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Thunder Lizard
05-11-2007, 07:53 AM
So, here's this new(ish) company outta California, called Basson Sound.
A buddy picked up one of their guitar cabs on a trip to the US, and I loved it, so I thought I'd give a go at their bass cabs......wow!
The B210B is a 500watt, 4-ohm 2x10" with a switchable horn. It's got carpet covering, interlocking (plastic) stacking corners, dual Speakon jacks on a steel jackplate, deep metal 'scoop' handles on the sides and some serious duty casters that remove in a heartbeat (using a cool METAL clip system that's really tough) if you don't want your rock'n'roll rolling away on an unlevel stage. It's a hefty beast, for sure, at about 128 lbs, but that's due to "brick outhouse" construction- man, is this thing built serious. The cab is 3/4" MDF, and around the speaker / in the soundbox it's doubled up, so that's 1 1/2" of material, with great internal bracing and insulation. I got the grey grille cloth, and it's really cool looking, very retro- and it picks up stage lights in a nifty way, not to mention matching my grey bass.
The cab sounds amazing..... I play an Ibanez Ergodyne EDB 605 (or the matching 600 4-string), and the 10's get WAY down low- I dropped the tuning to "drop G" (low b string tuned down to an open super low G) and got clean, crisp response with no noticable frequency dropoff. The lows out of this thing are huge, and it handles a ton of power, (they claim 28Hz at 118db 1w 1m, and I say it's true) so you're keeping up in most situations with little or no effort.... I've jammed with a drummer, keys player and 3 guitarists, 2 with Marshalls and one with a Marshall / Basson rig, and everyone could hear me clear as a bell. The drummer said he's never heard the bass so clearly. The keys player knew it instantly when I jumped all over his left hand lines, :p
Switch off the horn, and you've got fat, warm, and clean. Flip it on, and there's a smooth, clear presence to the tone, but not overpowering "clack" or noise. The power handling means you can't really run this thing with most heads... the company recommends an amp that does a minimum of 400watts into 4 ohms, and I've got it sitting around 600 for headroom's sake- the cab takes everything I throw at it and more, using a PA power amp and a Pod XT Live- there's a 31 band EQ thrown into that loop, but it's so underused right now as to be negligable. Most people are using them with Ampegs and similar high-output heads. (Adding an octaver in the mix with the Pod created ridiculous vibrations all over the room, LMAO)
The cab is loaded with "find them darn near anwhere" great sounding and tough Eminence drivers, and last but not least? A 5- year factory warranty. And if you call, you talk to Shawn, who's friendly, helpful, and takes care of you instantly. ( I wanted the custom cover, but they weren't available yet)
I've done a "head to head" with an Ampeg 4x10" rated at the same power handling, and the Basson kicked it's hiney on low end and staying clean, while keeping up nicely on volume...... with half as many drivers! :thumb:
All in all, for a cab that cost me under $700 CDN, I'm so impressed I can't tell you- clean, punchy, warm, and tough like nails. I give the cabinet 4 out of 5 on construction (the thickness of the soundbox means no steel cornere, which I prefer), 4.85 out of 5 on tone (nothing's perfect) 5 out of 5 on appearance, and a total of 4.75 out of 5 for "overall value". If you've been wondering if they're ok? They are MORE than ok...... I'm sold totally.

rh15951
05-11-2007, 12:08 PM
I claim 118dB @ 28Hz is bullshit from a 2x10 direct radiator cab. My 4x10" + 1x15" will only push ~106dB. And reading further, I'm not sure that there are any Eminence 10" drivers rated down to 28Hz... A kappa pro 18" maybe... :lol:

Thunder Lizard
05-11-2007, 01:27 PM
As I mentioned, there is a 1/3 octave eq inline. Affecting 30hz produces a noticable effect- not as noticable as affecting 100hz, but it's there. At the same time, affecting 20hz seems to be nearly irrelevant. Unfortunately I dropped my RTA and haven't gotten the money together to replace it.
It is not unusual in good quality cabinets to have the box itself enhance the performance of multiple drivers- as a matter of fact, it's one of the main factors that "tuners" like to play with .... box size, construction, bracing, insulation, and porting all have to do with what performance you get out of a speaker. A great box marries the multiple drivers together into one BIG airmoving machine, and that's when enhanced low end can occur. So, if your single 15" isn't moving that kind of air, I'm not surprised..... technically, I have a 20" driver, and I have a box designed to enhance and tighten the low end. Not only that, but if your 4x10" isn't doing it, then it's likely the box design that's holding it back, and if you were to turn a box guru loose on it, they just MIGHT make it happen. (Or not, most bass cabs are too shallow to go really low- this one is deeper than anything else I've seen)
Considering that there are car audio 8" subs out there rated for much lower frequencies at higher sound pressure levels*when in a proper enclosure*, I'm pretty sure it's not too hard to believe. The "largest sub in the world" from Royal Devices used multiple 18" drivers (I forget how many, it was like 2 banks of 8 or something) that are, as I recall, rated to around 28 Hz individually, to create a low frequency horn that will reproduce starting at 10Hz, at full power. It's the enclosure that counts. Front radiation is great for clarity, but the BOX is what gets you low.
Think of it this way- every 5 string player in the world that tunes to low B asks his rig to reproduce about 30.87 hz. Not that far away from 28, really.
I'm sure whatever you're using could get there with a slight massaging..... maybe a port change, maybe a slightly larger box.....
Hey, that's why I think the Basson is so cool..... the box is wicked, man.
The drivers are cool, and they're well built, but by themselves, they're not going to impress anyone. The box is well built.

rh15951
05-11-2007, 02:37 PM
Realistically, the fundamental tone of the B string on a 5 string bass is unusable, even the fundamental tone of a standard E is too low to be useful in a live scenario. Of course you still hear them, but not as clearly as the overtones...

I stand by my opinion that 118dB @ 28Hz from 2 eminence 10" drivers in any box is lies. Eminence speakers are good, but they are outrageous specs...

Do you have a link to this cab, as it is not on their website with these specs...

PS, technically you don't have a 20" driver, the area of 2 10" circles (granted a speaker is a cone, but it'll work out similar) is actually less than that of a single 15".

We need Edge in here methinks.

Thunder Lizard
05-13-2007, 08:03 AM
The B210 http://www.bassonsound.com/b210b.htm
You have to look at a LOT more than just the specs on a driver when you consider what a cabinet can do, man.
I'm not particularly concerned with what works "on paper" for you.
I have one in front of me. I have tried the experiment. I have proved it works to myself.
If you believe me or not, I'm not particularly concerned about- either go try one out, and prove it to yourself, or get off my thread, ok? I'm not going to convince you over the internet, and I'm not going to argue theories with you when the practical reality exists to end the argument. You can bring in anyone you want.......Einstein himself could argue the math with me, it would not refute the reality.
Go find one, plug a dang bass into it, run an RTA, use an oscilliscope and tone generator, I don't care. You will find that somehow, somewhere, your theortetical physics are in error, and it actually works.

rh15951
05-13-2007, 09:54 AM
I think you will find that you have made the error. I promise you, that box with them speakers will not produce 118dB @ 28Hz. I'm not looking at the specs of the driver/box/amp/whatever, I'm looking at common sense.

If you are a sound tech, you should know that a decent sized clubs PA setup will just about reach 118dB, nevermind a small bass cab...

And you dont need Einstein, just the formula for working out the area of a circle or cone :thumb: Have fun.

Thunder Lizard
05-14-2007, 01:34 PM
Hm. Didn't mean the paper area of the cones math, sorry. I agree the 15" has more area. Was meaning more the math of the cabinet combined with multiple drivers. And I don't design them, nor to understand the very fine details of what makes them work.
Long and short of it, though, is that the cab does the unexpected. It works. It makes that frequency, and it does so at impressive levels. I've never had the whole dang thing up that loud, (118db spl) much less tried to repro one freq that loud, so I'm willing to concede that I've not actually proved that particular claim. I will say, too, that looking back over my research, the manufacturer didn't make that claim, it was an independent test, and I have to also concede that they may have either not made a perfectly controlled test, or made an error, or simply exaggerated.
But I swear, it's making that frequency at useable levels, levels that mean the little mother shakes the foundations. But I've got it right here, plugged in, and it does make 28Hz. Obviously, I can't do a test that can't be faked over the 'web, so I have no way to prove it to you other than to suggest that you try it yourself.
It is, however, one kick**s cabinet that does things you wouldn't expect it to. It sounds fantastic, goes ridiculous loud and low, and that's the facts. It has obliterated a previous favorite of mine, a custom 2x15" (loaded with JBL 2226H/J) as far as low frequency goes. Real world testing, set the tone up and switch back and forth.

As far as the club pa thing, man, there's too many variables to argue it that way. Some will, some won't, some don't have a chance of hitting that, and some can do it in a heartbeat.

edgebass5
05-21-2007, 05:21 PM
We need Edge in here methinks.

No we don't, you've been hitting the nail on the head rather squarely :thumb:

Getting 118db @ 28hz out of a 2x10 box is INCREDIBLY fishy to me. Maybe if those 2x10's were in a box the size of an 8x10 and ported by Cambridge scientists.... maybe....

Didn't realize that Basson cabinets were made of MDF. That's a HUGE turn-off to me. Speaking of huge turn-offs, a tweeter with an on/off rather than an attenuator, and the fact that these cabinets should be made out of lead based on how heavy they are.

All the same, I'm glad it works out for you. :chug:

Thunder Lizard
05-28-2007, 07:39 AM
As I've said, and as all of us recommend to everyone before buying..... try it out.
It IS astounding sound for these drivers.
The attenuator idea does appeal to me as well, edge, but honestly, they've done a good job with the horn, so it doesn't bother me. Since I use the Pod, I don't actually even use the switch, so I wouldn't care if there was no control at all.
Ported by the Cambridge scientists? Cambridge U, or Cambridge audio? *either of which employs some dang smart types*
Designed, carefully, by Victor Basson and his team. The guy is passionate about the sound of his product. The cabs are unique because the old ways didn't net the results he wanted.
No, really, PLEASE try them out. I hate 'net arguments, nobody wins, you can't really prove anything to anyone over the 'net about stuff like this. Please, try the cabs. I'm certain you'll agree that they're surprising as heck in a pleasant way.