why does bass get robbed in the mix?

[Roy.]

it has annoyed me since i first knew what a bass was.

especially in metal music the bass gets robbed. either it is shoved into the backround or completely removed. (or so it seems)

seems like you got to go to a concert to really hear the bass player sometimes. yeah some bands do a good job of giving their bass players space (incubus,chili peppers,tool come to mind real quick) but most of the time is seems the bass player is a second class citizen. (at least on records)

when i switch to bass fully am i just going to have to except this? do any of you have bands where you get robbed by the attention whore...i mean guitar player?
:lol:

[lateralus423]

Thats one of the problems with my band, my guitarist has a spiderII and he cranks the bass on that thing and it always always drowns me out, its so rediculous. So i just crank my mag up :D

[sixner]

This is just part of being a bassist. Granted, not all bands are like this... as you said, tool, incubus, rhcp... also mudvayne is a big one.

Typically, it seems even more prominant in 2 guitar bands. the bass gets pushed in the back, but its keeping the solid rythem. its the backbone of the band. Bass isint the flashiest of insturments, but its one of the more important.

-Sixner

[PainKiller8191]

i don't think you can classify one instrument (specifically in rock and metal) as more important than another...

[Richi]

You may not hear the bass all the time but you will always feel it.

[thelowsoundofbass]

It is there, if it wasn't you would know. In a lot of bands you don't always hear the bass that well, but you know when it isn't there. Also once you start playing you will notice it a lot more and in songs where you didn't hear it before. In 99% of the songs that I hear I can pick out the bass line, even with crappy speakers.

lowsound

[edgebass5]

Try to mix (either live or on a recording) a very heavy sounding band with tons of bass in the mix:

Situation 1: You keep a nice deep tone. You can't put the bass very high in the mix because it tends to make the whole mix muddy and cause lots of boomyness.

Situation 2: You decide you want to get the bass higher in the mix. To accomplish this you start removing low end and adding mids. The bass is now plenty loud in the mix, but might not be a sound you find pleasing.

Its a very hard instrument to mix properly (either live or in the studio). When you're competing with two heavily distorted guitars its very hard to cut through the mix. Its just something you'll have to live with.

[edgebass5]

Thats one of the problems with my band, my guitarist has a spiderII and he cranks the bass on that thing and it always always drowns me out, its so rediculous. So i just crank my mag up :D

Guitarist turns up, bassist turns up, guitarist turns up to compensate, bassist turns up to compensate, vocals get drowned out, drums get hard to hear, soundguy gets pissed because now your stage volume is approaching the same level as the PA, your live sound suffers, the crowd gets disappointed, turnout at your shows goes down, singer falls into a depression due to the loss of the crowds at shows, singer develops a massive heroine addiction.... All because the two of you couldn't work out an EQ for the band as a whole instead of worrying about each other's individual sound and volume.... tisk tisk tisk..... :p

[Roy.]

Guitarist turns up, bassist turns up, guitarist turns up to compensate, bassist turns up to compensate, vocals get drowned out, drums get hard to hear, soundguy gets pissed because now your stage volume is approaching the same level as the PA, your live sound suffers, the crowd gets disappointed, turnout at your shows goes down, singer falls into a depression due to the loss of the crowds at shows, singer develops a massive heroine addiction.... All because the two of you couldn't work out an EQ for the band as a whole instead of worrying about each other's individual sound and volume.... tisk tisk tisk..... :p

:lol:

You may not hear the bass all the time but you will always feel it.

truth

[lemoley]

yeah... you also get less pussy too

[ebe9]

All about finding a balance with the sonic space in the band.

The memebers need to have a rough understanding of what each instrument is designed to do as far as frequency range goes and work with that to create balanced mix rather than fighting it.

[marcoze]

wait a second..............did you just say bass gets robbed in the mix in metal? Wow.........what kinda metal are you basing this conclusion on? Listen to ANY speed/death/thrash metal band...........pretty much ever......the bass is clearly audible and prominent. When you start playing bass youll hear it if you cant already.

im just flabbergasted by that statement.

im not tryin to sound like a douchebag or anything of the sorts........but im just used to always hearing the bass

[lateralus423]

Guitarist turns up, bassist turns up, guitarist turns up to compensate, bassist turns up to compensate, vocals get drowned out, drums get hard to hear, soundguy gets pissed because now your stage volume is approaching the same level as the PA, your live sound suffers, the crowd gets disappointed, turnout at your shows goes down, singer falls into a depression due to the loss of the crowds at shows, singer develops a massive heroine addiction.... All because the two of you couldn't work out an EQ for the band as a whole instead of worrying about each other's individual sound and volume.... tisk tisk tisk..... :p


Our gigs arent to bad :-p But i never try and tell him to change his EQ cause he never will. its okay anyways im out of the band in a few months.

[Tryxx]

It wouldn't be as bad if we weren't all tone whores... but we are. It just takes some compromise between the guitarist and basses. If we could just force ourselves to invert each others EQ it'd be ok.

[Roy.]

wait a second..............did you just say bass gets robbed in the mix in metal? Wow.........what kinda metal are you basing this conclusion on? Listen to ANY speed/death/thrash metal band...........pretty much ever......the bass is clearly audible and prominent. When you start playing bass youll hear it if you cant already.

im just flabbergasted by that statement.

im not tryin to sound like a douchebag or anything of the sorts........but im just used to always hearing the bass

well listen to like pantera. rex gets drowned when dime really kicks that **** up...but every single breakdown sounds that much harder with rex in it.

you might not agree with me but we also probably listen to different types of metal...there are like 50 gizillion subgenres of metal anyway. :lol:

i would say being "flabbergasted" by my statement is going a bit overboard.

[marcoze]

well listen to like pantera. rex gets drowned when dime really kicks that **** up...but every single breakdown sounds that much harder with rex in it.

you might not agree with me but we also probably listen to different types of metal...there are like 50 gizillion subgenres of metal anyway. :lol:

i would say being "flabbergasted" by my statement is going a bit overboard.

haha, i was just looking for an excuse to use that word. Flabbergasted.......its a good word.

Anyway, purchase *cough cough* some Prong, Suicidal Tendencies, Overkill, Crowbar, Forced Entry, Motorhead, Sodom............i could go on forever, but they are some bands that really use the bass as a tool in their music and dont just use it as a "Necessity"

[One Groovin Clown]

Cause the man is trying to get us down, that's why!

[BenJammin]

Cause the man is trying to get us down, that's why!

It's true.

Even when I play solo, still no one can hear me.

I get lost in the mix of the audience talking.

:upset:

[Akira]

It's true.

Even when I play solo, still no one can hear me.

I get lost in the mix of the audience talking.

:upset:

Sucks to be Ben.

[edgebass5]

Sucks to be Ben.

At least we don't have to hear him! I feel bad for his audience :p

JUST JOKING!!!! :lol:

[BenJammin]

At least we don't have to hear him! I feel bad for his audience :p

JUST JOKING!!!! :lol:

I'm laughing and crying all the same. :lol: :upset:

[Roy.]

It's true.

Even when I play solo, still no one can hear me.

I get lost in the mix of the audience talking.

:upset:

wtf?

what were you playing through?
(amp wise)

[BenJammin]

wtf?

what were you playing through?
(amp wise)

:lol:

You missed the humour there.

No one wants to listen to a solo bassist.

I'm a solo bassist.

Therefore, when I play, no one hears me, regardless of volume/EQ/whatever. :p





Now it's not funny anymore. Jerk.

[Akira]

At least we don't have to hear him! I feel bad for his audience.

123

[BenJammin]

123

You're definitely not getting my custom when I die now.

[Akira]

wtf?

what were you playing through?
(amp wise)

L

Yeah...

[Akira]

You're definitely not getting my custom when I die now.

Aww, you know I love you. It's just tough love.

[Roy.]

:lol:

You missed the humour there.

No one wants to listen to a solo bassist.

I'm a solo bassist.

Therefore, when I play, no one hears me, regardless of volume/EQ/whatever. :p





Now it's not funny anymore. Jerk.

yeah your right,that flew right over my head.

[BenJammin]

yeah your right,that flew right over my head.

:lol:

Hang around here more often.

You'll be prepared for the next time it happens. :p

[Roy.]

http://planetsmilies.net/happy-smiley-638.gif

[BassVirtuoso]

Try turning up the music really loud, then covering your ears.

What is pretty much the only thing you can hear?

The bass drum and the bass, now tell me which one is "louder" =p

[Roy.]

:lol:

good one.

[Jody LeCompte]

:(

You were actually a cool guitar player, Roy. Although, your also the blackest guy I know so it makes sense your playing bass now.

[Roy.]

thank you. :)

i most likely will pick up guitar again...right now bass just interest me so much more.

i just wish i could fully get started...this guitar stuff is taken awhile to sell :(

[Jody LeCompte]

You sold the artcore yet?

[YDload]

don't worry, it's possible to be in bands with two or even THREE guitars and still be an audible bassist. but it helps if you're the one in charge of everything like Steve Harris is ;)

also, check out the band called Television. two amazing guitarists, but they usually play single-string melodies throughout and that makes the bass much easier to hear. and the bassist is not only audible, but ****ing awesome too.

[EADG]

It's true.

Even when I play solo, still no one can hear me.

I get lost in the mix of the audience talking.

:upset:



:lol:


It's funny because it's true

[EADG]

I think


The bass may not seem audible in the full mix

But if you took it out

You'd definitely notice.

[BenJammin]

:lol:


It's funny because it's true

Hey!

No sass from you.

You're in the same boat as me.

[Dyslexic Magician]

wtf?

what were you playing through?
(amp wise)

:lol::thumb:

[Dyslexic Magician]

don't worry, it's possible to be in bands with two or even THREE guitars and still be an audible bassist. but it helps if you're the one in charge of everything like Steve Harris is ;)

also, check out the band called Television. two amazing guitarists, but they usually play single-string melodies throughout and that makes the bass much easier to hear. and the bassist is not only audible, but ****ing awesome too.

At the Drive-In too

DOUBLE POST

[Rawb]

I've been a big fan of the Deftones since the Adrenaline days. I must say that the reason why Carpenter's sound is so heavy is because he's got Chi Cheng's low end.

It seems that most bands that claim to be or are known to be 'heavy' are only so because of the bass. I mean come on, there's no way a guitar can produce such a heavy sound without bass. Its just that the bassist's playing is so tight with the roots that the bass will sometimes seem like its being robbed from the mix.

I honestly think, if you want to stand out in the mix then make your playing 'stand out' from everyone else. IMO.

[One Groovin Clown]

Chugga Chugga is heavy to some people.

[YDload]

At the Drive-In too

DOUBLE POST

nah, not always. the bass tone on Acrobatic Tenement is kinda crappy, which makes me mad because that's my favorite album of theirs (plus Omar himself is playing the bass because they didnt have Paul yet). i have no idea what's going on bass-wise with some of my favorite songs :mad:

[ChimPz]

in slayer the bassist gets put to good use.. but you still can't hear the bass :p
Maybe, but i'd bet you would notice if the bass dropped out.

[White_Summer]

Maybe, but i'd bet you would notice if the bass dropped out.

you say that, but if you turn the bass completely down, slayer is still slayer, hah tom never adds anything beyond rooting, and his bass is never high on the mix not even live, probably because he loves the sound of his own voice

[sixner]

in slayer the bassist gets put to good use.. but you still can't hear the bass :p

its a shame really

i think mudvayne did an excellent job with the bass on LD 50

agree'd.

ive been lovin me some Tool lately.
although ive been playing guitar tool, not bass... still good though.
i <3 justin.


Another band (did i over look? im tired) Rage / Audioslave
timmy C > you

-sixner

[Roy.]

You sold the artcore yet?

nope. pawn shops offered me **** for it.

most was $100. the least was $30. (wtf!)

i can't wait to get it sold...

especially after i saw this...

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/7/2/5/456725.jpg

oh ooooh oooooooh my god!

I've been a big fan of the Deftones since the Adrenaline days. I must say that the reason why Carpenter's sound is so heavy is because he's got Chi Cheng's low end.

It seems that most bands that claim to be or are known to be 'heavy' are only so because of the bass. I mean come on, there's no way a guitar can produce such a heavy sound without bass. Its just that the bassist's playing is so tight with the roots that the bass will sometimes seem like its being robbed from the mix.

I honestly think, if you want to stand out in the mix then make your playing 'stand out' from everyone else. IMO.

that is so true. i've just been noticing it. like i was listening to vulgar display and far beyond and hearing how fizzy dime's tone was back than. like soda pop.

...and OMG i love the deftones but that **** would be so annoying without chi in there.

[EADG]

Hey!

No sass from you.

You're in the same boat as me.



Yes I know, I was laughing because I know from too much experience.

[livefastdieyoung]

In some bands there's few room for bass.

But sometimes, it's just what you make of it. I play in a 2 guitar band, and in some songs i can show off with nice basslines that you can hear very well...but in other songs i have to stay in the background, because that song requires it.

And i don't think any instrument is more important than another.

[PainKiller8191]

I've got two bands, one that has two guitarists, and another has just one


of course in the band with one guitarist, i get tons more freedom in terms of tone, and basslines,
but in the two guitar band everything just sounds plain fuller even with me just sticking to simple stuff and a round tone

[The Chemist]

get a MM stingray. If that doesn't stand out in a mix, you are deaf

[Jody LeCompte]

Roy, how much do you want for your artcore?

[TheIdiotBox]

get a MM stingray. If that doesn't stand out in a mix, you are deafJustin Chancellor actually stopped using StingRays because they'd get lost in the mix when he first joined Tool (I think that was the reason, anyway).

As for bass getting "robbed" in the mix, I've found that the style of music in question has most impact on the prominence of the bass in the mix. For example, mixing a cover of Metallica's For Whom The Bell Tolls I found it virtually impossible to get the bass up front, mainly because (intro aside) the function of the bass in that song is to support the guitars. Taking the bass out, it was easy to see (or rather, hear) just how important the bass was, whether it was up front or not.

[mike-o]

i don't think you can classify one instrument (specifically in rock and metal) as more important than another...

There's not really a Hendrix or Van Halen of bass

[myles]

jhon paul jones ?^

[YDload]

jaco, jamerson, or entwistle can all be considered the hendrix of bass

[Afrokid]

Mastodon also has a good bassist that usually doesn't get lost in the mix, even with the heavy distortion. Between the Buried and Me also has an excellent bassist, and his tone on Selkies: The Endless Obsession, is truely perfect.

[Jody LeCompte]

TheIdiotBox: Actually, it's he described his tone as "Too much clank at the bottom, absolutely nothing in the top, and everythingelse in the middle". Aka, steretypical stingray tone. He cut through the mix, but the fullness of Tool's tone on songs with Paul D'amour was gone because all there was was click-clank korn bass.

[TheIdiotBox]

Ah, my mistake, thanks for clearing that up.

[RoyBoy2the_negro_returns]

don't forget victor wooten up in that list.


Roy, how much do you want for your artcore?

$220 plus shipping

not that i know how much the shipping would be.

i would have to find out.

if that is too much we can work something out. i won't go too far down though,nigga got to make some money you know? :lol:

[Jody LeCompte]

Shame on a nigga roy, shame on a nigga. :lol:

I'll check the good ol bank account and see what I can do... Ive wanted an artcore for a damn long while.

[Ampd2xlr8]

i don't think you can classify one instrument (specifically in rock and metal) as more important than another...

i dont think he was saying one was more important than another.

For example. Lets use Killswitch Engage. I like this band but tell you the truth i dont hear the bass at all. But i have their live DVD, their was one part when the bassist stopped playing and my friends and i were like "wtf just happened".

In a lot of casses the bass is the backbone of the rythem section where as the drums are the structure.

You take the bass away and you have a huge hole in your music you didnt even relized was being filled.

[YDload]

don't forget victor wooten up in that list.

you mean the "hendrix of bass" list? naw, he's more like the malmsteen or satriani. totally impossible levels of shred.