Dana Rohrabacher says, "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs."

[Iscariot]

rep. rohrabacher believes that the detainment and torture of "possible" terrorists is completely acceptable

he feels that if a few innocent people are captured detained tortured and later abandoned in foreign territory well that's just the price that america has to pay

america

not the people who were tortured of course

towards the end of the conference he even wishes death upon the members of the audience and their families if they don't support this idea of secretive heavy fisted justice

ladies and gentlemen i give you representative dana rohrabacher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLnMADX0bM8

[Danger Bird]

****ing disgusting.

So I was thinking of living in one of those nice, free, western European countries, maybe like Sweden or Amsterdam. I'll have to do my research and find which one of those socialist paradises is best for me.

[White Riot!]

Atilla Kandemir says dana rohrabacher is a crypto fascist dumb**** right wing scumbag

[griftadan]

if it worked i honestly couldn't care less. i don't think theres any evidence to suggest that this is at all necessary though.

[Danger Bird]

Rep. Rohrabacher, they don't hate our way of life, they hate our despicable foreign policy.

[Smokey D]

****ing disgusting.

So I was thinking of living in one of those nice, free, western European countries, maybe like Sweden or Amsterdam. I'll have to do my research and find which one of those socialist paradises is best for me.

Nice.

There's always a few people in legislatures the world over advocating we adopt policies of torture or pre-emptive nuclear attacks or what have you. No one really listens to them, so we needn't get very worried.

[Iscariot]

Nice.

There's always a few people in legislatures the world over advocating we adopt policies of torture or pre-emptive nuclear attacks or what have you. No one really listens to them, so we needn't get very worried.

except his statements are in support of actual secret prisons in eastern europe run by the united states government and incidents regarding the capture and detainment of innocent people by the CIA who were in turn tortured abused and abandoned several months later

[pedro durruti]

He's obviously been to the capital of the Netherlands a few too many times, if you know what I mean.

You shouldn't mix utilitarian principles with things like torture.

[Smokey D]

Yeah, but that stuff happens outside of congressional oversight.

It's not as if the Congress or Parliament is going to support outright torture. That's usually up to executive governments who operate with little regulation or, as the CIA has done, outside of borders where they can be easily checked up on.

Obviously, torture is despicable, but there are far more pressing instances of it to be concerned about than one crazy in Congress.

You shouldn't mix utilitarian principles with things like torture.

If torture maximised utility and we didn't practise it, we wouldn't be being utilitarians.

[Reaganista]

rofl torture as utilitarianism

sure we killed or mutilated a few people, but at least we got them to tell us some desperate lies which will allow us to justify killing or multilating some more people

and the cycle continues ad infinitum, until everyone's been tortured

this is to everyone's benifit because the utilities of the learned are preferable to the utilities of the ignorant
and now we've all learned about torture

so I agree

[pedro durruti]

I just meant that you shouldn't forfeit a small group of people's rights for the benefit of all.

[Reaganista]

well I think you should, in most cases

good thing that's not the situation here I guess

[pedro durruti]

What's not the situation?

[Reaganista]

forfeit[ing] a small group of people's rights for the benefit of all is not the situation here

[pedro durruti]

He's trying to justify torture, and the deprivation of basic human rights, in order to preemptively protect others, because 9/11 and the war have created a state of exception.

[Reaganista]

um well now we've gone back a few posts

well anyway here's the issue

torture doesn't work
it's not for the benifit of all
it doesn't protect others

it serves no purpose other than making innocent people confess

[Dr Hooch]

News just in

Tortured guys tell you what you want to hear


More news just in

Arab Terrorists kill, abduct and torture westeners

America's government kill, capture and torture Arabs


Srsly this is the lamest parallel ever and it still stands

[AmericanWeiner]

ATTN: America eats enough already. We do not need an Omelette.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

i saw we hard boil that fcking omelette and throw that shi at terrorists

[Otherside]

Disgusting.

[Egggo]

amsterdam is a fantastic country to live in

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

If it works and the people who know what they're doing think it's a good idea, then I don't care. If the situation calls for it, all options should be available so that the best one can be chosen

If you ban torture as an interrogation technique, then the onus is on you to find one that works in situations in which torture is the best option

[Frankie-C!]

Isn't Dana a girl's name?

[Hababi]

News just in

Tortured guys tell you what you want to hear


More news just in

Arab Terrorists kill, abduct and torture westeners

America's government kill, capture and torture Arabs


Srsly this is the lamest parallel ever and it still stands

It really doesn't stand, it falls flat.

Dana Rohrabacher is one of the dumbest members of Congress.

Torture works sometimes. If it didn't, they wouldn't use it.

[Dr Hooch]

If it works and the people who know what they're doing think it's a good idea, then I don't care. If the situation calls for it, all options should be available so that the best one can be chosen

If you ban torture as an interrogation technique, then the onus is on you to find one that works in situations in which torture is the best option

Luckily torture is never effective and totally ethically unacceptable

I see what you write as equivalent to "If you ban nuking cities as a warfare technique, then the onus is on you to find one that works in situations in which nuking cities is the best option"

When clearly nuking cities is never ever ok

[Hababi]

Luckily torture is never effective and totally ethically unacceptable


Once again, if torture was never effective, nobody would waste time doing it to extract information.

[italic zero]

It is effective, just not at getting the truth. Torturers aren't always all that interested in the truth.

[Akira]

I haven't felt this much hatred for anyone in quite a while.

[Frankie-C!]

Once again, if torture was never effective, nobody would waste time doing it to extract information.

As I understand, under the 'patriot act', anyone can be detained under suspicion of terrorist activity for an indefinite period without access to legal representation. Combined with your government's policy on torture, how can you consciencously support such a regime?

Not to mention the fact that the people they are targetting (supposed Islamic extremists - which could potentially be anyone with a radical islamist political stance) - don't value their own lives let alone those of others.

[spitfirejunky]

Beyond sleep deprivation, torture is absolutely useless.

[Frankie-C!]

Beyond sleep deprivation, torture is absolutely useless.

Doesn't it remind you at all of the spanish inquisition?

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Luckily torture is never effective

Unless you're an intelligence expert, I'm not going to agree with that statement

and totally ethically unacceptable

As much as we'd all like to fight an idealistically pure and follow all "rules" of war, the situation on the ground often requires things which may be considered unethical or even inhuman

Torture should not be used as the only interrogation technique. Sometimes, it's much more effect to give the detainee a cup of coffee and some cigarettes. Other times, however, the best way to get information is to throw that coffee at his face and burn him with that cigarette. Which technique to use should be up to the interrogation experts on the ground, and all options should be on the table.

I see what you write as equivalent to "If you ban nuking cities as a warfare technique, then the onus is on you to find one that works in situations in which nuking cities is the best option"

When clearly nuking cities is never ever ok

Once again, unless you're a tactician educated in military science, I can't agree with you. There may be times when, to the commander in charge, using nuclear weapons is the best option. Putting up rules about what tactics can and cannot be used is like tying one of your arms behind your back before a boxing match. If a cause is worth achieving militarily, all options must be available to the commanders to use at their discretion, in order to achieve victory as quickly as possible. Considering that the enemy we are fighting thinks nothing of decapitating their captives, to not have all viable options available puts us at a disadvantage

[Egggo]

umm it's basic common sense

if someone is threatening you with physical pain and abuse, you're going to tell them what they want to hear

and what they want to hear isn't always the actual truth

caring about personal survival and the truth are not mutually inclusive at all

[Frankie-C!]

Unless you're an intelligence expert, I'm not going to agree with that statement


So you trust an "intelligence expert" to be ethical and coherently decsisive, and not just a sadistic cowboy?


As much as we'd all like to fight an idealistically pure and follow all "rules" of war, the situation on the ground often requires things which may be considered unethical or even inhuman


But how can you be assured that it will only be used in the appropriate circumstances? To think that these so-called 'intelligence experts' are of sounds mind is naive to say the least. Ever heard of a little conflict that occured in Vietnam?


Torture should not be used as the only interrogation technique. Sometimes, it's much more effect to give the detainee a cup of coffee and some cigarettes. Other times, however, the best way to get information is to throw that coffee at his face and burn him with that cigarette. Which technique to use should be up to the interrogation experts on the ground, and all options should be on the table.


Again, you place far too much trust in people who have only let you down in the past.


Once again, unless you're a tactician educated in military science, I can't agree with you. There may be times when, to the commander in charge, using nuclear weapons is the best option. Putting up rules about what tactics can and cannot be used is like tying one of your arms behind your back before a boxing match. If a cause is worth achieving militarily, all options must be available to the commanders to use at their discretion, in order to achieve victory as quickly as possible

No, using nuclear weapons is simply unacceptable. But the I suppose you also condone the use of cluster bombs and land mines?

[Dr Hooch]

Unless you're an intelligence expert, I'm not going to agree with that statement

See eggo

As much as we'd all like to fight an idealistically pure and follow all "rules" of war, the situation on the ground often requires things which may be considered unethical or even inhuman

Then you're as bad as the enemy and you may as well join them

There's no war left to fight

Torture should not be used as the only interrogation technique. Sometimes, it's much more effect to give the detainee a cup of coffee and some cigarettes. Other times, however, the best way to get information is to throw that coffee at his face and burn him with that cigarette. Which technique to use should be up to the interrogation experts on the ground, and all options should be on the table.


There's a difference between interrogation techniques and torture

Good cop bad cop is an interrogation technique

breaking fingers iwth pliers and attatching electrodes to places that should never see electrodes is torture

Once again, unless you're a tactician educated in military science, I can't agree with you. There may be times when, to the commander in charge, using nuclear weapons is the best option. Putting up rules about what tactics can and cannot be used is like tying one of your arms behind your back before a boxing match. If a cause is worth achieving militarily, all options must be available to the commanders to use at their discretion, in order to achieve victory as quickly as possible. Considering that the enemy we are fighting thinks nothing of decapitating their captives, to not have all viable options available puts us at a disadvantage


Again, see the point about 'there's a reason you're fighting against them other than just to win'

When you try to declare war on a technique like terrorism this is the kind of crap that people start o accept because of the success of the other side, namely creating a state of fear

Dropping nukes on cities is not a military technique since it leads to the blanket killing of civilians

It's terrorism

[Hababi]

umm it's basic common sense

if someone is threatening you with physical pain and abuse, you're going to tell them what they want to hear

and what they want to hear isn't always the actual truth

caring about personal survival and the truth are not mutually inclusive at all

When you're using coercive interrogation against a terrorist, though, what you want to hear is what they know, and often, what they will say. There is a track record of success with coercive interrogation in the War on Terrorism.

[pedro durruti]

Beyond sleep deprivation, torture is absolutely useless.
Nah, sleep deprivation can be just as bad as any other form of physical and psychological torture.

[Smokey D]

rofl torture as utilitarianism

sure we killed or mutilated a few people, but at least we got them to tell us some desperate lies which will allow us to justify killing or multilating some more people

and the cycle continues ad infinitum, until everyone's been tortured

this is to everyone's benifit because the utilities of the learned are preferable to the utilities of the ignorant
and now we've all learned about torture

so I agree

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying torturing does maximise utility or that we should even follow a utilitarian way of life. I'm saying that if we were utilitarians, and torturinf some people could be proven to maximise utility however it was defined, we'd be obligated to torture some people.

[pedro durruti]

I'm saying that if we were utilitarians, and torturinf some people could be proven to maximise utility however it was defined, we'd be obligated to torture some people.
I don't think I can agree with that, because torture isn't a guaranteed method of extracting information, its a clear violation of human rights (how often would getting information about potential attacks from non-involved terrorists in time work, anyways?), and governments cannot realistically be trusted with the temporarily granted power of suspending rights, especially the right to be protected from torture.

[Smokey D]

I'm not saying torture is good dammit! I'm saying if it could be proven to maximise utility, utilitarians would opt to torture. Utilitarians aren't concerned with rights -- only maximising utility.

[spitfirejunky]

Nah, sleep deprivation can be just as bad as any other form of physical and psychological torture.

Sleep deprivation has limited usefulness, this is a psychological fact. Whether or not it's unethical is debatable, but I made that statement in the context of effectiveness.

[Reaganista]

Torture works sometimes. If it didn't, they wouldn't use it.

torture is great when you want an innocent person to confess

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying torturing does maximise utility or that we should even follow a utilitarian way of life. I'm saying that if we were utilitarians, and torturinf some people could be proven to maximise utility however it was defined, we'd be obligated to torture some people.
yeah i got it

I was just going off on a tangent

because jokes that are funny to no one but me are my favorite kind

[Knifeboy]

When you're using coercive interrogation against a terrorist, though, what you want to hear is what they know, and often, what they will say. There is a track record of success with coercive interrogation in the War on Terrorism.


lol @ using the word succes in the same sentence as "war on terrorism"

[pedro durruti]

I'm not saying torture is good dammit! I'm saying if it could be proven to maximise utility, utilitarians would opt to torture. Utilitarians aren't concerned with rights -- only maximising utility.
Utilitarians are gay

[peeted]

Humans should never be a means to and end. And torture is completley illogical any way.

[Der Übermensch]

Utilitarians are gay

Everyone is a Utilitarian to a degree...

And Smokey, that would only be arguable with Benthium Utilitarianism...
JSM wouldn't have agreed with that assessment...

[gregulus]

Everyone is a Utilitarian to a degree...

And Smokey, that would only be arguable with Benthium Utilitarianism...
JSM wouldn't have agreed with that assessment...

And Bentham wouldn't have agreed with a lot of what JSM agreed with.

PS why aren't you ever on aim, my life is a little more boring now...

[Der Übermensch]

huh?
I'm on right now...

Edit: Weird... I just realized that my AIM has probably been ****ed up for the day... didn't notice...

[Hababi]

torture is great when you want an innocent person to confess


The folks we're coercively interrogating ain't innocent.

lol @ using the word succes in the same sentence as "war on terrorism"

There have been many significant successes in the war on terrorism.

[Der Übermensch]

The folks we're coercively interrogating ain't innocent.
As you seem to be pointing out, torture, by its nature, is guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around.
Thats precisly why it is such a dangerous activity to engage in.

[ashman]

Wow...this "War on Terrorism" is turning out into one of those 'If God's on our side, who's on theirs?' thing.

[Hababi]

As you seem to be pointing out, torture, by its nature, is guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around.
Thats precisely why it is such a dangerous activity to engage in.

It's certainly dangerous. But people who are coercively interrogated have been picked up on the battle field. There's overwhelming evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt, and often it involves a pressing need to extract information from them.

A few years ago, an officer was interrogating a Jihadist. The Jihadist knew where an attack was going to happen, and the officer knew he knew. So, the officer took out a gun and shot a barrel beside the Jihadist. The Jihdadist started talking. And disgusting organizations like Amnesty International had a fit. They don't care about the lives of American soldiers.

[Iscariot]

The folks we're coercively interrogating ain't innocent.

but there are a few who are

people who were picked up by the CIA just for having the same name as a suspected terrorist or for attending the wrong mosque at the wrong time and these are the people who have either held their ground and been tortured to no living end for information they didn't have or that gave false testimony just to escape their living hell

[Hababi]

That's why we have to be careful with it, but I don't see that as negating the technique in all cases.

[Egggo]

It's certainly dangerous. But people who are coercively interrogated have been picked up on the battle field. There's overwhelming evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt, and often it involves a pressing need to extract information from them.

A few years ago, an officer was interrogating a Jihadist. The Jihadist knew where an attack was going to happen, and the officer knew he knew. So, the officer took out a gun and shot a barrel beside the Jihadist. The Jihdadist started talking. And disgusting organizations like Amnesty International had a fit. They don't care about the lives of American soldiers.

if you want to follow that kind of backwards and reductive thinking then people like you don't care about the lives of innocent people who get tortured

[Hababi]

if you want to follow that kind of backwards and reductive thinking then people like you don't care about the lives of innocent people who get tortured

I care much more about the thousands of lives saved through the process than the rare cases of mistaken identity that actually led to coercive interrogation. You're going to make mistakes. That's a reality of having a justice system and waging a war. Is it really worse to use sleep deprovation on a person than locking them in prison for twenty years for a crime they didn't commit, before they are freed by DNA evidence? You don't abandon a technique because of rare cases of mistaken identity. You just work to minimize those cases.

[Egggo]

I care much more about the thousands of lives saved through the process than the rare cases of mistaken identity that actually led to coercive interrogation. You're going to make mistakes. That's a reality of having a justice system and waging a war. Is it really worse to use sleep deprovation on a person than locking them in prison for twenty years for a crime they didn't commit, before they are freed by DNA evidence? You don't abandon a technique because of rare cases of mistaken identity. You just work to minimize those cases.

but those mistakes only create ill will in people (and their families and friends) who would have not otherwise held such beliefs beforehand; it only perpetuates the problem of irrational hatred towards america in the islamic world...haven't you seen movies like paradise now?

and as the tway said, torture is great if you want the innocent confess

[Hababi]

but those mistakes only create ill will in people (and their families and friends) who would have not otherwise held such beliefs beforehand; it only perpetuates the problem of irrational hatred towards america in the islamic world...haven't you seen movies like paradise now?


Ill will? People have their entire lives disrupted and even ruined when they're wrongfully imprisoned. I'd much sooner go through sleep deprivation than have that happen.

We're not even talking about real torture. We're talking about sleep deprivation, at the most waterboarding. And if the argument is that ought not to do it because we may accidentally include innocent people, that is an indictment against the entire justice system.


and as the tway said, torture is great if you want the innocent confess

Because we set out to coercively interrogate innocent people.

[Egggo]

Ill will? People have their entire lives disrupted and even ruined when they're wrongfully imprisoned. I'd much sooner go through sleep deprivation than have that happen.

umm then don't wrongfully imprison or torture people

We're not even talking about real torture. We're talking about sleep deprivation, at the most waterboarding. And if the argument is that ought not to do it because we may accidentally include innocent people, that is an indictment against the entire justice system.

lol you remind me of the fox news idiot who decides to see what the big deal is about waterboarding and then suddenly realizes he can't take it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c2Xd0Q2Auz4

Because we set out to coercively interrogate innocent people.

that's not the point gg

[Hababi]

umm then don't wrongfully imprison or torture people


Well, when you come up with a 100% foolproof way to avoid imprisoning innocent people, then you can say this. Because so long as there is a justice system, there will be instances of innocent people being imprisoned.


lol you remind me of the fox news idiot who decides to see what the big deal is about waterboarding and then suddenly realizes he can't take it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c2Xd0Q2Auz4


I know what waterboarding is. And it's nothing compared to real torture.


that's not the point gg

Coercive isn't used to extract confessions from innocent people.

[Egggo]

Well, when you come up with a 100% foolproof way to avoid imprisoning innocent people, then you can say this. Because so long as there is a justice system, there will be instances of innocent people being imprisoned.

last time i checked wrongfully abducting people isn't part of the justice system we operate under either

I know what waterboarding is. And it's nothing compared to real torture.

so you wouldn't have a problem going through with it okay cool some of my friends will be stopping by pitt in a couple hours

Coercive isn't used to extract confessions from innocent people.

lol what

[Hababi]

last time i checked wrongfully abducting people isn't part of the justice system we operate under either

Sure. Rightfully abducting people is.



so you wouldn't have a problem going through with it okay cool some of my friends will be stopping by pitt in a couple hours


Well if you want to continue to try to spin everything I said, go ahead :p

What would you rather experience:
1) Waterboarding
2) 10 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.


lol what

It's rather self apparent.

[Dr Hooch]

The folks we're coercively interrogating ain't innocent

let me guess

they confessed everything under torture


there is no battleground in iraq

the insurgents aren't an army who agree to meet and fight with america at midday on the poppy field



the war in iraq takes place in civilian cities and farms and homes and you can be there without being a militant

[Egggo]

What would you rather experience:
1) Waterboarding
2) 10 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.

well if i didn't commit the crime then it doesn't make much sense for me to be wrongfully tortured or imprisoned

either way i'd tell them what they'd want to hear if it will get me out of either

and i'm pretty sure that's what everyone else would do

which doesn't help the torturers much now does it >:]

[Der Übermensch]

What would you rather experience:
1) Waterboarding
2) 10 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.

I'd rather not getting waterboarded into confessing to a crime I didn't commit and then serving 10 years for it?

[Egggo]

let me guess

they confessed everything under torture


there is no battleground in iraq

the insurgents aren't an army who agree to meet and fight with america at midday on the poppy field



the war in iraq takes place in civilian cities and farms and homes and you can be there without being a militant

i don't think zero quite realizes this :-\

[Hababi]

I'd rather not getting waterboarded into confessing to a crime I didn't commit and then serving 10 years for it?

Once again, to base any argument for or against a technique on the inevitability of innocent people being wronged is fallacious, because if we use that, we can effectively kill every aspect of the justice system.

well if i didn't commit the crime then it doesn't make much sense for me to be wrongfully tortured or imprisoned


But it happens. So which one would you prefer?


and i'm pretty sure that's what everyone else would do


That is not relevant to the substantial body of success that coercive interrogation has offered America.

[Egggo]

But it happens. So which one would you prefer?

i'd prefer that the us, the richest and most powerful country in the world, not make idiotic rookie mistakes

That is not relevant to the substantial body of success that coercive interrogation has offered America.

proof plz

[Der Übermensch]

Once again, to base any argument for or against a technique on the inevitability of innocent people being wronged is fallacious, because if we use that, we can effectively kill every aspect of the justice system.

You asked which I would rather experience... And thats what would probably happen if I was tortured... I'd tell them what ever the **** they wanted, regardless of the truth.

I'm not saying the justice system can ever be perfect... innocents WILL always be caught up in it, and there is nothing we can do about that...

[Hababi]

i'd prefer that the us, the richest and most powerful country in the world, not make idiotic rookie mistakes


Nice punt. Well, since you're just going to continue to dodge the question, I'll move on to your little point. What do you mean by "idiotic rookie mistakes"? Arresting a few innocent people? That's not a rookie mistake. It happens.


proof plz

The Bush administration has provided it in the past.

You asked which I would rather experience... And thats what would probably happen if I was tortured... I'd tell them what ever the **** they wanted, regardless of the truth.


Of course. But you have to accept that the vast majority of people who are interrogated are guilty.


I'm not saying the justice system can ever be perfect... innocents WILL always be caught up in it, and there is nothing we can do about that...

Yes. Obviously the goal is to minimize this, but I don't see throwing out entire interrogation techniques or punishments due to the fact that it's conceivable that sooner or later an innocent person will suffer through it.

[Reaganista]

The folks we're coercively interrogating ain't innocent.

everyone is innocent of something

and everyone will confess to those things if you torture them

[Egggo]

Nice punt. Well, since you're just going to continue to dodge the question, I'll move on to your little point. What do you mean by "idiotic rookie mistakes"? Arresting a few innocent people? That's not a rookie mistake. It happens.

arresting several people simply because they have the same name as a terrorist is a pretty idiotic rookie mistake

and torturing them isn't going to help the US get better public relations with the secular neutral majority of muslims nor will it get the US actual information

i think taxpayer's money would be much better spent on better intelligence than stupidly pointless defense contracts

The Bush administration has provided it in the past.

nice dodging the question :rolleyes:

[Egggo]

Yes. Obviously the goal is to minimize this, but I don't see throwing out entire interrogation techniques or punishments due to the fact that it's conceivable that sooner or later an innocent person will suffer through it.

ok so you agree with rohrabacher this explains a lot

[gregulus]

Yes. Obviously the goal is to minimize this, but I don't see throwing out entire interrogation techniques or punishments due to the fact that it's conceivable that sooner or later an innocent person will suffer through it.

except when said interrogation techniques are torture....

[Hababi]

arresting several people simply because they have the same name as a terrorist is a pretty idiotic rookie mistake

And it's wonderful that hindsight is 20/20. Now, don't you think that they're working to make sure that doesn't happen again? 'Cause, ya know, they do have better things to do than interrogate innocent people.

and torturing them isn't going to help the US get better public relations with the secular neutral majority of muslims nor will it get the US actual information


Once again, if it didn't get information, it wouldn't be used.

i think taxpayer's money would be much better spent on better intelligence than stupidly pointless defense contracts


That's a broad indictment of defense contracts when many are quite valid and properly executed.

ok so you agree with rohrabacher this explains a lot

Not really but you can keep trying to spin my words :p

except when said interrogation techniques are torture....

Depends what you call torture. I call what the Japanese did to the Chinese during WW2 'torture'. I don't call putting someone in a stress position for a few hours, or depriving them of sleep, "torture."

[pedro durruti]

Sleep deprivation has limited usefulness, this is a psychological fact. Whether or not it's unethical is debatable, but I made that statement in the context of effectiveness.
I think it's just as effective as getting an (desired) answer than when using any other method. Just last night, when my roomate was being an obnoxious asshole chatting on the phone at 4 AM with his ugly laptop screen permeating the room, I started getting a little deranged, and my emotions were going haywire. Think about what prisoners purposely getting tortured have to go through. Kept up for days on end by bright lights or louds noises, and they're already in uncomfortable conditions as it is. It really ****s you up, man.

[Smokey D]

Zero, is psychological torture 'real' torture?

[Hababi]

Zero, is psychological torture 'real' torture?

It depends the technique and extent.

[Dr Hooch]

Zerocool do you EVER get tired of being wrong?

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

I don't call putting someone in a stress position for a few hours, or depriving them of sleep, "torture."what is it relaxing

is everyone supposed be perfectly happy to not sleep for a few days for no reason at all

[Hababi]

what is it relaxing

is everyone supposed be perfectly happy to not sleep for a few days for no reason at all

Ummmm dude people who are arrested and put into jail aren't happy, whether they're in stress positions or not :\

[c0mpt0n4ss]

rofl torture as utilitarianism

sure we killed or mutilated a few people, but at least we got them to tell us some desperate lies which will allow us to justify killing or multilating some more people

and the cycle continues ad infinitum, until everyone's been tortured



That's why I pre-empted them and hooked my balls up to a car battery. I'll get me before they get me.