Hear me out everybody

[thickasabrick]

Assuming I have a correct understanding of capitalism...wouldn't it benefit a country to have the government hold an active position in the economic world?

I mean, if you own a big factory you will have to pay your employees and pay for upkeep and taxes etc. But all the leftover profits go to the people at the top.

So why doesn't the government pay to start a factory that produces a large profit, but the government gives the majority of the leftover profits back to the employees. That way instead of having five hundred employees working for minimum wage, and ten executives making ten million a year, you have everyone making a more similiar salary that is several times minimum wage.

Wouldn't that help raise the poverty line and economy etc in a country if many of these factories kept everyone employeed in a decent paying job?

[guitrguy]

Assuming I have a correct understanding of capitalism...wouldn't it benefit a country to have the government hold an active position in the economic world?

I mean, if you own a big factory you will have to pay your employees and pay for upkeep and taxes etc. But all the leftover profits go to the people at the top.

So why doesn't the government pay to start a factory that produces a large profit, but the government gives the majority of the leftover profits back to the employees. That way instead of having five hundred employees working for minimum wage, and ten executives making ten million a year, you have everyone making a more similiar salary that is several times minimum wage.

Wouldn't that help raise the poverty line and economy etc in a country if many of these factories kept everyone employeed in a decent paying job?
Yeah, but that would never happen, and basically be communism.

[BigBadBooDooDady]

I'd have better luck talking my wife into a threesome.

[Against Miik!]

It would be super cool if people were all greedy as ****

[lunchforthesky]

Because it wouldn't be capitalism, it would be nationalisation and judging by the running of the factory, socialism.

[Det_Nosnip]

Nice work. Too bad Marx+Engels beat you to it by a few hundred years...

[Iskandar]

Yeah, but that would never happen, and basically be communism.Communism? Nah, communism is the far extreme of socialism, a society where there is no private property. Everything to everyone.

What the threadstarter is talking about is socialism, and it already does exist to some extent. All developed nations have nationalized industries, the precise amount depending on the country and whoever's in charge at the time (right-wingers would push to privatize such industries, left-wingers would want to keep and expand upon them).

[Aaron]

Do you think that the CEO of a bank puts in the same effort as an admin-assistant at a branch?

[Iskandar]

Do you think that the CEO of a bank puts in the same effort as an admin-assistant at a branch?Probably, he just gets paid way more.

[Aaron]

Be realistic.

[Iskandar]

Be realistic.Well, it's pretty damned difficult to objectively judge effort and sacrifice and all that, honestly.

[Aaron]

Well yes. But I think that speaking simplistically, a CEO does much longer contact hours than someone in an admin-role. Anyway, it was just an aside.

[Against Miik!]

IngSoc ftw

CEO's don't just become CEO's. They pay their dues, work their way up. So at some point, they deserved to be paid more. However, what they get in relation to the rest of the company that doesn't do that much less work is ridiculous.

[Iskandar]

IngSoc ftwDude, what?

[Against Miik!]

Sorry, I just watched the movie, and the talk of socialism made me spit it out.

[Iskandar]

Sorry, I just watched the movie, and the talk of socialism made me spit it out.Well, to me the term IngSoc is ironic, as is Newspeak in general. Ingsoc is neither English nor socialism ... it's just Soviet totalitarianism imposed upon the people of Oceania.

Remember 1984 was written by a lifelong democratic socialist.

[Against Miik!]

Sounds like what American socialism would be like if it ever came. Thats not a knock against socialism, more a knock on the way the U.S. seems to do things recently.

[Iskandar]

Sounds like what American socialism would be like if it ever came. Thats not a knock against socialism, more a knock on the way the U.S. seems to do things recently.Hey, maybe. But socialism in America is about as likely as the Christian Heritage Party coming to power in Canada.

[VomitStainedCretin]

It would be super cool if people were all greedy as ****Yes but we can solve this by replacing government and administrative structures with a purely rational super-computer without the temptations of human egoism. All we have to do is surgically implant this microchip and reprogram your brain...

Interestingly enough, the Soviet Union attempted, using Pavlovian psychoanalytic techniques, to condition people in such a way as to produce the ideal citizen. They failed but soon we will have the technology to succeed.

[Iskandar]

Yes but we can solve this by replacing government and administrative structures with a purely rational super-computer without the temptations of human egoism. All we have to do is surgically implant this microchip and reprogram your brain...

Interestingly enough, the Soviet Union attempted, using Pavlovian psychoanalytic techniques, to condition people in such a way as to produce the ideal citizen. They failed but soon we will have the technology to succeed.What the hell are you talking about?

[Hababi]

someone's apparently never read the Manifesto...

But anyway, it's best to keep government out of everything that can't reasonably and properly be done by a private business.

[Iskandar]

someone's apparently never read the Manifesto...This doesn't have much to do with the Communist Manifesto. That's all about the history of capitalism and why the glorious worker's revolution will take place.
But anyway, it's best to keep government out of everything that can't reasonably and properly be done by a private business.Nationalize Wal-Mart.

[Hababi]

This doesn't have much to do with the Communist Manifesto. That's all about the history of capitalism and why the glorious worker's revolution will take place.

Don't miss my phantom edit :cool:

But yeah I wasn't speaking literally:smash:

[Iskandar]

Don't miss my phantom edit :cool:

But yeah I wasn't speaking literally:smash:Yeah, I know.

Your phantom edit just make me sigh at what a hopeless conservative you are. Nationalize Wal-Mart!

[Hababi]

Yeah, I know.

Your phantom edit just make me sigh at what a hopeless conservative you are. Nationalize Wal-Mart!

:lol: The problem is that Wal-Mart exists, not that it's not nationalized. A nationalized Wal-Mart would be even worse.

I don't understand why people would want government where things could be done privately.

[Iskandar]

:lol: The problem is that Wal-Mart exists, not that it's not nationalized. A nationalized Wal-Mart would be even worse.
I know. I basically don't want Wal-Mart to exist at all.

As for me, I just plain don't like capitalism. But oh well.

[Hababi]

I know. I basically don't want Wal-Mart to exist at all.

So whatever you do don't nationalize it because then you'll never get rid of it ;)

[Iskandar]

So whatever you do don't nationalize it because then you'll never get rid of it ;)Well, it would privatized whenever the next batch of right-wing ideologues gets into power.

[Milestogo05]

Neither "True" capitalism or socialism would be half as good as we think it'd be
thats why we have a little dose of government regulations and taxes to make sure nothing gets to extreme

[McP3000]

OP's theory wouldn't work

there i said it

[thickasabrick]

IngSoc ftw

CEO's don't just become CEO's. They pay their dues, work their way up. So at some point, they deserved to be paid more. However, what they get in relation to the rest of the company that doesn't do that much less work is ridiculous.

Lots of CEO's are born into their jobs, literally. So many executives give their sons jobs and then let them take over, while the people who work 12 hour days for 30 years are still making minimum wage.

And yes people, I have read the Communist Manifesto. The difference between my socialism/capitalism and Marxs Communism is that all the leftover money in a communist society goes to the dictator at the top. In my post I allowed democracy and private business/property to exist alongside the benefits of communism/socialism.

And I realize theories of ideal government never turn out half as good as they seem.

[Iskandar]

And yes people, I have read the Communist Manifesto. The difference between my socialism/capitalism and Marxs Communism is that all the leftover money in a communist society goes to the dictator at the top. In my post I allowed democracy and private business alongside the benefits of communism/socialism.Marx's communism is almost the polar opposite of 20th-century Communist regimes. Actually, the ideas you posted are far closer to Marx.
OP's theory wouldn't work

there i said it
It's called nationalization and it does work in every developed country on earth.

Silly conservative.

[guitrguy]

Silly conservative, wealth is for the proletariat.

[Berner]

Assuming I have a correct understanding of capitalism...wouldn't it benefit a country to have the government hold an active position in the economic world?

I mean, if you own a big factory you will have to pay your employees and pay for upkeep and taxes etc. But all the leftover profits go to the people at the top.

So why doesn't the government pay to start a factory that produces a large profit, but the government gives the majority of the leftover profits back to the employees. That way instead of having five hundred employees working for minimum wage, and ten executives making ten million a year, you have everyone making a more similiar salary that is several times minimum wage.

Wouldn't that help raise the poverty line and economy etc in a country if many of these factories kept everyone employeed in a decent paying job?
Man that kind of happens in Saskatchewan already. See: crown corporations. Come on man, you live here, you should know this.

[Iskandar]

All of Canada has Crown corporations. They work well. Nobody complains about them.

[Berner]

All of Canada has Crown corporations. They work well. Nobody complains about them.
I agree. I like them because they keep the cost low to the consumer and they create jobs.

[dei]

I am here to complain about Crown corporations. They do not work well!

[Iskandar]

I agree. I like them because they keep the cost low to the consumer and they create jobs.Good jobs too. I tried to get in at Canada Post. Didn't work, but if I did it would have paid over $20/h for an entry-level position. Full union benefits too.

[Berner]

Good jobs too. I tried to get in at Canada Post. Didn't work, but if I did it would have paid over $20/h for an entry-level position. Full union benefits too.

Yeah. If I can't get into any private sector labs when I'm done University, I'll try for the provincial Crowns here.

[dei]

Now I really need to move to Canada.

[Iskandar]

Yeah. If I can't get into any private sector labs when I'm done University, I'll try for the provincial Crowns here.Cool.

Are you Conservative/Liberal? Bearing in mind neither party really exists in Saskatchewan.

[Berner]

I'm more liberal than anything, but more left leaning.

Oh and there are conservatives here. We call them the Saskatchewan Party. They are made up of a lot of Devine era Conservatives, so they just changed their name so as to get rid of the stigma of "We're gonna rape this place for money lol".

[Iskandar]

I'm more liberal than anything, but more left leaning.

Oh and there are conservatives here. We call them the Saskatchewan Party. They are made up of a lot of Devine era Conservatives, so they just changed their name so as to get rid of the stigma of "We're gonna rape this place for money lol".Oh yeah, I remember they beat the NDP by like three seats.

[Berner]

I think it was more than that. I think the NDP got 27 and the rest went to the Sask Party *puke*.



I just checked and it was 21 seats for the NDP and 37 for the sask party.

[Iskandar]

Fuk. These guys suck.

And the province was an NDP bastion for decades.

[Berner]

Fuk. These guys suck.

And the province was an NDP bastion for decades.

The farmers are fickle.

[thickasabrick]

Man that kind of happens in Saskatchewan already. See: crown corporations. Come on man, you live here, you should know this.

Well my face is red! At least you told me, I would have looked pretty silly discussing this in school had you not informed me. :wave:

[Berner]

Well my face is red! At least you told me, I would have looked pretty silly discussing this in school had you not informed me. :wave:

It's just the UofR. No one would have noticed.

[RNR]

Iskandar mentioned it already but, yeah, non-retarded countries have that sort of thing.

[Give me Beer]

Lots of CEO's are born into their jobs, literally. So many executives give their sons jobs and then let them take over, while the people who work 12 hour days for 30 years are still making minimum wage.

And yes people, I have read the Communist Manifesto. The difference between my socialism/capitalism and Marxs Communism is that all the leftover money in a communist society goes to the dictator at the top. In my post I allowed democracy and private business/property to exist alongside the benefits of communism/socialism.

And I realize theories of ideal government never turn out half as good as they seem.

Seriously, you read Marx and you came to that conclusion? I mean, seriously, the end state of communism is no government, there is no top, the workers control the production apparatus and everything flows back. Dear God, pick yourself up a few books of Marx and a copy of Trotsky's the Revolution Betrayed and read them, I mean, read them, do not put them on your bookshelf to make 'm look pretty. Otherwise you'll become another caviar socialist, or as they call 'm in Germany ... a member of the Toskane-faktion. (Refers to the fact that all "socialists" have a villa in Toskane lol).

P.S. This post in no way advocates Marx's ideas and I would advise you to pick up some Kropotkin, Hakim Bey and Bonnano at the same time. ;)

Workers of the world...relax!

[Iskandar]

Otherwise you'll become another caviar socialist, or as they call 'm in Germany ... a member of the Toskane-faktion. (Refers to the fact that all "socialists" have a villa in Toskane lol). You mean Tuscany, Italy?

Here we call them "champagne socialists" or "limousine socialists."

[Give me Beer]

You mean Tuscany, Italy?

Here we call them "champagne socialists" or "limousine socialists."

Yeah, Tuscany, I had no idea how they wrote it in English. :)

[thickasabrick]

Seriously, you read Marx and you came to that conclusion? I mean, seriously, the end state of communism is no government, there is no top, the workers control the production apparatus and everything flows back. Dear God, pick yourself up a few books of Marx and a copy of Trotsky's the Revolution Betrayed and read them, I mean, read them, do not put them on your bookshelf to make 'm look pretty. Otherwise you'll become another caviar socialist, or as they call 'm in Germany ... a member of the Toskane-faktion. (Refers to the fact that all "socialists" have a villa in Toskane lol).

P.S. This post in no way advocates Marx's ideas and I would advise you to pick up some Kropotkin, Hakim Bey and Bonnano at the same time. ;)

Workers of the world...relax!

I would argue that Marx's ideal communism never actually existed on earth. The communism I'm refering to in my posts is what I would maybe call "dictator-communism" or "warped-communism" where there was still a form of government getting rich off of the working class.

I don't think that anyone who read the Communist Manifesto would argue that the "communism" seen in Russia, China or Cuba was really Marx's ideal communism.

[monkeysonmars.]

well in your post you claimed The difference between my socialism/capitalism and Marxs Communism is that all the leftover money in a communist society goes to the dictator at the top. which implies you believe that stalinist russia etc was Marxist which is probably what is confusing people.

[Iskandar]

Marx's communism exists only in a book.

[thickasabrick]

well in your post you claimed which implies you believe that stalinist russia etc was Marxist which is probably what is confusing people.

Yes you are right, calling it Marxs Communism was a careless mistake on my part.

[g°®†]

Assuming I have a correct understanding of capitalism...wouldn't it benefit a country to have the government hold an active position in the economic world?

I mean, if you own a big factory you will have to pay your employees and pay for upkeep and taxes etc. But all the leftover profits go to the people at the top.

So why doesn't the government pay to start a factory that produces a large profit, but the government gives the majority of the leftover profits back to the employees. That way instead of having five hundred employees working for minimum wage, and ten executives making ten million a year, you have everyone making a more similiar salary that is several times minimum wage.

Wouldn't that help raise the poverty line and economy etc in a country if many of these factories kept everyone employeed in a decent paying job?




an americanized version of Communism.

[lfantwister]

So why doesn't the government pay to start a factory that produces a large profit, but the government gives the majority of the leftover profits back to the employees. That way instead of having five hundred employees working for minimum wage, and ten executives making ten million a year, you have everyone making a more similiar salary that is several times minimum wage.

no, this is just smart capitalism. If you pay your workers more they'll be more loyal to your company and will work harder and be happier. The fact that the government would be running it is negligible

[monkeysonmars.]

smart capitalism is getting workers who have no choice but to be loyal so you can pay them virtually nothing.

[lfantwister]

okay, its smart capitalism in our economic environment. If you treat your workers well you can attract the most skilled and therefore have better products

[Iskandar]

no, this is just smart capitalism. If you pay your workers more they'll be more loyal to your company and will work harder and be happier. The fact that the government would be running it is negligibleIf we're talking about firms set up by the government with redistribution of wealth, it's pretty much textbook socialism.

The government isn't exactly running things though in this case, it's providing the capital to set up the enterprises.

[lfantwister]

If we're talking about firms set up by the government with redistribution of wealth, it's pretty much textbook socialism. except this is only one sector (i'm assuming), and the government wouldnt' have a monopoly in the industry. Actually, I don't know why I'm assuming that. But that's what I was basing my thought on.

[Iskandar]

except this is only one sector (i'm assuming), and the government wouldnt' have a monopoly in the industry. Actually, I don't know why I'm assuming that. But that's what I was basing my thought on.I thought he meant all firms would be publically financed. But idk.