I have a few audio interface questions

[Jon]

1) Presonus Inspire 1394 vs. Line 6 Toneport UX2 vs. M Audio Fast track Pro.

They all seem to be the same basic thing. I basically just want two inputs, phantom power, both Hi-Z & Mic inputs on both channels (I'm getting a nice new amp, so I'd like to be able to record vox + amp, but maybe somedays I'd want to just do vox + DI, so thats why I don't want a Firewire Solo) and for it to work nicely. Which should I get?

2) Is it true that ALL USB devices only do a stereo send to the sequencer? I know this is true of Alesis mixers, but I'm not sure if it is true of the Line 6 or M Audio.

3) You know how you can link together Inspires, Fireboxes and Firepods? Can you link, say, an Inspire and a Firepod together? I want a Firepod eventually, but not for a while, and when I get it I wouldn't want to throw away whatever I have now, so if you could just daisy chain an Inspire and a Firepod it would be awesome.

4) Do you use condensers for miking amps? I was looking at an MXL 990/991 or 993 package. £100. Just the 990 is £80, but that comes with a shockmount which you don't get in the kit. But I noticed on the MF pages it was saying the 991 and 993 are good for acoustic guitars & drum overheads but didn't mention amps. Hmmmm. Basically can you recommend two mics for under £150, preferably more like £100. I was thinking a SM57/PG57/Beta 57 and MXL 990?

[The Chemist]

I'll dispel a myth: USB sends more than just a stereo pair. It can send up to 8 Mono Tracks.

[Moseph]

I'll dispel a myth: USB sends more than just a stereo pair. It can send up to 8 Mono Tracks.

You can't really talk about how many tracks you're capable of transmitting without discussing the sample rate and bit depth of the audio that's being streamed.

USB 1.1 can handle a theoretical maximum of 12 Mbps (that's Megabits, not Megabytes).

CD-quality audio (16 bit, 44.1 kHz) requires (44.1kHz * 16 bits * 2 channels) = 1411200 bps = 1.4112 Mbps (well below the theoretical maximum of USB 1.1).

However, consider that many devices are now capbale of recording at 96 kHz with 24 bit samples....

(96kHz * 24 bits * 2 channels) = 4608000 bps = 4.608 Mbps

At that quality, you can only safely transmit 2 stereo pairs (technically, you could get 5 mono channels), assuming you have full bandwidth at your disposal.

For the most part, you can't assume full bandwidth in your transmission, since a lot of the time you'll have redundancy and/or other signals being transmitted on the line. Different designers make different assumptions about this, but the general trend with audio interfaces seems to be that the user should require maximum bandwidth allowances.

The other thing you're ignoring, is that the hardware drivers have to support more than 2 simultaneous channels, which most USB 1.1 devices do not, based upon my experience. In that situation, the limiting factor is not the USB cable, it's the hardware driver design.

[Moseph]

1) Presonus Inspire 1394 vs. Line 6 Toneport UX2 vs. M Audio Fast track Pro.

They all seem to be the same basic thing. I basically just want two inputs, phantom power, both Hi-Z & Mic inputs on both channels (I'm getting a nice new amp, so I'd like to be able to record vox + amp, but maybe somedays I'd want to just do vox + DI, so thats why I don't want a Firewire Solo) and for it to work nicely. Which should I get?

Actually, they're pretty different. The Inspire is a firewire device, while the other two are USB. Additionally, the Fast Track has MIDI capabilities. Also keep in mind the bundled software for each device is different.

Out of those three, I would suggest the Fast Track Pro, since it seems to have the hardware features you're looking for (2 channels, phantom and DI on each). I can't speak much for Ableton Live (I've never really looked into the version that came with my E-Mu 0404).

2) Is it true that ALL USB devices only do a stereo send to the sequencer? I know this is true of Alesis mixers, but I'm not sure if it is true of the Line 6 or M Audio.

See above, though I don't know of any devices that are USB 1.1 that go beyond 4 mono channels of I/O. USB 2.0 is a different matter, but I can't comment for lack of knowledge there.

3) You know how you can link together Inspires, Fireboxes and Firepods? Can you link, say, an Inspire and a Firepod together? I want a Firepod eventually, but not for a while, and when I get it I wouldn't want to throw away whatever I have now, so if you could just daisy chain an Inspire and a Firepod it would be awesome.

You should contact Presonus via email (they're actually pretty good even to prospective customers). My guess is no, however.

4) Do you use condensers for miking amps? I was looking at an MXL 990/991 or 993 package. £100. Just the 990 is £80, but that comes with a shockmount which you don't get in the kit. But I noticed on the MF pages it was saying the 991 and 993 are good for acoustic guitars & drum overheads but didn't mention amps. Hmmmm. Basically can you recommend two mics for under £150, preferably more like £100. I was thinking a SM57/PG57/Beta 57 and MXL 990?

I work in $USD, so for the specifics I might be off. The 990 is a pretty good buy for a beginner, and you could use it to mic an amp if you like. One reason engineers tend to use dynamic microphones rather than condenser mics on amps is sensitivity: condensers often have issues with extremely loud sources at close range, but you could probably fiddle with mic placements to get something you like. The 990 is a pretty mellow microphone though, so something like a SM57 would also give you a brighter sound that is more common for guitars. Here in the states, the MXL 990 and a 57 would run about $160 USD.

[Jon]

1) I don't really care about MIDI tbh, I have a USB keyboard (M Audio Oxygen 8), so I don't need MIDI i/o

I use Live at the moment but I sort of want to go back to Cubase, I dunno. It doesn't really matter actually (handy little thing beginning in T, endings in orrents, and related to the fact that I think if you physically can't afford something you shouldn't be left out. if you can, then you should pay. anyway).

2) Yeah for the moment I just want to record 2 channels simultaneously, so if you can do that with any of the three I listed without them being mixed down (as the Alesis mixers do) then that's all good.

3) Turns out you can't :(. Can you use two interfaces at the same time anyway? As I say if I upgraded in the future I wouldn't like to have a little box sitting around gathering dust... But like if you could say, use the 8 pre's on the firepod for whatever, and use the old interface for, say, backing vocals to free up channels, that would be cool. I can't think of any reason why not, because you'd just select different Ins on the sequencer wouldn't you?

4) That's what I think I'll do then (I read somewhere else about using the 990 for distancing paired with a close-miked 57, sounds cool). How does the PG57 compare with the SM57? Its sooooo cheap, but then again if I get a nice amp and nice interface it would be a shame to ruin it

thanks

[Moseph]

1) I don't really care about MIDI tbh, I have a USB keyboard (M Audio Oxygen 8), so I don't need MIDI i/o

I use Live at the moment but I sort of want to go back to Cubase, I dunno. It doesn't really matter actually (handy little thing beginning in T, endings in orrents, and related to the fact that I think if you physically can't afford something you shouldn't be left out. if you can, then you should pay. anyway).

Piracy is bad. Pirates are the reason MXTabs is still closed. Please do not discuss piracy here.

Additionally, there is something to be said for having one box do everything. It reduces the chances of driver conflict (which, though still rare, is more likely if you're using devices from different manufacturers), and also allows for an easier time with cable management.

3) Turns out you can't :(. Can you use two interfaces at the same time anyway? As I say if I upgraded in the future I wouldn't like to have a little box sitting around gathering dust... But like if you could say, use the 8 pre's on the firepod for whatever, and use the old interface for, say, backing vocals to free up channels, that would be cool. I can't think of any reason why not, because you'd just select different Ins on the sequencer wouldn't you?

I don't follow: why is this different than what you already found out wasn't possible?

While PreSonus seems to have designed both the Inspire and the Firepod to allow daisy-chaining of like interfaces, you seem to have already said that daisy-chaining of unlike interfaces isn't allowed. What might be possible is the use of a different computer with another device that has S/PDIF outputs to then feed the primary computer via the Firepod's S/PDIF inputs. But it doesn't look like the Inspire does S/PDIF output (though there's no reason you couldn't do this with any other device that does).

4) That's what I think I'll do then (I read somewhere else about using the 990 for distancing paired with a close-miked 57, sounds cool). How does the PG57 compare with the SM57? Its sooooo cheap, but then again if I get a nice amp and nice interface it would be a shame to ruin it

I have no idea about the key differences between a SM57 and PG57. I doubt you'll "ruin it" if you decide to go with the PG57: the PG series is pretty solid overall (I've got a PG52, 2 PG81s, and 3 PG45s, and I've also used a PG58). I think that most of the users here are at a level where the difference in sound caused by mic selection will be neglible, and the primary variable in sound quality will be mic placement and editing/mixing ability.

[Jon]

1) Nah, same amount of cables (1 USB vs. 1 or 2 MIDI)? I don't really care though, I barely use the keyboard.

2) No, I just found out after I did the original post that you can't daisychain two different presonus devices :( My new question was can you just have two audio interfaces plugged in and installed on the same computer at the same time and use them simultaneously (say firepod on tracks 1-8 and inspire on 9-10, or whatever)? using it on a different computer then connected via S/PDIF wouldn't really help me at all.

3) SAFE, I'll buy a PG57 as soon as I can.

thanks for the help.

[Moseph]

2) No, I just found out after I did the original post that you can't daisychain two different presonus devices :( My new question was can you just have two audio interfaces plugged in and installed on the same computer at the same time and use them simultaneously (say firepod on tracks 1-8 and inspire on 9-10, or whatever)?

I'm not going to say definitely not, but I really doubt it. When you think about it, it's really no different than daisy-chaining, except that instead of a serial feed of data to the computer, it's parallel.

[Jon]

actually i'd think its completely different to daisy chaining, because its controlled by your sequencer not your hardware, if you serial chained them then that compatibility would be governed by the interface (like how you can link two firepods but not two different models, that's a property of the interface). whereas if they were plugged into separate ports on the computer they'd both be sending data to the computer, and it would be up to the interface to say which interface goes to which track. I'm asking if you can select different interfaces for different tracks, which I'm starting to doubt, but it would be cool. on a simpler note, if you have a USB or firewire interface or whatever, can you record one or two tracks from that, and say, your computer soundcard (soundblaster, onboard, whatever) mic/line in inputs? I dunno :eek:

maybe I'll just save up for the firepod so i don't have to upgrade, but then again these devices seem to hold their value on eBay..

[Moseph]

Right, but you're forgetting that the DAW software needs to be capable of operating/accessing multipled drivers simultaneously (which I really doubt any software can do because it makes things incredibly complicated).

In that respect, it's not very different than daisy-chaining different interfaces (if the driver is properly written, it's simpler to treat two daisy-chained firepods as one device since the same code will affect both devices in the same way). While it's possible that some company had the forethought to design their drivers in a universal way (and found a way to actually implement this across various devices with various needs), it's not likely because it's much simpler for builders, programmers, and testers (ie, it costs much less money) to simply build a larger box that costs about the same as the two smaller boxes combined.