My solution to the emo/screamo confusion/debate

[AkeJay02]

Okay, so I am getting really tired of people talking crap about bands like Hawthorne Heights, From First to Last, Story of the Year, etc. After thinking about it a bit, and arguing with several people, I think I've come up with the solution to this debate, and here it is:

Emo has come in waves, and this is clear. What began as a small offshoot of punk rock has evolved to a completely different style of music.

Though I cannot really decribe the waves, they are very distinct. For instance, I consider the band Rites of Spring to be of the first wave. Then, I would say that bands like Saetia are of the second wave. Bands like Circle Takes the Square and Hot Cross I would place in the third wave, and bands like Hawthorne Heights and From First to Last are from the newest wave. I know I may have left out a few waves, but I think I caught the most distinct of them.

To anyone who is going to come on here and be like "you need to listen to the original stuff," I just want to say that I hate Hawthorne Heights, I don't like From First to Last's new stuff, and I love Circle Takes the Square, Hot Cross, Saetia, Mikoto, and many of those types of bands.

[Matt?]

um. hm. uhh.

nope

nice effort though

[AkeJay02]

Why not?

For future posts, don't say things like "no." Explain it to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but nothing proves it less than just saying "no."

[Matt?]

hawthorne hights and stuff aren't a wave of emo. there basically are "waves" when people talk about it already but it's not like ska waves.

i wouldn't use the term wave

[Luxor]

no care

mikoto wouldn't be so bad if ray just did all the vocals. i don't get it.

[Matt?]

yeah big ry is right anyways

nobody really cares about the screamo confusion actually

[AkeJay02]

no care

mikoto wouldn't be so bad if ray just did all the vocals. i don't get it.

Though I do not mind posts like this, please try to limit the amount of "I like" or "I hate" this band posts. That's not what this thread is about.

[AkeJay02]

hawthorne hights and stuff aren't a wave of emo. there basically are "waves" when people talk about it already but it's not like ska waves.

i wouldn't use the term wave

I don't understand what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

[Matt?]

it's pretty simple. there are different eras of emo. it's pretty acknoledged

hawthrone hights type bands aren't emo so they don't get a "wave"

besides that, your idea is basically already used without the wave thing, although some of the categories of bands you used could've been more era defining and it's more in depth than what you stated

[santi3hg]

Those bands can not be considered a wave. I think the definition of a wave would be that the latter wave is influenced by previous waves and either add something or w/e.

However in this case, those bands can not be considered a wave, they posses nothing of the sort of real emo.

[cobert]

nah brah HH isnt emo brah theres not really a 4th wave if you want to use those terms brah also there wasnt any confusion brah.

EDIT: Basically what the last 2 dudes said brah.

[AkeJay02]

Those bands can not be considered a wave. I think the definition of a wave would be that the latter wave is influenced by previous waves and either add something or w/e.

However in this case, those bands can not be considered a wave, they posses nothing of the sort of real emo.

Listen to the content of Saetia's lyrics, then listen to the content of lyrics from bands like HH and FF2L and SOTY (sorry about the abbreviations; why must these bands have such long freaking names). I do feel, however, that HH has gone far overboard (2 albums and not a single song that isn't about a girl).

One of the backbones of emo music is the driving by the guitars, which a lot of these bands have.

Though I haven't listed a lot of similarities, you cannot say that they aren't there.

[AkeJay02]

it's pretty simple. there are different eras of emo. it's pretty acknoledged

hawthrone hights type bands aren't emo so they don't get a "wave"

besides that, your idea is basically already used without the wave thing, although some of the categories of bands you used could've been more era defining and it's more in depth than what you stated

Please don't say things like "Hawthorne Heights isn't emo, so they don't get a wave." That phrase proves nothing, and isn't helpful at all.

[cobert]

I wouldnt say that because they have lyrics trying to be like saetia theyre emo brah Im sure you could make a connection with any band to any other band brah so these arguments are just like saying all music is emo because its emotional brah it just doesnt work because it applies to a ton of different types of music brah.

[Matt?]

it's just a fact. you can think what you want but you will still not be right.

i am not trying to change your oppinions on anything, just pointing out some facts.

[AkeJay02]

I wouldnt say that because they have lyrics trying to be like saetia theyre emo brah Im sure you could make a connection with any band to any other band brah so these arguments are just like saying all music is emo because its emotional brah it just doesnt work because it applies to a ton of different types of music brah.

That is a good point. I was thinking about it, and I left a little bit out in my last post.

The waves that I've presented are related, I've just left out a little bit. Because a lot of people consider (and I agree) that the band Further Seems Forever are of the emo genre, and the singer's other project, Dashboard Confessional, is also considered emo, I believe that there is a connection between Dashboard and the more recent bands that I've mentioned in my last post (like Story of the Year).

[cobert]

A lot of people consider FSF emo because those people dont know about the history of emo brah because theyve been force fed MTV acoustic crap brah so their ideas and opinions are skewed brah.

[Matt?]

ok. it doesn't matter because further seems forever isn't emo. also defining a genre isn't like playing 6 degrees of seperation with bands.

[AkeJay02]

I really don't think MTV even has anything to do with music anymore, but I can see your point. However, I do consider FSF to be emo. It just sounds like it to me.

If not emo, what do you classify these bands as?
Please, no "I classify these bands as crap" type posts. Seen them before, and they are a waste of space.

[IgniteYourAvail]

Though I do not mind posts like this, please try to limit the amount of "I like" or "I hate" this band posts. That's not what this thread is about.
Please don't say things like "Hawthorne Heights isn't emo, so they don't get a wave." That phrase proves nothing, and isn't helpful at all.

Haha wow this guy must not lurk this forum much at all.

[Matt?]

pop punk, post hardcore, bad, or a crossbreed between the three generally

[AkeJay02]

Haha wow this guy must not lurk this forum much at all.

what does that mean?

[cobert]

Dont be so prissy brah we know how to post brah.

Im not sure what to classify FSF brah but just because you dont know what they are you cant shove them into emo brah for the same reason I said before with the broad similarities brah.

[cobert]

defining a genre isn't like playing 6 degrees of seperation with bands.

Best point so far brah.

[Matt?]

it means you walked into no mans land with a target on your back

thanks cob

[AkeJay02]

pop punk, post hardcore, bad, or a crossbreed between the three generally

First, Pop punk is Blink 182 and Green Day. Post Hardcore does make a little bit of sense, except it is easily consedered to be just a type of emo due to it's relation to punk music.

God Dammit, can we please stay away from the "this music is of the genre: bad" posts. I'm trying to keep this as a spirited debate, not a whining argument.

[IgniteYourAvail]

Well you come into a hardcore/emo forum telling us that all these pop punk bands are emo bands when this argument has been had a million times.

[cobert]

Post-hardcore is kind of a stretch even for those bands brah and those bands are just kind of straight up rock with shitty screaming brah.

Id also like to take some time to say that The Moon Is Down by Further Seems Forever is kind of a hidden pleasure of mine.

[Matt?]

well obviously you know more about genres than we do so i mean why even discuss this

[IgniteYourAvail]

well obviously you know more about genres than we do so i mean why even discuss this

srsly

[AkeJay02]

well obviously you know more about genres than we do so i mean why even discuss this

Wow. Everytime someone tries to have a spirited debate on this site, someone seems to have to resort to the attitude of a sarcastic 12-year old arguing with his mom.

[IgniteYourAvail]

Man, shut up.

[AkeJay02]

Well you come into a hardcore/emo forum telling us that all these pop punk bands are emo bands when this argument has been had a million times.

I would've looked for it, but I wouldn't of known what to search for to find these posts. If you give me link to that thread (or those threads), I would gladly shut the hell up and read them.

[Matt?]

i don't know how to sway you from you misguided views

this isn't a debate, because it isn't really debatable. go ahead and view things in your own way nobody here or in the punk scene cares about this stuff, but i mean you still won't be correct

[IgniteYourAvail]

But bitching on an internet forum sure is going to help for him

[AkeJay02]

Man, shut up.

This, too, is a waste of time. What a good way to settle a dispute. This is what people do so that they can walk away with a sense of dignity. I have yet to resort to this as a means of discussion...ever...in any post in any thread.

[cobert]

k brah but really there isnt much of an argument since almost everyone that has heard of emo bands like City of Caterpillar, Saetia, and You and I understand that From First To Last isnt emo and pretty much everyone that hasnt heard of CoC / Saetia / you and I all believe that From First to Last is emo brah so pretty much the only ones agreeing to bands like FFTL being emo are ones that have no clue where it came from brah they just assume since thats what Alternative Press told them brah, these people also believe that Drop Dead, Gorgeous is the best new hardcore band braj so maybe that puts it into perspective brahbrah.


































Brah.

[AkeJay02]

i don't know how to sway you from you misguided views

this isn't a debate, because it isn't really debatable. go ahead and view things in your own way nobody here or in the punk scene cares about this stuff, but i mean you still won't be correct

Yeah, except every single time someone even mentions bands like this as emo, everyone "emo kid" or whatever freaks out about it.

[Matt?]

bands like what?

[IgniteYourAvail]

k brah but really there isnt much of an argument since almost everyone that has heard of emo bands like City of Caterpillar, Saetia, and You and I understand that From First To Last isnt emo and pretty much everyone that hasnt heard of CoC / Saetia / you and I all believe that From First to Last is emo brah so pretty much the only ones agreeing to bands like FFTL being emo are ones that have no clue where it came from brah they just assume since thats what Alternative Press told them brah, these people also believe that Drop Dead, Gorgeous is the best new hardcore band braj so maybe that puts it into perspective brahbrah.


































Brah.

Closure, brah.

[IgniteYourAvail]

Yeah, except every single time someone even mentions bands like this as emo, everyone "emo kid" or whatever freaks out about it.

So now you're saying that because kids look like the "emo" FASHION type, that the bands they call emo ARE emo? You're making no sense.

[Matt?]

if i didn't initially think that you were just confused about things, then i would've just ignored this. i figured maybe you'd be able to figure out when you were wrong. whatever dude.

[AkeJay02]

k brah but really there isnt much of an argument since almost everyone that has heard of emo bands like City of Caterpillar, Saetia, and You and I understand that From First To Last isnt emo and pretty much everyone that hasnt heard of CoC / Saetia / you and I all believe that From First to Last is emo brah so pretty much the only ones agreeing to bands like FFTL being emo are ones that have no clue where it came from brah they just assume since thats what Alternative Press told them brah, these people also believe that Drop Dead, Gorgeous is the best new hardcore band braj so maybe that puts it into perspective brahbrah.

But I listen to Saetia, Hot Cross, Circle Takes the Square, and others like that, and I think that these new bands are emo.

[cobert]

Youre only reasoning for listing the newer bands as emo though brah were pretty weak and pretty much broken by poiting out that you could then connect any band to emo brah, so now youre kind of just being stubborn brah.

[Jessizzle]

and if its not emo, they'll try again another day, with something called scremo it never seems to go away.

[santi3hg]

Cob, there hasn't been one post where you didn't say brah. Whatsup with that brah?

And honestly man, this isn't debatable. Its just known that those modern bands are not emo. They don't have that influence and they certainly don't list those bands as ones they grew up with.

[an0therface]

You're being ignorant and stubborn here, you come into a forum full of people who talk about EMO and have been for a while. The point that the bands you've mentioned aren't emo has been established over and again.

If you can't take it in an accept it, then what was the point of coming on here to ask the question.

Hawthorne Heights and From First to Last are just bubblegum-punk or pop-punk. There's no DYI aspects of the bands, they don't(hardly ever) play with hardcore or real emo bands, sound nothing like them, are hardly on the same or similar labels to emo bands. There's plenty of reasons to not associate them with real emo.

I bet if you asked the bands them selves most of them would agree they aren't emo bands.

Open your mind.

[AkeJay02]

bands like what?

Sorry I disappeared for a while. My dog knocked the power switch for the outlets for my PC, and I just felt like I should eat something before going to sleep, which is what I'm about to do. If anyone wants to make some posts, I'll look at them probably in the morning. As far as the debate goes, here's what I've gathered from the post so far:

1.) Most people from the emo community are very offended by much nonsense.

2.) Bands like SOTY, HH, and FFTL (again, sorry for the abbreviations), can be considered to be post hardcore. However, since I believe that post hardcore is a direct offshoot of emo, I believe that they can be considered emo, just a different form.

3.) No matter how hard you try, you cannot have a true discussion when people disagree with you. There will always be someone, or some group of people, that will say rediculous things and get everyone nowhere.

edit: Just to add something as a reply to the last post, if you ask (as I have) "true" emo bands as to their genre, most of them refuse to be emo as well.

[an0therface]

That's because they'll probably tell you they're hardcore bands. I doubt it would matter much to them anyway.

[cobert]

Cob, there hasn't been one post where you didn't say brah. Whatsup with that brah?

And honestly man, this isn't debatable. Its just known that those modern bands are not emo. They don't have that influence and they certainly don't list those bands as ones they grew up with.


Hahaha, I dont know, I didnt really take this thread seriously so I just felt like saying brah.

and if its not emo, they'll try again another day, with something called scremo it never seems to go away.

You mustve missed the he-man woman haters club sign out front lololol

Yeah, except every single time someone even mentions bands like this as emo, everyone "emo kid" or whatever freaks out about it.

Because its wrong, brah.

1.) Most people from the emo community are very offended by much nonsense.

2.) Bands like SOTY, HH, and FFTL (again, sorry for the abbreviations), can be considered to be post hardcore. However, since I believe that post hardcore is a direct offshoot of emo, I believe that they can be considered emo, just a different form.

3.) No matter how hard you try, you cannot have a true discussion when people disagree with you. There will always be someone, or some group of people, that will say rediculous things and get everyone nowhere.

1.) Yeah brah.
2.) Barely brah, more pop-punk than anything.
3.) Im pretty sure most discussions are founded on disagreement brah, if everyone agreed there wouldnt be any posts brah.

[AkeJay02]

Actually, when I asked Hot Cross, they just said that they are a "good music" band.

[cobert]

Because if any emo band said they were emo they would lose all credibility brah because people associate emo with Hawthorne Heights brah.

[AkeJay02]

So now you're saying that because kids look like the "emo" FASHION type, that the bands they call emo ARE emo? You're making no sense.

I didn't say anything about fashion. I guess I should've just said "people of the emo community." I was just trying to save time.

[AkeJay02]

Because if any emo band said they were emo they would lose all credibility brah because people associate emo with Hawthorne Heights brah.

I wonder why...

[cobert]

Because Hawthorne Heights are 'generic pop band A' brah so nobody wants to be grouped in with them brah.

[bleep_bloop]

You're being ignorant and stubborn here, you come into a forum full of people who talk about EMO and have been for a while. The point that the bands you've mentioned aren't emo has been established over and again.

If you can't take it in an accept it, then what was the point of coming on here to ask the question.

Hawthorne Heights and From First to Last are just bubblegum-punk or pop-punk. There's no DYI aspects of the bands, they don't(hardly ever) play with hardcore or real emo bands, sound nothing like them, are hardly on the same or similar labels to emo bands. There's plenty of reasons to not associate them with real emo.

I bet if you asked the bands them selves most of them would agree they aren't emo bands.

Open your mind.

this

[santi3hg]

Either way its all punk derived. Though post-hardcore I would argue no, it does not suit those bands. Just of the bands that formed post-hardcore into the genre it is, and their previous bands and etc.

Just in general they are punk or pop punk in my opinion.

[Left Shoe]

i dont think this guy is going to get it. i mean he listens to the right music, but lumping bear vs shark and HH, FFTL, and SOTY into the same category is kind of gross.

[SunnyDayRealEstateAM]

Which wave would A Flock of Seagulls be?

[Concubine]

http://www.mesaverde.co.uk/mp3/

read that and then come back here plzkthx

[santi3hg]

Wait does anybody realize we are on the brink of something great?!

We might be the first ones in the internetz world to define and coin the waves of emo!

[bleep_bloop]

omgz

[SunnyDayRealEstateAM]

This guy's thinking is revolutionary

[margin0walker]

****ing genious

[IgniteYourAvail]

3.) No matter how hard you try, you cannot have a true discussion when people disagree with you. There will always be someone, or some group of people, that will say rediculous things and get everyone nowhere.

I lol'd

[Matt?]

HAHAHAHAHHAHA YOU ASKED HOT CROSS

they aren't even emoooo hahaha

+ a million other reasons that they would be bad to ask

[cobert]

Which wave would A Flock of Seagulls be?


New Wave.

[Luxor]

lol at him asking hot cross if they're emo. that is so lame.

I don't even care about this **** anymore. Someone wants to call From First To Last emo, then go ahead. What I consider to be the actual genre of emo, I just call hardcore anyway.

[bottlerocket]

^ Ryan's hit the nail on the head, as usual.

Who cares? Be a badass and just lol at the idiots or something.

[AkeJay02]

HAHAHAHAHHAHA YOU ASKED HOT CROSS

they aren't even emoooo hahaha

+ a million other reasons that they would be bad to ask

Hot Cross is a very well-known emo band. I didn't ask them if they were emo, I asked them what genre they classified themselves into.

[margin0walker]

are you actually reading the other posts in response to your posts?
just wondering.

[Matt?]

i don't care dude. hot cross isn't emo

[santi3hg]

They are 3rd wave straight edge emocore. Duh.

[Wow]

Hot Cross is a very well-known emo band. I didn't ask them if they were emo, I asked them what genre they classified themselves into.


Hot Cross = Post-Hardcore. L2emo.

[Dextomethorphan]

I just read all four pages of this...and this is one of the funnier lawlz I've seen here in a while.

When this gets boring, someone is going to ban him, right?

[cobert]

No, theres not really a need for a ban.

[AkeJay02]

For real. Ban somebody because you are that bored. Remember that time when you said: "I've just started smoking weed, and I'm trying to find music to listen to." That's just about as dumb as this is, isn't it?

[BuddyBigsby]

1. Major LOL at you saying that Saetia was the second wave. Because nothing happened between the DC Explosion and "screamo"?

2. The truth is those bands like Hawthorne Heights etc. - if anything, are an umpteenth generation descendant of emo. Maybe the bands that influenced the bands that influenced them had some ties to emo, but if you're going to tell me that From First to Last are influenced by Moss Icon then you're ****ing crazy. Its like the "one drop" rule but for shitty music.

[Wow]

Scott do you remember when you used to troll the Pop-Punk forum with me, Chris, and Jon (BridgetoSolace/whateverhisoldnamewas). Good times.

[Dextomethorphan]

Remember that time when you said: "I've just started smoking weed, and I'm trying to find music to listen to." That's just about as dumb as this is, isn't it?

No, I don't remember saying that, although I probably did at some point, but it's a little more than creepy that you either remember that or took the time to look back into my posts. Also, I don't think that my asking for recommendations would compare to you claiming to hold the "solution to the emo/screamo debate" lmao

[Matt?]

seriously though, and this is 100% sincere. i think you're pretty close to making this emo debate explainable to the masses. i mean you might not have it exactly but you are closer than most people cause at least your thinking.



















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































jk rofling

[santi3hg]

Lawlllz

[BuddyBigsby]

Scott do you remember when you used to troll the Pop-Punk forum with me, Chris, and Jon (BridgetoSolace/whateverhisoldnamewas). Good times.

Do you remember when that never happened and I have no idea who "Jon" is?

EDIT: Unless you're talking about that one thread I made when I discovered level-plane stuff as a naive barely pubescent dorkus. I wouldn't call that "trolling" though.

[cbmartinez]

I didn't bother reading this thread because Cob saying brah just invalidated everything.

[cobert]

Hahaha, I dont know, I didnt really take this thread seriously so I just felt like saying brah.

Pretty much.

[cbmartinez]

Well, it honestly annoyed me to the point where I wanted to punch something.

[margin0walker]

i thought it was funny brah

[Wow]

Do you remember when that never happened and I have no idea who "Jon" is?

EDIT: Unless you're talking about that one thread I made when I discovered level-plane stuff as a naive barely pubescent dorkus. I wouldn't call that "trolling" though.


Trolling was used incorrectly, but if I remember, you, me, chris, and jon, (who's name used to be bleedthesky or something) correcting people in the pop-punk forum on the topic of emo back in the day, although you frequented it a lot less than us. ;o

[cobert]

Well, it honestly annoyed me to the point where I wanted to punch something.

Well its not like you missed very much.

[cbmartinez]

tr00

Trolling was used incorrectly, but if I remember, you, me, chris, and jon, (who's name used to be bleedthesky or something) correcting people in the pop-punk forum on the topic of emo back in the day, although you frequented it a lot less than us. ;o

ROFL you had your raping camels avatar that you made when you were drunk and you started dropping Indian Summer and I was like "wtf is this kid, but he rules"

[santi3hg]

Well its not like you missed very much.

Cept the brah's, brah.

[cobert]

Basically, brah.

[pixiesfanyo]

The answer is here.. http://rateyourmusic.com/list/pixiesfanyo/a_how_to_guide_to_emotional_hardcore

[BuddyBigsby]

Come on dude, Gatefold?

[pixiesfanyo]

Importance. Not actual quality.

[Wow]

tr00



ROFL you had your raping camels avatar that you made when you were drunk and you started dropping Indian Summer and I was like "wtf is this kid, but he rules"


Oh sweet jesus, I didn't even remember that avatar. I just now realised how long ago that really was.

[srt-4]

The answer is here.. http://rateyourmusic.com/list/pixiesfanyo/a_how_to_guide_to_emotional_hardcore
nice choice including portrait. that picture is from the discography cd not all my chances, though.

[pixiesfanyo]

Yeah, that is a RYM issue. I didn't upload the album.

[whiteminority]

Importance. Not actual quality.

A) That album rules.

B) For importance you should of put Chaos is Me.

[AkeJay02]

Okay, so I'm not going to post anymore in this thread. I guess this is not a topic that can be taken seriously, or defended seriously. That's cool, though. I'm going to stick to my way of thinking, as is everyone else. That's usually how it works on the Internet anyway. I guess I should've learned my lesson.

But I really do wish that people could've taken a little bit of seriousness into mind when dealing with this. I wasn't trying to be lame or anything like that. All most of the posters on this site do is talk down on other people's opinions without any reason at all. That's crappy, dude.

Oh well.

[srt-4]

your opinion sucks and i won't take you seriously

[cobert]

Okay, so I'm not going to post anymore in this thread. I guess this is not a topic that can be taken seriously, or defended seriously. That's cool, though. I'm going to stick to my way of thinking, as is everyone else. That's usually how it works on the Internet anyway. I guess I should've learned my lesson.

But I really do wish that people could've taken a little bit of seriousness into mind when dealing with this. I wasn't trying to be lame or anything like that. All most of the posters on this site do is talk down on other people's opinions without any reason at all. That's crappy, dude.

Oh well.

Everybody has proven you wrong on so many different levels. Dont back out like a bitch by saying 'well u dont know how to respect my opinion dats cool really it is oh well whatever im still right'.

[Wow]

Okay, so I'm not going to post anymore in this thread. I guess this is not a topic that can be taken seriously, or defended seriously. That's cool, though. I'm going to stick to my way of thinking, as is everyone else. That's usually how it works on the Internet anyway. I guess I should've learned my lesson.

But I really do wish that people could've taken a little bit of seriousness into mind when dealing with this. I wasn't trying to be lame or anything like that. All most of the posters on this site do is talk down on other people's opinions without any reason at all. That's crappy, dude.

Oh well.


We don't take it seriously because the topic has been beaten to death and I know that I'm pretty tired of discussing it and I can assume most users who have been here for a while are too.


You suck go die.

[lunchforthesky]

Bands cant be different waves if:

A) They come at the same time as other waves

and

B) They take no influence at all from previous waves

[lunchforthesky]

Also most people here are old enough so they never have to come into contact with anyone who likes Hawthorne Heights.

[santi3hg]

Well no. I'm 18. HH came out last year. My junior year.

A couple of us on here are 18. I know chris is for sure.

But woohoo scene chicks!!!

[srt-4]

i'm pretty sure that band has been around for a few years. i knew a kid that thought they were the best band ever, and i haven't even seen him in over a year.

[Arrakakaka]

i'm pretty sure that band has been around for a few years. i knew a kid that thought they were the best band ever, and i haven't even seen him in over a year.
Lets hope he killed himself.

[RetiredAt21]

I kind of surprised this thread is still open.

[AkeJay02]

Me, too.

[santi3hg]

Wtf Reiner Or Pat Close This Please.