Jazz

[N S G]

Can someone tell me what are some of the cardinal rules (lyrics, music, theory, attitude, etc.) of Jazz.

What I am really concerned with is adding a jazz style to various other genres (mostly old fashioned rock).

Just say what you know, don't worry about writing me a thesis.

[uncus_my_son]

it cant be done like this
jazz take a lot more work to learn play than something like rock because its a lot more complex so i'd suggest if you are willing to put in that kind of effort then just learn solos and tunes
but just like any genre you wont be able to just read some posts and then understand

[N S G]

it cant be done like this
jazz take a lot more work to learn play than something like rock because its a lot more complex so i'd suggest if you are willing to put in that kind of effort then just learn solos and tunes
but just like any genre you wont be able to just read some posts and then understand
No, I mean just give some basic ideas. What makes Jazz, Jazz?

[uncus_my_son]

well thats another tough thing to answer cuz there are so many different types of jazz
one thing that i think is pretty common though among all subgenres is that ii V Is appear constantly
as you probably know a lot of it is about improvised soloing
but really jazz is just jazz the same way rock is rock
t is just a type of music and what makes it that type is just the sound


edit i pretty much just play swing at this point which is why i cant really speak too confidently about jazz as a whole

[traveller]

If you gotta ask, you'll never know.

-Louis Armstrong

nah im just kiddin. there's no exact definition of jazz. as uncusmyson said, a large part of it is improvisation. i think you only really gain some understanding when you start listening/playing the music. its impossible to say 'the definition of jazz is .....'

[myron]

theres no such thing as jazz influences in rock. In my opinion. throwing a minor chord into rock does not make it jazzy

[RyMac59]

theres no such thing as jazz influences in rock. In my opinion. throwing a minor chord into rock does not make it jazzy

Uh steely dan much? It's more than just a minor chord. And how about the entire jazz/rock genre "fusion". Your opinion is wrong.

[uncus_my_son]

Uh steely dan much? It's more than just a minor chord. And how about the entire jazz/rock genre "fusion". Your opinion is wrong.

dont fuk up this forum by starting to post like that man really not cool
in a way i agree w/ myron
fusion is an entire genre on its own we are talking about rock here
jazz has a sound and rock has a sound and i think there are things that make them different that couldnt very easily be combined
im not saying it couldnt be done but i think you would have to be very skilled at playing both genres to make it work

[GhostNote]

But how general can this thing be?! Saying 'Rock' with a bit of 'Jazz' in it isn't saying anything. They're both such vast genres, jazz especially because it's been developing for 80+ years. Maybe if a rock song had like m7b5#11 chords all throughout it, it might be considered 'jazzy' but even then it's just a guy playing different chords in a rock song.


-GN

[Thanks]

Why do you guys always have to try to make anyone that doesn't listen to a lot of jazz feel dumb?

[uncus_my_son]

Why do you guys always have to try to make anyone that doesn't listen to a lot of jazz feel dumb?

what thread do you think youre posting in
i dont see anyone in here doing that

[Babble]

characteristics of jazz are usually emphasis on improvisation, and syncopation (primarily the heavy beat on 2 and 4)

however, extended harmonies play a huge role and harmonic exploration is a big part of modern jazz..

swung eighths are big parts of bebop and swing. syncopated eights are a big part of latin jazz.

organ/guitar teams are a big thing in funk jazz.

walking basslines are very common in everything but latin jazz

[Nick]

tbqh I'd say fusion is adding rock elements to jazz and not the other way around


But still the strongest indicators of jazz in my opinion are swung 8ths and there's soooo much jazz that doesn't use them.

[nobodyblossomsforever]

You have two other threads asking the exact same thing except different genres lol

[myron]

Uh steely dan much? It's more than just a minor chord. And how about the entire jazz/rock genre "fusion". Your opinion is wrong.

my opinion is wrong? Im not familiar with steely dan, but at the risk of seeming ignorant, 'reeling in the years' is nothing like 'jazz'. Jazz is about improvising, which rock completely isnt. even the solos in rock are transcribed and played the same every time. Hardly a 'solo' at all.

Fusion is jazz musicians, taking elements of rock and making music out of it. Not a rock guitarist looking to put jazz 'influences' in his song. You are wrong there pal

[Yield]

What makes Jazz, Jazz?

Jazz is one of the most disputed genres ever. Some say jazz is improvised, and others say that it doesn't need improvisation. There are great examples for both sides of that. On one hand you've got some great swing where most everything was written out, and then you've got examples like Kind of Blue where the improvisation worked out great. Some people say Kenny G is jazz, others say he's just ****.

[Equus]

you know jazz when you hear it thats all

[GhostNote]

Jazz is one of the most disputed genres ever. Some say jazz is improvised, and others say that it doesn't need improvisation. There are great examples for both sides of that. On one hand you've got some great swing where most everything was written out, and then you've got examples like Kind of Blue where the improvisation worked out great. Some people say Kenny G is jazz, others say he's just ****.

Anyone who says Jazz doesn't need improvisation is a complete idiot.


-GN

[Thanks]

"It is becoming increasingly difficult to decide where jazz starts or where it stops, where Tin Pan Alley begins and jazz ends, or even where the borderline lies between between classical music and jazz. I feel there is no boundary line"
- Duke Ellington

[N S G]

You have two other threads asking the exact same thing except different genres lol
That was my point, I was going to do a sick and twisted amalgamation of certain genres for this one song.

Unfortunately, only you guys were mature enough to seriously post. Plus I only planned on adding Jazz in there so I could stand it.

And by Jazz up there I did mean fusion.

[Yield]

Favorite Musical Genre:Jazz

Why are you asking us what jazz is, if it's your favorite genre?

And when you say you're going to add jazz in there, do you mean like seriously throwing in some jazz as if you were Morphine, or just throw in a crazy time signature and say you have jazz influence as if you were Dillinger Escape Plan.

[Thanks]

Favorite Musical Genre:Jazz

Why are you asking us what jazz is, if it's your favorite genre?

And when you say you're going to add jazz in there, do you mean like seriously throwing in some jazz as if you were Morphine, or just throw in a crazy time signature and say you have jazz influence as if you were Dillinger Escape Plan.

More of this "I know more about everything than you do" attitude. You guys are gross.

[Yield]

More of this "I know more about everything than you do" attitude. You guys are gross.

What? Care to explain?

[uncus_my_son]

More of this "I know more about everything than you do" attitude. You guys are gross.

dude thanks you are being really retarded
everyone in here including yeild helped him out and all youve done is quote duke ellington and talk shi about all of us

[Pete Down I Go]

The idea of 'adding jazz' is a tough one (as you can tell by the shitstorm that's started on here).

It really depends what you mean exactly:

Singers like Sade were often credited with having a large jazz inclusion, but often at that time, this tag seemed to be warranted by simply involving more complex chords which, for me, doesn't equate something with jazz any more than it does with Romantic music.

If a more complex chiord sound is what you're aiming for, then do it.

Also, anyone in this thread who says that 'rock music contains no improvisation and the guitar solos are all transcribed' should try their benst to listen to some rock music where this isn't the case and never say that again.

Seriously, some of the unquestioned genre boundaries people seem to blindly accept on here make Wynton Marsalis sound like a progressionist.

To check in another quote from the Duke:

"I don't think there should be any kind of music called 'Jazz': If it sounds good, that's all you need."

[N S G]

I really don't know what I meant by Jazz, but I didn't mean making the song more complex.

I meant getting that Jazz feeling. If music all really is just glorified math problems, then I made a wrong turn somewhere.

[Pete Down I Go]

I really don't know what I meant by Jazz, but I didn't mean making the song more complex.

I meant getting that Jazz feeling. If music all really is just glorified math problems, then I made a wrong turn somewhere.

It's not about mathmatics, but, as people have said before, boiling 'jazz feeling' down to any one or few elements is a bit of a non starter, but, there may be some elements common in jazz music that you're looking for like different tones in a chord.

It's not really more complex as such, it's just different.

Also, someone earlier mentioned rhythm: the word 'syncopated' on its own doesn't really do this justice, but if you think about stressing accents between the beats as well as on them, then you'll also share an approach that's common in lots of Jazz music.

[RyMac59]

Listen to some 80's miles davis. Thats jazz/rock. Listen to Asia by steely dan, theres a lot of jazz influence there. Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, some stuff of of christian mcbride - live at tonic could even be concidered rock. It's all over the place. I just can't see how you could dispute the fact that there have been many jazz/rock cross overs. Jazz is such a vast genre that it's inevitable for a good chunk of it to be very rock like. If you don't think jazz/rock is the same as rock/jazz than we're just arguing semantics, which is pointless.

[N S G]

Wow... you guys are actually helpful, I think I might be staying.


But I do have another question, how important is speed and technicality to you personally?

[myron]

I strive to be technically correct on my instrument. with enough practice, speed comes. I dont think theres any real point practicing speed without having good technique, it will just cause injury and sloppiness.

[Pete Down I Go]

Wow... you guys are actually helpful, I think I might be staying.


But I do have another question, how important is speed and technicality to you personally?
Depends what you want to do.

As a jazz musician, a lot of people can play more notes than they need, ie when they play fast, it's always the same phrases that come up and they can't really 'think' at that speed.

If you practise in a way that encompasses a series of speeds (with a metronome, starting VERY slowly and working up gradually) then you'll find it seems far more natural in your playing.

Also, playing at speed means nothing without VERY good time: don't just practise on the clicks with the metronome, the spaces in between are very important.

[RyMac59]

Tons of players have speed. Few know what to do with it.