Should Australia and New-Zealand Merge?

[Aaron]

First up a disclaimer: I have not studied economics or similar. I am just an Australian who has been thinking.

Australia and New Zealand are best mates. That's obvious. Aside from differences on nuclear-technology, I cannot think of an economic or social issue where we drastically differ. We have very similar collective values and like rugby union. The amount of trade [both commercial and interelectual] between the two nations is pretty huge.

So why do we have to be separate nations?

[Dinosawesome]

New Zealand was going to be an Australian state up until the last few months/weeks of federation.

[Smokey D]

New Zeland and Australia are different countries with different economies and cultures. I dont think a union is either necessary or particularly helpful. We're over 3000 km apart, and it's unlikely the parliament in Camberra could accurately respond to the problems of New Zealand.

[Dinosawesome]

*Canberra

[lunchforthesky]

I don't see how this is neccesarry. As Smokey said different people different cultures and a lack of real proximity.

Plus this would only futher marginalise the indigenous peoples of both nations.

[Aaron]

Surely it'd be helpful though if visas weren't needed to work in both countries? There's a fair few transnationals that have offices in both...

[StreetlightRock]

New Zeland and Australia are different countries with different economies and cultures. I dont think a union is either necessary or particularly helpful. We're over 3000 km apart, and it's unlikely the parliament in Camberra could accurately respond to the problems of New Zealand.

This.

But yea, it might be probably be useful to have some sort of EU-like open-border thing going. Unless there is already...?

[Smokey D]

Also, I should point out NZ was founded on the principle of formal equality between two sovereign peoples, Maori and British. Australia was founded on the concept of terra nullius, explicitly excluding native populations from recognition by the state. This view has coloured all of Australia's subsequent indigenous relations and at least partially explains why it has such a bad record even compared to New Zealand.

There is the Closer Economic Relations free-trade deal between NZ and Australia, which as far as I'm aware abolished any restrictive trade policies between the two countries.

[philly96]

No, no they shouldnt.

[Strum]

no thanks

there's enough taragos on the road as it is

[Smokey D]

What the hell's a tarago?

[philly96]

Australia and New Zealand are best mates.

I just wanted to alert you to this fact. I don't like them at all. They like sheep a bit too much. You also said in the first bit about rugby union bringing both of our countries together. Its only due to us being HUGE rivals in the aforementioned sport.

[Strum]

What the hell's a tarago?

http://www.pickpayngo.com.au/images/usedCars/20feb07/05b.jpg

mauri families love 'em

[StreetlightRock]

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/08/24/25bargainM_m.jpg

Tarago?

Edit: OIC.

[Strum]

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/08/24/25bargainM_m.jpg

Tarago?

not that new :lol:

I just wanted to alert you to this fact. I don't like them at all. They like sheep a bit too much. You also said in the first bit about rugby union bringing both of our countries together. Its only due to us being HUGE rivals in the aforementioned sport.

it doesnt help when the all blacks aren't all black

[Oriah]

New Zeland and Australia are different countries with different economies and cultures. I dont think a union is either necessary or particularly helpful. We're over 3000 km apart, and it's unlikely the parliament in Camberra could accurately respond to the problems of New Zealand.

Agreed, having been to both nations, this thread is bollix. :smash:

[Reaganista]

i was under the impression that australia treats it's natives horribly compared to new zealand

[Smokey D]

That's the consensus, but Maori in NZ are still overrepresented in every bad indicator you can think of.

[big80smullet]

Surely it'd be helpful though if visas weren't needed to work in both countries? There's a fair few transnationals that have offices in both...

You already don't need one. If your an aussie or an NZ citizen you don't need a visa or permit to work in the other country. Its been that way for decades. Thats why theres so many maoris in the NRL.

[Smokey D]

They changed the rules a bit recently, but that's still pretty much the case.

On a related note, imagine how formidable a rugby team a combined Australia and New Zealand could field.

[big80smullet]

They changed the rules a bit recently, but that's still pretty much the case.

On a related note, imagine how formidable a rugby team a combined Australia and New Zealand could field.

Really when did they change and what did they change?

An ANZAC rugby team would be pretty dominant.

If we did integrate what would the joined country be called?

[Smokey D]

Australasia, probably.

[/quote]Really when did they change and what did they change?[/quote]

In 2001 legislation was enacted in Australia, which divided New Zealanders living in Australia into two categories: those who were resident in Australia before 2001 (permanent resident), and those who arrived in Australia after 2001 (Special Category Visa).

Those who were resident before 2001 may claim unemployment benefits after two years' residence, as is the norm for permanent residents of other nationalities. New Zealanders who arrive in Australia after 2001 are not entitled to any unemployment benefits at all, as is the norm for people living in Australia only on work permit.

While this still allowed the freedom to live and work in Australia it restricted access to certain privileges of Australian Permanent Residence, such as tertiary education subsidies through HELP.

The changes don't appear that significant, I suppose.

[big80smullet]

Oh well thats not bad cause im an aussie. I lived in palmy for 7 years though and my family didn't need any visas. We came back in 03. I think i'd like to work in queenstown for the winter. That would be pretty good.


For the name of the new country i submit boganville. Because it will in fact contain all the worlds bogans

[italic zero]

Physically? Yes.

[Smokey D]

What?

[big80smullet]

lol i suppose integrating the flags wouldn't be a huge problem. My only rule would be no ugly, angry lesbians as prime minister.

[dei]

Merge Australia with Flanders and New Zealand with Wallonia.

[big80smullet]

flanstralia and new wallonialand?

[Violent_Bill]

As a New Zealander I firmly say no. Our countries are very different, with different national policies, and I don't want our views to be engulfed by Australia's.

[Alf™]

No.

[badtaste]

lol i suppose integrating the flags wouldn't be a huge problem. My only rule would be no ugly, angry lesbians as prime minister.

Isn't the NZ PM married? To a man?

As for thread, I think we're doing fine separately. But... we'd have an awesome rugby union team if there was a merge.

[big80smullet]

Yes she is married but its a loveless husk of a marriage. He is gay and she is a lesbian.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

I agree man, I fully support a merger if the new flag is that horrible bit'ches body gently turning in the breeze, hung from a flagpole.

Funnily enough, theres a little bit in the Australian constitution that allows for a merger if the Kiwis ever change their minds.

[Smokey D]

Helen Clark has probably been the best Prime Minister we've had in 20 years.

[big80smullet]

We can make her tombstone out of one of her comically oversized front teeth.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Helen Clark gives female PM's a bad name. Ghandi, Thatcher, Golda Meyer. All awesome. Then Helen Clark comes along, gets rid of your military and gives the country to Maoris.

[Smokey D]

Way to not understand NZ politics.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Meh, oversimplification for laughs and ease.

Mind you, being affiliated with you lot would have pros. Like having a lot more Maoris, those guys are awesome. Especially when you compare them to our natives.

[big80smullet]

My military? hell i aint a kiwi. i used to live there but i aint one

[Smokey D]

Meh, oversimplification for laughs and ease.

She gets a lot of **** for 'giving the country to the Maoris' as put it, but the Labour government actually did the complete opposite.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

No, no, no, I was addressing Smokey man, you're on the anti-Helen Clark frontline, your one of us.

[big80smullet]

Good as long as we're on the same page.

So... whos voting for Rudd in the election

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Not me.

I'm voting Howard until something better comes along. Rudd is a smarmy little twat and despite how wonderful he might be, everyone forgets that everyone behind him (starting with and especially Gillard) are either stupid, evil or both.

[big80smullet]

Ill vote for him cause he's gonna get rid of the workplace reforms. Plus i don't Like howard because of this buisness of not being able to remove his head from bushes arse!

Thats one thing helen clark does right. She won't go down on bush for a few trade dollars

[RIP Ian Curtis]

I like the workplace reforms because it suits my jobhopping style. And it means we won't get stuck in a socialist rut like France and Germany. As for the fellating America thing, I'm not really pleased with that myself, we need to hitch ourselves to China's rising star, and start severing ourselves from the dying empire, like with did with England before.

I'd vote for anyone who supported unrestricted uranium mining.

[Smokey D]

What exactly do you guys have against Auntie Helen?

[big80smullet]

Id support anyone who stopped the bush felating and gave jobs to the abos.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

What exactly do you guys have against Auntie Helen?

Mostly her semi-socialist lameness. She reminds me of Carmen Lawrence here in W.A.

[Smokey D]

Like what?

[Violent_Bill]

Helen Clark gives female PM's a bad name. Ghandi, Thatcher, Golda Meyer. All awesome. Then Helen Clark comes along, gets rid of your military and gives the country to Maoris.

Please expand on that. I'm not the biggest Clark fan but I still think you have no clue what you're talking about.

[badtaste]

Mind you, being affiliated with you lot would have pros. Like having a lot more Maoris, those guys are awesome. Especially when you compare them to our natives.

Hey, we would be able to do the haka! Awethome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83U_Vg1GRvA