard.

[Seafroggys]

Bump: I put Ferox on my drums. Even though it made the bass drum sound great in the mix, and made the drums sound really warm soloed, the cymbals lost a lot of the really high frequencies, even setting the plug-in to the maximum roll off of 17k. The cymbals just got buried in the mix. Everything else sounded better with than without though.

[Motleyguy]

Like all things audio, half of the "tape sound" is hype generated by younger engineers who aren't very good (or maybe even they are pretty good) and make the fallacious assumption that the only difference between their recordings and the great records of the past is that they're using digital and the past records were on analog.

However, there is in fact a distinct difference in timbral qualities between tape and digital. Assuming you have very high quality tape, wide track widths, and a high speed of playback, the key difference between the two is that digital tends to sound "crisper" and tape tends to sound "warmer". This has to do with the inherent hysteris properties of ferromagnetic particles (ie, how it is that tape actually works). Essentially, modern digital is much better at accurately reproducing transients and high frequencies. The result is a kind of "filter" effect where the tape tends to naturally smooth things out and is less susceptible to irregularities in the recorded signal.

Tape has one other advantage, which is the real reaon many enginers use it, because it's difficult to replicate with digital means: tape is not subject to overfow. Like digital, tape has limits to the volume levels it can represent. Unlike digital, it cannot overflow, so the end result is what is known as "tape saturation," which is in effect a form of harmonic distortion that can be somewhat mild and is considered by some to be "soothing" as opposed to digital distortion caused by clipping and overflow problems.

These are the main reasons that analog tape is still not uncommon (as an example) for recording drums: the decrease in transient accuracy and the saturation effect will "smooth" and "fatten" the drums when recorded at an appropriate gain, whereas digital will be very "crisp" and runs the risk of nasty digital clipping.

If you want a decent freeware tape saturation simulator, check out Jeroen Breebaart's Ferox.


You missed one, the reason why a lot of hip hop artists as well as rock/metal artists will use analog tape. Headbump. Which is a boost in low frequency. Depending on how the tape machine is aligned it will either be around 80Hz or 100Hz.

[Moseph]

You missed one, the reason why a lot of hip hop artists as well as rock/metal artists will use analog tape. Headbump. Which is a boost in low frequency. Depending on how the tape machine is aligned it will either be around 80Hz or 100Hz.

That one is arguable. Headbump also presents further complications to transferring amongst analog media (like cassette or vinyl). Also, a similar boost can be done with filters, dynamics, and dynamic filtering.

[Motleyguy]

That one is arguable. Headbump also presents further complications to transferring amongst analog media (like cassette or vinyl). Also, a similar boost can be done with filters, dynamics, and dynamic filtering.

True, but alot of people still prefer and like the sound of headbump that you get from analog tape. It's just another of the distinct differences is sound/timbre that you were talking about. You didn't mention it, I figured I would.