Human Cloning: For it or Against it?

[Tillius]

I'm currently writing my senior thesis on the issue of whether or not human cloning should be banned, and I was wondering what some of your views were.

Are you for it or against it?

[Jharaski]

I do not really agree with it, but my morals should not be used to determine if it's banned or not. It should be allowed.

It's just something I feel uncomfortable with. Like, I could have been that cloned tool. You know?

[Tillius]

I get it.

Before I took this project I was immediately against it, but after I started researching it more I'm just unsure...which is making it hard because we're supposed to write in the paper whether we support our issue or not.

[sexymuffin]

idk maybe cloning like organs and stuff but cloning entire people seems like just creating more mouths to feed

[Iscariot]

for it primarily for the impact it could have on international warfare

i would rather see a bunch of clones with no history and no family and nothing to lose duke it out on a battlefield than a bunch of soldiers with children and families waiting at home to see if dad is ever coming back

i just see clones as expendable tools tbh

[Kayetan]

Each clone would still have a conscience though, I think. One of the problems I have with it is that you'd be creating a human who would be treated as less than human. The wouldn't always be the case, but I definitely can see it happening. I'm still undecided though.

[MadeyAdamz]

no one can clone a human

[sweboy]

idk maybe cloning like organs and stuff but cloning entire people seems like just creating more mouths to feed

Huh, you're not creating any more mouths than you'd do with regular reproduction?
for it primarily for the impact it could have on international warfare

i would rather see a bunch of clones with no history and no family and nothing to lose duke it out on a battlefield than a bunch of soldiers with children and families waiting at home to see if dad is ever coming back

i just see clones as expendable tools tbh

What, why wouldn't clones have rights?

[Iscariot]

What, why wouldn't clones have rights?

idk i don't really see them as people they're more like artificial things

[sexymuffin]

Huh, you're not creating any more mouths than you'd do with regular reproduction?

right but we'd have cloning on top of reproduction

[MadeyAdamz]

why dont we just clone and use drugs to pump us up

[gregulus]

I don't really see the point. What benefits does cloning have?

The process with which reproductive cloning would occur, however, offers great benefits to science, only it involves stem cells. Somatic cell nuclear transfer is a process in which the nucleus is removed from a human egg and replaced with the nucleus of a somatic cell containing the DNA for a certain disease. After cell division begins, stem cells can be gathered that would ultimately give scientists a better understanding of how certain diseases act, thus making it possible to cure the diseases quicker. SCNT would advance science in huge ways.

[gregulus]

idk i don't really see them as people they're more like artificial things

Except clones would be real people. Was Dolly the sheep not a real sheep?

[Jharaski]

What, why wouldn't clones have rights?

If you're going to clone them to begin with, I doubt you're looking to bring a PERSON into the world, rather a tool.

[sweboy]

right but we'd have cloning on top of reproduction

No. You do know how cloning works right? It's not like you press a button and a bunch of clones pop out of a machine.
If you're going to clone them to begin with, I doubt you're looking to bring a PERSON into the world, rather a tool.
It'd be no different from when people have children today. There's no relevant difference between a cloned person and a non-cloned person.

[Jharaski]

No. You do know how cloning works right? It's not like you press a button and a bunch of clones pop out of a machine.

It'd be no different from when people have children today. There's no relevant difference between a cloned person and a non-cloned person.

What I'm saying is this. Think about why someone would perform cloning. The vast majority would probably be for medical reasons, and thus, these would be treated as tools, such as to create stem cells so the scientists don't feel like murderers for chopping up a 15 year old clone to get a liver.

[PerpetualBurn]

I believe that clinical trials should always be done under informed consent. Since cloning a person would entail a number of inherent risks in development, that said person would be unable to willingly consent to taking any risks and I would deem their creation unethical. However, if you could guarantee, hypothetically, that the clone would be at no more risk of medical complications than the average naturally conceived person, then I would have no issue.

[Jharaski]

I believe that clinical trials should always be done under informed consent. Since cloning a person would entail a number of inherent risks in development, that said person would be unable to willingly consent to taking any risks and I would deem their creation unethical. However, if you could guarantee, hypothetically, that the clone would be at no more risk of medical complications than the average naturally conceived person, then I would have no issue.

That is another issue. The only way to get better at that is to perform more clonings, sadly.

[gregulus]

No. You do know how cloning works right? It's not like you press a button and a bunch of clones pop out of a machine.

It's also very unlikely that couples would stop procreating so they could have a copy of someone else. Cloning would make the population rise, but I doubt by very much at all.

I'm just waiting for someone to tell me what purpose human cloning has. I can't think of one.

[Jharaski]

It's also very unlikely that couples would stop procreating so they could have a copy of someone else. Cloning would make the population rise, but I doubt by very much at all.

I'm just waiting for someone to tell me what purpose human cloning has. I can't think of one.

The only valid reason is medicine.

You can argue that it's valid to clone Hitler to beat up his clone, but that wouldn't be very nice.

[Chrysostom]

I am utterly against cloning human beings. Anything we can do, Nature can and does do better. Humanity needs to stop and realize there are some places we shouldn't poke our noses in to.

[MadeyAdamz]

i want to clone a hot girl and make her mine

[Jharaski]

i want to clone a hot girl and make her mine

Clone yourself and we can share

[gregulus]

The only valid reason is medicine.

You can argue that it's valid to clone Hitler to beat up his clone, but that wouldn't be very nice.
how would cloning another human benefit medicine?

[Jharaski]

how would cloning another human benefit medicine?

Stem cell abundance.

[gregulus]

Stem cell abundance.

You don't need to clone people for that. Firstly, we have IVF clinics that just store their unused embryos in a freezer for years. Secondly, I assume you're refering to somatic cell nuclear transfer, which i addressed in a previous post. I don't consider this cloning.

[Iscariot]

I am utterly against cloning human beings. Anything we can do, Nature can and does do better. Humanity needs to stop and realize there are some places we shouldn't poke our noses in to.

yeah why move out of the dark ages when we can be good god-fearing anti-science sheep

Except clones would be real people. Was Dolly the sheep not a real sheep?

no she was an example

clones are tools not intended for anything more than a predetermined scientific purpose why give rights to something you're going to dissect and take apart 10 years down the road

[Kayetan]

clones are tools not intended for anything more than a predetermined scientific purpose why give rights to something you're going to dissect and take apart 10 years down the road
It's inhumane.

[Iscariot]

It's inhumane.

it's also a huge step forward for all mankind in all aspects of the medical field and several other branches of the scientific community

[MadeyAdamz]

let's clone hot girls

[Kayetan]

it's also a huge step forward for all mankind in all aspects of the medical field and several other branches of the scientific communityI thought you wanted to use them for warfare, in which case it would not at all be a step forward for mankind.

[Iscariot]

I thought you wanted to use them for warfare, in which case it would not at all be a step forward for mankind.

yes it would be

using clones with no family or history to take into account is a lot better than sending family men off to fight and die

it's called preserving culture

[gregulus]

yes it would be

using clones with no family or history to take into account is a lot better than sending family men off to fight and die

it's called preserving culture

What medical benefits would hacking open a clone give us? Also, clones would have family history. Someone has to give birth to and raise the child. You know what a clone is, right?

[lfantwister]

using clones with no family or history to take into account is a lot better than sending family men off to fight and die
wouldnt clones have consciences, and friends/army-pals, and have learned at least a little bit about the world? wouldnt a lot of them be smarter than we are? the way in which theyre conceived shouldnt bring about their end, since they are real human beings.

[Iscariot]

What medical benefits would hacking open a clone give us?

http://www.google.com/

Also, clones would have family history. Someone has to give birth to and raise the child. You know what a clone is, right?

you know what a laboratory is, right?

[Kayetan]

Using clones for warfare would only encourage war. Plus, if we wanted wars where no civilians or non-clones were harmed, what would be the point? How would any side win if you're just sending in soldiers with virtually no value.

[Silly Beach Turtles]

I can understand why some people don't agree with the morals but it's idiotic to think that they wouldn't provide good scientific data.

[lfantwister]

you know what a laboratory is, right?
someone's gotta teach them how to handle that gun and what to do when across enemy lines. They may be cloned but theyre still human and can make traditional, social connections

[Iscariot]

How would any side win?

new rules of warfare

it's not like we've never changed or adapted the art and technique of warfare you guys act like we've been doing everything the exact same way for the past 2,000 years

[lfantwister]

yay kill as many people as possible? they dont matter?

[Iscariot]

tbh most "real" humans don't matter to me either i'm just looking at ways to minimize the loss of important educated civilians/soldiers in war time

[Silly Beach Turtles]

Don't forget; that's not their only use.

You could look at it like this, they could even use a clone while it's in the fetal stages, before it's even born to harvest cells or conduct research withouth the mother having to give up her "real" child

[gregulus]

http://www.google.com/



you know what a laboratory is, right?

I'd rather you tell me, kthx.

Hahaha. Laboratory? What's this new word? What do you want to do with the child? Keep it in a cage for it's entire life? Someone has to raise it, someone has to birth it. After a couple of weeks, the fetus won't fit in a test tube or on a petry dish anymore, champ. We don't have the technology to sustain a human life in a lab :).

Nor is it morally right to exploit a living, breathing human being (because clones are human). Unless, of course, you're Josef Mengele...

[Iscariot]

you can sustain any form of life in a lab with enough funding

[lfantwister]

you can sustain any form of life in a lab with enough funding
and without human contact or connection?

You could look at it like this, they could even use a clone while it's in the fetal stages, before it's even born to harvest cells or conduct research withouth the mother having to give up her "real" child
see: abortion

tbh most "real" humans don't matter to me either i'm just looking at ways to minimize the loss of important educated civilians/soldiers in war time
now i understand!

[gregulus]

Don't forget; that's not their only use.

You could look at it like this, they could even use a clone while it's in the fetal stages, before it's even born to harvest cells or conduct research withouth the mother having to give up her "real" child

I've already been over somatic cell nuclear transfer and how that's not cloning.

[Iscariot]

and without human contact or connection?

what's the difference between a lab monkey and a lab clone

one has less hair than the other and speaks better english

[gregulus]

you can sustain any form of life in a lab with enough funding

Right, because having the technological capabilities doesn't matter at all...

:confused:

And what about childhood. I really want you to explain your logic behind this...

[Silly Beach Turtles]

look, i see where you're coming from, but basically, I look at them as scientific subjects without rights, which with neutral morals is a benefit to the whole world

then you toss in morality and it just gets all facked up :(

[gregulus]

what's the difference between a lab monkey and a lab clone

one has less hair than the other and speaks better english

That a clone is a HUMAN.

[lfantwister]

what's the difference between a lab monkey and a lab clone

one has less hair than the other and speaks better english
They're still human. The way they were conceived should be irrelevant to their livelihood. Don't humans have more rights than monkeys?

[Silly Beach Turtles]

a human that is born without rights

[Iscariot]

look, i see where you're coming from, but basically, I look at them as scientific subjects without rights, which with neutral morals is a benefit to the whole world

exactly

then you toss in morality and it just gets all facked up :(

which is why morality has no place in the scientific community

[gregulus]

look, i see where you're coming from, but basically, I look at them as scientific subjects without rights, which with neutral morals is a benefit to the whole world

then you toss in morality and it just gets all facked up :(
Validate your claim that they're just scientific subjects...

[Silly Beach Turtles]

I know but I have to put something in like that so I don't get eRaped by peoples
Heres my validation btw



IT'S A CLONE, CLONE HAS DIFFERENT RIGHTS THAN NORMAL PERSON

CLONE GO USE 4 SCIENCE

SCIENCE R GOOD

[Iscariot]

Validate your claim that they're just scientific subjects...

validate your claim that they aren't

they're created in a laboratory under scientific conditions for the purpose of meeting a greater scientific goal what about that does not = scientific subject

[sweboy]

which is why morality has no place in the scientific community

So you support for example the scientific experiments that the nazis did on humans? Why not take them up again?

[gregulus]

exactly



which is why morality has no place in the scientific community

HAHAHA. You really know absolutely nothing about the scientific community. If morallity has no place in the scientific community, why don't we test on humans now? Why are there so many regulations on animal testing so they don't live miserable, excruciating existance?

A scientific community without morals is just like Auschwitz under Dr. Mengele.

[Iscariot]

HAHAHA. You really know absolutely nothing about the scientific community. If morallity has no place in the scientific community, why don't we test on humans now? Why are there so many regulations on animal testing so they don't live miserable, excruciating existance?

A scientific community without morals is just like Auschwitz under Dr. Mengele.

then by all means bring on the swastikas at least then we'd get something accomplished

just fyi calling a jew a nazi doesn't earn you any smart points if the only correlative example you can draw is one of the third reich then i don't think i'm the one that needs to re-evaluate my stance

[Silly Beach Turtles]

We didn't say it wasn't there

it just doesn't deserve it

[gregulus]

validate your claim that they aren't

they're created in a laboratory under scientific conditions for the purpose of meeting a greater scientific goal what about that does not = scientific subject
They're then implanted into the womb of a mother to be born. They are then raised by people, brought up with the norms of society, etc.

You've also yet to state what scientific goal they'd meet. You have just said somethings about sending them into combat so people don't die. Which in itself is a flawed statement because clones would be people, therefore people do die.

[Iscariot]

They're then implanted into the womb of a mother to be born. They are then raised by people, brought up with the norms of society, etc.

You've also yet to state what scientific goal they'd meet. You have just said somethings about sending them into combat so people don't die. Which in itself is a flawed statement because clones would be people, therefore people do die.

http://www.humancloning.org/benefits.php

i just flew in from google and boy are my arms tired

[gregulus]

then by all means bring on the swastikas at least then we'd get something accomplished

just fyi calling a jew a nazi doesn't earn you any smart points if the only correlative example you can draw is one of the third reich then i don't think i'm the one that needs to re-evaluate my stance

I never called you a Nazi, I simply stated a fact that a scientific community without underlying morals is equivilent to the events at Auschwitz. You really have no idea how the scientific community works if you believe there are no morals involved right now.

[Silly Beach Turtles]

that really wasn't what he was saying

[lfantwister]

http://www.humancloning.org/benefits.php

i just flew in from google and boy are my arms tired
this doesnt take into account the fact that these are human beings. using them for things like breast implants doesnt seem right.

[Iscariot]

I never called you a Nazi, I simply stated a fact that a scientific community without underlying morals is equivilent to the events at Auschwitz. You really have no idea how the scientific community works if you believe there are no morals involved right now.

hey could you do me a favor i seem to have misplaced the post where i said that there are no morals in the modern scientific community i'm sure i left it lying around here somewhere

i said there shouldn't be

this doesnt take into account the fact that these are human beings. using them for things like breast implants doesnt seem right.

a place for everything and everything in it's place

[sweboy]

hey could you do me a favor i seem to have misplaced the post where i said that there are no morals in the modern scientific community i'm sure i left it lying around here somewhere

i said there shouldn't be


So you support for example the scientific experiments that the nazis did on humans? Why not take them up again?

[lfantwister]

a place for everything and everything in it's place
thats cute and all but it still doesnt address the fact that these are living breathing humans with independent thoughts floating around in their heads.

[Iscariot]

So you support for example the scientific experiments that the nazis did on humans? Why not take them up again?

i don't care if those experiments are being performed on clones i just see it as a waste of resources to perform those experiments on actual educated socially important individuals

thats cute and all but it still doesnt address the fact that these are living breathing humans with independent thoughts floating around in their heads.

people only think what you allow them to think tbh

[lfantwister]

i don't care if those experiments are being performed on clones i just see it as a waste of resources to perform those experiments on actual educated socially important individuals
Why cant clones be educated socially important? they clearly have the capacity. preventing them from doing that is just cruel
people only think what you allow them to think tbh
so they would have no education at all? suppose they were fighting in a war. who would teach them how to fire the gun or who to fire against? wouldnt they become rebellious from the social order, realising they're the same as other people but conceived differently? that doesnt take education.

[Iscariot]

Why cant clones be educated socially important? they clearly have the capacity. preventing them from doing that is just cruel

that isn't their purpose upon creation

[sweboy]

i don't care if those experiments are being performed on clones i just see it as a waste of resources to perform those experiments on actual educated socially important individuals

So it's ok if you kidnap non-cloned infants and keep them in labs (without wasting resources on them) until they are ready to be experimented on?

[gregulus]

http://www.humancloning.org/benefits.php

i just flew in from google and boy are my arms tired

Reverse aging? So no one dies? Talk about over population..
Cloning heart cells can be done with stem cells.
IVF clinics are abundant.
Plastic surgery isn't really a necessity.
Breast implants aren't necessary.
Defective genes are being studied extensively.
All those genetic diseases mentioned are being studied extensively
I don't see how it's possible to clone an exact match for an individual's organs. Unless we clone every individual, of course.
CF, cancer being studied extensively
Spinal chord injury can be taken care of with stem cells

I think i've already established that using somatic cell nuclear transfer to obtain stem cells containing DNA for a specific disease to be studied isn't cloning...


Also, please explain why morals have no place in science? What if someone decided to start testing on you? Would that not be wrong?

[lfantwister]

that isn't their purpose upon creation
you're going to predetermine the purposes of human beings? can you predetermine their thoughts and actions too? how about their feelings? Jesus man these are human beings. It Doesnt matter how they were conceived.

[Iscariot]

So it's ok if you kidnap non-cloned infants and keep them in labs (without wasting resources on them) until they are ready to be experimented on?

why do that when you can engineer a clone that ages faster than the norm

[lfantwister]

why do that when you can engineer a clone that ages faster than the norm
morally you would agree with that?

[Iscariot]

i don't really care to be honest it doesn't harm me

[lfantwister]

i don't really care to be honest it doesn't harm me
and maybe if you had been cloned? or if you were the parent of that non-cloned kidnapped child?

[Iscariot]

i'm not so what does it matter

[gregulus]

i don't really care to be honest it doesn't harm me

Well, if there's no sort of morality involved in science, someone could start testing on you, therefore potentially harming you. Would you care then?

[lfantwister]

i'm not so what does it matter
mhwahaha maybe you are

okay not so funny

[gregulus]

i'm not so what does it matter

What about the people who have been cloned. What if you're the person who gave birth to the clone you want to test on? I think it's been established that clones have to have parents...we are unable to fully develop a human being without it being in a womb..

[Iscariot]

lol all these 'what ifs' are a waste of thought what if isn't what is

[MadeyAdamz]

we should clone the cutest dogs

[Silly Beach Turtles]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject

[gregulus]

lol all these 'what ifs' are a waste of thought what if isn't what is

Your attitude is basically "if it doesn't effect me then it's ok." If that's your attitude, why don't they just start testing on human's now. As long as YOU don't know them I guess it's OK.

[sweboy]

I don't really know what you're on about here Jared, but there's little point in arguing for something if you don't support human rights when the rest of us do.

EDIT:
if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject

Lols.

[gregulus]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject

Then you don't you just volunteer now to be the subject of scientific testing...

[Kayetan]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subjectCould you explain why?

[gregulus]

I don't really know what you're on about here Jared, but there's little point in arguing for something if you don't support human rights when the rest of us do.

EDIT:


Lols.

Hey, as long as it doesn't effect him...

If there shouldn't be morality in science, then why in war, why in general?

[lfantwister]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject
it doesnt matter if you are a clone or not, youre still a human being. Go volunteer!

[MadeyAdamz]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject

You can talk. I doubt you would actually do it.

[sexymuffin]

why not raise the clones to make them want to be subjects so that way we're really not doing anyone any harm

i mean they wanted it, we just conditioned them to want it

[Kayetan]

Is that a joke?

[lfantwister]

But what do you do if they don't want it by some anomaly

Do you make them do it or do you let them make their own decisions

[Iskandar]

I can't see any drawbacks to it yet.

[Tillius]

if i was a clone and i had a choice between forwarding science through studies on me and living my life I'd choose the being the test subject

That's kinda easy to say when you're not the test subject in question.


And seeing as you have the same rights now as you would as a clone...what's stopping you from doing it now?

[Otherside]

brave new world no thanks

[Iskandar]

brave new world no thanksTerrible book, that.

As if human cloning will mean the end of civilization as we know it and the creation of a brave new world exactly as described in the book.

[Otherside]

what

there was no mention of the end of civilization in brave new world

have you read the book

[Iskandar]

what

there was no mention of the end of civilization in brave new world

have you read the bookThe whole point is that the civilization we know will be replaced by the brave new world. I have read the book, and it's retarded alarmism.

[Otherside]

that's not really the whole point but ok if thats how you wanna take it, but it's not a completely absurd premise like you say it is, especially since it was written in 1932

[Iskandar]

that's not really the whole point but ok if thats how you wanna take it, but it's not a completely absurd premise like you say it is, especially since it was written in 1932That was the whole point. Huxley's message was stupid and reactionary: If we don't check the progress of modern society, it will turn into what my book predicts. Guess what? Now women have access to birth control. Big whoop.

[Iscariot]

I don't really know what you're on about here Jared, but there's little point in arguing for something if you don't support human rights when the rest of us do.

of course my mistake why argue for an opposing point of view if the current majority of people in the discussion disagree with it i mean jeez it's almost like there's two sides to the argument or something

[italic zero]

That was the whole point. Huxley's message was stupid and reactionary: If we don't check the progress of modern society, it will turn into what my book predicts. Guess what? Now women have access to birth control. Big whoop.
I'm not sure you're wrong about what he was doing, but I think that it's useful to take an idea to its logical extreme, even if you don't believe it will happen.

[sexymuffin]

of course my mistake why argue for an opposing point of view if the current majority of people in the discussion disagree with it i mean jeez it's almost like there's two sides to the argument or something

ahahahahaha you slay me


two sides to an argument


ahaha


ha

[Iscariot]

i no rite chance

[<3<3<3]

Cloning humans for scientific studies is a terrible idea!

It's no different than slavery. Societies a few hundred years ago regarded people from Africa as less than human, and made them slaves even though they had the same physical make-up of what is a human.

What's the difference with a clone? They are an exact replica of a human. They are no less, and should not be treated any less than how any other human should be treated.

Cloning organs and body parts I'm 100% for, but cloning conscience life is just a bad idea.

[Tillius]

But why, everytime cloning is mentioned, does slavery have to be brought into the conversation?

Clones would have the same rights as you or me, so slavery and scientific experiments are kinda out of the question.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

About the above Brave New World bashing: it's a work of fiction, not a philosophical treatise so don't judge it as such.

why not raise the clones to make them want to be subjects so that way we're really not doing anyone any harm

i mean they wanted it, we just conditioned them to want it

Omg the part of my brain that computes the concept of free will is overloading lol.

[<3<3<3]

But why, everytime cloning is mentioned, does slavery have to be brought into the conversation?

Clones would have the same rights as you or me, so slavery and scientific experiments are kinda out of the question.

I was talking about cloning humans for science's sake.

[GreyHam]

full body cloning? no

clonng of organs for transplant? yes

however the extension of cloning technology means its inevitable that full cloning will become a reality which brings about the dilemma of which is the greater evil

[pedro durruti]

That was the whole point. Huxley's message was stupid and reactionary: If we don't check the progress of modern society, it will turn into what my book predicts. Guess what? Now women have access to birth control. Big whoop.
What italic zero said; his message was a hyperbole. I mean, you have to remember that Brave New World is fiction.

[spitfirejunky]

I'm for it so long as it's heavily regulated and the clones receive their due rights.

But then I'm not sure why it'd be necessary.

[sweboy]

of course my mistake why argue for an opposing point of view if the current majority of people in the discussion disagree with it i mean jeez it's almost like there's two sides to the argument or something

The point still is that you're arguing for something completely different; the abolition of human rights. Thus you can't make any points against someone who supports human rights, and he can't make any points against you, because you're deriving your arguments from completely different premises.

[metalkingtiger]

I'm for it but as someone said above it has to be thoroughly watched over. If you can clone a human, imagine what some psycho can do with producing a super strand of some disease and using it for Bio warfare.

[gregulus]

I'm for it but as someone said above it has to be thoroughly watched over. If you can clone a human, imagine what some psycho can do with producing a super strand of some disease and using it for Bio warfare.

And I ask again, what redeeming purpose does cloning a human being have that aren't being actively pursued in other methods? Don't say stem cells because I've established that somatic cell nuclear transfer doesn't classify as cloning.

[Dr Hooch]

I'm not for them physically cloning a person and making it live and everything, but I'm alll for helping humanity using the cloning technology to cure horrific diseases and the suchlike

[peeted]

I see no reason to clone human beings but i'm not against it on any moral grounds. I'm all for cloning organs and stem sells etc.

[MadeyAdamz]

clones would be kewl like it is the year 2020 or something

[Tillius]

full body cloning? no

clonng of organs for transplant? yes

however the extension of cloning technology means its inevitable that full cloning will become a reality which brings about the dilemma of which is the greater evil

And what would be the greater evil?

[Chrysostom]

yeah why move out of the dark ages when we can be good god-fearing anti-science sheep

Yes that was totally my message. Grrr...science bad, definitely what I wanted to communicate, well done on spotting that. Also, way to assume things about somebody you've never met. Good job man.

[Miek]

How about this, just out of curiousity, how many of you would be against full clones that are braindead, and/or can't feel pain

just out of curiousity, not saying it would ever happen

[GreyHam]

i would be well against it

why would u create such a sick perversion of humanity lol

tillius: full human cloning. for starters theres no need for it, we cans till biologically and naturally reproduce, which is, lets be fair, far more fun than the cloning process

[lfantwister]

How about this, just out of curiousity, how many of you would be against full clones that are braindead, and/or can't feel pain

just out of curiousity, not saying it would ever happen
if theyre not human go for it

[halfdeadhippo]

I voted unsure, because I haven't really thought about it all that much. The only practical application I can think of is for medicine, but I can't think of a medical application that's also ethical. I guess they could have some sort of custom job for parents who want twins but didn't luck out the natural way.

[Tillius]

i would be well against it

why would u create such a sick perversion of humanity lol

tillius: full human cloning. for starters theres no need for it, we cans till biologically and naturally reproduce, which is, lets be fair, far more fun than the cloning process

:lol:

Indeed it is.

BUT, what exactly makes it the "greater evil"? I mean, just because there's not exactly a need for it, do you think that makes it wrong?

I'm not trying to argue, by the way, just trying to fully understand your point of view.

[Reaganista]

yeah i'm for it.

[Volumnius Flush]

I have really been into Alias lately and seeing all the possibilities of cloning, Irina Derevko, Arvin Sloane, Lauren Reed, the misconception, the lies, and betrayal it leads to, I can't support this technology.

[Smokey D]

why would u create such a sick perversion of humanity lol

Assuming you could create a clone that had none of the problems other clones have exhibited, I see no problem with it. I don't understand how it would be a perversion of humanity -- the clone would still possess all the characteristics of a human.

[gregulus]

Assuming you could create a clone that had none of the problems other clones have exhibited, I see no problem with it. I don't understand how it would be a perversion of humanity -- the clone would still possess all the characteristics of a human.

I still don't see the point of what cloning an entire human being would be good for. Stem cells, sure, but that's done by somatic cell nuclear transfer, which I don't consider cloning.

[Dr Hooch]

I have really been into Alias lately and seeing all the possibilities of cloning, Irina Derevko, Arvin Sloane, Lauren Reed, the misconception, the lies, and betrayal it leads to, I can't support this technology.

Yeah after seeing that film jurassic park i don't see how anybody could think this was a good idea

[c00kieKrisp]

we should clone the best guitarsts and stuff like kirk hammett and that dude from slipknot

[Tillius]

Are you kidding?

I mean, I like Slipknot and all............but BEST guitarists?

I seriously hope that was a joke.

[c00kieKrisp]

well it's a good idea isn't it?


we could make super humans they can already improve their proformance with steroids

[gregulus]

well it's a good idea isn't it?


we could make super humans they can already improve their proformance with steroids

except that clones are in no way "super human," and steroids wouldn't increase musical ability. gg.

[Smokey D]

I still don't see the point of what cloning an entire human being would be good for. Stem cells, sure, but that's done by somatic cell nuclear transfer, which I don't consider cloning.

Well, what I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily bad not that it's actively good.

[gregulus]

Well, what I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily bad not that it's actively good.

Yeah, if there was a valid reason for it then I'd say do it. However, I've yet to be presented with one :(

[Smokey D]

I dunno. I consider it as morally neutral as making a baby (provided you could ensure the baby/clone had no congenital defects).

[gregulus]

I dunno. I consider it as morally neutral as making a baby (provided you could ensure the baby/clone had no congenital defects).
But why would you want an exact copy of someone else?

[Danger Bird]

If you look back through literature, through Frankenstein and Rime of the Ancient Mariner and Brave New World, etc., humanity has felt that it was on the brink of its own destruction through the means of science for hundreds of years. You know why? Because people fear change. Cloning will not be the end of humanity.

[Smokey D]

But why would you want an exact copy of someone else?

a) Why not?
b) Cloning doesn't guarantee an exact copy of anyone. It produces a genetic copy, but that's not the same thing.

[lfantwister]

b) Cloning doesn't guarantee an exact copy of anyone. It produces a genetic copy, but that's not the same thing.
that way psychologists can study nature/nurture more?

[Miek]

That's a good point.

Make two clones, raise them in identical enviroments, and see how they develop.

[pedro durruti]

Why would using clones for psychological study be any different from using natural babies?

[lfantwister]

they have identical DNA, so you can compare how various environments affect them. To clarify the roles of nature and environment basically

[AA-12]

100% Banned.

Humans are worthless in the first place, why make more?

[Danger Bird]

You guys remember they can (and have) used identical twins for such studies? And they actually developed to have lots of similar characteristics such as hairstyle, preferred beer brand, history of divorce (to wives with the same name), etc.

[Smokey D]

100% Banned.

Humans are worthless in the first place, why make more?

Humans aren't worthless.


that way psychologists can study nature/nurture more?

Well, that wouldn't be the only reason we might use cloning, but it'd be interesting nonetheless.



Make two clones, raise them in identical enviroments, and see how they develop.

It is very nearly impossible to produce similar enough environments.

You guys remember they can (and have) used identical twins for such studies? And they actually developed to have lots of similar characteristics such as hairstyle, preferred beer brand, history of divorce (to wives with the same name), etc.

I've heard annecdotes but I've never come across real evidence.

[gregulus]

You guys remember they can (and have) used identical twins for such studies? And they actually developed to have lots of similar characteristics such as hairstyle, preferred beer brand, history of divorce (to wives with the same name), etc.
I've read studies that claim personality is up to 2/3 genetic...

[pedro durruti]

Those twins studies are conflicting. Some have had remarkable similarities despite separation, while others have had dramatically different personalities.
they have identical DNA, so you can compare how various environments affect them. To clarify the roles of nature and environment basically
But is it really right to exploit a human being like that?

[lfantwister]

But is it really right to exploit a human being like that?
It's not as though you're putting through rigorous testing against their will. You're simply observing the differences between the two

[Smokey D]

And, as I said, that's not the only reason we might want to clone someone.

[Reaganista]

obviously we would clone a person because they were really awesome and we wanted more

that should be self-evident I would think

Make two clones, raise them in identical enviroments, and see how they develop.
this would be a good way to illustrate the problems of applying scientific method to behaviorism