2012

[brensten32]

i was reading and watching videos about mayan prophecy of the world coming to an end. Then i ran into a couple of videos and websites about other similar events that were supposed to take place on the same exact date as mayans predicted, december 21, 2012 such as meteorites hitting the earth, earth flipping inside out, and revelation taking place. most of the time, i don't really mind these type of prophecies or any other type of predictions (as Y2K turned out to be false) but being a christian and all that, I actually think this is going to happen. I'm not gonna preach or anything but i think it's interesting/scary (unless you truly believe in God) and I just think it's impossible for all this to be a mere coincidence. What do you guys think of this?

on the side note, i also heard from my friend that people will have to start caring some computer chips with them but i'm not sure if it's true. he told me that this relates to revelation because chips are like the markings of 666 and whoever that has the marks or the chips will be the only ones to survive after dec 21 2012.

[Mr. Ron]

Its all crap.

[dei]

I think you need to stop believing in silly things.

[Seafroggys]

2012 is just 100 years from an awesome era in music! :thumb:

[apple pie]

Didn't they stop the calender because they just dissapeired.

[brensten32]

it's nice that all you guys don't seem to care about it because i actually think that it would've been better if i didn't know about it. Then i wouldn't have to worry so much but it's hard not to believe when you are a christian.

[dei]

Didn't they stop the calender because they just dissapeired.

I was told that they had like different "periods," for lack of a better word. 2012 was supposed to be the end of one period and the start of another. But everything's really the same and ****. Like, there are no real changes except in their head. Kind of like how when the year 2000 came, we entered a new millenium but nothing changed.

I am not smart enough to word this **** properly.

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

nah it's just when the next tool album comes out

[Mr. Ron]

it's nice that all you guys don't seem to care about it because i actually think that it would've been better if i didn't know about it. Then i wouldn't have to worry so much but it's hard not to believe when you are a christian.

^^^^

[apple pie]

it's nice that all you guys don't seem to care about it because i actually think that it would've been better if i didn't know about it. Then i wouldn't have to worry so much but it's hard not to believe when you are a christian.

well you christian sure were right about


06/06/06

[brensten32]

I was told that they had like different "periods," for lack of a better word. 2012 was supposed to be the end of one period and the start of another. But everything's really the same and ****. Like, there are no real changes except in their head. Kind of like how when the year 2000 came, we entered a new millenium but nothing changed.

I am not smart enough to word this **** properly.

i hope you are true but you can't be when i am a Christian! (i mean it can't be true to me. im not saying you are wrong.)

it's also hard to just stop believing in something you believed your whole life. well, actually, i was a buddhist when i was in korea but i converted to a Christian when i came to US when i was about 8 years old.

also, my friend said that the other religions predicted the same thing.

[dei]

well you christian sure were right about


06/06/06

This.

[Mr. Ron]

i hope you are true but you can't be when i am a Christian! (i mean it can't be true to me. im not saying you are wrong.)

it's also hard to just stop believing in something you believed your whole life. well, actually, i was a buddhist when i was in korea but i converted to a Christian when i came to US when i was about 8 years old.

also, my friend said that the other religions predicted the same thing.

Listen dude, all religions have end times stories and prophecies because its a necessary part of a grand story for believers to look forward to.

[brensten32]

well you christian sure were right about


06/06/06

i know

sometimes, I even think that many of what Christians say are wrong but this time, it's not just the Christians saying that it's going to take place, but scientists, mayans and many other people saying that world is going to have a new beginning or come to an end or whatever they wish to call it. that's why it seems more reasonable to me

[HNLzero]

This is obviously when Apple releases the super Ipod/phone/camera/camcorder/computer/dishwasher/car

[brensten32]

maybe you guys should check out Nostradamus. he can predict future or something and he predicted that 9/11 was going to happen and all the other stuff. I don't really know about him and im looking at some videos about him on youtube right now. but my friend just told me about him right now.

[apple pie]

oh the guy who said a bird was going to fly into a building.

Religon to the most part it very vague and thus is easy accepted.

[Mr. Ron]

i know

sometimes, I even think that many of what Christians say are wrong but this time, it's not just the Christians saying that it's going to take place, but scientists, mayans and many other people saying that world is going to have a new beginning or come to an end or whatever they wish to call it. that's why it seems more reasonable to me

Woooaahhhhh I never heard a real, credible scientist buy into this end of times stuff.

maybe you guys should check out Nostradamus. he can predict future or something and he predicted that 9/11 was going to happen and all the other stuff. I don't really know about him and im looking at some videos about him on youtube right now. but my friend just told me about him right now.


Ok, I call gimmick account.

[apple pie]

no this Nostradamus said that a bird will fly into a building

[brensten32]

i wish i can be so careless about it like you guys.

so i am guessing most people are atheist or agnostic in this forum. or at least the people who replied in this forum.

[StreetlightRock]

For such a staunch Christian you surely buy into Mayan mythology and astrology fairly easily.

[brensten32]

i guess i do believe in things pretty easily.

it's just so crazy how so many of the predictions are so similar.

[italic zero]

I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, or disbelieve.

[apple pie]

lol well all these religous scholars, and I say scholars very vaugly, say vauge statements that can be easily twisted around to prove a religon to be anything less moot

[Mr. Ron]

i wish i can be so careless about it like you guys.

so i am guessing most people are atheist or agnostic in this forum. or at least the people who replied in this forum.

Its not being careless....its just seeing all of this for what it is.

[apple pie]

i wish i can be so careless about it like you guys.

so i am guessing most people are atheist or agnostic in this forum. or at least the people who replied in this forum.

well this is more less conspricay and I am not a consprisits, I don't know if that is a word, but I do not buy into conspircay because it is based on fact and random bullshit.

[spitfirejunky]

What a load of bullshit.

[Chu]

Ummm, y2k did happen, and there was an effect from it.

Just because it didn't happen on the massive scale they were thinking, doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. People had been working for years because they knew what y2k was going to do.

(If you don't know, most early computers were pretty scarce with memory, so the programmers would often save a few bytes by only having a 2 digit year (As in 69 for 1969 or whatever), the problem occurred when it ticked over to 2000, because the computers would just tick back to 1900, this is talking about legacy programs made in the late 70's and early 80's, by the end of the 80's, most people had realised computers would indeed make it into the 21st century, so they started fixing where they went wrong in the past (Not necessarily by going back to the old programs and changing them, because of backwards compatibility issues, but any product they created from that time on, would use a 4 digit year).

So, just to correct your statement "as Y2K turned out to be false" :)

[Eliminator]

thanks for the valuable information chu

[Chu]

I read a lot of useless crap :)

[thedeadwalk!]

maybe you guys should check out Nostradamus. he can predict future or something and he predicted that 9/11 was going to happen and all the other stuff. I don't really know about him and im looking at some videos about him on youtube right now. but my friend just told me about him right now.
He didn't predict 9/11. In fact, the quote attributed to him is from another author giving his own example of how Nostradamus' work is so vague and can be applied to anything. Kind of ironic.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/predict.htm

[Already_Taken]

Christians demanded the world was flat in the 16th century, and they tried Galileo for heresy because he suggested the world may in fact be round.

[MegaPhony]

I kind of look at it in two ways.
I may be ignorant, but this is my two justifications:
1) Ok, let's say that all the clocks stopped in Hiroshima at whatever time it was, 8:15 or what have you.
Then along came a new civilization, or culture and we had no rational explanation for the clocks stopping at this particular day at this time, what could this mean? An urban legend is born.
2) Now, the more logical explanation.
The Mayans didn't even have the Julian/Gregorian calendar...
Let's say they knew the cycle was 365.25 days or whatever.
How does it just..end?
Is there a written prophecy, or does the calendar just end?
If I find a calendar that ends on Dec 31st 2010, does that mean the world will implode?

The matter of fact is, there is no matter of fact.
The most intriguing thing I found was that you kept mentioning christianity in all of this.
Christ never existed for the Mayans, so what bearing does it have on them?
If you are a sinner, you will be doomed.
If you weren't, you will be saved.
Or so you believe...

[Chu]

See how people interpret things, completely believing them with no underlying facts to it.

This pisses me off, it's like people don't really care if it's true so they just believe it (I figure, if people cared about it, they might actually do some research into it).

[dei]

Christians demanded the world was flat in the 16th century, and they tried Galileo for heresy because he suggested the world may in fact be round.

But the world is flat! The Flat Earth Society told me!

[apple pie]

I love how we have disclaimed the ts ideals so much over the course of this thread.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

If you stop being a Christian your fears dissipate. The only thing you've got to work around given this end-time scenario is how to go about ceasing to be a Christian.

But yes TS the machine elves will take over the world.

[PerpetualBurn]

The only thing in this thread that upsets me is the mention of Tool making another album.

[redleaf]

tool>burn

[Meatplow]

Think of the world outside of the construct of dates, which is an entirely human concept.

2012 does not exist. Night turns into day and day turns into night, loop loop. If the world ends something will cause it and it will not happen simply because a date ticks around, namely something like the Hadron Collider which gets switched on next year ;)

[Loser]

2012... does exist? yo.

It's when the earth finishes some cycle in its tilt and the sun is lined up with the exact center of the Milky Way. No clue how the Mayans knew that.

The world's not going to end though. If the Mayans were right about everything, they'd probably still exist.

[Meatplow]

Was it also the Mayans that knew about Sirius B some many years before a telescope powerful enough could possible know that kind of indepth astrology? Dogans i think not sure.

[ringworm]

the only thing that needs to be worried about in the near future are the tax increases that are coming when Bush's tax cuts end and the Dems begin the largest tax hike in history

[PerpetualBurn]

And how to stop Tool releasing another album.

[ringworm]

lol :)

i have yet to sample the last one, any good at all? they tend to bore me most of the time, but a few songs are cool

[PerpetualBurn]

I enjoy the occasional Tool song, admittedly.

But usually they aim at arty and pretentious and land in ****.

[TheDarkHorse]

it's nice that all you guys don't seem to care about it because i actually think that it would've been better if i didn't know about it. Then i wouldn't have to worry so much but it's hard not to believe when you are a christian.
This thread has been around.

And I find it harder to believe as a believer in Christ, especially since no dates are given.



so i am guessing most people are atheist or agnostic in this forum. or at least the people who replied in this forum.
I take it you're new here

[Jude]

If you're a Christian then why would you believe in prophecies made by a completely different religion

[TheDarkHorse]

It seems as though he's tying in the date of the end of the world with the revelation(which is still contradictory in belief).

[Jude]

Well it might help if he knew that Revelation is a political allegory and not a prediction of the end times.

[Already_Taken]

It is actually more complex than anything anyone in here has said. The Mayans had multiple calendars, which combined were more accurate than the modern calendar we have. (Keep in mind ours is off by 24 hours every 4 years.) These calendars all end on June 5, 2012, coincidentally the day that all of the planets line up or something.

In the past when this happened, it was symbolic of the end of one era and the entrance to another, and apparently the era that starts in 2012 is "Spiritualism".

TS: Why would you believe something so far fetched that some hick told you the other day? And I thought people realized religion was a hoax when they learned about Santa Clause?

Read this ling to be further enlightened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar#See_also

[TheDarkHorse]

Well it might help if he knew that Revelation is a political allegory and not a prediction of the end times.

Yes, but that is debatable.

I've actually heard more end of the world scenarios taught out of the book of Ezekiel than Revelation.
And I thought people realized religion was a hoax when they learned about Santa Clause?
Um, what?

[Dinosawesome]

In the last decade, by my count, prophecies from different religions and people have predicted the world would end atleast a dozen time.

And yet I'm still here.

[Grohlthegreat]

I think you guys are forgetting something...

Large Hadron Collider.

[Meatplow]

i already posted that i believe, i've mentioned it so much it tends to get ignored

[apple pie]

I do not fully understand what that is. Could someone explain it to me?

[Meatplow]

A big machine that's going to create black holes and destroy the universe which scientists are going to switch on next year in the name of science.

That's a worst case scenario though. There are many big name scientists battling over whether it is safe or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider#Safety_concerns

[apple pie]

does that not violate like the human rights act.

[Meatplow]

Many agree it is theoretically sound, so i guess not.

[brensten32]

i just freak out whenever i read things like this and i end up posting threads about them all the time. (9/11 conspiracy theories and screams of the damned) but then i stop worrying about it because i am always proved wrong. i also do admit, that i can be very unconvincing with no proofs and off topic most of the time. I am an immigrant and im not very good at english nor sounding smart nor being reasonable so im sorry if that pisses u off.

and i used to come to mx forums all the time but i don't really know the people here. I just recently started posting again

[apple pie]

Many agree it is theoretically sound, so i guess not.

in the end something will happen and it will not actually start, but what are they trying to prove as a result of this?

[Light_Fantastic]

Its all crap.

This..
5 years from now I will still have 20K credit card debt and be 5 years closer to the grave. Everything else should stay the same.

[Meatplow]

in the end something will happen and it will not actually start, but what are they trying to prove as a result of this?

They are trying to understand the fundamentals of creation by recreating the conditions of the big bang or something.

i just freak out whenever i read things like this and i end up posting threads about them all the time. (9/11 conspiracy theories and screams of the damned) but then i stop worrying about it because i am always proved wrong. i also do admit, that i can be very unconvincing with no proofs and off topic most of the time. I am an immigrant and im not very good at english nor sounding smart nor being reasonable so im sorry if that pisses u off.

and i used to come to mx forums all the time but i don't really know the people here. I just recently started posting again

I tend to think of it this way, people have a way of dwelling on the worst of ideas. When they hear something as consumingly scary as a conspiracy theory or an end of the world situation the imagination fills in many blanks that don't get searched for validity. The truth is probably much more bland and prosaic then the reality of things....

[apple pie]

here is a new theroy the world will end is 2112, because Rush relased that album in 1976. Rush has 4 letters in it, both years have 4 numbers and the avarage song length on the album is roughly 4 minutes

[apple pie]

[QUOTE=Meatplow;15153240]They are trying to understand the fundamentals of creation by recreating the conditions of the big bang or something.


[QUOTE]


Why does it matter how it happened, can't we just be thankful that it did happen?

[Meatplow]

There is also a lengthy description on the internet that justifies David Hasselhoff being the antichrist with scarily indepth research, but i'm still not going to read into it too much.

Why does it matter how it happened, can't we just be thankful that it did happen?

Scientists have inquisitive minds, and technology is progressing. They want to play with their toys.

[apple pie]

So what if I had a morbid mind and bought and gun, could I play with it, knowing the consequences could be the same.

[Meatplow]

Like i said to brensten there the truth is probably much more bland and prosaic then the reality of things.

[Jude]

here is a new theroy the world will end is 2112, because Rush relased that album in 1976. Rush has 4 letters in it, both years have 4 numbers and the avarage song length on the album is roughly 4 minutes

The average song length is more like 6.5 minutes judging by the mental calcuation I just did so you're a fraud

[iliketoplaydrums10111]

haahahahahahhahahahahhaha

[Independent_CA]

As a Christian, you should know that Revelation also says that nobody will know "the day or the hour" that this event will occur. The Mayans were normal human beings like the rest of us, therefore their guess can't be right.

If the world was actually going to end, it would probably be so sudden and violent that most of us wouldn't even have time to crap our pants.

[Meatplow]

I wonder what Sollog would have to say about this.

[Det_Nosnip]

lol.

[Eliminator]

As a Christian, you should know that Revelation also says that nobody will know "the day or the hour" that this event will occur. The Mayans were normal human beings like the rest of us, therefore their guess can't be right.

If the world was actually going to end, it would probably be so sudden and violent that most of us wouldn't even have time to crap our pants.


hahahahah

[apple pie]

The average song length is more like 6.5 minutes judging by the mental calcuation I just did so you're a fraud

well not if you take all the sub parts of the song 2112, then it is 3:12 I think.

but 6+5 is 11, omg Rush did 9/11 I am just trying to prove the idoicy of these theories.

[PerpetualBurn]

Why does it matter how it happened, can't we just be thankful that it did happen?

Yeah why even bother testing scientific principlies they're probably right.

[apple pie]

Yeah why even bother testing scientific principlies they're probably right.

No it's not that, but why do something that is potentially going to reverse the effect of the big bang theory, when the purpose of it is to prove why the big bang happened.

[PerpetualBurn]

What do you mean "reverse the effect of the big bang theory"?

The point of experimentation is to see what happens and to see if we can be disproven.

[apple pie]

well no but it can cause a blackhole, which would suck the unverse inwards, destroy it. So they could essentially kill the universe as a result of trying to figure out exactly how it started.

[Eliminator]

blackholes dont suck the universe inwards and destroy it.

[apple pie]

well if an object gets in the gravitational pull of the black hole that object it pretty much done with. This is one of the may causes of concern that a black hole is going to be created and "inhale' some of the universe is it not?

[Chu]

Do you think there aren't any active black holes? :confused:

Edit: You can *see* black holes.

[apple pie]

yes but none man-made and realitivly close to the earth

[italic zero]

dude...

[StrangeVision]

dude...

123

[spitfirejunky]

well no but it can cause a blackhole, which would suck the unverse inwards, destroy it. So they could essentially kill the universe as a result of trying to figure out exactly how it started.

You do realize that this won't happen right?

[Meatplow]

well no but it can cause a blackhole, which would suck the unverse inwards, destroy it. So they could essentially kill the universe as a result of trying to figure out exactly how it started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJ6PMfnz2E

Watch this series of videos might shed a bit more light for you.

Do some research you'll find most people agree that black holes will *most likely* disappear due to Hawking Radiation, which is theoretical but generally approved as a sound theory. The other thing about the black holes is that they do remain if anything they will be so tiny they will take forever and a day to grow to a size that could destroy the earth in one giant gulp.

[apple pie]

well then why is this thing such a big deal?

[Meatplow]

well then why is this thing such a big deal?

It probably isn't.

It's only one way the world could end though, if this is freaking you out you probably best not click on this link -

http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm

[apple pie]

oh it is not freaking me out, I just want to known because at first glance at the article I thought it was a bigger deal then it actually was.

[Aaron]

I'm christian and I think this thread is ****ed.
Bring on 20,000 days.

[132WalrusesInMexico]

2012 is just 100 years from an awesome era in music! :thumb:
Hell yeah

[Meatplow]

1912?

Not much happening back then i am sure. :)

oh it is not freaking me out, I just want to known because at first glance at the article I thought it was a bigger deal then it actually was.

It could be. The scientists are absolutely positive it is safe, but they themselves will be the first to tell you they can't prove it. We'll have to wait and see.

[Eliminator]

well then why is this thing such a big deal?

weren't you making a big deal out of it before

[IbanezArtist]

1912?

Not much happening back then i am sure. :)





2112


Rush Album.:naughty:

[Knifeboy]

well then why is this thing such a big deal?

It really isn't and meatplow should stop posting about it because he's creaiting fear with ignorance

[Sexypastries]

tbh if the world ended that would be tight

i welcome the apocalypse

[Det_Nosnip]

1912?

Not much happening back then i am sure. :)


Aaah! Please tell me you're being sarcastic! :eek:

Birth of jazz...late Romanticism...neoclassicism...post-tonality...

early 20th century FTW.

[YDload]

Hey "brensten32" I heard that on December 21, 2012 the Mayan god of gullibility will smite the world with his incredibly believable presence.

[Reaganista]

i would totally convert to a religion with a god of gullibility

[Det_Nosnip]

Jesus will save me.

[Meatplow]

Aaah! Please tell me you're being sarcastic! :eek:

Birth of jazz...late Romanticism...neoclassicism...post-tonality...

early 20th century FTW.

Yes but nothing mattered before popular music in the 50's.

I'm only kidding.

[blockhead]

Dear threadstarter don't believe everything you hear you dumbass. There is no proof that Christianity is correct, don't just believe something because somebody else told you to. Think for yourself.

[Smokey D]

Wait wait wait? Don't believe something because someone else told you? Er, you have to see the problem with this.

[StrangeVision]

Dear threadstarter don't believe everything you hear you dumbass. There is no proof that Christianity is correct, don't just believe something because somebody else told you to. Think for yourself.

You live up to your title.

[Dinosawesome]

I think what he means is "don't believe it just because one person told you to believe it- go research it or ask around and find out for yourself".

Which is a good point- TS sounds like his friend said "the world will end in 2012" and he accepted it blindly.

But he still said it like a blockhead (oho how witty of myself)

[blockhead]

I don't see how I said it "like a blockhead" but if that makes you feel better go ahead. I just meant that the threadstarter sounds very gullible and I think he should think about what he believes a little bit more.

[Already_Taken]

I don't see how I said it "like a blockhead" but if that makes you feel better go ahead. I just meant that the threadstarter sounds very gullible and I think he should think about what he believes a little bit more.
He thinks about it plenty, obviously. He should focus more on finding objective proof for himself.

[blockhead]

The threadstarter is an idiot, I don't understand why he's being defended. He's saying "zomg guyz the end of the world predicted by dee mayan calender I have to believe cuz i am teh Christianz." Being a Christian has nothing to do with it, the guy is just an idiot.

[Already_Taken]

Okay blockhead, everyone can tell the TS is naive. We're trying to help him. He sounds like he's 13. He's getting opinions from all over the world on this issue, and I don't think you've helped one bit. In fact in my history as an MXer I don't think you've ever helped anything one bit.

Nobody likes you, that's why we stick up for the naive TS, and not you, retard.

[descendents1]

The mayans are sick. I saw a vid on this from a nazi teacher I had when I was younger. I think all this 2012 stuff is BS, and I'm a christian. It's NONSENSE.

[Already_Taken]

Some believe that Mayans had more advanced mathematics than we do today. I would believe it, based on their astronomy and calendars, etc.

[YDload]

they weren't more advanced than we are today, they were more advanced than Western mathematicians at the time (which excludes the Arabian and Indian dudes, of course).

[descendents1]

Some believe that Mayans had more advanced mathematics than we do today. I would believe it, based on their astronomy and calendars, etc.

This would be pretty funny if it was true. Their symbol for zero was a loaf of bread.

[Already_Taken]

This would be pretty funny if it was true. Their symbol for zero was a loaf of bread.

So what? A loaf of bread + a loaf of bread = a loaf of bread.

The symbols you use for math do not matter, it is the abstract principles that are the actual math. Discrediting their mathematics based on the symbol they used for "0" is ignorant and invalid.

[YDload]

the fact is, they came up with the concept of zero before the West did.

[descendents1]

So what? A loaf of bread + a loaf of bread = a loaf of bread.

The symbols you use for math do not matter, it is the abstract principles that are the actual math. Discrediting their mathematics based on the symbol they used for "0" is ignorant and invalid.

But a pile of flint multiplied by a loaf of bread = a loaf of bread, and that's where it all falls apart, because the bakeries are closed on Sundays.

I wasn't discrediting anything. I was joking. I know for a fact that their mathematics weren't more advanced than modern math. The modern computation we can output just kicks Mayan mathematics in the face and then does a spinning dropkick for good measure. And I know the symbols for math don't matter. Jeez louise.

[descendents1]

the fact is, they came up with the concept of zero before the West did.

This is true and this is cool. So calling someone a "zero" did not necessarily imply the same negative connotations at the time in western society.

[blockhead]

Okay blockhead, everyone can tell the TS is naive. We're trying to help him. He sounds like he's 13. He's getting opinions from all over the world on this issue, and I don't think you've helped one bit. In fact in my history as an MXer I don't think you've ever helped anything one bit.

Nobody likes you, that's why we stick up for the naive TS, and not you, retard.

I tried to help him too, I told him to think for himself. And I don't really give a **** whether people on the internet like me, that's not my problem.

[Independent_CA]

I tried to help him too, I told him to think for himself. And I don't really give a **** whether people on the internet like me, that's not my problem.

Well, your myspace friend request will certainly be denied by me...

[Smokey D]

I tried to help him too, I told him to think for himself. And I don't really give a **** whether people on the internet like me, that's not my problem.

Yeah, but your point was pretty stupid.

I wasn't even defending ts, I was just saying what you said didn't make sense.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

God I hate the Mayan apologist/revisionist views. We're talking about people who

1. Hadn't thought of the wheel
and
2. Routinely practiced human sacrifice. Symbolic sacrifice (animal for human, money for animal etc) is one of the real keystones of a civilised society (along with agriculture etc.). Basically Incans, Aztecs and Mayans all sucked a huge pile of arse.

[Smokey D]

Um, lots of agricultural societies practised human sacrifice.

[blockhead]

Um, lots of agricultural societies practised human sacrifice.

Well that makes them all pretty stupid doesn't it?

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Symbolic sacrifice is a "step" towards civilisation. Agriculture and so forth are other steps. If your society is still nomadic/practices human sacrifice/hasn't discovered fire, you're primitive.

EDIT: Scratch the nomadic, the Bedoin and so forth are actually fairly advanced.

[Already_Taken]

God I hate the Mayan apologist/revisionist views. We're talking about people who

1. Hadn't thought of the wheel
and
2. Routinely practiced human sacrifice. Symbolic sacrifice (animal for human, money for animal etc) is one of the real keystones of a civilised society (along with agriculture etc.). Basically Incans, Aztecs and Mayans all sucked a huge pile of arse.

That is the most ethnocentric view I've ever heard. The only reason you think human sacrifice is stupid is because if we practiced it you would probably be at the front of the line.

[Sexypastries]

yeah it has nothing to do with the senseless waste of humans

[irishslappop]

yeah it has nothing to do with the senseless waste of humans

what do you think war is?

[YDload]

the mayans were taking steps toward great things but that all stopped when they got conquered

[Reaganista]

Symbolic sacrifice is a "step" towards civilisation. Agriculture and so forth are other steps. If your society is still nomadic/practices human sacrifice/hasn't discovered fire, you're primitive.

EDIT: Scratch the nomadic, the Bedoin and so forth are actually fairly advanced.
hay you dont know what civilization is

[pedro durruti]

God I hate the Mayan apologist/revisionist views. We're talking about people who

1. Hadn't thought of the wheel
and
2. Routinely practiced human sacrifice. Symbolic sacrifice (animal for human, money for animal etc) is one of the real keystones of a civilised society (along with agriculture etc.). Basically Incans, Aztecs and Mayans all sucked a huge pile of arse.
Animal sacrifice is largely a product of whether or not animal meat is available to be sacrificed. And there were many societies that practiced animal sacrifice that did not advance beyond band or village society. Furthermore, human sacrifice is no more contemptible than gladiator rings or the Crusades.

[lunchforthesky]

Animal sacrifice is largely a product of whether or not animal meat is available to be sacrificed. And there were many societies that practiced animal sacrifice that did not advance beyond band or village society. Furthermore, human sacrifice is no more contemptible than gladiator rings or the Crusades.

Or any other war.

[Det_Nosnip]

That is the most ethnocentric view I've ever heard. The only reason you think human sacrifice is stupid is because if we practiced it you would probably be at the front of the line.

lol.

There's nothing ethnocentric about believing that human sacrifice is wrong.

By your logic, it is also ethnocentric to view the Holocaust as wrong.

[descendents1]

That is the most ethnocentric view I've ever heard.

Are you serious? You've never heard any views more ethnocentric than that?

[Reaganista]

no opposition to human sacrifice is a pretty textbook case of ethnocentrism

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Yeah it's ethnocentric. Perhaps I don't agree with cultural relativism.

[Reaganista]

um i dont see how you can really disagree with it but even if you did
how does that effect anything

[RIP Ian Curtis]

It affects my view of another culture obviously. Rather than saying "all cultures are equal" it's saying "cultures without human sacrifice are better than those with human sacrifce".

[Reaganista]

um actually cultural relativism says people's actions should be evaluated relative to their culture

[Smokey D]

It says they are equal (in that one is not inherently better than the other), not better. But I'm going to be archaic and say that societies where people
do not kill one another arbitrarily are better than those that do.

[Reaganista]

cultural relativism has nothing to do with judging one culture against another

by the time you get to cultural relativism (halfway through your first ANTHRO 101 lecture) it's already assumed that you understand what a ridiculous endeavour that is

[Smokey D]

So what you're saying is that a basic assumption of cultural relativism is that you cannot apply value judgments from one culture to another because each culture judges itself differently. This is functionally the same thing no culture is better or worse than any other, only different..

[Det_Nosnip]

No...it's not the same thing. It's saying that Hitler should be judged within the culture of 1940 Nazi Germany, not 21st century America. Whether one culture (e.g, Nazi Germany) is "better" or "worse" than another isn't even addressed, even though it's fairly obvious which one is.

I honestly don't see much of a problem comparing cultures. Many people have been held back and/or propelled forward by their cultures. Maybe I've overcome the P.C. fear of passing cultural judgements by working in schools long enough to recognize a correlation, but I definitetly have noticed some cultures that are in need of...err..."tweaking?"

For example: Inner city ghetto black culture. Yes...the very existence of the culture is pretty much a result of white opression...but either way, their cultural values are REALLY holding them back. Of course this doesn't count every single African American that has ever lived within the city ghettos, but as far as the dominate population...yeah. Many of them don't value education...teachers are often met with as much opposition to learning from the parents as the kids. Too much use of physical punishments ("beatings") which encourages violent behavior. Incredibly poor dietary habits resulting in rampant obesity and early onset diabetes. Little trust or regard for the law (again: DEFINTETLY a result of past and *sigh* present experiences) lead to frequent incarcerations and/or altercations with police.

Another example: Southern white Redneck culture. Again...its formation was a product of the times, but irregardless, it's something that has to go. Eerily similar to the above example, actually, with alot of the same problems.

People are loathe to admit that something like a person's culture could be holding them back, but...if not that, then what? Millions of people have stepped off the boat poorer than sin and risen out of it. If one can assume, rightly so, that race has nothing to do with it, one has to find an alternate source for the problem...and "being poor" simply isn't enough of an excuse when compared to the waves of poor immigrants who have since moved on.

A few example of "propelling" cultures:

Judaism. Stereotypes of Jews abound...and yet, they're mostly* positive. "Jews are good with money." "Jews are great musicians." "Jews are really smart." etc.

The thing is...these stereotypes are mostly TRUE. If we are again to assume that a person's birth and/or race/ethnicity does not play a factor, what remains is a person's culture. In many Jewish families, children are taught from an early age to question the world around them, and receiving a good education is thought to be of paramont importance. In place of the idiotic puritanical "Protestant Work Ethic" of working as hard as you possibly can and expecting some sort of reward for it, many Jewish families encourage their children to work "smart, not hard." Working for one's self or owning a business are considered the most ideal situations. Instead of "savings accounts," children are given mutual funds and taught not the value of saving/hoarding money, but of using the money you have to make more money.

Etc.

[-Obscurity-]

This would be pretty funny if it was true. Their symbol for zero was a loaf of bread.

Ha ha, leave it to the Mexicans to somehow incorporate food into everything!

[Det_Nosnip]

lol!