two years of recording woes and counting

[Wlokos]

For as long as I can remember, I've had issues with recording on this computer. When I record one track, it's fine - but the second track always has issues, and every track from there on out. Sometimes it's just lag. Sometimes, I record the track, and when I listen back, it slowly speeds up or slows through throughout the track - it's not just me having bad tempo, because I've tested recording a metronome twice and it happened - so that by the end of the track, it's a beat or two off. Once I was even getting random horrible loud static whenever I recorded a second track - but never on the first one.

I've tried switching from audacity to adobe audition (didn't work). I've upgraded my sound card. I've upgraded my RAM to 1.5gigs. I've gotten a new harddrive, too, virus free. Nothing helps. I have no idea what to do, and it's become a very severe problem that won't allow me to record anything other than single tracked acoustic/singing stuff, and it's really limiting me.

I ask you all: what could be causing it? I've tried everything I or my friends can think of. I don't know what else there is that I could do.

if there's any other information that would be helpful in figuring it out, just ask.

[Moseph]

For as long as I can remember, I've had issues with recording on this computer. When I record one track, it's fine - but the second track always has issues, and every track from there on out. Sometimes it's just lag. Sometimes, I record the track, and when I listen back, it slowly speeds up or slows through throughout the track - it's not just me having bad tempo, because I've tested recording a metronome twice and it happened - so that by the end of the track, it's a beat or two off. Once I was even getting random horrible loud static whenever I recorded a second track - but never on the first one.

I've tried switching from audacity to adobe audition (didn't work). I've upgraded my sound card. I've upgraded my RAM to 1.5gigs. I've gotten a new harddrive, too, virus free. Nothing helps. I have no idea what to do, and it's become a very severe problem that won't allow me to record anything other than single tracked acoustic/singing stuff, and it's really limiting me.

I ask you all: what could be causing it? I've tried everything I or my friends can think of. I don't know what else there is that I could do.

if there's any other information that would be helpful in figuring it out, just ask.

What sound card did you upgrade too? How fast is the new hard drive? What's the processor and speed? What OS are you using, and what drivers are you using with your sound card?

Smart money says it's one of those things. For a brief list:

1) CPU should be as fast as possible. Only the high-end recording software makes use of dual-processors right now, so for Audition (which I don't think utilizes dual processors yet) one big processor is better than a dual with slower speeds. This is definitely true of Audacity and most freeware as well.

2) RAM should be fine after about 1GB. 512 MB is the recommendation, and unless you do a lot of sampling, use a lot of soundfonts, or lots of loops you ought to be fine with 512 MB and have nothing at all to worry about with 1.5 GB.

3) Hard drives should spin at 7200rpm or higher. Additionally, it's smart to have two hard drives: one to run the software and OS, and the other to stream data to/from. That puts less work on the reading head of each hard drive.

4) Sound cards should be specifically designed for audio recording, rather than general use. A lot of people have had a good experience with higher end consumer cards (like the Soundblaster Audigy) but for the same price you can get a dedicated recording interface with mic preamps. USB/Firewire devices are cheap, easy to install, and typically have good driver support from the manufacturer.

5) Latency is a killer, and it is most heavily influenced by your choice of hardware and the drivers you use to run it. Macs should have OSX and CoreAudio drivers for all hardware these days. Windows machines should be using ASIO 2.0 or WDM drivers. By the way, latency is the reason you have lack of sync between tracks with the metronome (assuming you line up the tracks after recording them).

6) Make sure your computer matches the specs for your software. It's not generally a big deal, but an older machine running newer software can have major problems, just like with any non-audio software that's too taxing on your computer.

[Wlokos]

Sorry about never responding, I meant to and then I forgot. Thanks a lot for the list, it really helped me track down my likely problem.

Most of what I have matches up with with that list - but I'm thinking that my sound card might be the culprit. I have a 'Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit' sound card. Would that be too low for recording multiple tracks?

If so, could you recommend a specific card that would work for what I'm trying to do, preferably for as low a cost as possible (though function > cost, obviously).

[Seafroggys]

Sound Blaster Live!'s are awesome, I have one.

But they're a playback soundcard, not a recording soundcard. So for what you want to do, they'll probably suck.

[Wlokos]

That makes sense - I got it a year and a half or so ago for my midi stuff, and then for my FL Studio stuff once I moved on to that. It's been great for those purposes, which was why I never imagined it as the culprit.

[Wlokos]

If so, could you recommend a specific card that would work for what I'm trying to do, preferably for as low a cost as possible (though function > cost, obviously).

[Moseph]

If so, could you recommend a specific card that would work for what I'm trying to do, preferably for as low a cost as possible (though function > cost, obviously).

Yeah, you never said what you are trying to do. You said you wanted to record, which can mean you want a MIDI/soft synth setup, a single microphone in a room, or a full-on 32-channel simultaneous multi-track setup.

That being said, I'd look into a 2-channel USB interface with mic preamps and phantom power. It sounds like you want MIDI too, so look into:

Lexicon Lambda
Emu 0404|USB
M-Audio Fast Track Pro
Tascam US-122L

You should be able to get all of them for around $200 USD

[Wlokos]

A single mic in a room is all I really need right now, maybe two at once but if that would boost the price too much I wouldn't need it.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it - I'll do some research on the cards you suggested and pick one that seems appropriate.

Edit: Yeah, the M-Audio Fast Track Pro sounds absolutely perfect for what I want/can afford right now. Thanks again, this is a big step in improving my recording capabilities.

[barry2]

hey i guess ill just stop my other thread and post in hear since its kinda the same.
Well those arent sound cards...right they just plug into usb

[Moseph]

Well those arent sound cards...right they just plug into usb

The basic difference between a "sound card" and an "audio interface" is the name. In terms of basic essential functionality, each does the same thing.

USB/Firewire interfaces tend to offer good performance like a similar PCI device, but they offer an easier install.

[barry2]

Ok but i got a computer genius/uncle that said hed help me.
Uhh and so if i get an audio interface i could get a average soundcard? for like 50-80 then?

[Moseph]

Uhh and so if i get an audio interface i could get a average soundcard? for like 50-80 then?

You're missing the point. If you get a decent audio interface for recording, you won't need another sound card.

When manufacturer's stamp "audio interface" on a product what they're really saying is that the device and drivers are designed for recording/mixing purposes. This normally means two things: high quality data (as measured by sample rates and bit depths) and low latency operation.

While most consumer grade sound cards can probably give you decent data quality, where most fail is the latency aspect. Most humans notice a delay in expected sound if there is a log of about 10-15 ms (normally closer to 8-10 ms for musicians).

For things like playing music, applying effects, and mixing, this latency becomes pretty unmanageable beyond about 60 ms.

(check out this article for more info http://www.whirlwindusa.com/wwlatart.html)

Low latency hardware and drivers solve this problem, which is particularly prevalent for things like soft synths and real-time monitoring of recorded tracks. That's really why you want to be getting a low latency audio device.

As for cost, you could go with something less expensive like the Lexicon Alpha, but what you're really doing is making it more expensive for yourself later, since certain essential equipment won't be part of the device (mic preamps, phantom power, MIDI).

[barry2]

well i got the that but you need a sound card for a computer correct?
And me and my uncle are building one.... and he said get a list of the things you need for recording.

Thanks for your help i think i got it now.

[Moseph]

well i got the that but you need a sound card for a computer correct?

No, you don't. You can use your audio interface for the sound card if you need to. I can't figure out how to say it any simpler: there is no inherent functional difference. You're simply using a better version of the same device.

[barry2]

Ooooooooohhhhhhhh
I see
....sorry for the trouble.

[barry2]

hey im back again
im still a kid so i still get b-day presents lol
and mines in a month and i was planning on asking for a really good recording software.
what would be some good ones?
adobe audition
steinberg cubase?
cakewalk
i dont really know.

[Moseph]

Well, I think your best bet in that case is something less expensive (Cubase4 is around $800 without tax).

In terms of cost, Cakewalk (makers of Sonar) have a wide selection of pretty powerful packages for good prices.

The best answer if to figure out what you know you need, and find what software has all of those features, or the largest subset of them.

Or you could go to the corporate websites and watch the flash demos, check out screenshots, maybe read through some manuals. You might even search YouTube for user made tutorial videos showing how the software works. Based on that, whatever seems easiest for you to grasp is probably the best choice.

That being said, most audio hardware interfaces will come with some pretty solid DAW software (normally Cubase LE, Ableton Live Lite 4, or Sonar LE). Since you're a beginner, I'm convinced that any of those will have a strong feature set for you. You could take the $300-800 gift of software away, and instead ask that money is spent on other necessities like mics, preamps, DI boxes, or cables.

[barry2]

aight cool
I'm surpised your not a mod here your really helpful. and quick too.
i thought cubase was only like 200...or at least where i saw it was.

[Moseph]

i thought cubase was only like 200...or at least where i saw it was.

You probably saw Cubase SE, which is only marginally different than Cubase LE, which is probably included in whatever hardware you purchase.


I'm surpised your not a mod here your really helpful. and quick too.

The short response to this: they'd never make me a mod.

[barry2]

ah okay
why wouldn't they make you a mod?

[barry2]

ugh more problems

/ question

if i have this computer with an internal hard drive that spins 5,400 rpm and and external hard dive that spins 7,200 would that be okay?

[Moseph]

ugh more problems

/ question

if i have this computer with an internal hard drive that spins 5,400 rpm and and external hard dive that spins 7,200 would that be okay?

I'm not going to promise that you'll have no problems, but my setup is like this and I don't. Use the external drive to handle audio streaming/writing, and the internal for storing/running programs.

Also, make sure your external is connected using an appropriately fast connection. Firewire 400 or 800, or USB 2.0 is okay. USB 1.1 is not.

[barry2]

ok thx