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View Full Version : Punk in European Politics: Offshoot of Der Übermensche thread


Cain
05-07-2007, 04:51 PM
I think that the discussion of the often vacuous "political band" scenes in the United States and Western Europe in the other thread is kind of funny and all too true. It actually reminded me of a lengthly discussion of punk music's impact on the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe we had in my "Ideology and Revolution" class and how much deeper punk was over there back in punk's formative years. The book "A Carnival of Revolution" talks a lot about how punk's subversive role was very important to getting the political underground in Europe out of its routines and comfort zones, inspiring apoliticized followers of the underground to get out of their customary rhythms. In that sense, punk was not only subversive within the state but also within the commonly held structure of action within the underground.

Here's an awesome quote from a Polish author of a punk editorial 'zine, QQRYQ, on his theory of leading a "positivistic" and straight-edge lifestyle in order to revitalize the underground that had stagnated under the repressive authoritarian Communist government Poland had at the time. It really shows to me how the traditional punk alignment against "mass media exploitation" and the mainstream had much more moral and sociological weight in the Eastern Bloc since "mass media" meant state-controlled totalitarian media. It makes Western punk seem almost petty in its concerns when one sees how deeply this quote resonates with, I feel, the essence of what makes punk "subversive."

"How much longer will punk mean alcoholism, filth, helplessness, thoughtlessness? That isn't punk, that's a parody of punk created by the mass media, a youth farce in which we've been assigned the role of fools. I can't listen anymore to these futile moans: 'I'm ****ing bored,' 'Nothing's happening,' 'Let's get wasted, then it'll be fun.' Why do you complain there's so few concerts, when you don't do anything to organize them? Why do you hobble about pointlessly, not trying to do anything positive? I count on people for whom life is a battle, and not just drinking and humping. I count on those who know what to destroy and what to build, who have something more than a few overheard slogans in their heads, and don't run away from a drunken skinhead asking for a light."

It really made clear for me what I feel is kind of obscure to most people not deeply involved with punk, namely the meaning of straight-edge culture and especially the whole "Nazi punks **** off" thing and the swastika crossout buttons, which originates from the traditional enmity between skinheads and punks in Eastern Europe and the stupid methods of the authoritarian state in dealing with them, lumping the two groups together under the same "fascist" label of "Nazi Punks." Kind of neat.

It also makes me think that much less of bands like Green Day having any claim whatsoever to the status of a "punk band." As the book says, "punk fans and musicians in Western society had the liberty to reject the commercialization of music and the world of conformity" while in Eastern Europe conformity was orchestrated by the state by turning the subversive into a state-controlled product of official culture by playing punk on state-owned airwaves. Thus, even what was alternative became no alternative at all and required that much more effort and work on the part of the underground to fulfill its subversive role.

Dr Hooch
05-07-2007, 05:30 PM
You're all missing the point, which is that punk is musically godawful. On purpose.

AA-12
05-07-2007, 05:36 PM
^Fail Alert

lunchforthesky
05-07-2007, 06:18 PM
You're all missing the point, which is that punk is musically godawful. On purpose.

:lol:

gregulus
05-07-2007, 06:48 PM
his point still stands. punk hasn't changed. punk and its several sub-generes aren't dangerous anymore.

pedro durruti
05-07-2007, 08:36 PM
Interesting that punk in the USSR helped play a vital role in society, while punk in England and the US was more of an alternative to the crap of pop culture (although sometimes another crappy part of it).

Anyways, here are my thoughts on punk: http://208.101.36.26/forums/showpost.php?p=14658262&postcount=1

Jon
05-07-2007, 08:51 PM
I hate it when people say that such and such a band aren't punk because of their politics.

Punk was NEVER about politics, thats some american hardcore conspiracy.

All the more reason why anti-flag and co are retarded. You either want to be a musician, or a politican. A punk musician at that. should have nothing to do with politics.

pedro durruti
05-07-2007, 08:57 PM
Um, punk has been about politics for quite awhile. You don't have to have political lyrics to be punk, of course, but punk as a movement has generally been anti-establishment in a number of ways...

Yeah, politicians are the only ones who should be concerned with politics.

Jon
05-07-2007, 09:01 PM
the ramones and the buzzcocks were 100% DESTROY, weren't they?

even the Sex Pistols, sure they were a reaction to the disaffection, but that was more social than purely political.

pedro durruti
05-07-2007, 09:05 PM
I didn't say all punk bands were political, nor that political punk bands consistently sing with politics in mind.

Der Übermensch
05-07-2007, 10:48 PM
Where'd that "e" come from?
:p

Cain
05-08-2007, 12:17 AM
Wow everybody is missing the point completely which is that punk's evolution was due to its subversive cultural aspect, and culture is always inherently tied up with politics because culture involves a moral and social framework.

And Der Uberwhatsis...I don't know.