Jazz Ride Cymbal Technique

[Hunted By a Freak]

...

[billdrum]

One thing I've never liked is when players move their stick side to side, almost in a swiping motion while playing swing. Seems like wasted motion to me, as well as producing inconsistent tones on the cymbal.

I turn my hand sideways (like French timpani grip), and keep my tip in basically the same spot on my ride, keep the wrist and fingers nice & loose, and drive through the cymbal for a full tone.

[Hunted By a Freak]

Yeah, I know what you mean I think.

Another thing I do, on the suggest from Peter Erskine and Dave Weckl in their vids, is to bring my stick up with my arm a bit for the accents on 2 and 4, it makes the time more physical to me, which I like.

[billdrum]

I tend to not emphasize 2 & 4 so much on my ride, because 1) the hi-hat is already doing that, and 2) It takes away from the quarter note movement of pure swing. I try to play my quarters consistent throughout. I have seen it both ways from the "experts", though.

[CARMEN77]

Yeah, I know what you mean I think.

Another thing I do, on the suggest from Peter Erskine and Dave Weckl in their vids, is to bring my stick up with my arm a bit for the accents on 2 and 4, it makes the time more physical to me, which I like.

time by moition. Love it. MY teacher taught me this way.

[Det_Nosnip]

I tend to not emphasize 2 & 4 so much on my ride, because 1) the hi-hat is already doing that, and 2) It takes away from the quarter note movement of pure swing. I try to play my quarters consistent throughout. I have seen it both ways from the "experts", though.

Yeah, I tend to play that way as well. IMO placing too heavy an accent on 2 & 4 interupts the forward motion. Although it IS important to emphasize those beats, I personally think that there are better ways of doing it, such as phrasing around those beats instead of 1 and 3, for example.

[Retarded Chipple]

I play "thumbs up" on the ride. So yeah pretty much French grip.

I'm studying the Moeller systems with my teacher and he's just starting to show/teach me the "alternative upstroke" for jazz ride playing.

I've found it to be really good to get a consistent skip note from and it keeps the swing pattern 'swinging' rather than flattening it out at faster tempos.
I too take a lot from Joe Morellos playing and his teachings of the "Level system." I also like a lot of Jojo Mayers technique. Check out his ride playing on Jabon: http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/mayer.html

I play "thumbs up" on the ride. So yeah pretty much French grip.

I'm studying the Moeller systems with my teacher and he's just starting to show/teach me the "alternative upstroke" for jazz ride playing.

I've found it to be really good to get a consistent skip note from and it keeps the swing pattern 'swinging' rather than flattening it out at faster tempos.
I too take a lot from Joe Morellos playing and his teachings of the "Level system." I also like a lot of Jojo Mayers technique (which I believe is Moeller. Check out his ride playing on Jabon: http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/mayer.html


One little pet hate I have is where people use their snare grip/technique on the ride. Where they keep the american or german grip on the ride, it looks really clumsy and awkward as they have their elbows sticking miles out.

[MyShrimpDied]

I use the french grip when playing jazz ride. I lightly accent the 2 & 4 while letting the broken eighths fall into the 1 & 3. This is the approach Jeff Hamilton uses.

I agree with Chipple about using american or german for jazz ride, not only does it look bad, but you're wasting energy holding your arm up to do it. Although when I play accents on the bell, I use American because it feels more controlled to me.

[Hunted By a Freak]

Jojo using Moeller in that clip? I don't think so. He is moving his wrist for every hit, it looks like. My impression with Moeller application for that would be that you are getting two hits, or doubles, by using a whip like motion to produce two strokes as even as possible. :shrug: So your wrist would only move half as fast, right?

[Retarded Chipple]

Yeah, sorry I didn't really word it that well. He uses a lot of moeller on snare and whatnot.
I was trying to say how he's using french grip on the ride in that clip and that it just seems to make sense physically. It looks a lot more relaxed. Imagine if he was using American or German in that vid and how awkward it'd look.

[Hunted By a Freak]

Yeah, I getcha I have seen him use Moeller a lot for other things myself.

[Jezen]

Art lies in the details right? (And I don't mean Mr Blakey).

I think it's important to understand the differences in sound that come from different grips. I think it's equally important to be able to draw from these differences by utilising these different grips at will.

When i'm playing jazz, my stroke will either be a Billy Ward kinda thing with the stick up at my second knuckle away from the nail, kinda more in the american position, or my stroke will be more of a Jack DeJohnette thing with the stick lying in my first knuckle away from the nail, more like a french grip.

[MyShrimpDied]

That's how the greats make even the most terrible equipment sound fantastic, their touch.

[Patrick323]

I I'm studying the Moeller systems with my teacher and he's just starting to show/teach me the "alternative upstroke" for jazz ride playing.


what do you mean by alternative upstroke?

[Det_Nosnip]

One little pet hate I have is where people use their snare grip/technique on the ride. Where they keep the american or german grip on the ride, it looks really clumsy and awkward as they have their elbows sticking miles out.

Errr...people do that for a reason. Ever try playing on the bell in French? It's a pain in the ***.

You don't have to stick your elbow out any more than you do in French...the only difference is about a 45 degree wrist rotation.

If it's a real pet peeve of yours, I'd suggest taking it up with Mr. Dave Weckl...I'm sure he'd be glad to hear you tell him that his playing looks clumsy and awkward. :)

[MyShrimpDied]

I think where your ride cymbal is, how far you have to reach to hit, and how high up it is plays a part in what grip you use. If your ride is mounted more in the center of your set and high up as opposed to the right of it and down low, it would probably make German feel less awkward.

[Hunted By a Freak]

one of my pet peeves is seeing people with ride cymbals to the right of their floor tom, at about the same height

:shudder:

terrible for body positioning

[MyShrimpDied]

I used to have mine positioned like that when I first started playing and sucked hard ***. Now that I only suck soft ***, i've got it Danny Carey style except a little lower and not as vertical.

[Hunted By a Freak]

Yeah, close to completely vertical makes little sense to me too... Al Foster is a great drummer, but wtf

http://www.jazzobert.compusoft.es/Festival%201999/Al%20Foster.jpg

[MyShrimpDied]

Yep, wouldn't work for me. Hitting the edge would be too tough.

[Retarded Chipple]

Errr...people do that for a reason. Ever try playing on the bell in French? It's a pain in the ***.

You don't have to stick your elbow out any more than you do in French...the only difference is about a 45 degree wrist rotation.

If it's a real pet peeve of yours, I'd suggest taking it up with Mr. Dave Weckl...I'm sure he'd be glad to hear you tell him that his playing looks clumsy and awkward. :)

Like MyShrimpDied said, I think ride positioning comes into it a lot. I've seen people with their ride over the floor tom and about chest high. I believe thats the point where its not the grip thats the problem but the setting up and use of correct posture....
...so I guess my pet peeve really lies within people not setting up for maximum comfort and/or applying the correct techniques...?

I hear ya about playing the bell in French. Same with crash riding. I find there's just not enough power. I was mainly talking about general riding the bow of the cymbal but yeah, I know what you're saying.
I could argue that there is a bit more of a difference than just a rotation of the wrists between french and german on the ride but again it comes down to where the ride is in relation to your body.



Oh, and if you give me Daves number I'll phone him and shatter his already delicate ego :p :evil:

[billdrum]

Ride cymbal position is one of the reasons I set my kit up like I do, with the ride where the 13" tom would be on a "regular" set up. I just find it so much easier and more comfortable with it right there, instead of off to the right by a floor tom.

[Inkstar]

Yeah, close to completely vertical makes little sense to me too... Al Foster is a great drummer, but wtf

http://www.jazzobert.compusoft.es/Festival%201999/Al%20Foster.jpg

Ugh, yuck. :smash:

[Hunted By a Freak]

Ride cymbal position is one of the reasons I set my kit up like I do, with the ride where the 13" tom would be on a "regular" set up. I just find it so much easier and more comfortable with it right there, instead of off to the right by a floor tom.

123

I have done this mostly in recent times, or when playing a 5 piece "regular" set up, put it slightly angled (at least compared to Al Foster) above the 2nd tom.

[Jezen]

Well it's a simple enough concept really. Set your kit up around your body. Don't try and adapt to the kit.

I mean, look at other instruments. How about a piano? There's a reason it's set up the way it is. What if it were different? What if the keys were arranged:

C A# D# F E G# D G B A C# F#

Would that be logical? I don't think so. Just do it properly. Look at Gavin Harrison (GOD) or Billy Ward. They know what they are doing. It's not a big secret, it's just common sense.

[Stickman Sam]

one of my pet peeves is seeing people with ride cymbals to the right of their floor tom, at about the same height

:shudder:

terrible for body positioning

I imagined someone reaching far over their floor tom to play the ride and falling sideways off their stool.

~~

[Hunted By a Freak]

Well it's a simple enough concept really. Set your kit up around your body. Don't try and adapt to the kit.

I mean, look at other instruments. How about a piano? There's a reason it's set up the way it is. What if it were different? What if the keys were arranged:

C A# D# F E G# D G B A C# F#

Would that be logical? I don't think so. Just do it properly. Look at Gavin Harrison (GOD) or Billy Ward. They know what they are doing. It's not a big secret, it's just common sense.

Then why do I see so many people with terrible looking setups? :thumb:

BB, you can be a good user sometimes, but err on the side of redundancy or ignorance sometimes :-/

If the subject is not worth talking about to you, why post? :confused:

[Josiah]

123

I have done this mostly in recent times, or when playing a 5 piece "regular" set up, put it slightly angled (at least compared to Al Foster) above the 2nd tom.

So you guys prefer the feel of it flat(er)?

I'm always so torn. I like working the bow and shouldering the ride a lot so a lil angle for me sometimes help facilitate that, but it does feel easier/more natural with it lower.

What's your guys take on flat rides? (pertaining to jazz/swing).

[Hunted By a Freak]

Yeah, I don't like extreme angles nor do I like it completely flat, as it makes any bow/shouldering work harder, and the bell less accesible for me.

I actually use a flat ride as my main ride, I still angle it a bit, but not much.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Roy_Haynes.html

Similar to the first picture at the top, maybe a little bit more angled towards me, but not completely flat, either

[Hunted By a Freak]

Norwegian drummer Jon Christensen has somewhat of a stiff arm/wrist technique by the looks of it, and a pretty severe cymbal angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vri14auJrY

More severe angles :-/ on this basic Ndugu lesson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_iMcehW4QA

Tony's fast ride playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu6w66F5dU

[Det_Nosnip]

I could argue that there is a bit more of a difference than just a rotation of the wrists between french and german on the ride but again it comes down to where the ride is in relation to your body.


Well, ok...the way I have my ride positioned, it's nothing more than a rotation of the wrist. There's nothing inherent about the technique that forces your elbows out like that.

[Josiah]

Totally, John looks so awkward

[Det_Nosnip]

*shrug* sounds fine to me, though.

[MyShrimpDied]

Yeah, he's playing with Sco so he's gotta be doin' something right, but I don't understand how he can consciously play like that, whatever works I guess. He's probably in a drumming coma and doesn't realize the horrid technique.

[Hunted By a Freak]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Jackdejohnettekeith3.html

Wow, Jack has a very loose grip, by my judge... it looks like his fulcrum is in his second knuckle of his index finger and his thumb... weird for me

[jiashen]

http://www.vicfirth.com/podcasts/drumset/moore.html
haha Stanton Moore looks like he's holding nothing when he's playing the ride

[Det_Nosnip]

Yeah, he actually spent alot of time developing that technique, as "sloppy" as it looks. The looseness contributes alot to his sound and touch.

[Hunted By a Freak]

I said it looked weird to me, not sloppy.. :confused: this thread isn't to bash other drummers

[Det_Nosnip]

Oh, I was talking about Stanton. Definitetly didn't mean to imply that you were bashing anybody...I just meant that Stanton plays so loose it almost looks "sloppy."

[Pearldrumguy]

I use a french grip...I try to play it one sound level. on the doubles if you would call it that part i do wrist then bring it in with the fingers. It takes less energy than wristing all of it plus you dont really get the choked off sound that you would if you use that technique on drums.

[Hunted By a Freak]

yeah, on REALLY fast stuff I sometimes, use fingers... SOMETIMES, as im not a big fingers guy, but it depends on the cymbal and stick i'm using, if I need the definition

[Jezen]

Jack DeJohnette has a very loose grip which is great, but he drops sticks alot too.

Alot.

[Hunted By a Freak]

You really hate Dejohnette it seems :-/

[raz0r]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Jackdejohnettekeith3.html

Wow, Jack has a very loose grip, by my judge... it looks like his fulcrum is in his second knuckle of his index finger and his thumb... weird for me

I find that kind of grip really comfortable personally. The ride is the only place in which I regularly use finger-based grip :/

I'm interested to try my ride in a more Danny Carey-esque position. I wouldn't do it with my sweet ride though, I crash it too often.

[Jezen]

You really hate Dejohnette it seems :-/

No, he's a great player undoubtedly.

I just think that playing the same motif on a bunch of bells for 20 minutes is a load of bullshit.

[wesm9787]

Never heard it honestly. I always thought it was a cool idea but I can see how that would get boring pretty fast. Might be cool for a solo or something though.

I kinda switch off between American and French grip for playing the ride though, depening on what I'm doing with it. If I'm playing something fast or driving or something, or where I'm hitting the bell or other things a lot, I'll go with American. Things that involve more feel I switch to the French.

[FockerTheLopper]

One thing I've never liked is when players move their stick side to side, almost in a swiping motion while playing swing. Seems like wasted motion to me, as well as producing inconsistent tones on the cymbal.

I turn my hand sideways (like French timpani grip), and keep my tip in basically the same spot on my ride, keep the wrist and fingers nice & loose, and drive through the cymbal for a full tone.

Some people (like my teacher) would sometimes swing the stick in order to produce different tones. Just another tool in the bag. One thing I don't think is good though is when begginners do this because they don't really know anything about the tone and they don't learn the better way to do it. I'm not sure how the swaying would work in a band situation but I would suppose it would be inbetween regular time on one spot and all out crazy with rhythms on cymbal and filling in with the drums.

[TTTSNB]

I just try to utilize the bounce as much as possible, otherwise it sounds far too stiff. Wrist for accents, fingers/ bounce for everything else.

[FockerTheLopper]

I just try to utilize the bounce as much as possible, otherwise it sounds far too stiff. Wrist for accents, fingers/ bounce for everything else.

As far as technique I like mine alot. I do the first stroke wrist, second bounce and third fingers. Its all one motion thats hard to get but when you get it its ultra consisent in sound and looks nice because your hand is just doing one downwards motion then coming back up for the next 3. So the strokes are down and the rest is up.

[TTTSNB]

^ That's a good way to think of it, I'm not really sure what my technique really is to be honest, I just try to relax and use the bounce as much as possible.

[FockerTheLopper]

^ That's a good way to think of it, I'm not really sure what my technique really is to be honest, I just try to relax and use the bounce as much as possible.

I'm all for bounce but you ussually need more definition than just pure bounce, especially in a band situation. A graduated drummer in my school came back and was trying to show off, he was swinging at a speed over 320. I wasn't impressed though because he would use the bounce off the first stroke to get the other 2 so he might as well have been playing quaters because at least you would feel the pulse every four as opposed the 2 and 4 only with the swing. The point is that everything has its place, maybe for a double time thing for a couple of beats it would be okay if you're fingers aren't trained to switch quick and your wrist only knows where 2 and 4 is but generally I think its better to get every stroke out yourself(but of course use the bounce to bring the stick back up)

If you have the right sticks and cymbals(sticks like Weckl's with a heavy duty cymbal) then looseness with alot of bounce is all good, but I like staying a little more steady with the swing just because it feels like I'm more in control.

[Imperial Star]

I use a combination of fingers and wrist. I mainly use the wrist to bring the stick down and then the fingers for everything else.

Do you guys accent the quarter and ghost the skip note?
I have a bit of touble with this because I use a double stroke motion to play it and because of this they are around the same volume.

[FockerTheLopper]

I use a combination of fingers and wrist. I mainly use the wrist to bring the stick down and then the fingers for everything else.

Do you guys accent the quarter and ghost the skip note?
I have a bit of touble with this because I use a double stroke motion to play it and because of this they are around the same volume.

Its all about how you want it but you want the ability to control it. Sometimes you play them all them same and sometimes 2 and 4 louder. Generally I like to play them all near the same with a subtle accent on 2 and 4. When I was playing Count Basie - Corner Pocket it was really heavy 2 and 4 with barely anything else. Its all about the tune.

[Det_Nosnip]

You never want to ghost the offbeat...that'll make your playing sound sloppy IMO. For my baseline, I'll usually play all notes even, with a slight emphasis on 2+4. From there, extra accentuation/emphasis would obviously depend on the song, but I can't really think of any practical situation in which you'd want to ghost the offbeats.

[FockerTheLopper]

You never want to ghost the offbeat...that'll make your playing sound sloppy IMO. For my baseline, I'll usually play all notes even, with a slight emphasis on 2+4. From there, extra accentuation/emphasis would obviously depend on the song, but I can't really think of any practical situation in which you'd want to ghost the offbeats.

I don't think that is always true(about ghosting). My teacher was telling me about a famous drummer(can't think of his name) who would put the 16ths very close to each other because the downbeat is what is imporant, so maybe it would have the same effect. For me though, like I said, I like to play everything even exept for a little accent on 2 and 4. In certain cases though it does change

[Det_Nosnip]

Oh, for sure...I've even heard songs where the emphasis is actually on the off-beats. I mean...it's jazz; you can do just about anything, as long as you find a way to make it work.

It sounds like you're talking about Art Blakey Focker...he pioneered that tense hard-bop "half swung" jazz feel, and a big part of it was delaying the off beat.

[FockerTheLopper]

Oh, for sure...I've even heard songs where the emphasis is actually on the off-beats. I mean...it's jazz; you can do just about anything, as long as you find a way to make it work.

It sounds like you're talking about Art Blakey Focker...he pioneered that tense hard-bop "half swung" jazz feel, and a big part of it was delaying the off beat.

Might be Blakey, it was a while ago and I didn't start to like him until recently but I just like his music not so much him as a drummer.

And you're 100% right, you can do anything in jazz as long as it sounds good(as well as with other music)

[Det_Nosnip]

Haha true...I suppose that could be said for anything. With jazz it's just...easier to justify the strange stuff. :)

[FockerTheLopper]

Haha true...I suppose that could be said for anything. With jazz it's just...easier to justify the strange stuff. :)

Yeah thats true. I remember being in one of my friends car who listens to hardcore music and one song the drummer was swinging for like 2 bars or something... It didn't swing therefore it couldn't be justified, look at Tony and how many times he would play straight, that can be justified...

Kind of a joke but the point does get across

[TTTSNB]

I'm all for bounce but you ussually need more definition than just pure bounce, especially in a band situation. A graduated drummer in my school came back and was trying to show off, he was swinging at a speed over 320. I wasn't impressed though because he would use the bounce off the first stroke to get the other 2 so he might as well have been playing quaters because at least you would feel the pulse every four as opposed the 2 and 4 only with the swing. The point is that everything has its place, maybe for a double time thing for a couple of beats it would be okay if you're fingers aren't trained to switch quick and your wrist only knows where 2 and 4 is but generally I think its better to get every stroke out yourself(but of course use the bounce to bring the stick back up)

If you have the right sticks and cymbals(sticks like Weckl's with a heavy duty cymbal) then looseness with alot of bounce is all good, but I like staying a little more steady with the swing just because it feels like I'm more in control.
Yeah, that makes sense. I think it also depends on what cymbal you have. I pretty much have to use the French grip for my ride cymbal, as I always sound really heavy otherwise, and my French finger technique isn't as solid as my German technique.

[FockerTheLopper]

Yeah, that makes sense. I think it also depends on what cymbal you have. I pretty much have to use the French grip for my ride cymbal, as I always sound really heavy otherwise, and my French finger technique isn't as solid as my German technique.

Same here. I was actually reading something yesterday from the Z magazine(which is filled with crap, but eh, when on your on the crapper you need something to do) and I read something interesting. Erskine says to play the cymbal with the stick almost parellel to the cymbal, I'm going to try it later today when I play.

[Det_Nosnip]

I've seen alot of guys do that, actually...it's for a lighter feel, right?

[FockerTheLopper]

I've seen alot of guys do that, actually...it's for a lighter feel, right?

Not sure, I'm going to go play in a couple of minutes so I'll let you know

Okay, I went and played, heres what I found. First off you hear less stick(its still defined but less stick, hard to explain if you try it you'll understand). Second off it DOES give a lighter feel because you have less stick, so in essence its less of a ping and more of a cymbal sound. For jazz I would say do that 100% except for maybe some loud sections or solos but for rock hands down use the other way with more stick. It cuts more and you'll feel the pulse heavier

[TTTSNB]

Same here. I was actually reading something yesterday from the Z magazine(which is filled with crap, but eh, when on your on the crapper you need something to do) and I read something interesting. Erskine says to play the cymbal with the stick almost parellel to the cymbal, I'm going to try it later today when I play.
Hmm, that's a good idea. I'll try it tomorrow.

[Det_Nosnip]

It helps to loosen up on the fulcrum as well...alot of guys who play loosely drop their sticks alot, but it's worth it for the lighter feel IMO.

[White Riot!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu6w66F5dU

The angle of the ride isn't that important. Its more about your touch and lifting the stick off the ride

[drummguy731]

Unless you purposely lay into the ride, which gives it a completely different sound. But if you are doing that accidentally and you don't correct it, it tends to be a problem.

[billdrum]

I believe in playing "through" the cymbal with a really loose grip (and I don't drop sticks....hardly ever) as opposed to "on" the cymbal. Try an experiment......hopefully you are using wood sticks... :thumb: ....play a swing pattern with a really loose grip laying into the cymbal a bit (not overkill, but play "through" the cymbal). Then tighten your grip and play "on" the cymbal. You should notice a distinct change in the tone. Now I guess it depends on the kind of sound you want, but the first technique should give you a much fuller, darker, sound.

[Det_Nosnip]

Unless you purposely lay into the ride, which gives it a completely different sound. But if you are doing that accidentally and you don't correct it, it tends to be a problem.

Oh, yeah....definitetly. I think alot of people who buy giant, heavy, pingy rides because they want more stick definition could have gotten the sound they were looking for with a bit better stick control.

[drummguy731]

Yeah, right on the money with that one.

[FockerTheLopper]

I believe in playing "through" the cymbal with a really loose grip (and I don't drop sticks....hardly ever) as opposed to "on" the cymbal. Try an experiment......hopefully you are using wood sticks... :thumb: ....play a swing pattern with a really loose grip laying into the cymbal a bit (not overkill, but play "through" the cymbal). Then tighten your grip and play "on" the cymbal. You should notice a distinct change in the tone. Now I guess it depends on the kind of sound you want, but the first technique should give you a much fuller, darker, sound.

Yeah, through the cymbal is right(sound wise).
Hi from Greece BTW

[Det_Nosnip]

Sweet, man....I'm envious. Greece is next on the list of places to go for me.

[TTTSNB]

It helps to loosen up on the fulcrum as well...alot of guys who play loosely drop their sticks alot, but it's worth it for the lighter feel IMO.
Is it possible to get a decent jazz sound with a tight fulcrum? hah.

[M@xwell]

If it's so wrong having the ride on the right of your floor tom, where would you suggest puttnig it? I'm using a 5 piece btw, so I can't simply stick it where the second tom would be.

[Det_Nosnip]

I'm using a 6 piece, and I've got it in the very place.

It's all about ergonomically designing your set-up. One of the most common drumset design mistakes is to think two dimensionally...IMO, the most efficient arrangements tend to be set up on a curve rather than a straight line.

The simple answer, of course, is to get your toms off of your bass drum and to mount them on a rack or cymbal stand, moving them to the far left (or right, if you're a lefty) in order to leave room for your ride.

[M@xwell]

Well I've not got the money for a rack so I just took out the mid tom. It's totally worth the sacrifice though cos things are finally feeling more comfortable haha :) cheers

[Det_Nosnip]

Yeah, it can let you have alot less strain on your arm while riding.

[Imperial Star]

I have a 5 piece and have the ride above my 2nd rack tom. I don't think you need to sacrifice a tom to get the ride were you want it, I guess unless you won't your ride right next to the small tom.

[zfzgg]

Well I've not got the money for a rack so I just took out the mid tom. It's totally worth the sacrifice though cos things are finally feeling more comfortable haha :) cheers

You could try keeping the middle tom, and placing the ride cymbal above it, at a little bit of an angle (you may have to move the tom in a bit, but in every case I've seen this has increased comfort anyway).

Worth a shot :).

- - - - - -

Here's a question. Those of you with a left side ride, or who ride a cymbal on the left. Do you use differing grips between your cymbals? Someone mentioned earlier that a ride towards the middle of your set could promote American/German grip on the ride, whereas on the right, it promotes French, Do you agree?

Personally, I usually (I'm not a heavy hitter) use French grip on both rides. Although American is comfortable for the LSR, French gives me a more favourable sound. I've also caught myself using French on my toms with my right hand, which is a habit I want to get rid of.

[crazyguy832]

As a habit, the closer to the centre of the kit, the more I use German grip while the farther to the sides I am, I use French.

Simple economy of motion. I don't need to move my arms as far to play stuff on my kit this way.