Drugs

[Hababi]

Not the illicit kind, but rather prescription drugs. Are we becoming overmedicated? Do we rely too much on prescription medication?

I think in some cases we do, particularly in regards to supposed ADD kids. While there are kids who have legitimate ADHD, we've become far too anxious to drug kids who fidget or have different interests. Many brilliant people, including Albert Einstein, would've been drugged as children if the mindset and technology had been the same back then.

[Already_Taken]

Every child has ADD to some degree. It isn't life threatening, so I don't think it should be so easy to prescribe a drug a child so easily.

And sleeping medications. If you have trouble sleeping at night why don't you go run a mile. It takes 10 minutes at the most, and your body will be much more anxious to sleep. Some people are just so lazy they'd rather take a pill, which most certainly will cause a dependency.

[Kurrpt]

considering my position at this insurance company, I'd say people are over-medicated for sure.

Now, if the patient is terminal, so be it

[Already_Taken]

I have a question. If doctors prescribe more [expensive] medicine, do they get paid more? Like commission, kinda..?

[italic zero]

Every child has ADD to some degree. It isn't life threatening, so I don't think it should be so easy to prescribe a drug a child so easily.
this is the dumbest thing i've read in about a week

and that's saying a lot on here

[Kurrpt]

they might get kickbacks from the manufacturer, but usually not

[Kurrpt]

this is the dumbest thing i've read in about a week

and that's saying a lot on here

I'd definitely agree with his post, to a certain extent. It's because so many children our rasied as the television being their baby sitter

[italic zero]

yeah but would you agree with

everyone has ADD

if something isn't life threatening we shouldn't do anything about it

and the most obviously redundant statement

[Already_Taken]

To a degree, I believe all children do have ADD. It is basically having a short attention span. When you try to teach a child to read, they won't care. Some say it's because they have ADD, but I think it is because they are more interested in the fly flying around the room than a book with words.

It's called being a child.

you twist my words a lot too.

[Kurrpt]

i'm sure you could argue that everyone exhibits traits or symptoms of ADD. My main point is that the prescription should come from a psycologist, and not a fukking doctor

[Kurrpt]

To a degree, I believe all children do have ADD. It is basically having a short attention span. When you try to teach a child to read, they won't care. Some say it's because they have ADD, but I think it is because they are more interested in the fly flying around the room than a book with words.

It's called being a child.

I'll stick with my explanation, but yea, who wouldn't

[PerpetualBurn]

Many brilliant people, including Albert Einstein, would've been drugged as children if the mindset and technology had been the same back then.

So?

[Hababi]

So?

So we're suppressing gifted minds because they're different.

[WhoDidTheElf]

On a whole it's hard to say, but for somethings it's obvious, like ADD.

[Already_Taken]

So we're suppressing gifted minds because they're different.

By giving them watered-down Methamphetamines.

[Iscaryot]

definitely overmedicated

we have a pill for everything

[WhoDidTheElf]

We have pills to fix side affects of other pills

[Already_Taken]

E.D.? More like "You are now too old to have children, shoulda got laid more when you had the chance!!!"

[Kurrpt]

with most pills, they set out to accomplish a goal, fail, then wind up using that drug for a completely different reason than it was intended.

[Already_Taken]

Case in point : Xanax!

[Yield]

I disagree that if an illness isn't directly life threatening then it shouldn't be treated.

Clinical Depression
Schizophrenia
Bi-polar Disorder
Obsessive-compulsive Disorder

Several examples of disorders that in severe cases, need treatment just to make it through the day.

[Already_Taken]

I was referring more so to ADD when I said that. I just meant that it shouldn't be so easy to prescribe Ritalin or Adderall for a disorder that is hardly life threatening.

[WhoDidTheElf]

with most pills, they set out to accomplish a goal, fail, then wind up using that drug for a completely different reason than it was intended.

That's not quite true. The FDA has really tight regulations on drugs. They make sure you have a ton of proof your drug does what you say it does. Now what usually ends up happening is a company formualtes a drug, gets it approved, sells it, and then their patent runs out. Once that happens every one takes the drug mods it changes it and boom, you have 20 different versions of the drug that will **** you up in 1000 different ways. The drug gets a bad name, and poof all of it's gone.

[Kurrpt]

That's not quite true. The FDA has really tight regulations on drugs. They make sure you have a ton of proof your drug does what you say it does. Now what usually ends up happening is a company formualtes a drug, gets it approved, sells it, and then their patent runs out. Once that happens every one takes the drug mods it changes it and boom, you have 20 different versions of the drug that will **** you up in 1000 different ways. The drug gets a bad name, and poof all of it's gone.

it still has to go through clinical trials. doesn't make my previous statement any less valid

[WhoDidTheElf]

I disagree that if an illness isn't directly life threatening then it shouldn't be treated.

Clinical Depression
Schizophrenia
Bi-polar Disorder
Obsessive-compulsive Disorder

Several examples of disorders that in severe cases, need treatment just to make it through the day.

Generally that makes it "/life/ threatening" if you can't go about your normal life with out help.

[Yield]

I was referring more so to ADD when I said that. I just meant that it shouldn't be so easy to prescribe Ritalin or Adderall for a disorder that is hardly life threatening.

Well yeah, I agree with that. I'm sure there are tons of kids that don't really need the drugs. But there are also kids that definitely do need them.

[Already_Taken]

True, it's hard to make it to the grocery store without getting arrested for severe schizophrenics.

[Aklerc]

The only real problem I see is where to draw the line.


Which, is of course, very hard.

We could argue forever about what drugs are for what and whether they should be there. But in the end there will definitely be people who benefit from it and definitely some that don't.

How do you draw the line?

[WhoDidTheElf]

it still has to go through clinical trials. doesn't make my previous statement any less valid

Yes that's what I was saying. They don't really fail at the goal, it's that it usually changes, or the market for it is to small, and the side affects are to problematic.

[Yield]

Generally that makes it "/life/ threatening" if you can't go about your normal life with out help.

I meant life threatening as in "This problem in your heart is going to kill you in several days."

With those disorders, you'll live, you'll just need someones help if you don't take the meds.

[Kurrpt]

Yes that's what I was saying. They don't really fail at the goal, it's that it usually changes, or the market for it is to small, and the side affects are to problematic.

well, if you goal is to make a medication that treats symptom A, and it actually works for symptom x, I'd say it failed to meet it's goal. Sure, you could say its successful for treating symptom x, but if that wasn't your predisposed goal, then that would be a failure. Depends how you approach the situation

[WhoDidTheElf]

well, if you goal is to make a medication that treats symptom A, and it actually works for symptom x, I'd say it failed to meet it's goal. Sure, you could say its successful for treating symptom x, but if that wasn't your predisposed goal, then that would be a failure. Depends how you approach the situation

Yeah and what I'm trying to say is, the FDA won't let you do that. If you say it treats symptom A and it actually treats symptom X you either have to switch all your R&D to symptom X or drop the whole drug because the FDA won't approve you.

[WhoDidTheElf]

I meant life threatening as in "This problem in your heart is going to kill you in several days."

With those disorders, you'll live, you'll just need someones help if you don't take the meds.

Err...most of those with out meds can, and in a lot of cases, will cut your life short.

[Kurrpt]

Yeah and what I'm trying to say is, the FDA won't let you do that. If you say it treats symptom A and it actually treats symptom X you either have to switch all your R&D to symptom X or drop the whole drug because the FDA won't approve you.

no, you just have to perform clinical trials saying the drug treats symptom x

[Yield]

Err...most of those with out meds can, and in a lot of cases, will cut your life short.

Alright, explain further.

[WhoDidTheElf]

no, you just have to perform clinical trials saying the drug treats symptom x

Yeah and that's moving all your R&D. But a drug can't be realised to the public untill all clinical trials are done along with some other hoops you have to jump through.. Also switching bases like that is extremely expensive and extremely time consuming.

[WhoDidTheElf]

Alright, explain further.

If you have any of those illnesses, and have a need for medication it's prolly to help you get through life. Manic depressent with out medication is a suicide story waiting to happen.

[Jude]

So if any kid has a disorder that's treatable with medication, we should not give them relief from their immense suffering and the problems it causes in their behavior, because they might turn out to be another Albert Einstein? (to TS)

[Kurrpt]

clinical trials are expensive, hence the reason manufacturers have the patent for so long until a generic can even be made. regardless, its in their best interest to do so, so I wouldn't say it's "extremely expensive and time consuming" considering thats what the FDA requires

[PerpetualBurn]

So we're suppressing gifted minds because they're different.

No they'd still be gifted on ritalin.

[Yield]

If you have any of those illnesses, and have a need for medication it's prolly to help you get through life. Manic depressent with out medication is a suicide story waiting to happen.

That's what I thought. And I agree with you. But as I said before, I was talking about disorders that aren't directly fatal. And as tragic as suicide is, it isn't the disease itself.

[Already_Taken]

None of the diseases you listed are directly fatal, but all of them could be indirectly fatal, thus making them life-threatening.

[Yield]

None of the diseases you listed are directly fatal, but all of them could be indirectly fatal, thus making them life-threatening.

And that's why medication should be taken for them.

[WhoDidTheElf]

clinical trials are expensive, hence the reason manufacturers have the patent for so long until a generic can even be made. regardless, its in their best interest to do so, so I wouldn't say it's "extremely expensive and time consuming" considering thats what the FDA requires

Oh it is extremely expensive and time consuming. If all goes well, just to get through the clinical trials takes 5 years. The cost to do them too is huge. You must provide all the medication and free of charge, + all the R&D (all has to be documented), manufacturing proofs, cGMP standards...the list goes on but I think you get the point.

[Kurrpt]

i was saying it happens more than you think, and it's in their best interest to do so.

not sure what you were really on about

[WhoDidTheElf]

And that's why medication should be taken for them.

And that was his point. If it's life threatening then they give meds, if it's not then they just go on.

[WhoDidTheElf]

i was saying it happens more than you think, and it's in their best interest to do so.

not sure what you were really on about

Like what I'm trying to say is. A company won't start phase 3 of the clinical trials, or even phase 2 tbh, unless it does treat symptom A like they said it would. So the goals never really failed. And if it doesn't treat A, then 9 times out of 10 they'll drop it and move on to another drug.

I mean you're not completely wrong, just trying to clarify that's all.

[lunchforthesky]

I'm really taken aback when I visit America by how many drugs American's take.

[Knifeboy]

I just want to point out, that unlike what Serenity seem to think, true ADHD is a sign of an underactive brain, and not a hyperactive brain.
It's generally a sign of mild "unintelligence"

[Cain]

Kids are way way over-medicated, and not just for things like ADD or ADHD but also for minor physical problems. I am a firm believer in the concept that because drugs create resistance to their effects just through the very fact of regular use, and because their constant use at a young age for things like distractability and even things like colds and especially depression, serves only to inhibit the clarity of one's mind, not to mention the degree to which it allows it to reach a full state of functional maturity.

I personally like to let my immune system work a little whenever I feel like crap: even aspirin is rarely the first thing on my mind once a headache sets in. I prefer to lie down or eat something.

But I'm seeing a huge backlash against the medicated generation from my late-Eighties-born generation, who have been, in general, growing up without this overreliance on prescription meds for minor things. I believe that when most of us have kids, discipline on the corporal punishment level and an emphasis on attentive, strict, and consistent parenting will see a resurgance while material indulgence and overmedication will see a drop. At least, that's how it'll be in my family.

[DiesIrae]

Not the illicit kind, but rather prescription drugs. Are we becoming overmedicated? Do we rely too much on prescription medication?

I think in some cases we do, particularly in regards to supposed ADD kids. While there are kids who have legitimate ADHD, we've become far too anxious to drug kids who fidget or have different interests. Many brilliant people, including Albert Einstein, would've been drugged as children if the mindset and technology had been the same back then.

ADD/ADHD meds shouldn't be the worry, antibiotics should be the concern.

[italic zero]

true

[PerpetualBurn]

ADD/ADHD meds shouldn't be the worry, antibiotics should be the concern.

It wouldn't be a concern if people would just take the antibiotics like they were told.

[GreyHam]

its a tricky one to pin down really, wether people need to be medicated because they suffer from an illness that can do them physical harm or one that decreases their quality of life

i nearly failed last year of uni after developing a sensual bit of depression (probably one of the most irritating illnesses to pin down given that it affects most people very differently), and after starting on SSRI's the change has been incredible. The sad thing was because it was such a gradual process id pretty much forgotten what 'normal' felt like, after getting used to feeling shitty all the time.

obviously these kinds of drugs wernt available at some point and we assume (or maybe it was just the case) that people managed just fine once upon a christmas. but if treatment is available to help people get through things then i cant see any reason why it shouldnt be taken up

i can only really speak for examples like mine and ones similar - my housemates a trainee social worker who has had to work with kids on ritalin, and said that most of them would probably be better with therapy and no medication, given that its fairly difficult to educate kids who act like zombies (his words, not mine)

[Hababi]

I just want to point out, that unlike what Serenity seem to think, true ADHD is a sign of an underactive brain, and not a hyperactive brain.
It's generally a sign of mild "unintelligence"

:confused: I wasn't talking about true ADHD, and if you would've read my post more thoroughly, that probably would've been clear:smash:

[Already_Taken]

It wouldn't be a concern if people would just take the antibiotics like they were told.

It is a concern because the Antibiotics create the antibodies that your body should create for you. If your body never has to make antibodies, then in the future when you contract the same illness, your body won't have the antibody to fight it.

It wouldn't be a concern if people wouldn't take antibiotics. Some people go to the doctor every time they flush the toilet for fear they contracted Ebola.

[DiesIrae]

It is a concern because the Antibiotics create the antibodies that your body should create for you. If your body never has to make antibodies, then in the future when you contract the same illness, your body won't have the antibody to fight it.

It wouldn't be a concern if people wouldn't take antibiotics. Some people go to the doctor every time they flush the toilet for fear they contracted Ebola.

Righto! Now a "super bacteria" called mrsa is around and can kill someone in 3 days flat. The only thing to treat it is vacomycen (spelling?), the strongest antibiotic, and even that is starting to fail since the bacteria is so rapidly evolving.

[Already_Taken]

How is it contracted, and where is it? And proof...

[Smokey D]

To a degree, I believe all children do have ADD. It is basically having a short attention span. When you try to teach a child to read, they won't care. Some say it's because they have ADD, but I think it is because they are more interested in the fly flying around the room than a book with words.

No. Children being excited and easily distracted is not hte same as having a clinical disorder.

you twist my words a lot too.

You twist what ADD means.

[Already_Taken]

No. Children being excited and easily distracted is not hte same as having a clinical disorder.

Exactly. Some parents think being easily distracted is a surefire sign their kid has ADD.

I think it is more or less a natural thing that should be dealt with naturally, and not with drugs.

[Smokey D]

Do you agree that there can be overdiagnosis of a disorder while at the same time admitting that the disorder is a reality for some people?

[Already_Taken]

Of course.

Everyone would love to blame all of their problems on something they can't control. Oh, I know, let's pick depression!

[Smokey D]

I don't like that attitude because it seems to suggest that no-one who claims to have depression/ADD or whatever is actually ill. The doubt should be explored the other way around -- presume that they're telling the truth, and explore their claim after that.

[Already_Taken]

How can you presume that people who aren't doctors even know the truth?

It is too easy to prescribe drugs to people, and especially children. Just last year at college my friends were able to get a hold of "Lean" and all they had was what I would consider a common cold. I believe that humans have come this far without drugs, and using them now only weakens our species.

[Smokey D]

How can you presume that people who aren't doctors even know the truth?

People who claim an illness but haven't been diagnosed shouldn't be listened to. People who have been diagnosed with an allegedly overdiagnosed illness should be treated as if they're the real deal until proven otherwise.

[stupid dream]

Just look at the amounts of sugar your average westerner munches.

[Jharaski]

While medication is largely destroying our immune systems, we today are better off with it. Sure, we won't be able to fight off that disease should we contract it again due to the lack of natural antibodies, but without medicine, we probably wouldn't have lived to get it a second time anyway. We are living longer now. I mean, a century ago, it was a marvel to live past 80 and uncommon to live past 65.

But we are certainly overmedicated. Every child shows symptoms of ADD. (ok overexaggeration but not by much) There are a lot of directions we can go.

Kids acted like this forever.
Kids are poisoned by TV.
Kids aren't disciplined enough. (doesn't cover "true" ADD)
Some disease awoke from its dormant state and suddenly unleashed itself upon every child born in the past decade.

I'm not willing to go through the possibilities, but I'm willing to bet it's a combination of the first three - mainly the first, some of the second, and a little bit of the third.

[ringworm]

i think it sucks how real treatment & medicine gets so overly abused & exploited where treatments/research for serious problems get the back burner while other more profitable medications that treat pathetic illnesses, at best, get the frontpage

all these companies spend billions marketing "4 Hour Boner" pills, then cry when Bush wont spend Federal money on stem cell research.

Its easy to say we are overmedicated & easy to say, "We didnt have to deal w/ADD when I was a kid", but some DO help, but thanks to lousy parents, bad doctors/shrinks & pharmaceutical companies putting out pills that only come back a few years later with devastating side effects that have patients in worse shape than before, its no wonder

[Noku]

If a kid is having hard time at school and someone thinks it might be because of ADHD, then his parents take him to see a doctor. Doctor thinks through it and prescribes the meds and sees the kid again in few months, mean while the parents observe the changes. If the med worked, good job, if not, then the doc digs up another diagnose and treatment.



The claim that "modern drugs are killing creative and genius minds of today". For example if Einstein had had manic depression, Seroquel might have made him much more productive while he wouldn't have had to go through depressions twice a years. Its the media who kills the creative and genius minds of today.

Also around here public healthcare works well and they have very good regulations and other methods to decrease over/underdiagnosis. Some illnesses are harder to diagnose than others (for example: manic depression is very hard to get diagnosed and it usually takes years before you can be certain)

I am totally against taking antibiotics for flues.

[Axe]

Kids are better off playing in the mud and doing child like things instead of taking drugs to keep them well.
Instead we are breeding an entirely incompinent generation and they will not be able to live without medication.

[DiesIrae]

How is it contracted, and where is it? And proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrsa

Read about it.

[ringworm]

Instead we are breeding an entirely incompinent generation and they will not be able to live without medication.

exactly


boxes and spoons used to occupy children for hours, now, people cant seem to cope with 10-15 mins of boredom

being bored or trying to figure out how to entertain yourself spawns ideas and creations

nowadays, they just throw a DVD or some other elec device in a kids face so they are completely pre-occupied and dont know how to deal with lapses of entertainment, which in turn, creates problems down the road when children find it hard to concentrate, because they've never had to

then schools have to make sure they have the enormous amount of funds it requires to keep up, which only further's the issue


i better stop :)

[dub sean]

That's such a good point.

[Permanent Solution]

overmedication is a problem at least in the united states but it is a dialectical problem because when you are given serious medications, the side effects can eventually lead to problems both similar and dissimilar from the problems it was trying to correct.

For instance, my uncle is autistic and he was on some drug for a couple decades, and as it turns out, new research shows that that drug causes way more problems in people who took it for a long period of time than it ever fixed. So when you stick people on medications when they don't need to be, it's entirely possible they'll end up needing more medication to fix problems they didn't even have before.

[Det_Nosnip]

I like how we've somehow managed to be both overmedicated and under-insured. Kinda ironic when you think about it...

[PerpetualBurn]

It is a concern because the Antibiotics create the antibodies that your body should create for you. If your body never has to make antibodies, then in the future when you contract the same illness, your body won't have the antibody to fight it.

It wouldn't be a concern if people wouldn't take antibiotics. Some people go to the doctor every time they flush the toilet for fear they contracted Ebola.

What the hell are you harping on about? If we didn't prescribe antibiotics a lot more people would die.

There's no need not to take antibiotics.

The only problem is that people often don't finish the course they're given.

[Smokey D]

Not entirely true. Overmedication of antibiotics (ie, prescribing them for viral infections) is also a factor in the rise of drug resistant bacteria.

[DiesIrae]

What the hell are you harping on about? If we didn't prescribe antibiotics a lot more people would die.

There's no need not to take antibiotics.

The only problem is that people often don't finish the course they're given.


??.... The big problem isn't prescibing antibiotics to people who NEED them or people not taking all of them, it is prescibing them to people who DON'T need them. One third of the 150 million antibiotics prescribed last year where unecessary, which leads to bacteria resistance. Once bacteria grow resistant to certain antibiotics, it will become a lot harder to kill. Therefore leading into a worse form.
Drug companies also don't want to invest in developing new antibiotics, since the costs outweigh the profit, so new antibiotics aren't pumped into the market on a "good standing" basis.

[PerpetualBurn]

Bacteria becoming resistant is usually caused by people not finishing the course of antibiotics and fully killing off the infection.

[Smokey D]

That's not the only reason.

[Already_Taken]

Bacteria becoming resistant is usually caused by people not finishing the course of antibiotics and fully killing off the infection.

Okay, but the bacteria doesn't die in a day. You can still pass it to another human while fighting it.

You just like to argue with everything I say. :lol:

[DiesIrae]

Bacteria becoming resistant is usually caused by people not finishing the course of antibiotics and fully killing off the infection.

Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? I acknowledge that that is a problem, but it isn't the big reason why these "suberbugs" sprout up.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

exactly


boxes and spoons used to occupy children for hours, now, people cant seem to cope with 10-15 mins of boredom

being bored or trying to figure out how to entertain yourself spawns ideas and creations

nowadays, they just throw a DVD or some other elec device in a kids face so they are completely pre-occupied and dont know how to deal with lapses of entertainment, which in turn, creates problems down the road when children find it hard to concentrate, because they've never had to

then schools have to make sure they have the enormous amount of funds it requires to keep up, which only further's the issue


i better stop :)

Definatly agree with that one. I've got a script for dexamphetmine myself, I don't need it one bit, some di'ckhead shrink gave it to me (psychologist not psychiatrist, psychiatrists are okay) and now I just take a big pile of em for fun or to stay up all night doing uni work. 3 out of the 4 people in my house are medicated for ADD, one for depression, it's phenomenally stupid.

[Already_Taken]

If you know it is stupid, why do you and your family continue to go to doctors? Nobody is forcing you guys to take medicine.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

If you know it is stupid, why do you and your family continue to go to doctors? Nobody is forcing you guys to take medicine.

I think you may of missed the point of my post.

[Already_Taken]

I may have. What exactly was your point?

[DiesIrae]

Definatly agree with that one. I've got a script for dexamphetmine myself, I don't need it one bit, some di'ckhead shrink gave it to me (psychologist not psychiatrist, psychiatrists are okay) and now I just take a big pile of em for fun or to stay up all night doing uni work. 3 out of the 4 people in my house are medicated for ADD, one for depression, it's phenomenally stupid.

I didn't know a psychologist could give perscriptions.

[Kurrpt]

/\/\

most definitely. so can certain classes of nurses

[DiesIrae]

^^^^^
Learn something new everyday!

[JohnXDoe]

modern medicines are a good thing, k

[italic zero]

/\/\

most definitely. so can certain classes of nurses
depends on the country

[Eliminator]

yaz

[Already_Taken]

Hey guys. The ever intelligent Eliminator (the post above mine) gave me negative rep.

Should I start making ridiculous thoughtless posts in order to get positive rep from such reputable members?

[italic zero]

The problem is that you try, which is commendable, but you're not smart enough to succeed.

[Scuba_Steve]

the problem is you're infamous around these parts

[Permanent Solution]

*you're :)

[Scuba_Steve]

thank you :)

[Steerpike]

And sleeping medications. If you have trouble sleeping at night why don't you go run a mile. It takes 10 minutes at the most, and your body will be much more anxious to sleep. Some people are just so lazy they'd rather take a pill, which most certainly will cause a dependency.

Both myths.

First of all, working out in any way before going to sleep is a bad idea. It will actually make it harder to go to sleep as your body is now working harder and wants to use that energy. And if you're working out to the point of exhaustion to make yourself go to sleep, you're really setting yourself up for problems.

Second, sleeping aids such as melatonin have absolutely no addictive properties whatsoever.

So we're suppressing gifted minds because they're different.

I've taken medication for most of my life and I don't feel suppressed in the least. In fact the only suppression I ever felt growing up was from the people who beat the living **** out of me for having long hair.

Oh wait, sorry that's oppression.

Hnoestly zero, where do you get your facts from?

Kids are way way over-medicated, and not just for things like ADD or ADHD but also for minor physical problems. I am a firm believer in the concept that because drugs create resistance to their effects just through the very fact of regular use, and because their constant use at a young age for things like distractability and even things like colds and especially depression, serves only to inhibit the clarity of one's mind, not to mention the degree to which it allows it to reach a full state of functional maturity.

Again, I've been medicated for most of my life, but I don't believe it's made me a worse person. Possibly because I actually do have real psychological and medical problems.

Is this all too accessible? Yes.

But at the same time, I seriously doubt that my parents smacking me around and sending me to my room for an entire day with no food would have improved a depressive episode.

It wouldn't be a concern if people wouldn't take antibiotics. Some people go to the doctor every time they flush the toilet for fear they contracted Ebola.

We call those people hypocondriacs and offer them psychological treatment.

[PerpetualBurn]

Hey guys. The ever intelligent Eliminator (the post above mine) gave me negative rep.

Should I start making ridiculous thoughtless posts in order to get positive rep from such reputable members?

You neg repped me for saying that appeals to emotion are fallacies. So stop sobbing.

[italic zero]

Someday there'll be a cure for pain. That's the day I'll throw my drugs away.

[BassVirtuoso]

They even have a drug for restless leg syndrome nowadays. I seriously thought everyone did that.

[Knifeboy]

Yeah, what the **** is that?.. I do the thing with the leg.. But it's not like I can't stop if people ask me to

[italic zero]

I think that's the kind where you do it not just sitting down, but at night so it wakes you up all the time.

[spitfirejunky]

I'm pretty much on a boycott against the pharmaceutical industry.

I rarely even take aspirin.

[italic zero]

do you chew willow bark?

[spitfirejunky]

I do push-ups.

[pedro durruti]

The pharmaceutical industry definitely splooges all over us with its propaganda bullshit through the capalist initiative!! And that's what makes it so bad, that it's deceiving people about some made-up medical problem simply for profit rather than the benefit and betterment of society. Take for instance viagra, which seeks to completely undo the psychological issues involved with impotence and turn it into a "rebellious penis" problem. If your penis isn't submitting to your sexual commands, then that means it's not the work of you, or your mind, but something that you can't help, so it's just like having a cold.

[Smokey D]

Er, you just conflated the issues surrounding impotence at least as much as pharmaceutical companies.

Also, Viagra is a bad example because there is a valid medical reason to help people achieve erections, even if the problem is psychological. And besides, lots of the time it's not -- old people have a physiological difficulty.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Any psychological issue behind impotence is nothing compared to the psychological issues being impotent causes. I've had a problem with it just once (which was drug induced) and i felt like an utter fu'cking failure as a human being, so I can imagine how you'd feel if it was recurring

[Knifeboy]

Viagra is a viable treatment for impotence, even when it is a psycological issue.
When you're impotent, you're afraid that you'll never be able to get it up again
Viagra relieves that stress

[PerpetualBurn]

Perhaps there's a case to be made that the ready availability of viagra and similar drugs means that some people don't ever deal with the underlying causes of their problem. This I can understand.

It doesn't really mean that viagra shouldn't be prescribed to them though. It means they should get other treatment (medicative or therapeutic) alongside it.

[pedro durruti]

Er, you just conflated the issues surrounding impotence at least as much as pharmaceutical companies.
What?
Also, Viagra is a bad example because there is a valid medical reason to help people achieve erections, even if the problem is psychological. And besides, lots of the time it's not -- old people have a physiological difficulty.
Viagra is a viable treatment for impotence, even when it is a psycological issue.
When you're impotent, you're afraid that you'll never be able to get it up again
Viagra relieves that stress
I know it's completely valid and for many it is nothing but physiological, but by medicalizing impotence and sending the message that it's the same as a mere cold- turning the man into a "helpless victim" who shouldn't be ashamed of impotence because this is so- it undermines the psychological causes involved and viagra only serves as a sort of quick-fix.

What's really to blame is the cultural expectations of masculinity and sexuality drilled into the minds of men, though. However, pharmaceutical companies are just pouncing on this and intentionally dismissing the psychological issues involved. Again, Viagra and Levitra and whatnot are not bad in themselves, and there are many cases of men whose problem is completely physiological in nature, but the message is all wrong.

[Smokey D]

What?

You represented impotence as purely a psychological problem with a limited range of treatment options that involve exploring the male wounded psyche. That is as much as an oversimplification as drug companies and their drugs. But you corrected yourself further down.


I know it's completely valid and for many it is nothing but physiological, but by medicalizing impotence and sending the message that it's the same as a mere cold- turning the man into a "helpless victim" who shouldn't be ashamed of impotence because this is so- it undermines the psychological causes involved and viagra only serves as a sort of quick-fix.

Here.

But still, you are ignoring the fact that most men would want to get it up regardless of their deep seated emotional problems.


What's really to blame is the cultural expectations of masculinity and sexuality drilled into the minds of men, though.

I don't think that's all that comes into play when you can't get it up.

And I don't think it matters what teh source is.

Again, Viagra and Levitra and whatnot are not bad in themselves, and there are many cases of men whose problem is completely physiological in nature, but the message is all wrong.

Even if the problem is psychological, they should have the option of medicating.

[pedro durruti]

But still, you are ignoring the fact that most men would want to get it up regardless of their deep seated emotional problems.
Of course, but most men would also want to discover why they are always so flaccid if not for a purely broken penis (although that is being harsh!), rather than rely on a medicine that can exacerbate an underlying problem.

I don't think that's all that comes into play when you can't get it up.

And I don't think it matters what teh source is.
Yeah, there are a wide range of psychological issues that can allow this to happen, but I think a fear of poor performance and notions of masculinity factor into it often.

I disagree, the source must be addressed if the condition is to be truly ameliorated. Otherwise it might only be fixed in the short-term. Any psychological issue causing physiological distress should be confronted and dealt with fully.
Even if the problem is psychological, they should have the option of medicating.
And pharmaceutical companies pushing this medicalized agenda should be chastised for only offering this option.

[Oriah]

If it comes from the ground then I'm fine with it.

[GreyHam]

how does prescription work in the US? is it government subsidised or do you have to pay full wack

[Reaganista]

people have private insurance in america..

[GreyHam]

so the GP gives you a prescription for whatever, and your insurance covers the cost...and if you dont have insurance then you just pay out?

do prescription meds cost different amounts, or is it a set fee per item

[Reaganista]

if you don't have insurance you go on medicaid or medicare
and different medications have different prices..