Grip on sticks

[LittlePound]

Hey guys, i just had a question
i've noticed, and it's been happening for awhile but i just really started paying attention to it, that my sticks change position as i'm playing.
What i mean is this, when i'm playing a kit i have about 1.5in of stick hanging out of the back of my hand, but as i play this slips all the way into my grip where i have no stick hanging out of hte back, basically i'm gripping the stick all the way at the bottom. I don't think it has anything to do with how tight i'm holding the sticks though because i've never had a problem dropping sticks or losing control of them, they just slide up when playing on a kit.
But i've also noticed more recently that when i'm playing on a pad my hands slide up the stick. Instead of there being no excess in the back, my hands slide up to where i'm about a little less then halfway up the stick....it drives me nuts, not because it's slides, but because the feel and control is slightly different from where i'm holding the sticks. I'm trying to practice consistency consistently:thumb: but it gets hard when the sticks change position while i'm playing.
What do i do?
Or should i just not worry about it?

[Pearldrumguy]

can you get some pictures of your grip...

[Mirror.Circuit]

then you're gripping too lightly,or completely wrong altogether.
you shouldn't be white knuckle gripping the sticks,but don't just let them flop around either.

[wesm9787]

Your original grip you were talking about is how it should be. It shouldn't slide up or down while you're playing. Although I have had problems on occasion with the stick slipping down a little after I've been been playing for a while. It could be that your sticks are too thin or thick or something. Or it could be just that your grip is a little too loose.

[Pearldrumguy]

It's probably a fulcrum problem...or playing with fingers off the sticks.

[Caleb3221]

Carter Beauford and Billy Cobham hold their sticks at the back. It probably is just a function of the stick and how it balances in your hand. If it goes to the back and then stays there, it's probably just where it balances best. I'm about 99% sure you're completley fine.

Oh, sorry, missed the part where you didn't like the inconsistancy. Well: Your grip can shift naturally playing different parts of the kit anyway, so unless your pad is in the EXACT position of where your hands are playing on the kit, could be normal. Unless either of the grips your are moving too is bad in some other way, the fact that you move between them unconciously is not something to really worry about. Once again, I'm guessing that you'll be fine, but if it bothers you it might just be something to work on for the hell of it, but I don't think it'll hurt you overall.

[Pearldrumguy]

/\/\ his grip has a technical error most likely, it should be pretty constant unless it does.

[wesm9787]

Well, holding the sticks all the way at the back isn't really going to hurt anything, provided you only play with a wrist motion and don't use your fingers at all in the stroke. That limits your speed a lot though, especially with doubles. It's a trade off. The wrist muscles are stronger, and therefore you get more power. But they're also slower.

But yea, the stick shouldn't be shifting positions as you play.

[Drummer300btx]

i used to do that, but i grew out of it/got better. Just try to keep your sticks stationary with respect to your hands while you play and eventually you'll get it.

[Retarded Chipple]

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/wesselsgrip.html

^^^Correct grip.

A way to find out how tight to hold the sticks:

Make sure you have the correct grip on the sticks. Stand up and put your hands by your sides (still keeping the correct grip.) Now, slowly loosen your grip on the sticks until they slip through your hands and fall on the floor. Do it again only this time tighten just enough to stop them falling on the floor. That is how tight you should be playing.
If while you're playing you think you're tightening your grip up or whatever try and think that the sticks are a small animal such as a bird or a hamster. You wanna be holding it tight enough to stop it getting away but loose enough so that you don't hurt it.

[Caleb3221]

That is really, definatley not the only correct grip. There are a bunch of other correct grips you can use too. A lot of guys use the second finger for the fulcrum, you don't necessarily need to "not cross the lifeline" or whatever he says, and while it may be best to stay consistant within one grip, I change where the fulcrum falls on the stick for every pair of sticks.(There's a simple test to find the best balance point on a pair of sticks: hold the stick really loosely resting on the drumhead, and hit it with the other stick. It should start bouncing quickly and then buzz for a little while. If it bounces once then starts buzzing after a delay, move back, if it dosen't buzz move forward.


Anyway, aside from that, why exactly is it incorrect for your stick to shift? It could very well be bad, but does anyone have any specific reasoning as to why?

[wesm9787]

If you're playing the German (or matched, same thing) grip, then yes, that is the correct way to hold the stick. The hand should be flat and horizontal while playing, and the stick should look exactly like it does in the picture. If you want to use a different grip, then that's entirely different, and I'm sure they have diagrams showing how you should hold the stick for that particular grip as well. But for that grip, that is exactly the way your hands should look.

[Caleb3221]

Matched grip and german grip do not mean the same thing. French and American grips are also "matched" grips. And, even within german grip there are variations. As I said, some people play german grip with a first finger fulcrum, some with a second finger fulcrum. Also, as I said, the balance point is not the same for every stick. That is one correct way to hold a stick, but certainly not the only one.

[wesm9787]

Eh. I guess you got me on a technicality. That's what's usually referred to when talking about the matched grip though. I've never studied this stuff in depth, but I know a fair amount about it. So I'm sure there are other ways to hold the stick that are still right.

Anyway, I've noticed my technique is starting to slip slightly. I've also had problems with my sticks slipping down every now and then. I noticed my left hand always feels comfortable with the stick farther down than my right hand, and no matter how many times I check and fix it, every time I look it's still uneven. I have no idea whatsoever why this happens, or if it's really something to worry about. But the fact that I've become almost entirely on my wrists in my strokes is bothering me. Plus I've noticed my hands want to twist slightly where they're not flat. Which is also bothering me.

I think I'm going to get a teacher as soon as I dig myself out of debt. I need someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I've found I don't notice small problems until they become big ones.

[Caleb3221]

From what I can tell, what you are describing is completley normal. Actually, most people don't use german grip when they talk "matched". Generally people use something closer to an "american" grip, which is pretty much what you described-your hands just tilt a bit so they aren't flat.

I really think people need to worry a bit less about the technicality of technique: good technique is really important, but what you initially learn as great technique is not necessarily what you end up with. I saw an interview with Steve Gadd once where he didn't really know how he held his hands, and he said every once in a while he goes back to his "base" technique, and then lets it evolve again. Not everyones body is the same, not everyones setup is the same, not all sticks are the same, not everyones style is the same: you'll notice that most great drummers have some sort of unique grip thing going on(Billy Cobham, Carter Beauford have pretty strong french grips. Vinnie Colaiuta and Steve Gadd use a weird finger based german grip that seems to be pretty much what I end up doing too. Dave King uses something close to an american grip as far as I can tell. I have no idea what guys like Bill Stewart and Billy Bartin do-their grips are just totally unique)I also saw a video on the Moeller technique once that demonstrated that you can hold the sticks pretty much however you want and still get the same body mechanics going on. Minor inconsistancies in grip really don't matter, the big things are ergonomics and tension. If there isn't something specifically bad about what you're doing, it probably dosen't matter.

[wesm9787]

Well, it doesn't bother me so much that my hands are in a different position, since I do that with my right hand when playing my floor tom or ride anyway. It bothers me that things have changed about my technique without me changing them. I like playing my hihats and snare with flat hands, since that makes it easier to get the fluid loose motion I like to use. The other thing that bothers me is that I've been using my wrists entirely. My fingers have gotten pretty weak somehow, my pinky keeps wanting to slip of when I do drags and ruffs, I can't do doubles as well as I used to be able to, etc. I just need to work on my grip in general.

[iamjoe2]

what sticks are you useing? that makes a difference. this happens to me when i use one type of stick, but if i use a different stick its no problem at all.


worst case get some danny carrey sig sticks, you will not slip down those or you got some problems

[wesm9787]

Actually I've been experimenting with my grip trying to figure out my problem. I think I'm gripping harder in certain areas than in others. I actually loosened my grip and the sticks didn't seem to slip more than once or twice the whole time I played. I also played around with having the fulcrum at my middle finger instead of my index finger. I haven't decided which way I like better yet. I just need to sit down and work on my technique for a few weeks.

Just for the record though, I'm using Vater New Orleans Jazz sticks.

[some jive turkey]

I think the answer can be summed up in one word: leverage.

How far up or down your fulcrum is can affect how much leverage you have according to your needs. Certain playing situations may call for different needs. For speedier playing you may need to choke up, for louder, harder playing your grip might be farther back.

I'm guessing you probably don't need a lot of volume out of the practice pad, but you're digging in a little more behind the drumset.

[LittlePound]

ok well thanks for all the advice guys, i'll try the different things mentioned in here and if all that fails well, i'll guess i'll just stick with it and put up with it as it's not causing me any harm, it's just the feel is slightly different. Anyways, thanks again.

[Josiah]

ok well thanks for all the advice guys, i'll try the different things mentioned in here and if all that fails well, i'll guess i'll just stick with it and put up with it as it's not causing me any harm, it's just the feel is slightly different. Anyways, thanks again.

Didn't see much that actually addressed your problem. Wich is very common. Your grip will shift naturally as you play, and again as you evolve as a player. It's OK.


There could be many reasons explaining why this has happend (see above thread responses).


The solution however is different then the reasons - pay attention (that's the solution).

Obviouslly you have a comfortable place to hold the stick, wich for most people is the fulcrum slightly behind the balance point. Awesome rock on, find it. Mark it! Draw a line, put a piece of tape around the stick, etc something so that you can visually see INSTANTLY when the stick slipped. And when you play, you must pay strict attention to this.

What has happend is you started doing this, didn't notice, and formed a habit. Now you have to UN-form the habit.