Shopclass bass

[Jordan_Frerichs]

in my freshman shop class, we are now able to choose are projects, so i figured Bass would be good. have no idea what i am in for, so was hoping for some help.
1st, the wood. i know that i can not just search for any hard wood commonly used. what doi need to look for in the wood to get the best peice?
2. how thick a slab?
3. anything else? how can i asure that when i put the shap into it, it will not look lopsided/unequal in the final product?

[rh15951]

1. You can use just about any wood, even plywood. Common/cheap body woods are basswood/agathis/poplar/ash/maple.
2. Measure the thickness of your current bass? I'd say about an inch and a half.
3. Be good at woodwork :p

[CCR90]

1. You can use just about any wood, even plywood. Common/cheap body woods are basswood/agathis/poplar/ash/maple.
2. Measure the thickness of your current bass? I'd say about an inch and a half.
3. Be good at woodwork :p

um.

2 inch, then that leaves you enough to plane/sand down to 1 3/4". Thats standard thickness.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

um.

2 inch, then that leaves you enough to plane/sand down to 1 3/4". Thats standard thickness.

good plan

[CCR90]

somewhere i have a thread about the one I am building. well its a guitar. too bad i am too lazy to find it.

[imnotamusician]

first of all are you trying to make and acoustic or electric?



if i were you, i'd go for something smaller first.

like an electric mandolin.

[CCR90]

if i were you, i'd go for something smaller first.

like an electric mandolin.

i disagree.

http://sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544585&highlight=CCR90

first guitar i'm building, ever.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

electric bass

[Jordan_Frerichs]

ccr, just checked it. u have just made me fell more confident about this. i think i might laminate mine too. what looks good with black walnut? i will look at what other woods they have/can get. what would be some other good laminate combos? idk about the neck, the neck pocket, and the pickup routerings, but they have a giant CNC router, and a lot of other gear, so i think if i can get some coordinates from some luithers, i am in the clear. this is going to be fun!

[rh15951]

um.

2 inch, then that leaves you enough to plane/sand down to 1 3/4". Thats standard thickness.

um.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

so, with the laminating, is there a special way to do it, or just common wood glue, and strong clamps?
what about the wood types? is there any specific combos of species/weight differences that would be good, or to avoid? do i just need to stick with woods that produce the same tone?

the woods i was thinking of using, were maple and black walnut, with a little bit of purple heart. i know i could substitute the maple with ash, or alder without much change in look. what are some substitues for maple and black walnut?

[CCR90]

so, with the laminating, is there a special way to do it, or just common wood glue, and strong clamps?
what about the wood types? is there any specific combos of species/weight differences that would be good, or to avoid? do i just need to stick with woods that produce the same tone?

the woods i was thinking of using, were maple and black walnut, with a little bit of purple heart. i know i could substitute the maple with ash, or alder without much change in look. what are some substitues for maple and black walnut?

well if you are just putting a little laminate, i doubt it will change the sound much.

basically make sure you have a very nice jointed edge and that both pieces are smooth. apply glue to one side, clamp the mofo together. wood glue is fine. give it a day or 2 to dry. then plane it.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

i thought it was better to make the laminate sides rougher to glue. right know i am on warmoth, looking at wood tones. my my sound i want is a cross between the aawsome slap sound of flea, and joe principe of rise against's bass. what tone would that be? very warm, warm, middle, bright, very bright? i was thinking bright, but not sure

[amnestyslowend]

God damn quit idolizing everyone else's tone and find your own damn it!!!!!! This crap with Flea this and rise against crappy at best bass players stupidly generic tone. I bet the guy use a Ampeg rig and P bass big deal. As for flea your not going to sound like him unless you are him. His attack gets his awesome tone it not just about what rig he plays on or his basses. On the last chili peppers album he played a Fender Jazz with Flats and still sounded like flea. So get over this whole tone bullshit and find your own style, and tone.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

God damn quit idolizing everyone else's tone and find your own damn it!!!!!! This crap with Flea this and rise against crappy at best bass players stupidly generic tone. I bet the guy use a Ampeg rig and P bass big deal. As for flea your not going to sound like him unless you are him. His attack gets his awesome tone it not just about what rig he plays on or his basses. On the last chili peppers album he played a Fender Jazz with Flats and still sounded like flea. So get over this whole tone bullpoop and find your own style, and tone.

dude, wtf. get out of this thread if ur just going to do this crap. i was asking if their basses had a very bright or warm tone. i don't have a lot of cash, so i want to get it right the 1st time, and that happens to be the range i am going for, if u don't like that tone, i don't really care, u don't have to have your setup like that, so shut up if u are not going to help.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

i did a little research on wood tone, and how the woods will acept the finishes. i am going for a clear gloss finish, and i think the tone i want is a bright tone. so far my wood choices are black walnut, ash, maple, and purple heart. does anyone know any other woods that fit in that tonal range, and accept the clear finish well?
i have 2 designs i am hoping for an opinion on.
1. black walnut wings, and a center (from left to right) of ash, black walnut, maple, purple heart, maple, black walnut, ash.(the 2 strips of maple, and 1 of purple heart being wider than the stripd of a ash and Blk walnut)
2. ash wings, center: black walnut, maple, purple heart, maple, black walnut.
witch do u think is better? i know number one, will be more heavy, but will it be heavior by a lot?

[Jordan_Frerichs]

or, a third one might be just to have black walnut, and ash, laminated right down the middle of the bass. idk about that one though because my other bass is light/dark contrast, and they might my to simalar in theme.

[edgebass5]

Constructing a bass from scratch is bound to have a lot of trial and error, a lot of first-time mistakes, and definitely an associated learning curve. As such, I would not start with a design of any complexity, or one that required expensive woods. Think of all the great luthiers out there. How many scratch/throw-away basses do you think they've built over the years to get some practice at the construction of a particular model before committing themselves to building the real deal? I'm guessing the number is pretty high. How many of those scratch/throw-away basses do you think were built with ash, black walnut, maple, purpleheart, etc. etc. etc. and how many do you think were built with crappy pine and a lovely plywood laminate top? I'm guessing the majority of them :p

My point is this. Before you spend a bunch of money on high-grade, expensive woods I would suggest building at least one low-grade version of your intended bass beforehand. You'll learn a lot about the process, you'll learn from your mistakes (and I guarantee mistakes will be made) and you gain valuable insight without wasting much, if any money.

I'm curious as to what you're doing for the neck. All of your questions seem to pertain to the body of the bass, but you've made no mention of the neck. Are you building the neck as well? If you're not building the neck and are going to use a neck from something/somewhere else, have you gone about getting the proper neck pocket dimensions?

What about hardware? Pickup(s)? Number of strings? Scale length? Electronics?

[Jordan_Frerichs]

4 string, precision/mm pickups, 34" scale. going to guitar center to find the best size

[edgebass5]

The best size what?

You didn't address my neck question...

[Jordan_Frerichs]

The best size what?

You didn't address my neck question...

sorry, find the best type of neck at GC. first i am just findout how much the wood for my original design will cost, and plan from there. if it is affordable, then i will get the wood, lamintate, and plane it, and yes, i will use test scraps on the band saw, and cnc machine.
how much would it cost (on average) for:
ash 2" thick, 24" long, and 12" wide
black walnut 2" thick, 20" long, and 3/4" wide
maple 2" thick, 20" long, and 1.5" wide
purple heart 2" thick, 20" long, and 1 3/8" wide

[Jordan_Frerichs]

i showed my shop teacher my list, and he told me to look at this exotic wood he had in the back as a purple heart substitute. lignum vitae, iron wood. it looks awsome. its sort of maroon red, with a bit of black. aparently it is supposed to be pretty hard to find. there is enough for a few laminate tops, but thats about it. looks awsome though. u think it would be good?

[edgebass5]

Are you going to put a truss rod in your neck? Standard or bi-flex? Reinforcement bars for the neck? Steel or carbon fiber? What type of fret wire are you going to use? Neck wood? Fretboard wood? Nut material? Angled or straight headstock? Type of neck joint?

[rh15951]

Any noob can make a body, the neck is the real trick ;)

[Jordan_Frerichs]

Any noob can make a body, the neck is the real trick ;)

yeah, lol. kind of doing this as a progression. right know, my main focus, is gatering, and laminting the wood, then plaining it. when it comes to shaping it, i will leave a generous amout of space at the neck pocket, until i know what neck i want. anyone know any good places to learn the neck making from? if it proves to difficult for now, then i will probably just buy a neck.
also, that iron wood is pretty oily, will it still finish well with the rest of the bass? also, when it comes down to the pickup/neckjoint routering, anyone know where i can get the cnc mill codes for that?

[edgebass5]

pickup routing is usually done with a router, a plunge bit and a template. You can buy pickup templaets from stewmac.com and allparts.com... actually... I should say that all the pickups routing that I have ever done has been with a router.

[CCR90]

pickup routing is usually done with a router, a plunge bit and a template. You can buy pickup templaets from stewmac.com and allparts.com... actually... I should say that all the pickups routing that I have ever done has been with a router.

fds, i'm doin mine on my guitar with the milling machine. can have nice, precise lines without havin to buy a template.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

fds, i'm doin mine on my guitar with the milling machine. can have nice, precise lines without havin to buy a template.

dude, u know where i can get the cnc mill codes?

[Jordan_Frerichs]

would it be any harder to make if i went with a 5 string (provided i don't make the neck)? don't know yet if i want it yet. gonna hop on a mm5 when i get a chance to go to guitar center. i like the idea of not being forced to go so much tward the wider headstock frets. does the scale matter if it is 34", or 35"? what are some 5ers that don't have insanely wide necks, but still have good slap room?

[CCR90]

dude, u know where i can get the cnc mill codes?

I know jack about CNC machines. I wouldnt even bother. You could easily do it with a regular mill.

[edgebass5]

does the scale matter if it is 34", or 35"?

Here's a sentence that literally makes no sense :confused:

[Jordan_Frerichs]

Here's a sentence that literally makes no sense :confused:

i mean if i went with a five string. i know their is a debate over witch legnth is best
also, is a five string harder to do as whole, or about the same?

was brosing online, and found some nordstrand mms that looked pretty nice. they said the spacing matches ernie ball and olp mm basses (both the 4, and 5 string PU). have not tryed those basses yet, but hopefully that is the neck i want
if i go with the nordstrand mm5 pickup, and the stingray 5 neck, what 5 string p PUs match the spacing?

[edgebass5]

was brosing online, and found some nordstrand mms that looked pretty nice. they said the spacing matches ernie ball and olp mm basses (both the 4, and 5 string PU). have not tryed those basses yet, but hopefully that is the neck i want
if i go with the nordstrand mm5 pickup, and the stingray 5 neck, what 5 string p PUs match the spacing?

Those spacing measurements vary depending on where you locate the pickup. The further towards the bridge you go the wider the string spacing. The Nordstrand measurements are based on locating the MM pickup in the typical Stingray position. If you're doing a P/MM I would locate the MM further towards the bridge which is going to push the pole pieces out of alignment with the string spacing. The same goes for the P pickup. I would move it closer to the neck.

To make it easier on yourself I would suggest looking for pickups that use bar magnets instead of individual pole pieces. It'll remove the spacing issues created by individual pole pieces.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

Those spacing measurements vary depending on where you locate the pickup. The further towards the bridge you go the wider the string spacing. The Nordstrand measurements are based on locating the MM pickup in the typical Stingray position. If you're doing a P/MM I would locate the MM further towards the bridge which is going to push the pole pieces out of alignment with the string spacing. The same goes for the P pickup. I would move it closer to the neck.

To make it easier on yourself I would suggest looking for pickups that use bar magnets instead of individual pole pieces. It'll remove the spacing issues created by individual pole pieces.

will they have different sound that the individual poles? i want both of them in there respective places, that they would be found on a mm, and fender, wich is possible, just have to have barely, if any, space between them. mm pickups look way cooler exposed pole, but this gives me a slightly larger margin, i guess. what are some good pickups in the bar fasion?

[edgebass5]

will they have different sound that the individual poles?

No two pickups, regardless if they're exposed poles, exposed offset poles, bars, ceramic, alnico, neodynium, etc. etc. etc. will sound the same. So yes, pickup A will have a different sound than pickup B.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

ok, so what pickups sound the most simalar to seymour duncan quarter pounder (don't have to be bar, just want them to be 5 string), and nordstrand mm4.2 and mm5.2?

[edgebass5]

What pickup sounds similar to a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder P (very modern sounding, very deep low-end extension, lots of treble resopnse, moderately scooped midrange) and a Nordstrand MM4.2 (more of a vintage sounding pickup, not much in the way of deep low-end extension, lots of lower-mid content, muted upper register, basically flat midrange)....????

What pickup sounds similar to two pickups that are on almost opposite ends of the tonal spectrum... :lol: .... You've got me. Is this a riddle? :p

[rh15951]

What pickup sounds similar to a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder P (very modern sounding, very deep low-end extension, lots of treble resopnse, moderately scooped midrange) and a Nordstrand MM4.2 (more of a vintage sounding pickup, not much in the way of deep low-end extension, lots of lower-mid content, muted upper register, basically flat midrange)....????

What pickup sounds similar to two pickups that are on almost opposite ends of the tonal spectrum... :lol: .... You've got me. Is this a riddle? :p

Answer me these questions three...

[Jordan_Frerichs]

u think i should just go simpler since this is only my fist build, and make it a plain p, j, or mm? would it be any more difficult if i made it a five string? not 100% sure of my plans, but do u think it would be easier to make this a mm, j, or special p, and just rout my VM squier for a mm? i am getting confused. i want simple, yet original, and awsome.:confused:

[edgebass5]

Pickup routing isn't all that hard, and wiring in an additional pickup is pretty simple. Active components make things a bit trickier, but its definitely not out of the question.

As far as neck construction. I doubt that either will be easier for you as this is your first build. Honestly, this will be the hardest part.

No matter how you do it, or what parts you decide on, I would advise beyond a shadow of a doubt that you go simple for your first build. I would even advise trying to copy an existing design so that you have a working template for dimensions.

[muthafunkabass]

Make it headless and fretless, it will be a lot easier on you.

[edgebass5]

Make it headless and fretless, it will be a lot easier on you.

I'll agree in regards to making it fretless. Headless systems might seem easier, but how many headless basses have you played that did not function as well as advertised? The majority of headless basses that I've tried simply have not worked all that well. Status and the old Steinberg basses are the only ones I've tried that really nailed it.

[muthafunkabass]

The only ones I've tried and didn't like were the Hohners. It's like the advantages of a headless system that are supposed to be there weren't there. And I didn't like the B on the Steinberger Spirit 5 but I would probably have it tenor anyway.

And since he's designing this bass himself he can copy the good designs.

[edgebass5]

I like the old Steinbergs like the XL-1 and the XL-2. The new ones... bleh... No thanks. I've never played a Status headless that was anything less than perfect. As for the others I've tried... wow... no thanks.

[muthafunkabass]

What do you think is better about them?


And I played a David King Headless travel bass that was the best feeling bass I ever laid my hands on. If only I had that much money. :p

[edgebass5]

What do I think is better than them..??? I don't really understand your question.

David King makes ridiculously nice basses. I've only played one but it left me weak in the knees. Very expensive, but very high quality.

[muthafunkabass]

Sorry, I fixed it. Meant to put "about".

[edgebass5]

Ah! For one they actually seemed to hold their intonation unlike others I've tried. Furthermore it was possible to intonate them, unlike others I've tried :lol:

Moreover they functioned basically like a headed bass but without the mass at the end of the neck. That's how I feel they SHOULD behave... Not like some quasi good idea that didn't exactly pan out :p

[muthafunkabass]

My main problem is sustain. As backwards ergonomically a headstock may be, its resonation helps.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

neck is way too complicated. will buy that premade. ok, i think i will go simpler on the pickups. still debating on the 5 string or or not. if it is just as easy, why not, but otherwise, i don't know. i am debating on making this build a jazz, or a special p.
after i do this i will probably have more confidance in my skills, and router my VM squier p for a norstrand mm myself. leaving mm out of my from scratch body cause my squier will have a pickup switch when i am done with it, two in one and then some. lol:chug:
on the shape, yeah, simple, but once i have the template drawn, i plan to make a few minor changes in the shape for the sake of originality

[muthafunkabass]

The only thing if you do a 4, it would be easier than a 5 to find templates for since you're copying a design.



And do not put a pickup in your bass that costs more than it. Not to mention you can't put the MM in the sweet spot, it would be thinner than usual.

[CCR90]

tl;dr, building a neck is not hard, the hard part will be the fretboard if ur not going fretless.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

think i have my shape and look decided. the shape is a hybrid of a few basses, built for comfort. it has the leg contour of a fender jazz, the arm contour of an ibanez atk, the upper horn of a fender Precision, and the lower horn of an ibanez atk. wings of quilted maple, and the center is goingf to be figured purple heart.
heres is the shape outline, thanx to the help of the people at TalkBass
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402673

[HELLonWHEELS]

I like that body shape. It looks standard but you know its custom. I wouldn't use Purpleheart with the body. I think that might look funny. Use an Adler or Ash body and you can do a bookmatched quilted maple veneer if you wanted to.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

okay, working out the woods. i know that i want the top to look like one of these 4
1. quilted or flamed maple bookmatched at the center
2. quilted maple wings with a purple heart center
3. quilted maple wings with a purple heart center, and thin peices of iron wood on each side of the purple heart
4. quilted maple wings, center of (left to right) purple heart, iron wood, purple heart, iron wood purple heart (1st and last purple heart wider than the other PH and the IW. the PH and IW striped togeter at the center line)

then i am trying to figure out what the major wood will be. eith it will be as bright a wood as i can get, or very bright, but still some leanway to go for other sounds if i use the control knobs

[CCR90]

I like that body shape. It looks standard but you know its custom. I wouldn't use Purpleheart with the body. I think that might look funny. Use an Adler or Ash body and you can do a bookmatched quilted maple veneer if you wanted to.

lol wut

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/CCR90/Guitar10-1.jpg

[HELLonWHEELS]

lol wut

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/CCR90/Guitar10-1.jpg

Yeah I don't that looks particularly good. Do you have a pic of it when finished?

[CCR90]

Yeah I don't that looks particularly good. Do you have a pic of it when finished?

I will when its done. I'm waitin for parts so i can mill the body. Then sand it, then finish it.

[Jordan_Frerichs]

I will when its done. I'm waitin for parts so i can mill the body. Then sand it, then finish it.

hey, is that swamp ash, or regular? i have heard swamp ash has great all around sound qualitys and is light. it is also bright with some room to move around. im, think that will be my main wood. now for the top...
i tryed all the stores around here, didn't find anything useful. mostly oak and pine. some poplar

[CCR90]

hey, is that swamp ash, or regular? i have heard swamp ash has great all around sound qualitys and is light. it is also bright with some room to move around. im, think that will be my main wood. now for the top...
i tryed all the stores around here, didn't find anything useful. mostly oak and pine. some poplar

just regular

http://sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544585&highlight=CCR90

check that out. It shows the big piece of wood i got it from.