Is this the common mindset of the Americans?

[Mr. Ron]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w_YzZIVMFgg

If you can actually sit through his moronic drawl...and bigotry...and broken English thats on a 3rd grade level...

He actually thinks that them attacking us has NOTHING to do with our involvement over in the middle east, and this is actually common mindset in the media and people. He also thinks they all live in caves...they have no reason behind their cause...and thinks people like Ron Paul should be locked up for voicing their opinion and thinks he's a TERRORIST for saying what he said.


Now, I have run into MANY people like him in NY, and I can only imagine what its like in the south of Midwest. Have any of you ever encountered this much ignorance in people on this topic before?

What do you think makes people THIS uninformed?

[Dr Hooch]

This is awkward for all involved....

[Mr. Ron]

I just hope its a sick joke.

[peeted]

Was that a joke? I have honestly never met anyone that thick, i live in the uk though.

[Iscariot]

i've never really met anyone like that but oregon is a pretty liberal state

[Kurrpt]

i can't watch it


but thats part of the hatred mindset. Obviously, if you would learn the truth about that other culture, well, you wouldn't exactly have anything to hate.

[ringworm]

"them people lives in caves…yaw"

I have to admit to TONS of moronic statements regarding the ME I've made before coming here

Its easy to be in your living room watching footage of handkerchief wearing loonies, death, sand and irratrional violence and visualize the entire region to be similar to whats on TV.

I have to admit I still find myself disgusted with that entire region and wish peace ONLY for selfish reasons with no concern for the people that live there due to the widespread generalized behavior associated with them.

[Kage]

It's not the common mindset of Americans, no.

[Akira]

I could only watch a little, the guy's speech made me cringe.

Here's what's funny though:
I didn't actually watch the debate, but on my way to school the next morning I was listening to highlights on NPR. I heard that Ron Paul (I can't get over the two first names) quote. So I get to school, and at lunch that day I brought it up to a politically minded friend of mine, since I really thought it was cool that he said that. So then another kid at the table (a perfectly reasonable, nice kid) said essentially what this guy is saying: Ron Paul is an idiot for thinking that.
I was dumbfounded. Are people really this uneducated?

[AIRIC]

I wonder where he lives exactly?


"You know I gotta say it, you just gotta kill 'em. That's the only solution you got."

[White]

not all americans, but about 98% of Alabama haha

[AIRIC]

Have you ever been to Alabama or the south at all?

[Mr. Ron]

I could only watch a little, the guy's speech made me cringe.

Here's what's funny though:
I didn't actually watch the debate, but on my way to school the next morning I was listening to highlights on NPR. I heard that Ron Paul (I can't get over the two first names) quote. So I get to school, and at lunch that day I brought it up to a politically minded friend of mine, since I really thought it was cool that he said that. So then another kid at the table (a perfectly reasonable, nice kid) said essentially what this guy is saying: Ron Paul is an idiot for thinking that.
I was dumbfounded. Are people really this uneducated?

Paul's comment on 9/11 and the like is perfectly reasonable. People just get knee jerk-y when people say things that might be misconstrued as "anti-American".


The thing that disturbed me the most is his willingness to send people off to the torture dungeons if they even dissent....

[gregulus]

not all americans, but about 98% of Alabama haha

you're an idiot.

to answer the original question: no, the majority of American's don't think that.

[Kayetan]

Also, I'm pretty sure that that video is a joke. If you watch his other videos...

[Knifeboy]

Christ you people
Try reading the comments?

starpilot1 (3 hours ago)
This is a video response. Hasn't been approved yet. Maybe they thought I was serious? I thought that surely no one would take this one seriously, but look at some of the comments! hehe.

[Akira]

The problem is that it isn't that hard to take it seriously because there are in fact people who think that.

[Interviewer/surveyer]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w_YzZIVMFgg

If you can actually sit through his moronic drawl...and bigotry...and broken English thats on a 3rd grade level...

He actually thinks that them attacking us has NOTHING to do with our involvement over in the middle east, and this is actually common mindset in the media and people. He also thinks they all live in caves...they have no reason behind their cause...and thinks people like Ron Paul should be locked up for voicing their opinion and thinks he's a TERRORIST for saying what he said.


Now, I have run into MANY people like him in NY, and I can only imagine what its like in the south of Midwest. Have any of you ever encountered this much ignorance in people on this topic before?

What do you think makes people THIS uninformed?

First off, nothing we did over there prior to 9/11 was deserving of what happened on 9/11. NOTHING. If you even try to make excuses for the terrorist acts of 9/11, you should be hung.

But no, many Americans are not like this. Most Americans disapprove of the Iraq war and want us out. (which is how I think)

I dont care what "reasons" they had for killing 3,000 people (my people) the way they did, its not ever going to be a good enough reason.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, there are stupid Americans, stupid French, stupid Irish, and so on.

[Knifeboy]

The problem is that it isn't that hard to take it seriously because there are in fact people who think that.

But how hard is it to just skim the comments to see if it was a joke or not?
instead of making a thread >:|

[A Spoonful Supreme]

The general mindset of America is as follows...

I don't give a ****

and/or

I don't know ****
and I don't know I don't know ****

[Knifeboy]

And
I don't give a **** about not knowing ****

[Mr. Ron]

Christ you people
Try reading the comments?

starpilot1 (3 hours ago)
This is a video response. Hasn't been approved yet. Maybe they thought I was serious? I thought that surely no one would take this one seriously, but look at some of the comments! hehe.
I did not see that, my fault. BUT, even as a joke, his comments represent serious opinion of a lot of people in this country.

[Mr. Ron]

First off, nothing we did over there prior to 9/11 was deserving of what happened on 9/11. NOTHING. If you even try to make excuses for the terrorist acts of 9/11, you should be hung.

But no, many Americans are not like this. Most Americans disapprove of the Iraq war and want us out. (which is how I think)

I dont care what "reasons" they had for killing 3,000 people (my people) the way they did, its not ever going to be a good enough reason.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, there are stupid Americans, stupid French, stupid Irish, and so on.

No one is saying we deserved 9/11, we're talking about WHY they did it, and that includes our involvement in the middle east.

[griftadan]

this is obvious satire. ron paul supporters control the internet, they do stuff like this all the time.

[-1up!-]

First off, nothing we did over there prior to 9/11 was deserving of what happened on 9/11. NOTHING. If you even try to make excuses for the terrorist acts of 9/11, you should be hung.

But no, many Americans are not like this. Most Americans disapprove of the Iraq war and want us out. (which is how I think)

I dont care what "reasons" they had for killing 3,000 people (my people) the way they did, its not ever going to be a good enough reason.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, there are stupid Americans, stupid French, stupid Irish, and so on.

My, that sounds a lot like that guy on YouTube.

You're saying nothing Americans ever did over there was deserving of 9/11. Sorry to burst your bubble but obviously some thought otherwise. Stop with your pro-American arrogance of deciding nothing was deserving 9/11 but keeping the silence of how Americans are ****ing up Iraq

And most Americans approved of the Iraq war as it was launched, but it took years of revealed lies, billions of dollars engulfed in the conflict and a lousy president at the head of it all to make them realise Iraq was a blundering mess. It's crap to say Americans disapprove of the Iraq war without specifying the number of years it took them as a population to start and reject it.

[Mr. Ron]

First off, nothing we did over there prior to 9/11 was deserving of what happened on 9/11. NOTHING. If you even try to make excuses for the terrorist acts of 9/11, you should be hung.

But no, many Americans are not like this. Most Americans disapprove of the Iraq war and want us out. (which is how I think)

I dont care what "reasons" they had for killing 3,000 people (my people) the way they did, its not ever going to be a good enough reason.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, there are stupid Americans, stupid French, stupid Irish, and so on.
Not to be rude or anything, but you're a jerk off.


Why do you hate free speech?

[A Spoonful Supreme]

3 rivers of muslim rage, anybody know what they are

[Reaganista]

did you watch the video it's a response to

where ron paul explains why we were attacked on 9/11

and rudy says that's the craziest thing he's ever heard

edit: so i watched the video and it's basically a steven colbert impression with a stupid accent idk how you all got tricked by this

[A Spoonful Supreme]

thomas friedman

[Danger Bird]

Is this the common mindset of the Americans?
Well, obviously

[Light Fantastic]

First off, nothing we did over there prior to 9/11 was deserving of what happened on 9/11. NOTHING.

hm yeah you just caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people using sanctions for no reason

not that the people who died on 9/11 deserved it, but really if you want an eye for an eye then it wasnt even much in comparison

9/11 isnt this huge event you are making it out to be.. you say it like it was the greatest tragedy you've ever known ._.


also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYkr435zPHU

and this is what his pr people want you to see so :I

[A Spoonful Supreme]

SORRY ToO BUSY WATCHING AMERiCAN IDOL TO CARE!

[FA]

that has to be a joke...

[AA-12]

People are just ****ing retarded on every side. The right wing is just as stupid as the left. Humans can't reason with anything. They only want to better themselves.

[Akira]

that has to be a joke...

Yes. Read the thread. We have established that.

[Woundweaver]

"I mean you can torture me if you layyk.... well... maybe not BUT-"

Oh christ how I laughed...

If you even try to make excuses for the terrorist acts of 9/11, you should be hung.

Yeah I agree with 1up, ron etc. That's a pretty retarded thing to say.

I notice also how the US is made out to be very much this "Moral state" and totally opposed to any use of WMDs (I hate that phrase) Yet as a state, it has been a huge user of such weapons in the past 60 years. The only country to ever fire a nuclear weapon on a civillian target? TWO in fact... Napalm usage on entire villages of civillians in Vietnam? Okay I may be stretching it back a bit there. But it does seem a wee bit hypocritical to me...

[VomitStainedCretin]

I notice also how the US is made out to be very much this "Moral state" and totally opposed to any use of WMDs (I hate that phrase) Yet as a state, it has been a huge user of such weapons in the past 60 years. The only country to ever fire a nuclear weapon on a civillian target? TWO in fact... Napalm usage on entire villages of civillians in Vietnam? Okay I may be stretching it back a bit there. But it does seem a wee bit hypocritical to me...Yes, kind of like the British Empire in the late 19th century claiming to be the world's policeman then inventing concentration camps.

[Hababi]

I'm leaning toward believing that this is actually a parody. EDIT: And upon reading some of the rest of the thread, I rest assured that my initial theory is validated :p

And Ron Paul is an idiot.

[Woundweaver]

Yes, kind of like the British Empire in the late 19th century claiming to be the world's policeman then inventing concentration camps.

True, you've got me there.

But at least we drink enough tea to justify it :thumb:

Earl Grey ftw.

[Knifeboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYkr435zPHU

and this is what his pr people want you to see so :I

This is the kind of guy, that makes the rest of the world think lowly of americans

[A Spoonful Supreme]

People are just ****ing retarded on every side. The right wing is just as stupid as the left. Humans can't reason with anything. They only want to better themselves.

yeah everyone's stupid but islamic extremists are still the crowning achievment of stupidy, and Islam is my #1 disliked religion

[Mr. Ron]

I'm leaning toward believing that this is actually a parody. EDIT: And upon reading some of the rest of the thread, I rest assured that my initial theory is validated :p

And Ron Paul is an idiot.

How? He actually wants to uphold the Constitution, which has been pissed on by most presidents.

[Mr. Ron]

Woah, if anything you'd think Rudy would at least tell the truth about what happened to his city. Nothing like riding people's emotions, huh?

[VomitStainedCretin]

True, you've got me there.

But at least we drink enough tea to justify it :thumb:

Earl Grey ftw.I was just making a comparison, all imperial superpowers attempt to justify their actions by claiming the moral high ground; I'm a British resident in any case. I also drink a lot of tea, though just the normal sort. By the way, is your username taken from the character Magnus Woundweaver in David Gemmell's Legend?

[Reaganista]

And Ron Paul is an idiot
he's pretty smart as far as idiot go tho

[Hababi]

How? He actually wants to uphold the Constitution, which has been pissed on by most presidents.

He's a racist and is dead wrong about foreign policy. And there's also a bit of antisemitism in his past.

[Akira]

He's a racist and is dead wrong about foreign policy. And there's also a bit of antisemitism in his past.

Let me guess, he doesn't unwaveringly support Israel? :rolleyes:

[Woundweaver]

I was just making a comparison, all imperial superpowers attempt to justify their actions by claiming the moral high ground; I'm a British resident in any case. I also drink a lot of tea, though just the normal sort. By the way, is your username taken from the character Magnus Woundweaver in David Gemmell's Legend?

It is! You know, in the 5 years i've been using this username, your only the second ever person to pick up on this? =p

The other was some guy on a phone line while I was ordering a new contract phone...

I guess people just need to read some better fantasy novels eh?

[griftadan]

I'm leaning toward believing that this is actually a parody. EDIT: And upon reading some of the rest of the thread, I rest assured that my initial theory is validated :p

And Ron Paul is an idiot.

if this isn't enough reason to vote for him, i'm not sure what is

[Hababi]

Let me guess, he doesn't unwaveringly support Israel? :rolleyes:

Anyone with an AIPAC conspiracy complex is an antisemite. And some of his past literature has hinted at that.

[Eliminator]

i love how guliani became angry when ron paul said that stuff

even though ron paul has horrible speaking skills from what i've seen

[griftadan]

Anyone with an AIPAC conspiracy complex is an antisemite. And some of his past literature has hinted at that.

where?

[Hababi]

where?

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

[Iskandar]

'Anybody who has ever been robbed by black youth can tell you how fleet-footed they can be."

wtf

[peeted]

They are all morons, Ron paul's right about 9/11 though. The fact he said that proves how stupid he is though, id bet that Rudy thinks the same thing but knows that he'd get lynched for saying it, hes just playing of peoples emotions.

[Iscariot]

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

oh but he loves the constitution so let's make him president

>_>

[Iskandar]

Ron Paul has a very arrogant attitude about his political beliefs.

He also wrote: "Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action."

[Eliminator]

muslims hate freedom

[Illmatic]

He also wrote: "Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action."

so he aligns himself with the "utopian bullshit" party?

[griftadan]

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

well i'll take what is said on has campaign website and what can be observed through voting records over cherry picked quotes from decades ago. besides i don't see how opposing the israeli lobby makes him an anti-semite.

[Iskandar]

so he aligns himself with the "utopian bullshit" party?Yep.

[Woundweaver]

muslims hate freedom

You're an idiot.

At least learn something about a major relegion before just discriminating against what? 2 billion people? More?

[Iscariot]

Your an idiot.

At least learn something about a major relegion before just discriminating against what? 2 billion people? More?

actually you're the idiot for taking him seriously

[AA-12]

and for spelling you're as your

[Mr. Ron]

Oh wow, someone that has said something racist a long time ago is so shocking! Steve, everyone has said something racist before in their lives. Plus, you call anyone an anti-Semite who doesn't kiss Israeli *** lovingly, so I'm not going to take your word for it.


Plus, I don't see what is so horrible about his foreign policy. Our foreign policy that we have had in the past has gotten us where we are today, and thats in a whole lot of ****.

[Iscariot]

Oh wow, someone that has said something racist a long time ago is so shocking! Steve, everyone has said something racist before in their lives. Plus, you call anyone an anti-Semite who doesn't kiss Israeli *** lovingly, so I'm not going to take your word for it.


Plus, I don't see what is so horrible about his foreign policy. Our foreign policy that we have had in the past has gotten us where we are today, and thats in a whole lot of ****.

actually our foreign policy in the past has gotten us where we are today, and that's still existing as a nation

[griftadan]

you mean with more international commitments than can practically have?

[AA-12]

People need to learn how messed up Israel is.

[Mr. Ron]

actually our foreign policy in the past has gotten us where we are today, and that's still existing as a nation

Yeah, but you have to see where we are today: In a world of **** due to our interventionist policies.

[Iscariot]

Yeah, but you have to see where we are today: In a world of **** due to our interventionist policies.

our current situation roots in far more than our interventionist policies which by the way have been an american obligation since the foundation of the united nations

[AA-12]

The UN is a big problem in the first place.

[Reaganista]

He's a racist and is dead wrong about foreign policy. And there's also a bit of antisemitism in his past.

you're a racist too though I don't see the problem

[Mr. Ron]

our current situation roots in far more than our interventionist policies which by the way have been an american obligation since the foundation of the united nations

Of course there are more reasons why everyone hates us and all the trouble we're in, but it really doesn't help that we invade countries whenever we feel like it.

[Hababi]

Oh wow, someone that has said something racist a long time ago is so shocking! Steve, everyone has said something racist before in their lives.

:lol: You just can't take it that you support a racist.

Find me racist literature in anything ever from Mike Huckabee, or Sam Brownback, or Mitt Romney.

Guess what? You won't. Ron Paul is a fringe whacko with a racist and anti Jewish past. And you support him.


Plus, I don't see what is so horrible about his foreign policy. Our foreign policy that we have had in the past has gotten us where we are today, and thats in a whole lot of ****.

Isolationism and non interventionism is for dummies.


you're a racist too though I don't see the problem


Except that I'm not a racist.

[Illmatic]

:lol: You just can't take it that you support a racist.

Find me racist literature in anything ever from Mike Huckabee, or Sam Brownback, or Mitt Romney.

Guess what? You won't. Ron Paul is a fringe whacko with a racist and anti Jewish past. And you support him.

you won't find any "racist literature" but I find it hard to believe that three rich white Republicans are not racist in some way.

[Reaganista]

dude being a mormon is worse than some passive racism imo

Except that I'm not a racist.
maybe tell that to a palestinian i guess?

[Iskandar]

People need to learn how messed up Israel is.It's doing better than most other countries in the region.
Isolationism and non interventionism is for dummies.In what way? Neutrality made Switzerland prosperous.

[Iscariot]

Of course there are more reasons why everyone hates us and all the trouble we're in, but it really doesn't help that we invade countries whenever we feel like it.

i agree unchecked government operations are out of control and the idea of how easily manipulated the political system is to allow such things to happen is discouraging but shutting the door and vouching for an isolationist approach is like putting a knife in the back of our economy and our country as a whole and giving it a good twist

we don't need one extreme or the other we need a happy middle ground where we do deploy to other countries when we're genuinely needed and we have a stronger congressional balance and presence in presidential decisions

the fact that our entire congress can pass a bill that could help improve our situation and the president can just as easily say "i'm going to veto that because i don't like what it entails" is disgusting

where is the litigation and consideration that our government is supposed to have for the desires of the people

[Mr. Ron]

:lol: You just can't take it that you support a racist.

Find me racist literature in anything ever from Mike Huckabee, or Sam Brownback, or Mitt Romney.

Guess what? You won't. Ron Paul is a fringe whacko with a racist and anti Jewish past. And you support him.



Isolationism and non interventionism is for dummies.



Except that I'm not a racist.
Um, Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and therefor thinks blacks and other non-whites are dark skinned because its a punishment for not being "pure". You might have overlooked that.

Steve, I think you're calling Paul a fringe wacko is the pot calling the kettle black. ;^]

Invading countries and bestowing our way of life on people is suicidal for a nation and it's well being. Or should I say an empire?

[AA-12]

It's doing better than most other countries in the region.

Nazi Germany did pretty good too :p

Point is, there's so much horrible stuff going on there that just gets looked over thanks to us being "friends" with them.

[Mr. Ron]

i agree unchecked government operations are out of control and the idea of how easily manipulated the political system is to allow such things to happen is discouraging but shutting the door and vouching for an isolationist approach is like putting a knife in the back of our economy and our country as a whole and giving it a good twist

we don't need one extreme or the other we need a happy middle ground where we do deploy to other countries when we're genuinely needed and we have a stronger congressional balance and presence in presidential decisions

the fact that our entire congress can pass a bill that could help improve our situation and the president can just as easily say "i'm going to veto that because i don't like what it entails" is disgusting

where is the litigation and consideration that our government is supposed to have for the desires of the people

The people themselves signed that away long ago. We are to blame.

[Iscariot]

The people themselves signed that away long ago. We are to blame.

no one willingly signs away their freedom what has happened has been a result of unchecked manipulation in the political process both socially and internally

how many average american citizens are as politically informed as they should be

politicians play on ignorance to further support for their ill-motivated ideals which is part of the reason i mentioned in the other thread that i'd like to see public education take a big turn for the better because that could at least aide the situation

[Woundweaver]

People need to learn how messed up Israel is.

I don't agree with this.

As someone who lives in an area where there is a high population of Muslims, and who has several friends who are in fact, Muslims, I find this kind of offensive. The vast majority of the problems within my area are caused by white chavs drinking white lightning on street corners, not by members of this religion who seem to be made out to be some form of evil-doer simply by their belief system.

Yes, their entire religion, and the states that are governed under it are built upon a completely different mindset, which is why the whole idea of a "war of relegious enforcement" is completely rediculous! You can never build or enforce a middle eastern state upon western idiologies.

In fact in my personal experience, I've found Muslims to be far more affable and open minded to other people's belief systems than most of the other major belief systems within my area. Namely Catholics.

[Mr. Ron]

no one willingly signs away their freedom what has happened has been a result of unchecked manipulation in the political process both socially and internally

Not willingly, but ignorantly. Most people don't even know what the patriot act is, for example. But I agree with most of what you're saying.

[Iscariot]

his comment wasn't against muslims it was against the israeli government

Not willingly, but ignorantly. Most people don't even know what the patriot act is, for example.

yeah i edited just a sec ago

[AA-12]

Seriously, when the hell did I say anything about muslims :lol: This dude is slowwwwwwwwwww

[Iskandar]

Nazi Germany did pretty good too :p

Point is, there's so much horrible stuff going on there that just gets looked over thanks to us being "friends" with them.Israel isn't comparable to Nazi Germany. Their treatment of the Palestinians isn't genocide.

[AA-12]

It wasn't a comparison by any means, just an example of what I meant. Sorry about that.

[Iskandar]

It wasn't a comparison by any means, just an example of what I meant. Sorry about that.No, that's okay, I understand what you meant.

[Reaganista]

Israel isn't comparable to Nazi Germany. Their treatment of the Palestinians isn't genocide.
forced relocation of a population is genocide

[Iskandar]

forced relocation of a population is genocideThey're not slaughtering them in camps, are they?

[griftadan]

Guess what? You won't. Ron Paul is a fringe whacko with a racist and anti Jewish past. And you support him.

step one: try to discredit the opponent by drowning everyone in irrelevency

Isolationism and non interventionism is for dummies.

depends on the situaiton entirely.

[Reaganista]

They're not slaughtering them in camps, are they?

no they're forcing them to relocate what's your point

[Iscariot]

forced relocation of a population is genocide

no it isn't

the systematic extermination of an entire race or people is genocide

stop mixing definitions

[Reaganista]

no it isn't

yes it is

the systematic extermination of an entire race or people is genocide
good to know that nobody has ever carried out a genocide then

[Iscariot]

yes it is
good to know that nobody has ever carried out a genocide then

stop being ignorant relocation =/= genocide

how do you even support or validate a claim like that

[Iskandar]

yes it isgen·o·cide /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/
–noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. [/QUOTE]I don't see relocation in there.
good to know that nobody has ever carried out a genocide thenDon't be a technical little bitch, you knew what he meant.

[Illmatic]

stop being ignorant relocation =/= genocide

how do you even support or validate a claim like that

forcing people to abandon their homeland and way of life is awfully damn close to genocide.

[Iscariot]

forcing people to abandon their homeland and way of life is awfully damn close to genocide.

close yes but accurately defined no

[Illmatic]

then I don't think debating the technicalities of the word "genocide" is necessary when we all agree that forced relocation is every bit as bad.

[Iscariot]

forced relocation does not directly attribute to the death of the people being relocated

relocating those people to labor camps and feeding them to the gas chamber three times a day would be genocide

[italic zero]

forced relocation of a population is genocide
I thought that was why we invented the term ethnic cleansing

[Smokey D]

Genocide involves erradicating not only a group of people, but the self-identification of that group as that people.

Many cultures define themselves with reference to their physical space, which would mean that forced removal would have genocidal implications, but I don't think it's accurate to say it's genocide as such.

Ethnic cleansing is a much more accurate term, I think.

[Iscariot]

Genocide involves erradicating not only a group of people, but the self-identification of that group as that people.

Many cultures define themselves with reference to their physical space, which would mean that forced removal would have genocidal implications, but I don't think it's accurate to say it's genocide as such.

Ethnic cleansing is a much more accurate term, I think.

i can agree with this

[Hababi]

Um, Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and therefor thinks blacks and other non-whites are dark skinned because its a punishment for not being "pure". You might have overlooked that.


Find proof, don't just sit there and make broad and inaccurate generalizations. So far, your guy is the only one with a racist past.


Point is, there's so much horrible stuff going on there that just gets looked over thanks to us being "friends" with them.

Dude most of that is caused by the Palestinians, whether it's initiating conflict with Israel or with each other.

[Reaganista]

stop being ignorant
no you

gen·o·cide /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/
–noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. I don't see relocation in there.

the dictionary
are you kidding

Don't be a technical little bitch, you knew what he meant.

what

forced relocation does not directly attribute to the death of the people being relocated
of course it does

I thought that was why we invented the term ethnic cleansing
ethnic cleansing is exactly the same thing as genocide

we invented the term because we previously decided that we should always be obligated to intervene to stop genocide
and then later decided we didn't want to uphold that obligation
so genocide became ethnic cleansing

[griftadan]

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

apparently someone underneath paul wrote that newsletter. he was fired later

http://thecrossedpond.com/?p=574

[Mr. Ron]

Find proof, don't just sit there and make broad and inaccurate generalizations. So far, your guy is the only one with a racist past.



Dude most of that is caused by the Palestinians, whether it's initiating conflict with Israel or with each other.

ITS A PART OF HIS RELIGION STEVE.

Here's a nice video that sums up what he actually believes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo


anddd this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w9fdVJY-4k


Hell, he believes in fricking aliens for christ sakes.

[Krabsworth]

That guy in the vid looks like Jim Morrison.

[Hababi]

ITS A PART OF HIS RELIGION STEVE.

Here's a nice video that sums up what he actually believes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo


anddd this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w9fdVJY-4k


Hell, he believes in fricking aliens for christ sakes.

:lol: I always love when people link to videos of other people explaining what people believe. Why don't you ask Romney himself? Because I guarantee you that he is no racist, unlike your candidate.

[Krabsworth]

Mitt Romney is lame.

[italic zero]

no, i've seen him walk

[Krabsworth]

politically lame

[-1up!-]

:lol: I always love when people link to videos of other people explaining what people believe. Why don't you ask Romney himself? Because I guarantee you that he is no racist, unlike your candidate.

How strange that you didn't reply to this: apparently someone underneath paul wrote that newsletter. he was fired later

http://thecrossedpond.com/?p=574

So hum let's pretend Ron Paul actually said those racist remarks 20 years ago. Is he a racist forever because of them? Can a man have a change of mind, or is it that in American politics people value what you say NOW just the same as what you said decades ago?

"OMG man I can't vote for this guy he voted against tax cuts back in '77 he's a commie omg omg"

[griftadan]

:lol: I always love when people link to videos of other people explaining what people believe. Why don't you ask Romney himself? Because I guarantee you that he is no racist, unlike your candidate.

paul isn't racist

[Mr. Ron]

:lol: I always love when people link to videos of other people explaining what people believe. Why don't you ask Romney himself? Because I guarantee you that he is no racist, unlike your candidate.

Um, its fact that Mormons are taught that non-whites are inferior. It's not hard to venture a thought that he has lasting thoughts of racial inequality in his psyche from what he believes in so fervently.

Respond to griftadan's link also, that would be nice. Stop being so delusional.

[griftadan]

yeah i'll agree with tway i'd take racist over mormom anyways

or maybe we can discuss policy instead of wasting our time in irrelevency?

[Hababi]

How strange that you didn't reply to this:

So hum let's pretend Ron Paul actually said those racist remarks 20 years ago. Is he a racist forever because of them? Can a man have a change of mind, or is it that in American politics people value what you say NOW just the same as what you said decades ago?


Paul publically defended the statements made in his campaign literature.

And how incredibly hypocritical it is, to say the least, to attempt to smear a person for their religion while avoiding the ugly past of the politicians you support. Between Mike "White Power" Gravel and Ron "Fleet footed blacks" Paul, you have quite a pair. Always willing to look past insanities when a candidate steps up to the plate and hurls careless, blame-America rhetoric.


or maybe we can discuss policy instead of wasting our time in irrelevency?


I don't want a politician whose staff put out racist literature anywhere near the White House.


or maybe we can discuss policy instead of wasting our time in irrelevency?


False. Maybe you'll want to ask Nath.

[Mr. Ron]

Paul publically defended the statements made in his campaign literature.

And how incredibly hypocritical it is, to say the least, to attempt to smear a person for their religion while avoiding the ugly past of the politicians you support. Between Mike "White Power" Gravel and Ron "Fleet footed blacks" Paul, you have quite a pair. Always willing to look past insanities when a candidate steps up to the plate and hurls careless, blame-America rhetoric.



I don't want a politician whose staff put out racist literature anywhere near the White House.

Um, America is to blame for a lot of it's problems. It's not like everything isn't our fault.


How don't you see that this guy actually believes that various gods on different planets, made non-whites to be inferior?

[Hababi]

How don't you see that this guy actually believes that various gods on different planets, made non-whites to be inferior?

No he doesn't, and you're a gigantic sucker for anti-Mormon rhetoric :\

Once again, ask Nath. He can tell you whether Mormons are taught that non-whites are inferior.


Um, America is to blame for a lot of it's problems. It's not like everything isn't our fault.


Osama Bin Laden is to blame for 9/11. Not America.

[Reaganista]

america is to blame for osama bin laden

[Mr. Ron]

No he doesn't, and you're a gigantic sucker for anti-Mormon rhetoric :\

Once again, ask Nath. He can tell you whether Mormons are taught that non-whites are inferior.



Osama Bin Laden is to blame for 9/11. Not America.

How are you so sure he doesn't? I'm going by actual beliefs they think are true.


I wasn't even referring to 9/11, but if you want to go there...you don't think our involvement in the middle east had anything to do with 9/11?

[Hababi]

How are you so sure he doesn't? I'm going by actual beliefs they think are true.


Actual beliefs...according to people setting out to defame Mormons. Maybe we could get one about what you atheists actually believe.

I wasn't even referring to 9/11, but if you want to go there...you don't think our involvement in the middle east had anything to do with 9/11?

I think that to say anything else other than Osama Bin Laden and those who worked with him and through him to orchestrate 9/11 are solely responsible for that incident is ignorant and wrongheaded.

[Mr. Ron]

Actual beliefs...according to people setting out to defame Mormons. Maybe we could get one about what you atheists actually believe.


I think that to say anything else other than Osama Bin Laden and those who worked with him and through him to orchestrate 9/11 are solely responsible for that incident is ignorant and wrongheaded.

Hell ask me, I'll tell you what I believe.


Well you know, we sort of funded the Taliban and helped Osama in the past to get where he is....but lets not be wrongheaded now!

[Hababi]

Hell ask me, I'll tell you what I believe.


Ok, ask Nath. He'll tell you what he believes. Or the one or two other Mormon MXers.


Well you know, we sort of funded the Taliban and helped Osama in the past to get where he is....but lets not be wrongheaded now!

Dude we didn't fund the Taliban, we aided (indirectly and discreetly) the Muhajadeen when they were fighting the Soviets, which was the right decision at that point. Pick up Ghost Wars by Steven Coll. The Taliban was formed, subsequently, in part by former Muhajadeen fighters.

[Mr. Ron]

Ok, ask Nath. He'll tell you what he believes. Or the one or two other Mormon MXers.



Dude we didn't fund the Taliban, we aided (indirectly and discreetly) the Muhajadeen when they were fighting the Soviets, which was the right decision at that point. Pick up Ghost Wars by Steven Coll. The Taliban was formed, subsequently, in part by former Muhajadeen fighters.

I'm getting at the fact that we funded terrorist groups that were involved in 9/11, so we are partly responsible for them even existing.

[Hababi]

I'm getting at the fact that we funded terrorist groups that were involved in 9/11, so we are partly responsible for them even existing.

No, we did not. You're parsing words. We aided an anti-imperialist group of largely Afghan nationals against a totalitarian invader.

[Mr. Ron]

No, we did not. You're parsing words. We aided an anti-imperialist group of largely Afghan nationals against a totalitarian invader.

Who turned into a group that was responsible for terrorist acts against us...it just so happens that they are fighting a different invader now.

[Reaganista]

largely Afghan nationals against a totalitarian invad

except it happened to be run by a saudi terrorist

but he was a freedom fighter back then so its cool

[Hababi]

Who turned into a group that was responsible for terrorist acts against us...

So? Would you have preferred that we let the Soviet Union steamroll to the Gulf?

it just so happens that they are fighting a different invader now.

No, they subsequently invaded us and attacked us, and now fight against liberation and democracy.

except it happened to be run by a saudi terrorist

Bin Laden was not largely involved in terrorist activities at that point. In fact, he was little more than a medium-scale financier.


but he was a freedom fighter back then so its cool

He was fighting against Soviet imperialism.

[Mr. Ron]

So? Would you have preferred that we let the Soviet Union steamroll to the Gulf?


No, they subsequently invaded us and attacked us, and now fight against liberation and democracy.



Bin Laden was not largely involved in terrorist activities at that point. In fact, he was little more than a medium-scale financier.



He was fighting against Soviet imperialism.


Um, how did they invade us.

And now their fighting against our imperialism, lets not discriminate now, Steve. whether its Russian or US imperialism it matters not.

[Reaganista]

Bin Laden was not largely involved in terrorist activities at that point.
yeah i know he was a freedom fighter he hadnt attacked america yet

[griftadan]

I don't want a politician whose staff put out racist literature anywhere near the White House.

why? he took responsibility for it, got rid of the guy, and obviously is embarrassed by it. what's the real issue?

[Iscariot]

How are you so sure he doesn't? I'm going by actual beliefs they think are true.

my ex-girlfriend was mormon as was her entire family and they definitely did not think blacks and other non-whites were "impure"

where do you get your information from :\

[Mr. Ron]

my ex-girlfriend was mormon as was her entire family and they definitely did not think blacks and other non-whites were "impure"

where do you get your information from :\

The book of Mormon.

[Iscariot]

The Mormon bible.

i really really doubt you've ever read the mormon bible

one of my best friends is mormon and he's fijian definitely not white plz explain that one with your infinite knowledge of the mormon faith

[griftadan]

they believe that the ancestors of natives were punished with dark skin for killing off the nephites or whatever

[Mr. Ron]

i really really doubt you've ever read the mormon bible

one of my best friends is mormon and he's fijian definitely not white plz explain that one with your infinite knowledge of the mormon faith

No actually we had to study the book of Mormon, the Koran and various other religious texts in one of my college classes (Comparative religion), we read a great majority of it. I've spent time outside of classes as well, religion is a hobby of mine. ;^]

I'm not saying om some expert on Mormonism, but they really do believe that dark skin is a punishment.

[Mr. Ron]

they believe that the ancestors of natives were punished with dark skin for killing off the nephites or whatever

Yeah they believed that the lost tribe of Israel were the Native Americans.

[Iscariot]

well i won't make an *** of myself i'll just say that's new on me

i mean i know a lot of mormons like i said and some of them are quite the opposite of white i just don't see how a faith that discriminates against non-whites could be comprised of a culture of people who are entirely non-white along with the rest of the mormon demographic

i'm just going to assume that things like that are about as followed and common as most of the scriptures in the old testament

generalizing that all mormons hate non-whites is a pretty unfair statement to make and this is from someone who really doesn't like mormons :X

[Mr. Ron]

well i won't make an *** of myself i'll just say that's new on me

i mean i know a lot of mormons like i said and some of them are quite the opposite of white i just don't see how a faith that discriminates against non-whites could be comprised of a culture of people who are entirely non-white along with the rest of the mormon demographic

Welcome to humanity, we don't make sense. :p

[Light Fantastic]

And God had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God; I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

But basically it says they are filthy (lazy, mischevious, etc), and then says they shouldn't be discriminated against for it. Blacks are still welcome to God.

So they are inferior but be nice to them :I

Not sure how this is any better than saying what Zero thought Ron Paul did.


No he doesn't, and you're a gigantic sucker for anti-Mormon rhetoric :\
Oh ok, Islamophobe.

[AA-12]

No, that's okay, I understand what you meant.

In response to your rep, i'm hardly welcome here :p I'll see though.

[Akira]

Ron, to be fair you can't really say Mormons believe all of that. Plenty of Christians work on the Sabbath.

You can't forget that most "religious" people pick and chose what they believe, and really only are part of the religion because they were raised so.

It is perfectly possible that Romney, while a Mormon, does not consider non-whites inferior.

[Hababi]

Um, how did they invade us.

And now their fighting against our imperialism, lets not discriminate now, Steve. whether its Russian or US imperialism it matters not.

You need to review your definition of imperialism, because what the US is doing doesn't qualify as imperialism. We're trying to preserve freedom and Democracy. Is that wrong? Why do you side with the enemy? Really, you've gone far off the deep end since falling into Chomskey's idiot rhetoric :\

And you still haven't answered my question. Are you saying we should have allowed the Soviet Union to have reign in Afghanistan and continue their march to the Gulf?

The thing with the hate-America crowd is that no matter what America does, they will always criticize. That's why Chomskey is a complete maggot.


Ron, to be fair you can't really say Mormons believe all of that. Plenty of Christians work on the Sabbath.


And racial superiority is not part of the Mormon doctrine. Furthermore, Joseph Smith ran an integrated church.


Ron, to be fair you can't really say Mormons believe all of that. Plenty of Christians work on the Sabbath.


If he was embarrassed by it then why did he defend it until public outrage grew too great? I don't buy for a second that Paul had no part in that, and that he did not harbor those views. Whether he still does or doesn't is of no matter, the fact that he ever was disqualifies him in my mind from ever being president.

[Light Fantastic]

So having someone work for him that makes a non-hateful racist comment makes Ron Paul certainly one.

But believing in a religion that actually has blacks down as inferior in its scripture doesn't.

[Hababi]

So having someone work for him that makes a non-hateful racist comment makes Ron Paul certainly one.


It's abundantly clear that the views expressed were Paul's and not merely a renegade staffer. It was more than one incident.


But believing in a religion that actually has blacks down as inferior in its scripture doesn't.

Mormon scholars disagree with you.

[Light Fantastic]

Show me how it's abundantly clear. You can't, you are just participating in some pointless smear campaign because you can't contest his point on foreign policy. All you've done is call him stupid when the only thing that seems abundantly clear is that he's completely right. :\

And it's right there in the book, it's irrelevant how they want to interpret it now.

[Hababi]

Show me how it's abundantly clear. You can't, you are just participating in some pointless smear campaign because you can't contest his point on foreign policy. All you've done is call him stupid when the only thing that seems abundantly clear is that he's completely right. :\


Paul publically defended the literature and has penned other racist texts. In 1992 he personally wrote an article claiming that most blacks aren't "decent people". I'm sorry, but if you don't concede that Paul has a racist past, then you are just dense.



And it's right there in the book, it's irrelevant how they want to interpret it now.

Yes, you're more qualified to speak about intent, scope, and context than people who have spent their lives studying the text :rolleyes:

[griftadan]

It's abundantly clear that the views expressed were Paul's and not merely a renegade staffer. It was more than one incident.

there was the actual newsletter and there was the time where he took responsibility for it, if that's what you're talking about. everything else i've read for him (seen in campaign websites, debates, articles for CATO etc..) has contradicted this. it isn't abundantly clear at all, in fact it's quite contradictory.

[Light Fantastic]

Paul publically defended the literature and has penned other racist texts. In 1992 he personally wrote an article claiming that most blacks aren't "decent people". I'm sorry, but if you don't concede that Paul has a racist past, then you are just dense.

And you have said similar (worse) things about Arabs. So are you a racist then?

Also! Thanks for skipping parts you don't want to answer as usual!

Yes, you're more qualified to speak about intent, scope, and context than people who have spent their lives studying the text :rolleyes:

It takes seconds to 'interpret' the passage I posted. It's not contested as far as I know. It's simple to understand, and I don't care how the scholars want to spin it.

[Hababi]

there was the actual newsletter and there was the time where he took responsibility for it, if that's what you're talking about. everything else i've read for him (seen in campaign websites, debates, articles for CATO etc..) has contradicted this. it isn't abundantly clear at all, in fact it's quite contradictory.

The way I see it, since that time he's hidden his racist side. Or maybe he genuinely changed his mind. Either way, that's still part of his past, and so for the same reason I wouldn't want Trent Lott or Robert Byrd president, I wouldn't want Ron Paul president.


And you have said similar (worse) things about Arabs. So are you a racist then?

Also! Thanks for skipping parts you don't want to answer as usual!


:lol: I don't get it, are you admitting that Paul has a racist past or are you dodging it?

[Light Fantastic]

:lol: I don't get it, are you admitting that Paul has a racist past or are you dodging it?
I'm awaiting your evidence.

And dodging -_- you just did it twice in replying to my last two posts.

[lfantwister]

I don't get it, are you admitting that Paul has a racist past or are you dodging it?
It seems sort of immaterial to the presidency if he's not an out-and-out racist. You can suspect anyone of anything but as long as he doesn't pursue policy that infringes on civil rights or advocate those sorts of things it's hard to hold it against him as a presidential candidate. Character is less important than policy

[Hababi]

I'm awaiting your evidence.


Well then once again I'll post it: http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html


Character is less important than policy


His policy is even worse than his character :\

[Light Fantastic]

Yes Zero, I saw this because I read the thread.

This was then posted:

http://thecrossedpond.com/?p=574


So now the onus is on you for further evidence that backs up what you just said to me.


It's abundantly clear that the views expressed were Paul's and not merely a renegade staffer. It was more than one incident.

Your beliefs aren't fact. In many ways. :I

[griftadan]

His policy is even worse than his character :\

cool lets talk about that

so what do you disagree with? foriegn policy? domestic?

[lfantwister]

domestic?
he's a commie, remember?
(zero, not paul)

[griftadan]

populists are ub3r l4m3

[Hababi]

cool lets talk about that

so what do you disagree with? foriegn policy? domestic?

Well, starting with his foreign policy, he supports withdrawal (surrender) from Iraq now, and that is a horrendous move that would result in severe repercussion.

Privatizing social security has failed everywhere it's been tried, and removes security from the equation.

Paul opposes funding stem cell research, which will retard the exploration of potentially life-saving technology.

He's consistently voted against minimum wage increases.

He hasn't been environmentally friendly. To my knowledge, he doesn't support measures to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

He opposes immigration reform which would lead to getting millions of undocumented workers on the books.

[griftadan]

Well, starting with his foreign policy, he supports withdrawal (surrender) from Iraq now, and that is a horrendous move that would result in severe repercussion.

and just how long will we have to stay to avoid these "severe repercussions"

Privatizing social security has failed everywhere it's been tried, and removes security from the equation.

where? also i'd like failure to be defined, and if keeping it the way it is is supposed to be "success", than i'd rather fail.

Paul opposes funding stem cell research, which will retard the exploration of potentially life-saving technology.

i don't see why subsidation is necessary, the profit motive for research is ample.

He's consistently voted against minimum wage increases.

good

He hasn't been environmentally friendly. To my knowledge, he doesn't support measures to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

fair enough

He opposes immigration reform which would lead to getting millions of undocumented workers on the books.

not true. he's fine with reform as long as the borders are secure first, which is the first that has to be done.

[gregulus]

i don't see why subsidation is necessary, the profit motive for research is ample.


you obviously fail to realize how important federal funding for biomedical research is. private organizations only go so far.

[Hababi]

and just how long will we have to stay to avoid these "severe repercussions"

Until it is the judgment of the military planners on the ground and bipartisan review boards that Iraq is an unredeemable failure and the only option is to pull out. But it won't come to that.


where? also i'd like failure to be defined, and if keeping it the way it is is supposed to be "success", than i'd rather fail.


I think Chile was one country; I think there have been others though admittedly my knowledge on this matter is a bit sketchy.


i don't see why subsidation is necessary, the profit motive for research is ample.

The government can invest much more, much more readily than private business. So why not do it? We're talking about saving lives here.



good


That resulted in fairly stagnant wages for the poorest 10% over the past 25 years. If the minimum wage doesn't rise as inflation rises, people fall behind.




not true. he's fine with reform as long as the borders are secure first, which is the first that has to be done.

A lot of people say that, but it's a cop out. Why does that need to be done first? Why not support the sensible compromise that's in Congress?

[Akira]

Zero, are you feeling okay? A lot of that post seemed so intelligent.

[Hababi]

Zero, are you feeling okay? A lot of that post seemed so intelligent.

You mean that a lot of that happens to agree with you ;) :p Which means that you're getting smarter :D

[Mr. Ron]

You need to review your definition of imperialism, because what the US is doing doesn't qualify as imperialism. We're trying to preserve freedom and Democracy. Is that wrong? Why do you side with the enemy? Really, you've gone far off the deep end since falling into Chomskey's idiot rhetoric :\

And you still haven't answered my question. Are you saying we should have allowed the Soviet Union to have reign in Afghanistan and continue their march to the Gulf?

The thing with the hate-America crowd is that no matter what America does, they will always criticize. That's why Chomskey is a complete maggot.



And racial superiority is not part of the Mormon doctrine. Furthermore, Joseph Smith ran an integrated church.



If he was embarrassed by it then why did he defend it until public outrage grew too great? I don't buy for a second that Paul had no part in that, and that he did not harbor those views. Whether he still does or doesn't is of no matter, the fact that he ever was disqualifies him in my mind from ever being president.

Um, we invaded a sovereign nation, and set up a government that we pretty much manipulate and we're forcing our way of life on them. If that isn't imperialism I would like to hear your definition.

If it got to the point where is DIRECTLY threatened us, then we should have done something about the soviet Union. Too bad they never really did threaten us by that time.

I don't hate America, FYI. I love America, thats why I criticize it. It just so happens that a lot of what the US does now a days is greatly hurting us internationally. I'm pretty Sure Chomsky knows what he's talking about more than you Steve.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, starting with his foreign policy, he supports withdrawal (surrender) from Iraq now, and that is a horrendous move that would result in severe repercussion.

Privatizing social security has failed everywhere it's been tried, and removes security from the equation.

Paul opposes funding stem cell research, which will retard the exploration of potentially life-saving technology.

He's consistently voted against minimum wage increases.

He hasn't been environmentally friendly. To my knowledge, he doesn't support measures to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

He opposes immigration reform which would lead to getting millions of undocumented workers on the books.
Withdrawal isn't surrender.

[Krabsworth]

Actually it pretty much is...but that doesn't matter. We are causing worse problems over there, and we need to find a way out, so let me put it into terms Serenity will understand, by quoting a country song.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.

[Hababi]

Um, we invaded a sovereign nation, and set up a government that we pretty much manipulate and we're forcing our way of life on them. If that isn't imperialism I would like to hear your definition.


No, they chose their government democratically.


If it got to the point where is DIRECTLY threatened us, then we should have done something about the soviet Union. Too bad they never really did threaten us by that time.


And you're saying the Soviet Union gaining control over much of the world's oil was NOT a threat?

I'm pretty Sure Chomsky knows what he's talking about more than you Steve.

Chomsky knows linguistics better than I do. But his political polemics are jokes outside loony tune land. They're paranoid, factually errant screeds. He keeps the company of fellow extremists and antisemites.

[Krabsworth]

his political polemics are jokes outside loony tune land. They're paranoid, factually errant screeds.

i totally know someone else just like this

[Hababi]

i totally know someone else just like this

My political compass score says otherwise :p

[lunchforthesky]

Chomsky knows linguistics better than I do. But his political polemics are jokes outside loony tune land. They're paranoid, factually errant screeds. He keeps the company of fellow extremists and antisemites.

Must you constantly invalidate any point you may or may not have by constantly claiming nearly all lefties are raging anti-semites?

[Hababi]

Must you constantly invalidate any point you may or may not have by constantly claiming nearly all lefties are raging anti-semites?

Chomsky is. As are his compadres such as Norman Finklestein.

[Mr. Ron]

No, they chose their government democratically.



And you're saying the Soviet Union gaining control over much of the world's oil was NOT a threat?


Chomsky knows linguistics better than I do. But his political polemics are jokes outside loony tune land. They're paranoid, factually errant screeds. He keeps the company of fellow extremists and antisemites.
Yeah us pushing candidates that are friendly to us purposely is really democratic.


Seeing as how they were basically falling apart all over the place they weren't a real threat.


Steve you calling someone a loony toon is pure hypocrisy, seeing as you're a complete islamiphobe.

[Mr. Ron]

My political compass score says otherwise :p

LOL the political compass is hardly accurate.

[Krabsworth]

Chomsky and Finkelstein are both Jewish though.

You are the anti semite for not respecting the opinion of these Jews and calling them loony toons

[lunchforthesky]

Chomsky is. As are his compadres such as Norman Finklestein.

Even Finklestein isn't he is just very very anti-Israel which does not make someone anti-semetic anymore than being anti-america makes you anti-christian.

[Hababi]

Yeah us pushing candidates that are friendly to us purposely is really democratic.


The people chose the government, not us.



Seeing as how they were basically falling apart all over the place they weren't a real threat.


So, we should've let them gain control over the Gulf region?



Steve you calling someone a loony toon is pure hypocrisy, seeing as you're a complete islamiphobe.

Not really, and this is an accusation from someone who is clearly bigoted against Mormons.

Chomsky and Finkelstein are both Jewish though.

So is Bobby Fischer. Still antisemetic.


Even Finklestein isn't he is just very very anti-Israel which does not make someone anti-semetic anymore than being anti-america makes you anti-christian.


Sorry but he is textbook antisemetic and it's plainly obvious.

[Mr. Ron]

Guys, if someone doesn't get down on their knees and suck a jew off Steve thinks they're an anti-Semite so its not worth arguing with him over it.

[lunchforthesky]

Zero really just needs to convert.

[Mr. Ron]

The people chose the government, not us.




So, we should've let them gain control over the Gulf region?




Not really, and this is an accusation from someone who is clearly bigoted against Mormons.



So is Bobby Fischer. Still antisemetic.

They wouldn't have control over it, since they pretty much collapsed and lost most of their former territories.


Yeah steve you got me, I hate those Mormons! :rolleyes:

[Krabsworth]

I've not heard what Bobby Fisher has said, but I have read some Noam Chomsky and he has never gone off saying,"**** THOSE GODDAMN JEWS FOR ****ING WIPING THEIR JEW GREASE ON MY ARABIA"

He dislikes Israel.

[Hababi]

They wouldn't have control over it, since they pretty much collapsed and lost most of their former territories.

The collapse was years away and had they gained the Gulf, it would've been averted. And Chomsky would've cheered.


Yeah steve you got me, I hate those Mormons! :rolleyes:

Oh ok you don't hate them, you just think they're all racists.

[lunchforthesky]

I've not heard what Bobby Fisher has said, but I have read some Noam Chomsky and he has never gone off saying,"**** THOSE GODDAMN JEWS FOR ****ING WIPING THEIR JEW GREASE ON MY ARABIA"

He dislikes Israel.

Zero doesnt understand there is a different between Chomsky disliking Israeli foreign policy and Hitler warming up those gas chambers.

[Mr. Ron]

The collapse was years away and had they gained the Gulf, it would've been averted. And Chomsky would've cheered.



Oh ok you don't hate them, you just think they're all racists.

I didn't say all of them were racist, I said their religion encompasses racism and its likely that some hold racist views because of it.

[Hababi]

I've not heard what Bobby Fisher has said, but I have read some Noam Chomsky and he has never gone off saying,"**** THOSE GODDAMN JEWS FOR ****ING WIPING THEIR JEW GREASE ON MY ARABIA"

He dislikes Israel.

He thinks that antisemitism is a myth put out by powerful Jews so they can gain total control over the world. He constantly compares Israel to Nazi Germany. He spreads falsehoods about Israel, and supports blatantly antisemetic authors.

And this is beyond his support of the Khmar Rouge and basically every other totalitarian state in the last 40 years. If you believe Chomsky's crap, you are a bigger tool than anyone who likes Ann Coulter.

[lunchforthesky]

He thinks that antisemitism is a myth put out by powerful Jews so they can gain total control over the world. He constantly compares Israel to Nazi Germany. He spreads falsehoods about Israel, and supports blatantly antisemetic authors.

And this is beyond his support of the Khmar Rouge and basically every other totalitarian state in the last 40 years. If you believe Chomsky's crap, you are a bigger tool than anyone who likes Ann Coulter.

He only breifly supported the Khymer Rouge when it was not clear to the outside world quite what was going on. A lot of conservatives did the same for Hitler before they realised quite what he was.

[Mr. Ron]

Steve you seem to think that mere criticism of anything that has to do with Israel or jews is somehow radical.

[Hababi]

He only breifly supported the Khymer Rouge when it was not clear to the outside world quite what was going on. A lot of conservatives did the same for Hitler before they realised quite what he was.

It was abundantly clear and he worked as a propaganda merchant trying to HIDE the truth about the Khmar Rouge. And no, you'll find no such conservative Hitler defender.

[lunchforthesky]

It was abundantly clear and he worked as a propaganda merchant trying to HIDE the truth about the Khmar Rouge. And no, you'll find no such conservative Hitler defender.

There are plenty of people who were sympathetic to Hitler and wanted us to conciliate with him. Jerry Falwell was anti civil rights. Plenty people make miss judgements on things, Chomsky has admitted this and he did not attempt to cover up what Pol Pot was doing.

[Dr Hooch]

Yes, you're more qualified to speak about intent, scope, and context than people who have spent their lives studying the text :rolleyes:

Weird how not many buddhists dedicate their lives to studying the book of mormon

OMGBIASWTFhax

[Hababi]

There are plenty of people who were sympathetic to Hitler and wanted us to conciliate with him.


Name some. Prominent conservatives.

Jerry Falwell was anti civil rights.


Yeah he was. By the time he got big though he had moved away from that stance and had made amends for it. Chomsky was popular with the same people when he was a propaganda merchant for one of the worst tyrants ever, and has never apologized for his lies.

[Mr. Ron]

Name some. Prominent conservatives.


Yeah he was. By the time he got big though he had moved away from that stance and had made amends for it. Chomsky was popular with the same people when he was a propaganda merchant for one of the worst tyrants ever, and has never apologized for his lies.

When Hitler was gaining power in the 30's we actually publically supported him as a "middle man" between the two parties in Germany.

[lunchforthesky]

Name some. Prominent conservatives.

I can name plenty British ones.


Yeah he was. By the time he got big though he had moved away from that stance and had made amends for it. Chomsky was popular with the same people when he was a propaganda merchant for one of the worst tyrants ever, and has never apologized for his lies.

One of his books i have includes an apology...

[Hababi]

I can name plenty British ones.


I don't care about Brits. Americans.


One of his books i have includes an apology...

I think he continued to contort his record on it. And unlike Falwell, he was really prominent when he was lying about the Khmar Rouge. And that's not getting into his litany of other lies and despicable positions.

[Independent_CA]

I think EXACTLY like this man...EXACTLY.

[lunchforthesky]

I don't care about Brits. Americans.


Well i dont care about Americans.

[Mr. Ron]

Well i dont care about Americans.

</3

[lunchforthesky]

Ron is cool, he can be an honourary European.

[Mr. Ron]

Nice, I might be moving to Denmark if things go right. :chug:

[lunchforthesky]

Scandinavia would be my ideal place to live. Shame its not a little warmer.

[Hababi]

Well i dont care about Americans.

You were trying to make a point about American conservatives but failed, because you were talking out of your butt. Just confess it :smash:

Nice, I might be moving to Denmark if things go right. :chug:

:lol: Good ol' xenophobic Denmark, home of not-so-guilty white liberals. Denmark does little for the world. Oh yeah and housing is mad expensive.


Scandinavia would be my ideal place to live. Shame its not a little warmer.


Yuck.

I might move to South America if I go through with the linguistics and international business plan. Obv not Venezuela, though.

[Mr. Ron]

You were trying to make a point about American conservatives but failed, because you were talking out of your butt. Just confess it :smash:



:lol: Good ol' xenophobic Denmark, home of not-so-guilty white liberals. Denmark does little for the world. Oh yeah and housing is mad expensive.



Yuck.

I might move to South America if I go through with the linguistics and international business plan. Obv not Venezuela, though.
Steve its ok I'll just be relaxing in a non-retarded country with Euro women while you can stay here and not ever get laid. :)

[Hababi]

Steve its ok I'll just be relaxing in a non-retarded country with Euro women while you can stay here and not ever get laid. :)

Enjoy one of the child p0rn capitals of the world :smash:

[Mr. Ron]

Enjoy one of the child p0rn capitals of the world :smash:

Enjoy not ever seeing a vagina. :smash:

[lunchforthesky]

You were trying to make a point about American conservatives but failed, because you were talking out of your butt. Just confess it :smash:

No you being American you assumed i was talking about America when actually i was referring to global conservatism.

[lunchforthesky]

Enjoy not ever seeing a vagina. :smash:

That's what God wants..

[Hababi]

Enjoy not ever seeing a vagina. :smash:

Enjoy seeing lots of 9 year olds' :evil:

No you being American you assumed i was talking about America when actually i was referring to global conservatism.

The term 'global conservatism' is silly.

[lunchforthesky]

The term 'global conservatism' is silly.

So is thinking that America = the world :smash:

[griftadan]

Until it is the judgment of the military planners on the ground and bipartisan review boards that Iraq is an unredeemable failure and the only option is to pull out. But it won't come to that.

so basically, not anytime soon in the foreseeable future. meanwhile, as we didn't have an actual decleration of war, political pressures will make our efforts futile. there is no point in staying.

I think Chile was one country; I think there have been others though admittedly my knowledge on this matter is a bit sketchy.

chile also probably has the most modernized economy in all of latin america. either way it'd be better to focus on it's effect here, not less advanced countries. the fact is that the system is going to be a drain on our nation for as long as we can see in the future, something has to be done. paul doesn't support what bush wanted, he wants to get rid of the whole thing all together.

The government can invest much more, much more readily than private business. So why not do it? We're talking about saving lives here.

because were already running budget defecits and government subsidizing often times wastes recources because of centralized bureacracy, something that individual investors can avoid. they are also seperated from political attitudes, something the federal government would struggle with

That resulted in fairly stagnant wages for the poorest 10% over the past 25 years. If the minimum wage doesn't rise as inflation rises, people fall behind.

wages have stagnated more because of foriegn competition that anything else, anyways the most recentminimum wage hike only effected about 3-4% of the work force and probably would have resulted in higher unemployment and lowered output. minimum wage isn't the best way at all to try to improve living standards.

A lot of people say that, but it's a cop out. Why does that need to be done first? Why not support the sensible compromise that's in Congress?

because part of the reform has to be making legal immigration more desirable than illegal immigration, and part of that is making it harder to get in illegally, ie a secure border. i disagree with paul on the issue of amnesty, but that's not really enough to make me not support him.

Ron is cool, he can be an honourary European.

i don't think he wants in the club :/

[Hababi]

So is thinking that America = the world :smash:

Oh no, it isn't that America=the world. It's that America>most all the rest of the world :p

PS Ron what do you plan on doing to be even allowed in to Denmark, let alone make enough money to live there?

[Mr. Ron]

Oh no, it isn't that America=the world. It's that America>most all the rest of the world :p

PS Ron what do you plan on doing to be even allowed in to Denmark, let alone make enough money to live there?

LUNY TOON

[lunchforthesky]

Oh no, it isn't that America=the world. It's that America>most all the rest of the world :p

PS Ron what do you plan on doing to be even allowed in to Denmark, let alone make enough money to live there?

Western Europe = Australia & NZ = Canada > America > Eastern Europe > Developing Nations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any Theocracies, or strong religious countries, Africa and any countries with war taking place.

[Mr. Ron]

Oh no, it isn't that America=the world. It's that America>most all the rest of the world :p

PS Ron what do you plan on doing to be even allowed in to Denmark, let alone make enough money to live there?
Yeah, thats why America is one of the most obese and stupid countries on this planet.



I have friends over there on study abroad programs and they say it's amazing, I might visit there soon too. Nothing is in concrete though. Plus I love how you're assuming I'm going there for illegal activities, it kind of shows your intelligence.

[Dr Hooch]

I live in the UK so i can move to denmark whenever i want if i want!

Ron if you're low on $$$ go to eastern europe

take shiny american dollars

enjoy

[Mr. Ron]

I live in the UK so i can move to denmark whenever i want if i want!

Ron if you're low on $$$ go to eastern europe

take shiny american dollars

enjoy
Not too keen on eastern Europe. But I do have enough scratch.

[Hababi]

so basically, not anytime soon in the foreseeable future.


Probably not.


meanwhile, as we didn't have an actual decleration of war, political pressures will make our efforts futile. there is no point in staying.


What difference would a declaration of war make? It's a formality that hasn't been issued since WW2.


chile also probably has the most modernized economy in all of latin america.


I think that's because of some of Pinochet's other policies, not the social security one.


either way it'd be better to focus on it's effect here, not less advanced countries. the fact is that the system is going to be a drain on our nation for as long as we can see in the future, something has to be done. paul doesn't support what bush wanted, he wants to get rid of the whole thing all together.


That's even worse, though. If you eliminate social security, poverty amongst the elderly will skyrocket. Check the poverty rates amongst the elderly in the 20th century--they dwindled after the inception of social security.

We absolutely need to do something about social security, but I don't see how ending it makes sense. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Raise the retirement age, increase the tax some, etc.

[QUPTE]
because were already running budget defecits and government subsidizing often times wastes recources because of centralized bureacracy, something that individual investors can avoid. they are also seperated from political attitudes, something the federal government would struggle with
[/QUOTE]

The problem is that most people don't operate with enough money to make individual investment worthwhile. They can't diversify, and thus if their stock goes under, they're screwed. There's no security in that, and that's what we're trying to give them. Not to mention the fees they'd have to pay to the stock brokers. Privitization would possibly work for white collar and above workers, but not beneath that.


wages have stagnated more because of foriegn competition that anything else, anyways the most recentminimum wage hike only effected about 3-4% of the work force and probably would have resulted in higher unemployment and lowered output. minimum wage isn't the best way at all to try to improve living standards.


It won't only affect them; other lower wages will rise, too. IE someone previously making $6 an hour will end up seeing their pay go up to $7, etc. The states with higher minimum wages (Oregon, Washington, California, etc.) have good economies, and haven't been hurt by the wage laws. The states with lower minimum wages, on the other hand, are amongst the poorer states. Mississippi, Alabama, etc.

$5.15 was just absurdly low. When the minimum wage bill was first passed it was intended to be a living wage. If that would've been inflation adjusted, it'dbe at $9+ today.


because part of the reform has to be making legal immigration more desirable than illegal immigration, and part of that is making it harder to get in illegally, ie a secure border.

What about making it easier to get in legally? ;) Look, you can't defend every inch of the border, it just ain't gonna happen. If you make it easier for people to come into this country to work, you'll have a much easier time then turning your sights to stopping the drug runners, border gangs etc.

[Hababi]

Western Europe = Australia & NZ = Canada > America > Eastern Europe > Developing Nations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any Theocracies, or strong religious countries, Africa and any countries with war taking place.

Ewww yuck none of those countries comes close to the cultural output of America, except maybe Great Britain. Canada has basically no film industry and not much good music, either; for that matter, few significant authors. And their weather sucks.

Yeah, thats why America is one of the most obese and stupid countries on this planet.

:lol: I hope that's intended to be a self parody :\



I have friends over there on study abroad programs and they say it's amazing, I might visit there soon too. Nothing is in concrete though. [/QUOTE]

Ummmm dude studying abroad doesn't = getting in to live. What are you going to be studying? 'Cause unless it's something very well paying, kiss pussyland goodbye, in terms of long term occupancy.


I live in the UK so i can move to denmark whenever i want if i want!

Ron if you're low on $$$ go to eastern europe

take shiny american dollars

enjoy

Enjoy Borat's homeland!

[lunchforthesky]

Ewww yuck none of those countries comes close to the cultural output of America, except maybe Great Britain. Canada has basically no film industry and not much good music, either; for that matter, few significant authors. And their weather sucks.

This is places you would want to live. Not contributions to the worlds current social arena.

[Hababi]

This is places you would want to live. Not contributions to the worlds current social arena.

Literature contributes less to the social arena than it does reflect it. Same with other art forms, too. And America pwns the rest of the world in all of them.

[Dr Hooch]

Ewww yuck none of those countries comes close to the cultural output of America, except maybe Great Britain. Canada has basically no film industry and not much good music, either; for that matter, few significant authors. And their weather sucks.

me & andy says not


www.cstrecords.com


Enjoy Borat's homeland!

Nothing likethat i don't think

morelike, alchoholics absolutelyeveryoneis

[lunchforthesky]

Literature contributes less to the social arena than it does reflect it. Same with other art forms, too. And America pwns the rest of the world in all of them.

American TV is hideously bad.
Books are okay but no better than UK.
Music (see above)

I dont care about other art forms.

[Hababi]

Nothing likethat i don't think

morelike, alchoholics absolutelyeveryoneis

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/061012/14179__borat_home_l.jpg :D

Plus the languages suck and there are too many of them :\

The only non totally crappy one is Romanian but yeah...

Poland is the only non super expensive European country worth living in.

[Akira]

Literature contributes less to the social arena than it does reflect it. Same with other art forms, too. And America pwns the rest of the world in all of them.

Lmao.

Are you serious? Not to knock American media, but come on.

[Hababi]

American TV is hideously bad.

A lot of what gets filtered around the globe is but even our really crappy tv is usually better than other tv. Consider this: many of the most successful shows elsewhere in the world are knockoffs of America's crappy shows. The Apprentice, Survivor, American Idol (yeah I know these last two didn't start in America but they got big because of the American versions).

You won't find a better tv show in the world than House. The best American shows>the best anywhere else, except possibly Britain.

Books are okay but no better than UK.

The US had a better 20th century.

Music (see above)


Maybe back in the 60's and 70's :\

I dont care about other art forms.

That's because we pwn you in them :evil:

[peeted]

I cannot believe that this has turned into a "my country's better than yours" discussion, who gives a ****. The U.S.A and the UK have a large cultural influence, but a negative one, its nothing to be proud of.

[Akira]

I cannot believe that this has turned into a "my country's better than yours" discussion, who gives a ****. The U.S.A and the UK have a large cultural influence, but a negative one, its nothing to be proud of.

What's even better is that it is "My country is better than yours assume we look only at the past few decades and completely ignore everything else."

[griftadan]

ok yeah i'm not sure if i want to debate all of the nations most pressing issues in one thread, it wouldn't really do them justice

[Hababi]

What's even better is that it is "My country is better than yours assume we look only at the past few decades and completely ignore everything else."


Quit living in the past:smash:

[Interviewer/surveyer]

My, that sounds a lot like that guy on YouTube.

You're saying nothing Americans ever did over there was deserving of 9/11. Sorry to burst your bubble but obviously some thought otherwise. Stop with your pro-American arrogance of deciding nothing was deserving 9/11 but keeping the silence of how Americans are ****ing up Iraq

And most Americans approved of the Iraq war as it was launched, but it took years of revealed lies, billions of dollars engulfed in the conflict and a lousy president at the head of it all to make them realise Iraq was a blundering mess. It's crap to say Americans disapprove of the Iraq war without specifying the number of years it took them as a population to start and reject it.

what the hell are you talking about with my "pro-American" arrogance, you ****ing idiot. We're wrong to be over there, thats saying that America is wrong. Yes, it is a waste of LIFE, TIME, AND MONEY to be over there.

How am I being "Silent" about our wrongdoings in Iraq, didn't you read my post, where I said I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE THERE?

I love my country, America is a great place to live, and there are other great places to live in the world, but we are ****ing up BIG time by being over there, I said that already, don't call me arrogant without reading my whole post.

[italic zero]

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/061012/14179__borat_home_l.jpg :D

Plus the languages suck and there are too many of them :\

The only non totally crappy one is Romanian but yeah...

Poland is the only non super expensive European country worth living in.
job market isn't very good though

[Interviewer/surveyer]

hm yeah you just caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people using sanctions for no reason

not that the people who died on 9/11 deserved it, but really if you want an eye for an eye then it wasnt even much in comparison

9/11 isnt this huge event you are making it out to be.. you say it like it was the greatest tragedy you've ever known ._.


also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYkr435zPHU

and this is what his pr people want you to see so :Iare you seriously saying 9/11 was a just cause? That the 3,000 lives should have been taken?

yeah, there are much bigger trageties(mind block, forgot how to spell) are events around the world that have caused more loss of life than 9/11, but 9/11 is still a BIG deal.

I can't believe I'm trying to argue with people that are saying 9/11 was right.

You can name hundreds of things my country has done wrong, and I'll agree with you completely. I disagree with the Iraqi war completely, I already stated this, I don't think we should be over there, and it scares me that things are that far out of wack.

Seriously, nothing we did made us deserving of 9/11. If you want to think "eye for an eye", than we can go back in time and pick out things that every country has done that has ended up killing numerous people, and then we can bomb an equal amount of people in that country to make up for it.

[Mr. Ron]

Our foreign policy definitely has to do with them attacking us though.

[Smokey D]

Western Europe = Australia & NZ = Canada > America > Eastern Europe > Developing Nations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any Theocracies, or strong religious countries, Africa and any countries with war taking place.

I can pretty much guaruntee you haven't been to anywhere near enough of those countries to make a claim like that.

New York is almost undoubtedly a cooler place to live than anywhere in NZ.

[Reaganista]

philadelphia is the murder capital of the US so far this year it's like living in a low-grade civil war

[Light Fantastic]

are you seriously saying 9/11 was a just cause? That the 3,000 lives should have been taken?
Can you read?

not that the people who died on 9/11 deserved it

yeah, there are much bigger trageties(mind block, forgot how to spell) are events around the world that have caused more loss of life than 9/11, but 9/11 is still a BIG deal.Why is 9/11 a big deal? Moreover, why don't you care so much about the other events. All human life is equal, right? Or do you contest that? Many times more people (children, actually) die in Africa each day.. and you know what? You still give more aid to Israel.

Oh and I suppose you don't care so much about those atrocities either. Don't care about its ethnic cleansing, or all the refugees it kicked out of their homes and country (4 million), all the civilians it has killed (more than 9/11), the hundreds of thousands of innocent prisoners it keeps (many of them children), its extrajudicial executions, torture etc

And well kind of went of on a tangent here - but as a country this is what you actively support, or at least ignore. The persecution of millions of people, that still continues daily. These refugees still have no right of return. Or anywhere to return to, seeing as Israel destroyed all their homes and built settlements on them. Israel is still recklessly bombing civilian residential areas... in fact actively targeting civilian infrastructure. Every day people in occupied territories live under oppression, apartheid. And you still support them, unconditionally. You are the only nation that does support Israeli policy.

You don't think those people might be really pissed of about that? You really can't see why 9/11 might have happened? And this is just one thing in your foreign policy. :\

I can't believe I'm trying to argue with people that are saying 9/11 was right. So don't then. If you don't want to be contested don't post here.


Seriously, nothing we did made us deserving of 9/11. If you want to think "eye for an eye", than we can go back in time and pick out things that every country has done that has ended up killing numerous people, and then we can bomb an equal amount of people in that country to make up for it.
So you're saying.. 'It's ok that we did these things, because everyone else does them too.'

Well, no, it's not. And you have done a disproportionate number of them to any other nation.

[Knifeboy]

PS Ron what do you plan on doing to be even allowed in to Denmark, let alone make enough money to live there?

Getting into denmark is easy if you're an american
And as far as making enough money to live here? Every job makes enough money to live here, that's the whole idea behind socialism you nut. And right now, getting a job is easier than ever.
Unskilled temp work makes you 20 bucks an hour, even when the price differences, and living costs are factored in, that's still about 3 times as much as the highest minimum wages in america..
And fyi, living here isn't really as expensive as you seem to believe, as long as you're renting an apartment, and not buying a house. (And I really doubt Ron would come here and buy a house :P)


Plus, according to most americans I've met, our candy is delicious compared to that sugary **** you get in america!

[Give me Beer]

Literature contributes less to the social arena than it does reflect it. Same with other art forms, too. And America pwns the rest of the world in all of them.

No it doesn't dumbass. You probably don't even KNOW any of our cultural output since it's in a language you don't understand ('cause lets face it, Americans are linguistically retarded ;)) and it's not marketed in the USA.

Most of the good movies I've seen the last few years were European and Asian productions by the way. :0

Oh, and LFMAO at you saying everybody rips American shows, then name 3 shows, ADMIT that two of 'm aren't really American to begin with, and then claim they got big because of the USA. :lol: Not that it matters since those shows suck.

[lunchforthesky]

I can pretty much guaruntee you haven't been to anywhere near enough of those countries to make a claim like that.

New York is almost undoubtedly a cooler place to live than anywhere in NZ.

Well i've been to both and i'd rather live in New Zealand.

Who says that the "cooler" place to live is where i'd rather live.

[Smokey D]

Where in NZ?

[lunchforthesky]

My friend lives in Tuaranga. So i've been there a few times.

[Smokey D]

Ew Tauranga's like the most boring place in NZ. It's our retirement capital.

Anyway, my main point was that you can't treat countries/regions as big as the US or Europe as homogenous. New York is clearly very different to Dallas which is clearly different to some Apalachian village. Auckland is very different to Wellington is different to Tauranga is different to Whangarei.

[Iskandar]

Canada has basically no film industry and not much good music, either; for that matter, few significant authors.That's the direct fault of American cultural imperialism. We can't compete against 300 million people and Hollywood, so our culture is basically the same as yours.

[peeted]

Canada does have trailer park boys...that has to count for something.

[Hababi]

No it doesn't dumbass. You probably don't even KNOW any of our cultural output since it's in a language you don't understand ('cause lets face it, Americans are linguistically retarded ;)) and it's not marketed in the USA.

I'm actually pretty versed in Belgian cinema :cool:



Most of the good movies I've seen the last few years were European and Asian productions by the way. :0


That says that you're not watching very many American films. Most of the significant directors of the past 30 years have been American. Woody Allen, Spielberg, Clint Eastwood, Scorsese, Alexander Payne, Robert Altman (though I think he sucked), Steven Soderbergh, Spike Lee, Terrence Malick, the Coen brothers, Tarantino, Coppola, etc.

When it comes to significant directors, there are probably about as many in the rest of the world combined, maybe a few more, as America. For every Dardenne and Bergman, there is an Allan and Scorsese.


Oh, and LFMAO at you saying everybody rips American shows, then name 3 shows, ADMIT that two of 'm aren't really American to begin with, and then claim they got big because of the USA. :lol: Not that it matters since those shows suck.

The shows got big because of the American productions of them, so it's the same thing.

That's the direct fault of American cultural imperialism. We can't compete against 300 million people and Hollywood, so our culture is basically the same as yours.

Britain competes pretty well and they only have 1/5 the population of America. Spain has less than that and still competes better than Canada. Heck, Belgium has 1/3 the population but a better track record with cinema, as far as I can tell.

The only excellent Canadian film I can remember is The Barbarian Invasion. How many great Canadian authors are there? :\

[Give me Beer]

I'm actually pretty versed in Belgian cinema :cool:

That says that you're not watching very many American films. Most of the significant directors of the past 30 years have been American. Woody Allen, Spielberg, Clint Eastwood, Scorsese, Alexander Payne, Robert Altman (though I think he sucked), Steven Soderbergh, Spike Lee, Terrence Malick, the Coen brothers, Tarantino, Coppola, etc.

When it comes to significant directors, there are probably about as many in the rest of the world combined, maybe a few more, as America. For every Dardenne and Bergman, there is an Allan and Scorsese.

I wasn't really talking about cinema though, that was just a little side-point. I would like to point out that Belgium has a population of 10 million versus 300 million Americans? Obviously there are going to be more American directors than Belgian directors that make it big, it'd be mighty strange if there weren't. However, if we were to count the entire of Europe then I think it might even out a little more, and that's just cinema, in which Europe does not have a real tradition like Hollywood, I might point out.

In literature Western Europe pwns the USA, no question, if you really want to be chauvenistic about it. Ever even read any Louis-Paul Boon or Houellebecq? -_-


The shows got big because of the American productions of them, so it's the same thing.

How do you know that? Any proof that they got big "because" of the American productions? Either way, it doesn't really matter since they can hardly be called cultural. Anybody with half a brain thinks the idea is stupid. We've got a few of those shows of our own which got pioneered here ... and I'm not proud of it at all. I definitely wouldn't rate them under our "cultural" output.

[Surtr]

I've never had something related to this topic before, but about a year ago, I was talking to these 5 people I know (Friends I 'spose?) and they some how didn't know that Egypt had cities and wasn't just all desert, sand and pyramids. They actually totally didn't believe me when I told them that it wasn't at ALL like they thought.

[Mr. Ron]

I've never had something related to this topic before, but about a year ago, I was talking to these 5 people I know (Friends I 'spose?) and they some how didn't know that Egypt had cities and wasn't just all desert, sand and pyramids. They actually totally didn't believe me when I told them that it wasn't at ALL like they thought.

Thats pretty sad.

[Knifeboy]

fun fact:
Denmark was the leading country when it came to cinema in the 1930ies

[Give me Beer]

I should probably add that I don't think any countries cultural output can be said to be far above that of the rest.

Also, on that note, does it really matter for Serenity? I doubt he moves in any of the circles that generate this cultural content, so does it matter if he follows it from the USA or from Denmark?