triggers

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

ive heard of them

never used them.

i dont see any cords attached, but theyre electric.

how do they work?

what do they do?

.

only thing ive heard about them is that cheaters use them.

why is this so?

.

thanks.

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Firstly, triggers are electronic devices that detect vibration in the head, ie a hit. Hooked up to a module, they play a pre-determined sound when a drum is hit, although they can be used to trigger lights and all sorts of effects.

Secondly, triggers aren't cheating, they provide a studio quality sound every time, which makes recording easy. The drummer still has to play at the right speed and with good technique. The main thing triggers are used for is bass drums in extreme metal, the only reason they're used is because at such high speeds, it simply isn't possible to play loud enough to be heard.

[Pauly]

In addition to what DITN said..

Triggers work on the basis of the piezoelectric effect. Basically, there is a crystal on top of a metal plate. When they are pushed together, they produce a voltage. A single hit would correspond to a spike in the voltage. The module (or any type of data acquisition system) will interpret this voltage spike as its cue to do some sort of action - in this case, play a sound.

You can use triggers (piezos) for anything. As DITN said, they can be used to trigger lights. For a project last year, I built a system that had piezos in the soles of a runner's shoes. Each voltage spike corresponded to a step, and based on the time interval between each spike, the velocity of the runner was calculated. Although I never got to test it in the field, it bench tested well enough.

As for not having cords, that'll probably be unlikely. It could be done by transmitting the voltage signal through radio waves or similar, but it would be a lot of hassle for very little gain (and most likely a loss of signal).

The only way I could deem triggers as cheating would be if for every trigger the system produced two notes.

[Retarded Chipple]

I thought the way they can be used to cheat is that they aren't always dynamic sensitive or something like that. Like you could play a ghost note or a full stroke and both strokes would sound the same (a consistent volume) through the PA or where ever the sample comes out. Say on the bass drum, you could barely let the beater come off the head, vibrating the pedal almost...but out front you hear it as a freakin machine gun! Dunno if that makes sense?

I could however be wrong, I'm no trigger expert hehe.

[Pauly]

Yeh, that's definitely a possibility.

[Pleaseme]

That's why triggers are used a lot for 'micing' bass drums in faster metal. The player only has to tickle the drum head in order to trigger the..trigger, and the sound that is played through the PA can be as loud and clear as you like. Hense, drummers can play a hell of a lot faster and for longer because they only have to tap the pedal with their toes to produce the desired sound.

I don't know about dynamics though, anyone know how sensitive triggers can be towards dynamics?

[Zildjian]

^triggers can be very dynamic.

[billdrum]

I've always thought triggers were for those who don't know how to tune or play with proper technique. At least that's who seems to be using them most of the time around here.

I think its cool to use them to trigger effects and things your acoustic drums can't do.

To pleaseme: You can usually set the sensitivity for each trigger on the module its plugged in to....can make it more or less sensitive depending on how you're using it.

[maniac0796]

Continuing on from Paulys Piezo thing.

They can be used in a lot of things. One of my projects last year was to build a mechanism that when you put a coin of any shape or size in, you got a little sweet. To register the coin being inserted, i used a piezo. They're good things.

The thing i don't understand about triggers is people buy really expensive kits and put em on, when you get the same sound with a crappy £100 kit from argos.

[FL3P]

Ive seen the opposite as well. Ive seen a guy with a crappy kit that triggered the recorded sound of the kit. That seems like cheating but it serves its purpose.

[maniac0796]

That seems rather pointless

[-TGP-]

I just bought one.
hehehe.

[Retarded Chipple]

^^A trigger or a cheap drum kit?

[Pleaseme]

Cheers for the info ^^ I like the idea of using them to trigger effects such a pyros.
Jojo Mayer has a couple of triggers on his kit, and their sound guy uses them alongside his laptop and mixing desk.

[Zildjian]

The thing i don't understand about triggers is people buy really expensive kits and put em on, when you get the same sound with a crappy £100 kit from argos.

I hate that. The thing lately ive seen thats quite awesome is drummers using a mixture or triggered and acoustic sounds, they do it because with just mic's sometimes toms, bass etc get lost in the music. They use a program for the triggers called Drumagog. Lang does it on his new dvd. The kit sounds incredible and not electric sounding at all. I think Gavin Harrison does that to, maybe someone can back me up on that...

[-TGP-]

^^A trigger or a cheap drum kit?


Trigger for my kick.

[billdrum]

For a while, back in the late 90's, I did both trigger and mic my kick. It worked OK....gives a nice mix of acoustic depth and "produced" punch. It just got to be a hassle after a while. I also experimented with triggering sounds from my snare, layering other sounds in with the mic'd snare itself.

[Toaster]

I trigger my kick drum. Mainly it's because I want my band and I to be able to hear my kick in every situation. We usually play run-down local bars and clubs, and they don't have the best PA, mics, or monitoring system. If I were to mic my acoustic kick sound, it'd just be a rumble to the band and the audience. Triggers allow me to get my ideal sound in any situation.

Also they sound amazing when played at 100000 bpm.

[Damo]

the only reason they're used is because at such high speeds, it simply isn't possible to play loud enough to be heard.
Untrue - There are MANY more uses for triggers than the one you mention

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

well, this may be a really dumb question, but...

do you have to make the pre-determined sound, or do the triggers come with the sound that they will make?

like would you have to run it through a mixer and get the sound you want first, then that would be the sound it would produse, or no?

[scottyhons]

well, this may be a really dumb question, but...

do you have to make the pre-determined sound, or do the triggers come with the sound that they will make?

like would you have to run it through a mixer and get the sound you want first, then that would be the sound it would produse, or no?

I'm no trigger expert either. I would assume, however, that the trigger would be wired into a drum module, loaded with drum sounds. It's those sounds that would then go through the PA system.


One question that i have on triggers: if you use them in a club with an unmiced kit, wouldn't the acoustic sounds of the kit compromise the 'electric' sounds? ie, if you put a trigger on your snare drum wired in to play an electronic sounding snare, every time you hit the drum the audience would hear both, no? So, follow up question/comment: You could, in theory, put a dampener pad on the drum, and then the triggered sound is all the audience would hear.... as long as the drum still vibrated enough to trigger it. I've never tried this, but i'd be interested in the results.

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

I'm no trigger expert either. I would assume, however, that the trigger would be wired into a drum module, loaded with drum sounds. It's those sounds that would then go through the PA system.


One question that i have on triggers: if you use them in a club with an unmiced kit, wouldn't the acoustic sounds of the kit compromise the 'electric' sounds? ie, if you put a trigger on your snare drum wired in to play an electronic sounding snare, every time you hit the drum the audience would hear both, no? So, follow up question/comment: You could, in theory, put a dampener pad on the drum, and then the triggered sound is all the audience would hear.... as long as the drum still vibrated enough to trigger it. I've never tried this, but i'd be interested in the results.

you can buy a mesh head.

it says they work with those.

[DrummingBen]

I'm no trigger expert either. I would assume, however, that the trigger would be wired into a drum module, loaded with drum sounds. It's those sounds that would then go through the PA system.


One question that i have on triggers: if you use them in a club with an unmiced kit, wouldn't the acoustic sounds of the kit compromise the 'electric' sounds? ie, if you put a trigger on your snare drum wired in to play an electronic sounding snare, every time you hit the drum the audience would hear both, no? So, follow up question/comment: You could, in theory, put a dampener pad on the drum, and then the triggered sound is all the audience would hear.... as long as the drum still vibrated enough to trigger it. I've never tried this, but i'd be interested in the results.

Usually you want both sounds, ie you get a good sound guy or something to make them both sound good. If you just want the electronic noise, buy an electric kit. The trigger enhances the acoustic, not replace it.








I hope

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Untrue - There are MANY more uses for triggers than the one you mention

That was the only one I could really think of, I'm sure there are more uses.

[Damo]

One question that i have on triggers: if you use them in a club with an unmiced kit, wouldn't the acoustic sounds of the kit compromise the 'electric' sounds? ie, if you put a trigger on your snare drum wired in to play an electronic sounding snare, every time you hit the drum the audience would hear both, no? So, follow up question/comment: You could, in theory, put a dampener pad on the drum, and then the triggered sound is all the audience would hear.... as long as the drum still vibrated enough to trigger it. I've never tried this, but i'd be interested in the results.
Correct!

Have a read of this document I wrote - it may help you!

http://members.westnet.com.au/petrilli/triggers.pdf

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

could you run them through a mixer?

like... make a sound you want it to make on a mixer and use that.

or do you have to use a module?

[Damo]

If you want to hear anything you have to use a module, because neither triggers nor a mixer carry sounds onboard.

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

ooooo.

i see.

makes sense now.

thanks.

[-TGP-]

I was told ddrum ones come with a default sound.