Realism, Skepticism, Perception, Metaphysics, Etc.

[Brewing Up With]

I've been fairly interested lately in the beliefs about Realism, perception, Skepticism, Metaphysics, etc.. I just want to let anyone who is strongly interested and knowledgeable in Philosophy that I am fairly new to these ideas, the terms and overall meaning of these points of view. I'm learning. Just like all of us.

I just wanted to know how you guys feel about Realism and Skepticism. For example (in very simple terms): Direct Realists believe that everything we see is an external world, not a mental image that we perceive something to be.

Skeptics would question if what we see is reality at all. We may be existing in a dream, or see a distorted view of this world. This existence that we believe to be true may not even be a true existence.

I know these explanations of two very complex and deep philosophies are short and may be lacking. But I'm asking everyone here right now: What is your point of view on this? Explain. Constructively argue. Tell me what you think! I'm curious about what other people believe about existence.

[telemore]

Over the past month or so, I've been delving into other modes of thought I hadn't explored before. Namely I've been interested in Buddhism and then out of that somehow came, as you call it, Skepticism. I had no name until now, so this is nice.

I see all of this (the internet, the room i'm in, the bed i'm on) as a projection of what i would like to see. it reflects the decisions i've made in the past, but also vaguely anticipates what i will decide to do in the future.


how's that?

[Futue te Ipsum]

It looks like you're trying to sound deep, tbh.

[telemore]

who, me or ts?



in all honestly i typed what was going through my mind.

[Futue te Ipsum]

alcohol is going through mine

[Futue te Ipsum]

I've been fairly interested lately in the beliefs about Realism, perception, Skepticism, Metaphysics, etc.. I just want to let anyone who is strongly interested and knowledgeable in Philosophy that I am fairly new to these ideas, the terms and overall meaning of these points of view. I'm learning. Just like all of us.

I just wanted to know how you guys feel about Realism and Skepticism. For example (in very simple terms): Direct Realists believe that everything we see is an external world, not a mental image that we perceive something to be.

Skeptics would question if what we see is reality at all. We may be existing in a dream, or see a distorted view of this world. This existence that we believe to be true may not even be a true existence.

I know these explanations of two very complex and deep philosophies are short and may be lacking. But I'm asking everyone here right now: What is your point of view on this? Explain. Constructively argue. Tell me what you think! I'm curious about what other people believe about existence.man, philosophers really need girlfriends.

[telemore]

:upset:

lol

[griftadan]

i don't have much reason not to trust my eyes.

[irishslappop]

man, philosophers really need girlfriends.

nietzsche was a virgin :cool:

[Ando!]

this would probably do better in pnwi

I'm a realistic skeptic

wait this is pnwi

[Dave de Sylvia]

I studied philosophy for a year then discovered that I was just mildly curious and didn't really care about anything that I studied.

[Bukowski]

I just started studying it at college, along with some other things. I'm mildly interested and the oh-so-heated debates are fun, but I don't really care about it either.

[telemore]

it's something i'm looking forward to when i start going back to school.

[Sexypastries]

you're using really vague and ill defined terms so i'm at a loss as to how to respond to your post tbh

[pedro durruti]

We live in a material world that is reality but our subjectivities blur it. While a discovery that the world we live in is false is a product of that reality through and through. If we are an idea, an idea conceived by what? And how does being an idea discount its existence or its reality? But that's metaphysical nonsense.
I see all of this (the internet, the room i'm in, the bed i'm on) as a projection of what i would like to see. it reflects the decisions i've made in the past, but also vaguely anticipates what i will decide to do in the future.
So you think you have no free will?

[Sexypastries]

Berkeley says we exist because god perceives us.

woopie

[Superfly]

Threadstarter, please choose your realism from the list below;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism

Thanks.

Regards.

[telemore]

We live in a material world that is reality but our subjectivities blur it. While a discovery that the world we live in is false is a product of that reality through and through. If we are an idea, an idea conceived by what? And how does being an idea discount its existence or its reality? But that's metaphysical nonsense.

So you think you have no free will?

no, i think i have free will.

[Brewing Up With]

Threadstarter, please choose your realism from the list below;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism

Thanks.

Regards.

Dear Superfly,

I'm not sure if that was just a sarcastic remark to using the broad term of "Realism" in my beginning post, or an honest question which has a fairly obvious answer: Realism in philosophical terms which has to do with existence and perception.

Thanks.

Regards.

[Independent_CA]

nietzsche was a virgin :cool:

Really?

[italic zero]

no man he got syphilis

[iliketoplaydrums10111]

i don't have much reason not to trust my eyes.

A teacher told me this:

Billions of particles of information pass us every second, yet our eyes only pick up a couple million.

Interpret that as you wish.

[italic zero]

I interpret it as irrelevant

[lfantwister]

i'm skeptical of skepticism.

am i a realist?

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I've been fairly interested lately in the beliefs about Realism, perception, Skepticism, Metaphysics, etc.. I just want to let anyone who is strongly interested and knowledgeable in Philosophy that I am fairly new to these ideas, the terms and overall meaning of these points of view. I'm learning. Just like all of us.

I just wanted to know how you guys feel about Realism and Skepticism. For example (in very simple terms): Direct Realists believe that everything we see is an external world, not a mental image that we perceive something to be.

Skeptics would question if what we see is reality at all. We may be existing in a dream, or see a distorted view of this world. This existence that we believe to be true may not even be a true existence.

I know these explanations of two very complex and deep philosophies are short and may be lacking. But I'm asking everyone here right now: What is your point of view on this? Explain. Constructively argue. Tell me what you think! I'm curious about what other people believe about existence.

Would that be the AS Philosophy course? They are interesting, and ultimately unanswerable. I have found that, in my opinion, there is no way we can prove or disprove anything about the nature of existence, so scepticism is totally spot on. Some people misunderstand it; I still go about my daily life as I would anyway, but it is just that knowing that nothing is 100% certain helps you not take things (ideas, beliefs, etc.) for granted and to be open to other points of view and ideas more than before.

nietzsche was a virgin :cool:

I doubt it, he had cyphillis (sp?).

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

i'm skeptical of skepticism.

am i a realist?

You're still a sceptic then. Scepticism is largely taken as meaning that you cannot be sure that anything, e.g. the "world", exists, but this is not the same as actively thinking it does not exist; it is the possibility of it being either way that is scepticism. So a sceptic would not say he knows that the world exists for certain, but also not know that it doesn't exist for certain; regardless of this, he will usually believe it to be one way or the other, but be open to the possibility of it being the other way around.

[peeted]

nietzsche was a virgin :cool:
he got syphilis lol.

Im epistemologicaly agnostic, i think that its impossible to make any meaningful statements or derive anything from scepticism but ultimatley there is no way to be sure about our perceptions.

[italic zero]

anyone who's still a skeptic after age 15 is an idiot

[Meatplow]

I've been fairly interested lately in the beliefs about Realism, perception, Skepticism, Metaphysics, etc.. I just want to let anyone who is strongly interested and knowledgeable in Philosophy that I am fairly new to these ideas, the terms and overall meaning of these points of view. I'm learning. Just like all of us.

I've also just started to delve into this kind of study, i find it interesting like you though i don't feel I could carry a good argument just yet until i'm a bit more read in the subjects. Then again the experience of discussing it could be just as valuable.

For example (in very simple terms): Direct Realists believe that everything we see is an external world, not a mental image that we perceive something to be.

I feel strongly of this line of thinking, mainly on the fact that each of us share common experiences with reality and can describe to them to each other.

What i find most interesting is when there are cases that someone (Let's say Person A) describes an experience of their reality to someone else which could be something along the lines that leprechauns are stalking them. Now it seems completely irrational, sharing none of the logic that supports Person B's reality. Person B will think A is crazy (or under the influence of something) because they are describing an existence that does not run with his own perceptions and knowledge (we all know leprechauns are extinct ;)). Along with this Person B has reinforced ideas about reality they have gained from other people who describe things in common which can be related to and be understood as objective reasoning.

Now correct me if i am wrong, but because there are common experiences described between people which can break down subjective walls and make us reason an objective truth i feel this does something to credit realism.

My inspiration for this was this thread i made a long while back which ended up with me being heavily criticized, but it did raise some good points for me - :) - http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527373

Skeptics would question if what we see is reality at all. We may be existing in a dream, or see a distorted view of this world. This existence that we believe to be true may not even be a true existence.

Isn't that more leaning towards solipsism? I don't know it the concept of skepticism extends to disbelieving anything outside of the mind as a whole.

[fifi trixibell]

anyone who's still a skeptic after age 15 is an idiot

So your absolutely certain that everything that you perceive exists exactly as you perceive it to, without any distortion or omission?

[lfantwister]

Now correct me if i am wrong, but because there are common experiences described between people which can break down subjective walls and make us reason an objective truth i feel this does something to credit realism.

how do you know there are common experiences? language certianly cant describe sensations well enough to ensure that people are feeling the exact same things. And maybe they don't experience the same things as you, even. There is absolutely no way of knowing

[Meatplow]

I'm talking similar experiences, not carbon copies. There is much reasoning and compromise to one's own opinion (and indeed their perception) once a pool of knowledge between people arises.

[italic zero]

So your absolutely certain that everything that you perceive exists exactly as you perceive it to, without any distortion or omission?
no of course not that's why people should be skeptics when they're like twelve

[RockAndRoll]

Would that be the AS Philosophy course? They are interesting, and ultimately unanswerable. I have found that, in my opinion, there is no way we can prove or disprove anything about the nature of existence, so scepticism is totally spot on. Some people misunderstand it; I still go about my daily life as I would anyway, but it is just that knowing that nothing is 100% certain helps you not take things (ideas, beliefs, etc.) for granted and to be open to other points of view and ideas more than before.


A certain degree of skepticism is useful. Complete skepticism is ridiculous.

[peeted]

Everyone should read language truth and logic...

[PerpetualBurn]

how do you know there are common experiences? language certianly cant describe sensations well enough to ensure that people are feeling the exact same things. And maybe they don't experience the same things as you, even. There is absolutely no way of knowing

If there weren't common experiences then we couldn't have language at all.

[Shadius]

There are shared experiences. Saying that these don't exist goes into the realms of socially jilted kids who stumble upon philosophy as an excuse for why they can't make friends or connect with other people.

I know that everything we experience isn't how reality objectively is. There are particles, light rays and vibrations, and we interpret these things with our sense organs to varying degrees, resolutions and at different spectrums when compared to other living creatures, for example.

There is no green apple, it's an apple that reflects light rays into our eyes that are interpreted as green by human beings, or other animals which interpret light in the way that we do. Unless of course you're colour blind, and can't experience green, and can't separate it from brown.

The fact is though, you can't go around life being like "Yeah, so see so-and-so's new car that I perceive as being red because of the way pigments work on my eyes as a result of the cone cells that detect the spectrum of light that reflected off the paintwork?" You're just like, yeah, see the red car? because we do share experiences.

[pooble]

nietzche got around man, he slept with hookers and whatnot.

[lfantwister]

If there weren't common experiences then we couldn't have language at all.
I dont follow. cant we agree that something is a tree while individually interpreting it differently?

[PerpetualBurn]

That sentence depends on us having a common understanding of language at the very least.

[stupid dream]

Imo this thread lacks Hume . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume

[Futue te Ipsum]

a few questions usually enter my mind when I hear philosophers talk.

these are:
so ****ing what?
why care?
What ****in difference would it make if this is right or wrong?

[PerpetualBurn]

Because it's there.

[RockAndRoll]

a few questions usually enter my mind when I hear philosophers talk.

these are:
so ****ing what?
why care?
What ****in difference would it make if this is right or wrong?

You should try listening every once in a while then.

[lfantwister]

That sentence depends on us having a common understanding of language at the very least.
I don't understand what you mean :smoke:

[PerpetualBurn]

I mean that in order for us to have a conversation we both have to have an understanding of language. And that understanding of language has to have a certain number of similarities or we wouldn't understand each other.

[lfantwister]

similarities yes but not shared experiences necessarily

[PerpetualBurn]

We must have shared experiences of the language or we wouldn't be able to have a common understanding of the words.

[peeted]

Once you start to doubt similarities in sense data all statements you make become meaningless.

[pooble]

a few questions usually enter my mind when I hear philosophers talk.

these are:
so ****ing what?
why care?
What ****in difference would it make if this is right or wrong?

hey man, for us who suck at math and the sciences, philosophy is a life saver. my favorite class right now.

[PerpetualBurn]

I suck at neither maths nor science. I study philosophy.

[Reaganista]

lol science

[VomitStainedCretin]

nietzsche was a virgin :cool:Apparently not if the theory that he contracted syphilis from a Berlin prostitute is true. Though he wasn't very successful with relationships, which he blamed on his moustache scaring women away.

[AlmightyHustle]

Descartes was in a bar and he just finished his drink. The bartender looked at him and asked, "Do you want another beer?"

Descartes looked at him and said," I think not..." Then he dissapeared.

[peeted]

That joke gives a bad name to philosophy students...i dont know why i still tell it to people.