Religious Differences

[Meatplow]

This has never really affected my life until recently.

I was talking to a girl i've been friends with for sometime, and the topic got on to religion. I offered that i didn't know what to believe with all kinds of conflicting religious and philosophical ideas vying for attention, and she went on to tell me she was a Muslim.

Anyway long story short, we haven't talked since. :mad:

I offered to be accepting of her views but she ended up telling me i was hellbound, that there was no chance of anything but god's word being objective truth and that science and logic was bullshit.

I can't accept strong opinions like that, it's too confronting. Being someone i considered a friend it felt like an invisible barrier was put up right in front of us just because of our difference in belief. It got me thinking about how serious this divide really is between people, it's an old cliche that religion is the cause for nearly all wars i could believe it now.

Yes i am a sucker. Discuss religious differences of all kinds.

[griftadan]

sounds like your friend is a ****ing idiot, i'm surprised her stupidity didn't show up on your radar earlier

unless she's really hot or something

[lunchforthesky]

Religion sucks, your friend is an idiot, god is dead etc..

[Meatplow]

sounds like your friend is a ****ing idiot, i'm surprised her stupidity didn't show up on your radar earlier

unless she's really hot or something

She is fairly attractive. Besides that, she never gave any signs out we would have a discussion like this.

[Ganondorf]

Tell her she's a moron, sounds like she's using religion as an excuse to be agressive, not a reason.

[big80smullet]

I had a friend who i used to be pretty close with. Then she became a "real" christian. She started on at me to come to her church and have a "relationship" with god. It got to the point where i couldn' t even have a conversation with her cause she'd just start going on about jesus. She got married recently. It was well weird, god told her she was gonna marry this dude that turned up at her church and apparently god told him the same thing, so now at 21 years old they're married. I didn't go to the wedding and i haven't spoken to her face to face for about 3 years now. I really think that this ultra jesus trip she's been on kinda destroyed our friendship.

[griftadan]

well at least their self delusions are well timed

[Meatplow]

It seems to do that to people. To highlight an interesting convo i had with a friend on MSN before i think can be tied into context here -

Will says:i shitted off jayne man
Will says:lmfao
Will says:****n church
Haz says:why
Haz says:how
Will says:went off to her bout religion
Will says:LMFAO
Will says:told her there is no jesus christ
Will says:n hes a normal black dude like me
Will says:n got tortured like every other black man back in those days by white people
Will says:****kkkkkkkkk shes never gunna talkto me again
Will says:sehs gunan go off at me man
Will says:lmfao
Haz says:lol
Haz says:she told me that she's upset because whether or not you believe in him and his magic powers or not jesus was a real man who got killed in front of his mother
Will says:LMFAO
Will says:**** JESUS MAN
Will says:HES AGY
Will says:GAY
Will says:so does millions of other black people in africa man
Will says:they die
Will says:in front of their parents
Will says:thier parents die in front of their child
Will says:whts the ****n difference with jesus
Haz says:he died for our sins
Will says:what a crock of ****
Will says:so people in africa die for "our sins" aswell
Will says:??
Haz says:man ur a cunt
Haz says:not only are u a cunt, ur a misinformed cunt
Haz says:leave the christians alone, maybe some of em are dicks but some of em are good people
Will says:**** u ya cunt
Will says:i know some christian r good people
Will says:im jsut stating my opinion
Haz says:what opinion?
Haz says:
Will says:
LMFAO
Will says:
**** JESUS MAN
Will says:
HES AGY
Will says:
GAY
Will says:that jesus was a ****n normal person
Haz says:some opinion
Will says:**** u he was gay, n he a normal person like everyone else
Will says:theres one ****n god
Will says:thats it
Will says:someone created us all
Will says:n it wasnt ****n jesus
Will says:he was just a normal black guy like me
Haz says:jesus didn't create anybody.......
Will says:then whats all this **** about him dying for our sins
Haz says:he was whipped brutally to death by a bunch of sadistic jews
Will says:i understand that..n so was a million other black guys man
Will says:not only jesus
Will says:i wanna know what makes him so special when it happened to millions of othe rpeople back then
Will says:n even now
Haz says:he helped people
Haz says:travelled all around the world
Will says:so did other people
Haz says:not as much as he did
Will says:man other people did the exact same thing
Will says:n how the **** is mary a virgin
Will says:she was ****n shagged by a ****n man
Will says:like everyone shags in this ****n worod
Haz says:immaculate conception
Will says:what a crock os ****
Haz says:maybe so
Haz says:you have to take everything with a grain of salt with religion
Haz says:fact is, he was a real guy who was brutally tortured and killed after he helped a lot of people
Haz says:hence why he is so inspirational to many that he can stand up against a world of sin
Will says:so y cant someone else who was bashed bruetly back in those days who helped everyone aswell not be 'special' like jesus
Will says:lmfao jaynes pissed off majorly
Will says:aaaaaaahahaahahahahaahaa
Will says:****n hell why did i say if i had a bible that id piss on it right now
Haz says:why are you so against it man>?
Will says:just shits me off how many people get into this ****, then think theyre superior people n better than other people
Will says:n im not saying jayne is
Haz says:some people do yeah
Will says:i was just stating my opinion based on others
Haz says:i can understand that view
Will says:n its so bloody sad that people pour money into churches filled with pedos
Haz says:but when someone doesn't bash your beliefs (jayne is very respectful of them trust me) why go saying that ****
Haz says:wtf
Haz says:thats catholics
Will says:priests r ****n pedos
Will says:same thing
Haz says:and its not the majority of catholics
Haz says:lmao
Haz says:u are the most ignorant misinformed idiot i have ever met, i thought i was bad
Will says:****n gay *** ****ers
Haz says:lmao
Will says:lmfao thanks for the compliment
Haz says:i hope ur jus being a prick for the sake of being a prick
Haz says:seriously
Will says:no im being dead serious
Will says:**** all religions off
Will says:they put a roof over everytning
Will says:n brainwash people
Will says:just for ****n money

This is the other side of the argument i hate, people who completely dismiss religion like this. Even though earlier in the week i was having an argument with a girl over religious differences and it didn't end well because i am on the fence i still stand up for it for some reason. Is there any reason i should continue to do this? :mad:

[griftadan]

wtf jesus wasn't black

[big80smullet]

Thats the whole point. This guy is being completely ignorant

[Superfly]

I heard this in my international relations class:
Girl: "Atheists are just...gross... idiots, how can they believe theres no god!?"

Needless to say the silence which followed was extensive.

[Meatplow]

wtf jesus wasn't black

Thats the whole point. This guy is being completely ignorant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus

There actually is some debate over the race of Jesus, this friend of mine is a Fijian. He brings it up everytime Jesus gets mentioned for some reason i've just gotten used to it :/

[big80smullet]

I heard this in my international relations class:
Girl: "Atheists are just...gross... idiots, how can they believe theres no god!?"

Needless to say the silence which followed was extensive.

how can she blindly believe what the bible says when she has no proof of its sources.

Im not trying to rag on christians but people who are ignorant, on either side of an argument annoy me.

[dei]

Most everyone I know is Catholic and we've never had problems. The only person that freaked out on me when I told them I am atheist was my grandmother but that's understandable. My great-grandparents were very strongly religious like I guess most people were at the time.

[Yield]

I used to have a friend, and she would just not leave me the **** alone about being an atheist. So one day she convinced me to go to church with her, and the next day I read a passage from Nietzsche for a project (to screw with her). She was a baptist, we are no longer friends, she was also a pretentious bitch.

Religion sucks, your friend is an idiot, god is dead etc..

this

[big80smullet]

Since i moved back in with my parents, they've been forcing me to go to church. I went along with it for a few weeks but now i've started refusing on the grounds that i dont believe in it ive been getting the old "my house my rules" schpiel. Meh its just one of the downsides of being agnostic in a christian household.

[bradc1988]

Your friend Will is a twat.

I really

hate people

who talk in msn

like this

Anyway, luckily the first time I've ever had a really religious friend was at Uni! And I didn't even know it until we were talking about our high schools, his being catholic. He's cool though so I don't have any problems. I don't know how I would respond if someone confronted my beliefs...well lack thereof.

[Luc214]

This has never really affected my life until recently.

I was talking to a girl i've been friends with for sometime, and the topic got on to religion. I offered that i didn't know what to believe with all kinds of conflicting religious and philosophical ideas vying for attention, and she went on to tell me she was a Muslim.

Anyway long story short, we haven't talked since. :mad:

I offered to be accepting of her views but she ended up telling me i was hellbound, that there was no chance of anything but god's word being objective truth and that science and logic was bullshit.

That's what I hate about religion. I'm religious myself tbh, but to say that science and logic is bullshit and "evil" or whatever, is just moronic.

[TheDarkHorse]

it's an old cliche that religion is the cause for nearly all wars i could believe it now.

This is silly.

If one's religion teaches them to love their neighbor as themself, it would be nonsensical to preach such a wrathful message to their friend.

On the same note, I wouldn't necessarily say its religion (which is just a label one can identify with) thats the cause of division in all cases, but rather philosophy (conviction or belief held). It could be religion, depending on how naive the person is.

[Dave de Sylvia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus

There actually is some debate over the race of Jesus, this friend of mine is a Fijian. He brings it up everytime Jesus gets mentioned for some reason i've just gotten used to it :/
It's extremely unlikely he was anything but Mediterranean semitic in appearance.

[Mr. Ron]

This has never really affected my life until recently.

I was talking to a girl i've been friends with for sometime, and the topic got on to religion. I offered that i didn't know what to believe with all kinds of conflicting religious and philosophical ideas vying for attention, and she went on to tell me she was a Muslim.

Anyway long story short, we haven't talked since. :mad:

I offered to be accepting of her views but she ended up telling me i was hellbound, that there was no chance of anything but god's word being objective truth and that science and logic was bullshit.

I can't accept strong opinions like that, it's too confronting. Being someone i considered a friend it felt like an invisible barrier was put up right in front of us just because of our difference in belief. It got me thinking about how serious this divide really is between people, it's an old cliche that religion is the cause for nearly all wars i could believe it now.

Yes i am a sucker. Discuss religious differences of all kinds.
lmao. Tell that bitch to stop being retarded and come back to reality.

[Reaganista]

i try to avoid irl associations with anyone who ever entertains the possibility of god
but then again i dont have any friends so ymmv

[Mr. Ron]

Some lady Handed me a "Jesus is the only one that can save America" flier, today at work and just sort of stared at her.

[big80smullet]

There was this americam dude yelling at people in picadilly circus. He'd been there for hours so we bought him a coffee and a p0rno. He drank the coffee, but we didn't see him chick the p0rno. He probably had a good old wank to it.

[Kaleid]

There's a guy in our town centre who actually carries a megaphone around with him, booming out messages about scripture and damnation, frightening little old ladies and getting chewing gum spat at him by the local "We wear t-shirts with SATAN on" gang

[Jude]

As always, people who are obnoxiously atheist are inexplicably more annoying than people who are obnoxiously religious.

[pulseczar]

I was raised Catholic, but now I'm atheist. I was really disgusted at how much misogyny, and corruption there was, and the fear instilled into people so blindly. I can't say I'm a typical angsty atheist, though, as the realizations of what the religion really was to me was really just another way of growing up into what the world. I try to be tolerant of every view, the only time I argue with someone is when they try to push Christianity on me, because it's still a personal thing to me. Even with toleration, though, it becomes hard to maintain and makes the mood subtly uncomfortable when your with someone you find to have obtuse religious views.
As always, people who are obnoxiously atheist are inexplicably more annoying than people who are obnoxiously religious.

I disagree. I think the point is not what view they choose, but how they present it, or rather, how obnoxiously they present it.

[Lupus]

I disagree. At leasts atheists are right

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

I'm rarely do this but when someone really really needs to tell me about jesus, I very innocuously try to ask them what they think about that I'm going to hell and theres no hope in eternity for me. It may slightly cause them to backtrack or at least think a little wee bit, and I don't argue with them but I accept what they say. And that's how I handle religious differences.

[Kaleid]

People who are obnoxiously atheistic are obnoxious because they come across as arrogant and condescending.
People who are obnoxiously religious are obnoxious because they come across as stubborn and belligerent.

It's best for both sides to try and not be obnoxious. They could gain more respect for their views that way

[Kingofdudes]

As always, people who are obnoxiously atheist are inexplicably more annoying than people who are obnoxiously religious.

Meh, I don't know. Ted Haggard doesn't even have to say one word to make me wish I could punch him in the face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ted_Haggard_%28ROAE%29.jpg
I mean come on, just look at him!

Richard Dawkins gets groupies at least >_>
http://richarddawkins.net/photos/dc_va10-06/0.jpg

[Kaleid]

Meh, I don't know. Ted Haggard doesn't even have to say one word to make me wish I could punch him in the face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ted_Haggard_%28ROAE%29.jpg
I mean come on, just look at him!

"No higher resolution available"
There is a God!

[Mr. Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBC5L6cyq2Y

[hethamulburton]

Meh, I don't know. Ted Haggard doesn't even have to say one word to make me wish I could punch him in the face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ted_Haggard_%28ROAE%29.jpg
I mean come on, just look at him!

Richard Dawkins gets groupies at least >_>
http://richarddawkins.net/photos/dc_va10-06/0.jpg

Dawkins is far more a reliable source on the matter than a book of metaphors.

[M3LL0NC0LL13]

I'm somewhere between agnostic and atheist. I don't BELIEVE there's a god, but I don't know if I'm right or wrong. I know that there's nothing that makes my belief any more correct than a christian's.

My school's extremely christian and it's gotten to be very annoying. I don't know that many people know that I'm not a christian, but I've never really been confronted about it by anyone other than my parents. However, when my parents bring it up, telling me how i'm wrong and ****, I just tell them to read a science book. It might seem like the typical obnoxious atheist attitude, but if christians can rely on the bible as their source of information, i'm allowed to bring up science.

EDIT: Also, I'm not one of the atheist/agnostic kids who are just trying to be rebellious. It just seems like a lot of religion is about putting down people who are different, whether it's race, beliefs, sexuality, etc. I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of that.

[lfantwister]

my school had a "kegger for christ" on saturday...

with root beer

[Reaganista]

somebody actually put root beer in a keg?

[Mr. Ron]

it was for christ, you see.

[lfantwister]

and people drank it, yes

[Reaganista]

well drinking it i can understand, especially if you were at first confused about the specifics

[telemore]

wow, this beer tastes really weird. is this some crazy import or something? man you guys do it up. oh, christ. this is some christian thing. goddammit.

[Hedgedive]

TS I had a similar experience recently.

I'm not really sure what to refer to myself as, but I'll just say I'm some kind of theist. I learned that this girl I'm friends with is really hXc Christian. I don't mind really religious people, but when they're really judgemental of others' beliefs, it totally ruins my image of them (which it did for her). basically she told me Ghandi was burning in hell cause he didn't accept JC as his savior 0_o.

:/

[big80smullet]

my school had a "kegger for christ" on saturday...

with root beer

A mate of my mate bought a keg. they were all drinking it and getting pissed of it. My mate turned up and they were drinking Carling C2, which is a half strength lager. They all got so much crap for being pissed of it.

[Hedgedive]

tbh I love all root beer despite its religious affiliation

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

oh im so nice to all the flowers and bunny and unborn fetuses lalalala oh ya you're going to hell

[big80smullet]

I can't stand root beer. It tastes like medicine in a beverage format

[Meatplow]

I don't mind really religious people, but when they're really judgemental of others' beliefs, it totally ruins my image of them (which it did for her). basically she told me Ghandi was burning in hell cause he didn't accept JC as his savior 0_o.:/

Yeah i hate that line of thinking, i posed a similar question to this girl i was talking about asking what happens to someone who is a good person but doesn't follow the "correct" religious path or even a religious path at all.

Her response was "if you created the world, and all of existence, imagine there is someone who pays you tribute everyday, appreciating everything you have created and basking in your glory. Now imagine there is person who lives a life on a path that strays from your light, ignoring and disrespecting everything you have created in favour of an existance that takes everything away from you without one iota of appreciation. Who would you let into your eternal kingdom?"

Argh.

[Oriah]

Yeah i hate that line of thinking, i posed a similar question to this girl i was talking about asking what happens to someone who is a good person but doesn't follow the "correct" religious path or even a religious path at all.

Her response was "if you created the world, and all of existence, imagine there is someone who pays you tribute everyday, appreciating everything you have created and basking in your glory. Now imagine there is person who lives a life on a path that strays from your light, ignoring and disrespecting everything you have created in favour of an existance that takes everything away from you without one iota of appreciation. Who would you let into your eternal kingdom?"

Argh.

Woa.... Like you THAT kind of religious judgmental talk pisses me the F*kc Off.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Man, this shi't is close to home.

I've been madly in love with this one girl since like 9th grade and never done a single thing about it cause she's part of the jesus crowd.

[Luc214]

Yeah i hate that line of thinking, i posed a similar question to this girl i was talking about asking what happens to someone who is a good person but doesn't follow the "correct" religious path or even a religious path at all.

Her response was "if you created the world, and all of existence, imagine there is someone who pays you tribute everyday, appreciating everything you have created and basking in your glory. Now imagine there is person who lives a life on a path that strays from your light, ignoring and disrespecting everything you have created in favour of an existance that takes everything away from you without one iota of appreciation. Who would you let into your eternal kingdom?"

Argh.

Ask her how does she know that our very existance is not pleasing to this being.

[Jude]

I disagree. I think the point is not what view they choose, but how they present it, or rather, how obnoxiously they present it.

But like

At least religious people believe they're doing some good by spreading their message

If you're an atheist then there's no real good that can come of your spreading your beliefs even if you're right so there's no need to be annoying. Unless you're one of those retards that thinks religion causes wars or something.

And if your views are so rational and based on reason then you should be able to see why it's reasonable to shut up and stop being an annoying bitch about it.

[Luc214]

But like

At least religious people believe they're doing some good by spreading their message

If you're an atheist then there's no real good that can come of your spreading your beliefs even if you're right so there's no need to be annoying. Unless you're one of those retards that thinks religion causes wars or something.

And if your views are so rational and based on reason then you should be able to see why it's reasonable to shut up and stop being an annoying bitch about it.

And sometimes their message does help people whether it's real or not.

[ringworm]

As always, people who are obnoxiously atheist are inexplicably more annoying than people who are obnoxiously religious.
i have to agree

as for the TS, i usually found i enjoyed people who were different than me to date, but i guess a hardcore religious person would clash with a hardcore atheist, but if you're really comfortable in your beliefs and yourself, it shouldnt really matter

some of the best relationships i had were with people radically different than i was

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

There are a lot of people who are idiotic about religion e.g. using it as an excuse to be intolerant pricks, there are also many atheists who are the same. There are a lot of religious people who will still talk to people who don't share their precise beliefs; the same goes for atheists.

There are also many irrational and misinformed religious people, as there are just as many of an atheistic persuasion (the guy called Will on the first page for example). There are also people up for rational debate on both sides.

I think is really all we can say about the subject.

And Jesus was almost certainly not black, more likely some "Jewish", mediterranean, or Middle Eastern, or a combination, in appearance, given where he came from.

The thing which is annoys me is the absolute certainty that some people have about things which are essentially unprovable (and also un-disprovable). It's fine, or rather good, or rather essential, that people have beliefs of some type (not necessarily religious), but to use that as an excuse to be totally close-minded is just annoying, just as it is if someone is using religion or lack of it as an excuse for being so, or being ignorant.

e.g. Me and my good friend were talking about politics when Gordon Brown just took over as Prime Minister, and I was like "i think he might be quite a good change" and he said something like "Yeah, shame that he is religious though. I said something along the lines of "so what? It doesn't really matter to me; what matters is what he does." Then he made what I consider to be a bit of an idiotic comment of something like "Well I'd rather not have a man who believes in an imaginary man inside his head giving orders in charge of the country". well.

[hethamulburton]

There are a lot of people who are idiotic about religion e.g. using it as an excuse to be intolerant pricks, there are also many atheists who are the same. There are a lot of religious people who will still talk to people who don't share their precise beliefs; the same goes for atheists.

There are also many irrational and misinformed religious people, as there are just as many of an atheistic persuasion (the guy called Will on the first page for example). There are also people up for rational debate on both sides.

I think is really all we can say about the subject.

And Jesus was almost certainly not black, more likely some "Jewish", mediterranean, or Middle Eastern, or a combination, in appearance, given where he came from.

The thing which is annoys me is the absolute certainty that some people have about things which are essentially unprovable (and also un-disprovable). It's fine, or rather good, or rather essential, that people have beliefs of some type (not necessarily religious), but to use that as an excuse to be totally close-minded is just annoying, just as it is if someone is using religion or lack of it as an excuse for being so, or being ignorant.

e.g. Me and my good friend were talking about politics when Gordon Brown just took over as Prime Minister, and I was like "i think he might be quite a good change" and he said something like "Yeah, shame that he is religious though. I said something along the lines of "so what? It doesn't really matter to me; what matters is what he does." Then he made what I consider to be a bit of an idiotic comment of something like "Well I'd rather not have a man who believes in an imaginary man inside his head giving orders in charge of the country". well.

Zeitgeist Part 1... Google it, Jesus was not a real human being. So, you're all wrong.

Here's a small taste:
http://www.friendscommunities.org/showthread.php?t=16402
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQLD59fK_Iw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgJIt_sxWcw

[Mr. Ron]

Like I said, don't base what you believe on a single piece of "evidence".

[hethamulburton]

Like I said, don't base what you believe on a single piece of "evidence".

That is simply a collection of many other people's opinions. So, it really is many sources, that arrived at the same point... and is collected all in this one video. In that sense, I feel you can believe it.

[Lupus]

If you're an atheist then there's no real good that can come of your spreading your beliefs even if you're right so there's no need to be annoying. Unless you're one of those retards that thinks religion causes wars or something. You think it's in people's best interests to make decisions on the assumption that a non existent being exists? Some religions have a massive impact on morality and how a person fundamentally views the world. Not only does it alter a person's way of life but ingrains itself in society in such a way that it still affects cultural norms, even in secular societies. From an atheist's perspective there's a lot of good that can come from spreading your beliefs.


And religion does cause wars you ****ing idiot.

[Mr. Ron]

That is simply a collection of many other people's opinions. So, it really is many sources, that arrived at the same point... and is collected all in this one video. In that sense, I feel you can believe it.

I do think that the evidence for jesus is shaky, and I have seen those videos, but I haven't come to my own personal conclusion yet.

[Ganondorf]

You think it's in people's best interests to make decisions on the assumption that a non existent being exists? Some religions have a massive impact on morality and how a person fundamentally views the world. Not only does it alter a person's way of life but ingrains itself in society in such a way that it still affects cultural norms, even in secular societies. From an atheist's perspective there's a lot of good that can come from spreading your beliefs.


And religion does cause wars you ****ing idiot.

Yeah man, those 10 Commandments are so bad for us :rolleyes:Seriously, this ''religion causes war'' stuff is bs, I know for sure most of the world religions fundamentally are against needless violence, the problem isn't religion but how people use/manipulate it for non-religious reasons.

Believe me, even without religion there would still be alot of violence in this world.

[Ganondorf]

For example, the Israel/Palestine conflict, it would be naiive to dismiss religion as a cause, but it's just as much as part of it as nationalism, self defence and being terrotorial.

[Lupus]

Yeah man, those 10 Commandments are so bad for us :rolleyes:Well they haven't harmed us really but how much they've actually helped is dubious. And way to bring up one aspect of one religion as if that means anything. How about the sexual oppression religion has been perpetrating on society for thousands of years? Seriously, this ''religion causes war'' stuff is bs, I know for sure most of the world religions fundamentally are against needless violence, the problem isn't religion but how people use/manipulate it for non-religious reasons.
If you don't believe there are people out there who feel that violence is a good way to appease god and have a genuine hatred of people with other beliefs, you're incredibly retarded.

Seriously, religion has been causing wars for ages this **** should be obvious
Believe me, even without religion there would still be alot of violence in this world.
No ****, who said there wouldn't?

[hethamulburton]

I do think that the evidence for jesus is shaky, and I have seen those videos, but I haven't come to my own personal conclusion yet.

That's respectable.

[Meatplow]

Yeah man, those 10 Commandments are so bad for us :rolleyes:Seriously, this ''religion causes war'' stuff is bs, I know for sure most of the world religions fundamentally are against needless violence, the problem isn't religion but how people use/manipulate it for non-religious reasons.

Believe me, even without religion there would still be alot of violence in this world.

For all it's extreme criticism the reason i defend religion here is because i partially agree with what you say here, that most of the world's religions strongly focus on life and not bringing about death to non-believers. Where the problem lies for me is the nature of conflict, when two religions cannot agree there is tension and a potential for war which has escalated many times in the past.

Can i ask a question, you say people use/manipulate it for non-religious reasons. I'm a little confused here, it seems to imply people have their own personal agenda they want to use religion as an excuse for. If people interpret religious ideas to determine they can destroy non-believers or other nefarious ideas, would it not be the religion to blame? If is is misinterpreted due to ambiguity it is flawed and dangerous, and if it is interpreted correctly it is flawed and dangerous.

[Light Fantastic]

e.g. Me and my good friend were talking about politics when Gordon Brown just took over as Prime Minister, and I was like "i think he might be quite a good change" and he said something like "Yeah, shame that he is religious though. I said something along the lines of "so what? It doesn't really matter to me; what matters is what he does." Then he made what I consider to be a bit of an idiotic comment of something like "Well I'd rather not have a man who believes in an imaginary man inside his head giving orders in charge of the country". well.wait why is that an idiotic comment

[Reaganista]

Yeah man, those 10 Commandments are so bad for us
not really but the misogyny, shame and xenophobia are

Seriously, this ''religion causes war'' stuff is bs, I know for sure most of the world religions fundamentally are against needless violence, the problem isn't religion but how people use/manipulate it for non-religious reasons.
the fact that religion can be manipulated to justify things like genocide is a problem and a failure of religion

[Jude]

You think it's in people's best interests to make decisions on the assumption that a non existent being exists? Some religions have a massive impact on morality and how a person fundamentally views the world. Not only does it alter a person's way of life but ingrains itself in society in such a way that it still affects cultural norms, even in secular societies. From an atheist's perspective there's a lot of good that can come from spreading your beliefs.
[quote]
Well sure and even if Jesus isn't real the world would still be a better place if there were more Mother Theresa's or Martin Luther Kings or what have you

And religion does cause wars you ****ing idiot.

Name one and I'll explain why it was caused by factors other than religion and religion was either dragged into it, used as a justification or retroactively applied as justification

Well there's probably a few here and there that were straight up over religion but pretty much all wars are about controlling land and resources. Ethnicity, race, religion, national borders, and so forth are just what decides who's on which side. The wars would get fought either way.


If you don't believe there are people out there who feel that violence is a good way to appease god and have a genuine hatred of people with other beliefs, you're incredibly retarded.

Um, and if you don't believe there are people who believe the fact that they live on one side of an imaginary line makes them better than people on the other side, then you're retarded, but that doesn't mean countries "cause wars" or "cause hatred" or whatever. People are just xenophobic douchebags in general. Blaming on religion makes no sense.

Seriously, religion has been causing wars for ages this **** should be obvious

Like I said name one

[wartree]

Declare her HOLY WAR

[Lupus]

Well sure and even if Jesus isn't real the world would still be a better place if there were more Mother Theresa's or Martin Luther Kings or what have you
Religion has been impeding humanity since its invention, the fact that some christians do nice things doesn't mean ****
Name one and I'll explain why it was caused by factors other than religion and religion was either dragged into it, used as a justification or retroactively applied as justification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_wars
Well there's probably a few here and there that were straight up over religion but pretty much all wars are about controlling land and resources. Ethnicity, race, religion, national borders, and so forth are just what decides who's on which side. The wars would get fought either way.
No that's bullshit. You can't just say the wars would get fought either way, what the ****? Wars have causes and religion is a cause of war. Just seeing the violence and disunity religious differences cause at a social level should make that obvious.
Um, and if you don't believe there are people who believe the fact that they live on one side of an imaginary line makes them better than people on the other side, then you're retarded, but that doesn't mean countries "cause wars" or "cause hatred" or whatever. People are just xenophobic douchebags in general. Blaming on religion makes no sense.Anything that creates divisions between different groups has the potential to cause war. The difference is countries have been of benefit to humanity while religion hasn't.

Also consider that some religions (or parts of them) actually encourage violence towards people of other beliefs

[Smokey D]

Like I said name one

Um, the Arab conquests, the conquest of Saxony, the Crusades, the Wars of Religion, the 30 Years War, Israel-Palestine. There are others.

The problem is you're talking about religion and violence as a binary when pretty much no-one who would fight a holy war would think like that. And regardless of whether war would still happen in the absence of religion, religion forms the basis for justifying at least in part many historical wars.

[recklessrick]

Organized religion is money pay to pray,you don't need priests and rabbis just your faith and noone else, Who needs to know your beliefs or business? Keep it to youself.

[Reaganista]

Um, and if you don't believe there are people who believe the fact that they live on one side of an imaginary line makes them better than people on the other side, then you're retarded, but that doesn't mean countries "cause wars" or "cause hatred" or whatever
um actually the nation-state does cause wars

[hethamulburton]

Um, the Arab conquests, the conquest of Saxony, the Crusades, the Wars of Religion, the 30 Years War, Israel-Palestine. There are others.

The problem is you're talking about religion and violence as a binary when pretty much no-one who would fight a holy war would think like that. And regardless of whether war would still happen in the absence of religion, religion forms the basis for justifying at least in part many historical wars.

Not to mention other violent acts done on the basis of religion:

-Salem Witch Trials
-Sacrificial killings, some by a member of the worshipping society, some by a prisoner of the worshipping society-- like from war
-Large portion of terrorism- Islam, Jewish based
-Ku Klux Klan-- made a strong point of being a Christian organization and often used this to justify its active stance against desegregation and racial integration

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,,660473,00.html

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_early.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_inquisition.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_crusades.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_reformation.htm

http://atheism.about.com/od/christianityviolence/a/witches.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_holocaust.htm
The Hitler one, not so much, but we all understand it was religious based: to kill all the Jews.

As with the Russian Pogroms earlier in the same century.

Religious conflicts
Civil wars that are fought over religion have tended to occur more in monotheistic than in polytheistic societies; one explanation is that the latter tend to be more "flexible" in terms of dogma, allowing for some latitude in belief. In Europe through the Middle Ages, the Christianity of the great bulk of the population was influenced by pagan tradition. With the great majority of the population illiterate, access to the Bible was limited and led to a significant amount of syncretism between Christian and pagan elements. With religion so loosely applied, it was rare for people to feel particularly oppressed by it. There were periodic appearances of heresies, such as that of the Albigensians, which led to violence, but historians tend to view these to be the product of peasant revolts rather than themselves motivators of a civil war.

As religions tended to become more rigidly defined and understood by their followers, inter-religious tensions generally increased. The rise of Islam witnessed a rash of uprisings against non-Islamic rulers soon after its appearance. Subsequent Islamic history has been marked by repeated civil conflicts, mostly stemming out of the Shi'ite-Sunni divide. In Europe the Protestant Reformation had a similar effect, sparking years of both civil and international wars of religion. Civil wars between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism consumed France in the Wars of Religion, the Netherlands during the Eighty Years' War, Germany during the Thirty Years' War, and more recently, The Troubles of Northern Ireland. Religious disputes among Protestant sects also played a role in the English Civil Wars, while official persecution of Catholics during the French Revolution spurred the Revolt in the Vendée. In China an attempt at religious revolution caused the bloodiest civil war of all time, the Taiping Rebellion.

I'm sure there are dozens of other conflicts from before recorded time that involved two people fighting because their rock god was better than the other's pebble goddess. In fact, the reason for the extensive amount of gods and goddesses in pagan religions is that, through war, trade, alliances etc. the various deities coalesce into one religion.

Rome before it became a Christian empire was extremely violent towards Christians, killing them and such, Nero was a huge player in the matter.

Nero, always a man desparate to be popular, therefore looked for scapegoats on whom the fire could be blamed. He found it in an obscure new religious sect, the Christians.
And so many Christians were arrested and thrown to the wild beasts in the circus, or they were crucified . Many of them were also burned to death at night, serving as 'lighting' in Nero's gardens, while Nero mingled among the watching crowds.
It is this brutal persecution which immortalized Nero as the first Antichrist in the eyes of the Christian church. (The second Antichrist being the reformist Luther by edict of the Catholic Church.)

So as you see, much violence has been geared towards, or caused by various religious groups and until one day when all religions are the same, or they give up their idea of a God, we will never find peace. But in the same sense, we'll never find peace anyway because we are all materialistic... if you have made a Santa Claus wish list-- you too are materialistic. If you have ever wanted to buy something you knew you did not need... materialistic. We're all guilty of it, and politicians like land and power a lot, so we'll fight regardless of whether we say it's for God or not.

[Dave de Sylvia]

haha atheism.about.com

[hethamulburton]

haha atheism.about.com

I know, found that funny myself.

[Jude]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_wars

A religious war is a war justified by religious differences.
I can use anything to justify a war but that doesn't make the thing bad.
The Crusades are a good one so let me point out
The Crusades were a series of military campaigns—usually sanctioned by the Papacy—that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. Originally, the goal was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land
Note that the goal is to capture a chunk of land. This is what basically all wars come down to. Sometimes the land has religious significance but in my eyes it's no different from fighting over land for any other reason. The Crusades were a pretty bad one though; one of the closest things to a purely religious war.

I assume you know, of course, that war is completely antithetical to Christianity's basic tenets and that saying Christianity is bad because it's been used to justify wars is like saying America's system of free enterprise and respect for civil liberties is bad because corporations have sometimes exploited people.


No that's bullshit. You can't just say the wars would get fought either way, what the ****? Wars have causes and religion is a cause of war. Just seeing the violence and disunity religious differences cause at a social level should make that obvious.
And so if we got rid of religion, those things would stop happening?

No. Most cases, religion is just another factor that divides people, whether it's race, culture, language, location, class, whatever. In most conflicts where religion plays into it, it's just one of many reasons why people are feuding (well, the real reason is that people are ****ing douchebags, but these are surface causes). Saying that religion causes these things and so should be gotten rid of or is bad, is like saying that everyone should be made to speak the same language, genetically engineered to look the same, have their cultures and traditions erased and all act the same and think the same, in order to stop conflict from happening.

I'm assuming you don't hold that view.

Anything that creates divisions between different groups has the potential to cause war. The difference is countries have been of benefit to humanity while religion hasn't.
1. What have countries done that's so great
2. I love that you're still insisting religion has never done anybody any good

Also consider that some religions (or parts of them) actually encourage violence towards people of other beliefs
So do some cultural values so culture must be a bad thing that must be eradicated!

The problem is you're talking about religion and violence as a binary when pretty much no-one who would fight a holy war would think like that. And regardless of whether war would still happen in the absence of religion, religion forms the basis for justifying at least in part many historical wars.
What I'm talking about is, barely anybody ever just gets up and says, "God told me to go kill these people." Even when religion does get used as a justification for war, 99.9% of the time, you'll notice that "these people" have some land/resources/women/political position/blood feud/have offended the people starting the war/whatever.

-Salem Witch Trials
True although that had as much to do with folk superstition as with what we'd call "religion" now

-Sacrificial killings, some by a member of the worshipping society, some by a prisoner of the worshipping society-- like from war
Also true

-Large portion of terrorism- Islam, Jewish based
Note that territorial fighting is the actual cause here and ethnicity, culture, history, and language are other dividing factors besides religion

-Ku Klux Klan-- made a strong point of being a Christian organization and often used this to justify its active stance against desegregation and racial integration

1. You can't be much less Christian than them
2. They were about race and social issues, the Christian thing was a front to make themselves look more respectable in the eyes of America

So as you see, much violence has been geared towards, or caused by various religious groups and until one day when all religions are the same, or they give up their idea of a God, we will never find peace.

See, this attitude is the basis of the problem. While it's true that all kinds of violence has been justified by religion and even partially caused by it, it's important to remember that virtually never does a society decide to up and kill another society just because their religions are different. There is almost always something to be gained or a score to be settled, and the other factors (also natural parts of human life) that divide people are just as guilty as religion, so it makes no sense to single out religion as the one aspect of human culture that needs to go. And trying to convince yourself that getting rid of religion will stop war is the most retarded thing ever.

[Smokey D]

What I'm talking about is, barely anybody ever just gets up and says, "God told me to go kill these people." Even when religion does get used as a justification for war, 99.9% of the time, you'll notice that "these people" have some land/resources/women/political position/blood feud/have offended the people starting the war/whatever.

People say that all the time.

For example, while the Crusades was about exerting power over the East and reclaiming the Holy Land, this was conceived of as a religious goal, not a secular one. The formula was something like 'God told me to take back Palestine from the infidel and while we're at it wouldn't it be a good idea to take control of its pilgrim revenues and maybe even set up some baronial estates'.


This is from an essay of mine on the Crusades:

Why, then, of all the territories where Islam and Christianity were in conflict did the Holy Land become such an important destination for the crusaders? When the Latins chose to attack Muslim Palestine, they effectively thwarted the prospect of a powerful long-term Christian presence in the East. That is, in directing their efforts towards Jerusalem, the crusaders diverged from the military goals of the Byzantines. As such, the united Christian force that could have quite conceivably pushed the Turks out of Anatolia and restored the Eastern Empire to its former, formidable strength was never created. At the same time, structural limitations prevented Westerners from ever becoming strong enough to preserve their conquests indefinitely, which essentially guaranteed an eventual Muslim resurgence. This apparent lack of strategic foresight baffles the modern reader, yet to the crusaders the Holy Land seemed the logical and pre-eminent objective for their armed pilgrimage. Understanding this position requires consideration of the unique role played by Jerusalem in medieval Christian piety and the growing estrangement between the Eastern and Western halves of the Church. It is unclear how heavily emphasised Jerusalem was in the original proclamation of the First Crusade by Urban II. However, it seems that even if he did not mention it in the original sermons, the popular response to his preaching was centred on the city, and his message changed to accommodate that fact. Popular Christian thought was particularly concerned with the fate of Jerusalem at this point; only some fifty years earlier the Holy Sepulchre had been destroyed by Caliph al-Hakim. Further, the Seljuk Turks had recently seized control of the city, and placed restrictions on Christian pilgrimage. This reacted violently with the growth in martial spirituality outlined above. The crusaders viewed themselves as not only participating in a just war under the banner of Christ, but also as pilgrims to the greatest relic in the world: the holy city of Jerusalem. Part of this process entailed cleansing the corruptive influence of infidel occupation, making it far easier to justify atrocities such as the massacre that followed the fall of Jerusalem in 1099. A major theme of the crusading ideology was that the crusaders had by virtue of their actions become the new Israelites or Maccabees. As soldiers for God, the crusaders were justified – even sanctified – in their actions so as long as their successes continued.

[Reaganista]

I can use anything to justify a war
no you can only use the types of things that people are willing to kill and die over to justify a war
but that doesn't make the thing bad.
yes it does

[Jude]

People say that all the time.

For example, while the Crusades was about exerting power over the East and reclaiming the Holy Land, this was conceived of as a religious goal, not a secular one. The formula was something like 'God told me to take back Palestine from the infidel and while we're at it wouldn't it be a good idea to take control of its pilgrim revenues and maybe even set up some baronial estates'.



Well yeah, lots of wars are conceived as religious and not secular, partly because that makes them more glamorous and easier to sell. However, there is clearly motivation other than the religious for even the Crusades, which were one of the closest things to a totally religious war like I said.

no you can only use the types of things that people are willing to kill and die over to justify a war
Yeah and religion is one of the many

yes it does
People are willing to die in wars for the cause of democracy so is democracy bad

[hethamulburton]

See, this attitude is the basis of the problem. While it's true that all kinds of violence has been justified by religion and even partially caused by it, it's important to remember that virtually never does a society decide to up and kill another society just because their religions are different. There is almost always something to be gained or a score to be settled, and the other factors (also natural parts of human life) that divide people are just as guilty as religion, so it makes no sense to single out religion as the one aspect of human culture that needs to go. And trying to convince yourself that getting rid of religion will stop war is the most retarded thing ever.

Did you read the second half to this? I said that regardless of whether we had religion we would still fight each other because we are materialistic and greedy by nature.

[Smokey D]

Well yeah, lots of wars are conceived as religious and not secular, partly because that makes them more glamorous and easier to sell.

Actually, that's usually not the reason.

Why do people persist in the belief that there is a sinister ruling cabal at the highest levels of government that don't share the beliefs of the masses. Both peasants and knights in the Crusades thought of themselves as milites christi.

However, there is clearly motivation other than the religious for even the Crusades, which were one of the closest things to a totally religious war like I said.

And it's also clear that in many cases they were functions of religion. As I said, Jerusalem was important because it was a relic, not a source of revenue (although relics were themselves important because of their revenue generating abilities).

[Lupus]

I can use anything to justify a war but that doesn't make the thing bad.The Crusades are a good one so let me point out
The Crusades were a series of military campaigns—usually sanctioned by the Papacy—that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. Originally, the goal was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land
Note that the goal is to capture a chunk of land. This is what basically all wars come down to. Sometimes the land has religious significance but in my eyes it's no different from fighting over land for any other reason. The Crusades were a pretty bad one though; one of the closest things to a purely religious war.
Of course there's a difference to fighting over land for any other reason, we're talking about if religion is a reason people wage war, you mongoloid.
And so if we got rid of religion, those things would stop happening?
No but obviously, having removed one of the causes, we would experience less of them.
No. Most cases, religion is just another factor that divides people, whether it's race, culture, language, location, class, whatever.Yes it is true there's more than one cause of war.In most conflicts where religion plays into it, it's just one of many reasons why people are feuding (well, the real reason is that people are ****ing douchebags, but these are surface causes). And how does this prove religion doesn't cause war?Saying that religion causes these things and so should be gotten rid of or is bad, is like saying that everyone should be made to speak the same language, genetically engineered to look the same, have their cultures and traditions erased and all act the same and think the same, in order to stop conflict from happening.

I'm assuming you don't hold that view.
I haven't said religion should be gotten rid of because it causes war. I said that if there's no god then religion is a negative and I disagreed with your belief that religion doesn't cause war.

You seem to take this to mean, "Religion causes war, therefore it is bad", when in fact there's a whole plethora of other reasons why it's bad.

1. What have countries done that's so greatEnabled effective government.
2. I love that you're still insisting religion has never done anybody any good
No it has, such as charity and so on. But in the long term it is detrimental
So do some cultural values so culture must be a bad thing that must be eradicated!
This is just getting ridiculous now. Again, I never said that religion should be eradicated I was just making my case for why it causes war.

True although that had as much to do with folk superstition as with what we'd call "religion" now
Same thing.

Well yeah, lots of wars are conceived as religious and not secular, partly because that makes them more glamorous and easier to sell. However, there is clearly motivation other than the religious for even the Crusades, which were one of the closest things to a totally religious war like I said.Even if it weren't blatantly obvious that you're talking out your ***, what you're saying is still irrelevant.

By the way, I feel compelled to show you this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

[Reaganista]

Yeah and religion is one of the many
that's irrelevant
People are willing to die in wars for the cause of democracy so is democracy bad
yes

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

you mongoloid.

Even if it weren't blatantly obvious that you're talking out your ***, what you're saying is still irrelevant.

By the way, I feel compelled to show you this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

I feel strangely compelled to show you this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

No but obviously, having removed one of the causes, we would experience less of them.

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. I would say that there will in the case of (almost) every religious conflict there are other factors without which the conflict would not occur. Religious conflict flares up where there are other difference between people such as culture. I would say that religious belief is no different from non-religious beliefs in that they both can involve fundamental differences of opinion regarding what should or should not be; the differences are ethical, and removing religion would not, I feel, be likely to remove these ethical differences and so reduce conflict. This is just one example; another could be that of persecution. When a group feels that their survival, identity, etc, is under threat (rightly or wrongly), they often tend to self-identify a group of values which are set in opposition to those of the oppressors; this can take a religious form if the people are religious, and non-religious form if the people are non-religious (or, more accurately, do not identify religion as either a factor unifying them or separating them from others), for example the Baask separatist movement in northern Spain. In either case, I cannot see that simply removing religion, which I see as the superstructure to deeper underlying values (even if these are conditioned by religion), would reduce conflict.

Yes it is true there's more than one cause of war. And how does this prove religion doesn't cause war?

Like I have said above, it is more a superficial cause in my opinion.


I said that if there's no god then religion is a negative and I disagreed with your belief that religion doesn't cause war.

If there is no god then religion is merely people's beliefs (in practical terms - excluding the metaphysical - it has the same effect anyway if a god or gods do exist) then removing religion would not reduce conflict. The only example where it could do would be where it was reinforcing the same old dogma, but in reality the beliefs of both organisations (e.g. the Church) and individual followers largely change with time anyway in the majority of cases. Even if/when it does, this is a problem of dogmatic belief, which is by no means limited to religion.

You seem to take this to mean, "Religion causes war, therefore it is bad", when in fact there's a whole plethora of other reasons why it's bad.

THe guy you are quoting has, in that case, got some fallacious logic going on. It should be something like:

"Religion causes war" + "War is bad" proves nothing except that war is bad; it does not mean that religion is bad. An analogy to show this could be:
"Mark likes coffee" + "coffee is unhealthy" = Mark is unhealthy - clearly this is not the case at all, and the two premises cannot be used to reach a logical conclusion. To reach the conclusion of "religion is bad", it would need to be set up something like this:
"Religion causes war" + "That which causes war is bad" = "Religion is bad".

What is this plethora of other reasons why religion is bad? What do you mean by "bad" anyway - unconditionally bad or has some bad aspects to it along with some good ones. Are you saying that it is bad because it has negative effects or because you 'disapprove', for want of a better word, of it's nature? Is it religion that is bad, or followers of religion, or the organisations of religion, or some of them, or any combination of the above. ??

But in the long term it is detrimental

Again, how so? How long term are we talking here anyway?

[Jude]

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. I would say that there will in the case of (almost) every religious conflict there are other factors without which the conflict would not occur.

To this I would add that if you took away the religion from it, the conflict would almost always still occur.


Like I have said above, it is more a superficial cause in my opinion.
This is my basic point



Even if/when it does, this is a problem of dogmatic belief, which is by no means limited to religion.


Again this is part of my point...

[Smokey D]

Religion is not usually a superficial motive for war. However, it is often one of many deeply held motivations.

[Lupus]

I feel strangely compelled to show you this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
I addressed his points.



I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. I would say that in the case of (almost) every religious conflict there are other factors without which the conflict would not occur. Well it's a good thing that what you would say doesn't mean **** here. Religious conflict flares up where there are other difference between people such as culture.Obviously two groups with the same culture aren't going to have a religious war, they'd have the same religion. I would say that religious belief is no different from non-religious beliefs in that they both can involve fundamental differences of opinion regarding what should or should not be; the differences are ethical, and removing religion would not, I feel, be likely to remove these ethical differences and so reduce conflict.I don't ****ing care what you feel, because it is obvious that it would. Religious ethics are different from atheist ethics because atheist ethics actually involve some thought from the person while religious ethics are just doing what your religion says. Also the belief that you are divinely justified in your ethics and that people who are opposed to them are anti-god.This is just one example; another could be that of persecution. When a group feels that their survival, identity, etc, is under threat (rightly or wrongly), they often tend to self-identify a group of values which are set in opposition to those of the oppressors; this can take a religious form if the people are religious, and non-religious form if the people are non-religious (or, more accurately, do not identify religion as either a factor unifying them or separating them from others), for example the Baask separatist movement in northern Spain. In either case, I cannot see that simply removing religion, which I see as the superstructure to deeper underlying values (even if these are conditioned by religion), would reduce conflict.
I don't care how you see religion, I don't care how you see anything for ****'s sake. Use logic you ****ing retard, religion is organised belief in the supernatural and it tells people to do things that make sense if that religion is correct, but don't if it isn't.


And I don't care if you can think of a few situations in which conflict seems religious but isn't. That doesn't prove anything.




Like I have said above, it is more a superficial cause in my opinion.
Don't care.



If there is no god then religion is merely people's beliefs (in practical terms - excluding the metaphysical - it has the same effect anyway if a god or gods do exist) then removing religion would not reduce conflict. Religious belief is fundamentally different because it doesn't rely on logic but what you are told God has said. The only example where it could do would be where it was reinforcing the same old dogma, but in reality the beliefs of both organisations (e.g. the Church) and individual followers largely change with time anyway in the majority of cases. Even if/when it does, this is a problem of dogmatic belief, which is by no means limited to religion.

Religion is 100% dogma

What is this plethora of other reasons why religion is bad?I originally said that if atheists are right then religion is a negative. If a religion is wrong, then following it is just a waste of time, and depending on the religion can be detrimental to a person's quality of life as it provides limits that are useless if that religion is untrue (These limits are mostly what I meant when I referred to the plethora of reasons). Obviously if a religion is right it makes sense to follow it, though that religion might still provide limits that are detrimental to a person's enjoyment of their mortal life. But even if one religion is true, the overall effect of all religions upon this world is a negative.What do you mean by "bad" anyway - unconditionally bad or has some bad aspects to it along with some good ones. Are you saying that it is bad because it has negative effects or because you 'disapprove', for want of a better word, of it's nature? Is it religion that is bad, or followers of religion, or the organisations of religion, or some of them, or any combination of the above. ??
Religion is bad because despite the fact that it has done some good things, its negative effects outweigh them heavily.



Again, how so? How long term are we talking here anyway?Because religion encourages ignorance, has oppressed people in various ways for millennia, caused individual conflict as well as all out war, all because people can't see what's in front of their faces.

To this I would add that if you took away the religion from it, the conflict would almost always still occur.

This is my basic point

Again this is part of my point..Except that point has been torn to shreds already, dumbass.