Cradle of Filth/Dimmu Borgir

[Invicta_Veritas]

Shunned in the black metal thread and ignored in the death metal thread, these bands nonetheless have fans such as myself. So I decided to create a place for them here.

This thread is for intelligent discussion of the bands and their work; I will eat the babies and families of anyone who comes in with "omg CoF aren't trOo" and sh*t like that. Lay off, if you don't like them, leave the thread.

Having said that, I am excited for the new Dimmu (anybody have a link yet?) and disappointed by the newest Cradle........

[Cocaine]

The new Dummy Burger is actually pretty good, and the last Dreidel of Filth album was actually decent, much better than Nymphetamine.

[Concubine]

haven't heard of new Dimmu, Thornography was surprisingly enjoyable though

[Det_Nosnip]

New Dimmu is great, actually. I was surprised.

[ArcLite]

What's the name of the new DB album?

[Cocaine]

New Dimmu is great, actually. I was surprised.

It's not as puny as DCA. It sounds, to me, like a more "Extreme" Masquerade Infernale.

The only thing I don't like is how every song title starts with "The".

It's called "In Sorte Diaboli"

[FatalEnergy]

Dimmu Borgir I can't call Black Metal, but Cradle of Filth is something I'll never be able to bring myself to listen to

[Cocaine]

Dimmu Borgir I can call Black Metal, but Cradle of Filth is something I'll never be able to bring myself to listen to

Their new album is definitely not even close to BM though. Not even a shred in my ears.

[Invicta_Veritas]

You guys actually like Thornography? You people are insane. It's crap compared to anything else they've ever done. I mean, it's listenable, but still relative crap.


Cocaine: You have a serious issue with song names, and you should get it checked by a doctor.

[Cocaine]

You guys actually like Thornography? You people are insane. It's crap compared to anything else they've ever done. I mean, it's listenable, but still relative crap.


Cocaine: You have a serious issue with song names, and you should get it checked by a doctor.

Wha?

And you can't tell me Thornography is worse than Nymphetamine

[Invicta_Veritas]

You have issues with Nile song names being dumb, and now you don't like the fact that Dimmu song titles start with "the". Come on now.


And Thornography is the worst that Cradle has ever put out, maybe not musically, but definitely vocally. It's the least powerful vocal performance from Dani ever.

[Cocaine]

You have issues with Nile song names being dumb, and now you don't like the fact that Dimmu song titles start with "the". Come on now.


And Thornography is the worst that Cradle has ever put out, maybe not musically, but definitely vocally. It's the least powerful vocal performance from Dani ever.

The "The" thing was a joke. I hate Nile song titles because they're pretentious and pretty gay overall.

And Dani Filth is a weak vocalist, so it's never been a make or break thing for me. He screams improperly and he's paying for it, but I still think it's a better album.

[Invicta_Veritas]

The "The" thing was a joke. I hate Nile song titles because they're pretentious and pretty gay overall.

And Dani Filth is a weak vocalist, so it's never been a make or break thing for me. He screams improperly and he's paying for it, but I still think it's a better album.


You're pretty gay overall. :p


Anyway, I don't think Dani is a "weak" vocalist. Every other album has been fine, but this one is full of dumb spoken vocals and crappy clean singing.


And Dani doesn't scream improperly; he utilizes a dangerous technique which uses inhaling to scream. It's something that can be pulled off, but doing it improperly can render you unable to talk, let alone sing. Dani appears to be just fine.


I don't mind the music of Thornography now that I think on it, but the vocal performance just ruins it for me.

[Cocaine]

It's improper if it's having a negative effect on his vocal performance. That's why he's "weaker" on this new album. He can't hit the same high notes he used to.

[Invicta_Veritas]

I don't really see a whole lot wrong with Nymphetimine either though. It's just as good if not better than Thornography, as both are far worse than Cruelty and the Beast or Midian or even Dusk and Her Embrace. Early CoF conquers all.



By the Way, why does everyone I hear have such a problem with Old Man's Child?

[Cocaine]

By the Way, why does everyone I hear have such a problem with Old Man's Child?

They make shitty music.

[Invicta_Veritas]

They make poopty music.

No they don't.

[Cocaine]

Yeah they do. If they didnt, everyone wouldn't have such a problem with them.

[Invicta_Veritas]

No, they don't. And just because people have a problem with something doesn't mean it's not good.

[DudeIRuleAtGuitar]

CoF opener for thornography I thought was surprisingly very good, the rest of the album is meh.

I am downloading Dimmu's new leaked album currently.

[Flynn]

I don't have a problem with Old Man's Child, love their music, and yea most of the people I know hate them, so....big deal. I like it :chug:



N.P. Twilight Damnation

[Invicta_Veritas]

CoF opener for thornography I thought was surprisingly very good, the rest of the album is meh.

I am downloading Dimmu's new leaked album currently.

You. Link. Me. Now.








Please?

[FatalEnergy]

Old Man's Child's First album is pretty good. The rest I couldn't stand

[Flynn]

I didn't like Vermin at all when I bought it, but it kinda grew on me, like vines.

[Invicta_Veritas]

In Defiance of Existance is pretty good IMO.

[eug008]

Old Dimmu is pretty pwn. The only thing I enjoy about new DB are Vortex's vocals.

[FatalEnergy]

Old Dimmu is pretty pwn. The only thing I enjoy about new DB are Vortex's vocals.

Just listen to Borknagar or the new Arcturus then!

[eug008]

That I do :)

From what I've heard off their latest though is quite alright.

[Luc214]

It's improper if it's having a negative effect on his vocal performance. That's why he's "weaker" on this new album. He can't hit the same high notes he used to.

True, but couldn't that be due to the fact that he's aging?

Messiah can't sing like he did on Nightfall anymore, Bruce Dickinson doesn't quite have the range he used to.

I like Dimmu Borgir, even some stuff off DCA. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant though, wow that album is damn good. Their new one is good as well.

I really like CoF, I like all their releases up through Thornography, except for Bitter Suites To Succubi.

[Invicta_Veritas]

Steven Tyler and Axl rose can't hit the same notes they used to either. It happens with age. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are singing improperly.


Drugs and alcohol will also do that, although I know Dani isn't a druggy.



I do have to say they are awesome live.....


...but Dimmu, although they sound great, are boring as hell live.

[Luc214]

You. Link. Me. Now.








Please?

Check your rep.

[Lord Abortion]

I'm confused as to why two very different bands are in the same thread?

[AA-12]

As of a week ago:

I hated everything CoF and Dimmu Borgir had ever done, except Progenies because that intro is the most epic thing ever.

As of now:

I DLed the new Dimmu hoping that they somehow didn't still suck, and they actually don't. It sounds good. An album that'll stay in my collection :) Other than that though, I don't like any of their other albums.

[Eakflanderyof]

I really don't like CoF or Dimmu Borgir, but Dimmu Borgir does have some really cool, epic songs like Sorgens Kammer Del II and Progenies of the Great Apocolypse. Sorgens Kammer Del II has an awesome intro. I own the re-recorded Stormblast and it's merely an average album. The middle section of the album is pretty good though.

Old Man's Child sucks hard imo. They does some cool leads every now and then, but it doesn't make up for the boring as hell rhythm sections.

Oh, and I'm seeing Dimmu Borgir live on May 29th.

[Lord Abortion]

Heh, seeing Cradle April 19th. Third time now:D

[Invicta_Veritas]

Check your rep.


I love you forever.

[Eliminator]

i'd expect a fag like tihs to start a thread on fag bands

[Shattered_Future]

Cradle has a few decent songs, but overall I don't like them that much.

I don't like Dimmu Borgir though, but I haven't heard the new album, which most people say is quite good. I'll have to get it.

[Invicta_Veritas]

After having listened to it all day, I conclude that the new Dimmu is meh. It's good, but not really too different from their other stuff.

[VomitStainedCretin]

Heh, seeing Cradle April 19th. Third time now:D

April 30th, second for me. I havent listened to Cradle much in the last month though since Ive been working my way through Metallica and Megadeth's back catalogue and listening to Mastodon in preparation for last night's concert (which was, to say the least, insane).

[Shadows]

After having listened to it all day, I conclude that the new Dimmu is meh. It's good, but not really too different from their other stuff.
Really? I thought the new album was quite different from their old stuff. Also the best thing they've done since Enthrone Darkness Triumphant.

[Det_Nosnip]

The lack of lame vocal effects was a major plus in my book, not to mention the addition of Hellhammer.

[Aakon_Keetreh]

Could someone send me the link? :D

[Det_Nosnip]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=ITVA%2CITVA%3A2006-02%2CITVA%3Aen&q=In+Sorte+Diaboli+torrent

[Moon Flavor]

Directed at one of behemoth_fruitcake's posts on the first page: I like Old Man's Child a lot better than Dimmu Borgir. They're pretty much the same band, except OMC isn't as repetitive and has better songwriting.

[Luc214]

Really? I thought the new album was quite different from their old stuff. Also the best thing they've done since Enthrone Darkness Triumphant.

Agreed.

DCA is pretty stale, and Puritanical isn't very consistant.

[Shattered_Future]

Hellhammer was on drums? You gotta love how all the parts on the new album where Vortex sings are ripped straight out of Arcturus's playbook. Maybe that contributed a bit to it.

New album isn't actually that bad. It's kinda cool.

[AA-12]

Vortex vocals on this one are amazing.

The lack of lame vocal effects was a major plus in my book, not to mention the addition of Hellhammer.

Yeah, but even when he uses the effects on this album it fits great.

[Shattered_Future]

That's true. Last album, having every single effect on the face of the planet on all the time really hurt the album. He uses the pitch shifter to great effect.

One thing I don't like is the bass drum sound. It's way too punchy, even if it's triggered to hell.

[AA-12]

I didn't notice the drum thing, but then again when I was listening to the album I was just like omfggooddimmualbumwtf

[Det_Nosnip]

That's true. Last album, having every single effect on the face of the planet on all the time really hurt the album. He uses the pitch shifter to great effect.

One thing I don't like is the bass drum sound. It's way too punchy, even if it's triggered to hell.

Meh...it works for the genre. Compared to Barker's incredibly weak sounding "clicks," these are much better samples.

[Shattered_Future]

True, but I always LOVED Hellhammer's sound in Arcturus. These ones just didn't translate as well.

[Det_Nosnip]

Meh...I don't particularly care for his sound...too processed. It worked thematically for the Sham Mirrors, but IMO a more natural sound would have worked much better for LMI. Everything but his bass drums actually sounded pretty good on the new record, but his bass drums sounded like poo IMO.

His playing, on the other hand, is fantastic.

[Luc214]

What exactly are drum triggers? I've heard of them but I'm not sure what they actually are.

[Stormrider]

What's everyone idea of what DB best album is ? I'll give it a listen. I've only heard all of EPM and it happens to have my favorite Dimmu song, Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranne, but the rest is pretty average, as I remembered it. Should give it another listen.

[AA-12]

The new album is the best by far

[Luc214]

This is how I see Dimmu's albums, in order from best to worst (on the ones I've heard)

1. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant (4/5)

2. Spiritual Black Dimensions (3.5/5)

3. In Sorte Diaboli (3.5/5)

4. Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia (3/5)

5. Death Cult Armageddon (2.5/5)

[Stormrider]

Enthroned Darkness Trriumphant seems to be liked. I thnk I'll get that one...sometime in the future lol.

[Luc214]

The top 3 I mentioned are very much worth getting IMO.

[FatalEnergy]

That Puritanical whatever album sucks so badly. Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranny is pretty awesome, but the rest of that album is abysmal.

[Shattered_Future]

What exactly are drum triggers? I've heard of them but I'm not sure what they actually are.

Basically, you replace all your drumheads with pads that are connected to a trigger. The trigger senses vibrations when you hit the pads and plays a prerecorded drum loop. So, basically, you could tap the kit, and it sounds like you're hitting it normal strength.

It makes it a lot easier to play fast stuff, because you can play softly yet quickly and still make it sound loud enough.

[Eliminator]

yeah its basically for people that cant play their instruments because they suck

[Luc214]

^Or for people who want their kits to sound a certain way live.

[Eliminator]

uh no

[pate]

^Or for people who want their kits to sound a certain way live.

You didn't know what triggers were 20 minutes ago, now you're defending them?

[FatalEnergy]

yeah its basically for people that cant play their instruments because they suck


I'd agree with you.

Hellhammer is really good though, I have no idea why he'd want to use triggers.

[Thor]

I knew this thread would be really lame.

I like both bands alot, but I hate most of their fans.

[Luc214]

You didn't know what triggers were 20 minutes ago, now you're defending them?

I assume some people would use them for that purpose, and not because they can't play their instrument.

[Cocaine]

He uses triggers because they're required to actually make the drum hits audible. Not all triggers are cheating.

We need one of those drummers to come in. Det? Futuro?

[Eliminator]

all triggers are cheating!!!

[Thor]

Nicholas Barker owns all of you.

[Cocaine]

Nick Barker's just some fat slob who can play really fast. Whoopie.

[Thor]

I love the fact that he's ****ing obese.

And he actually does play some pretty cool beats in plenty of Dimmu's songs. The first I can think of is "Hybrid Stigmata - The Apostasy" from Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia.

[Luc214]

Nick Barker's just some fat slob who can play really fast. Whoopie.

Is he really fat? :lol:

[Thor]

Is he really fat? :lol:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WCqxnbfcW1Q

There's proof that he is fat and can play really fast. But he's definitely more creative than most people give him credit for.

[Eliminator]

he's in dimmu borgir

how can he be creative?

[Thor]

Good one. Just listen to his work on Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia and Death Cult Armageddon. In between the blast beats and insane double bass, there's plenty of little fills and catchy parts that most people look over.

[Shattered_Future]

Look at 'im jiggle! :lol:

The majority of people who use triggers are cheating, but there are a few who actually use them to great effect.

[Cocaine]

Triggers don't necessarily mean you can barely hit the drum and have the same effect. They're (i think) used to make each hit make a distinguished sound, since if you were to play at a ridiculously high-speed it'd be muffled garbage.

[Shattered_Future]

Hence, you can tap the kit, and still have said "distinguished sound".

[Cocaine]

Nick Barker is fat.

[FatalEnergy]

Hella fat. You'd think he'd be in shape with how fast he's playing.

[Eliminator]

nick porker

[Cocaine]

His wrists are thin

[RetiredAt21]

Hella fat. You'd think he'd be in shape with how fast he's playing.

That's what I always thought.

[pate]

Think how fat he'd be if he didn't play.

[RetiredAt21]

Hahahaha, he'd be 3 or even 4 times bigger than he is now.

[Det_Nosnip]

Erm...*ahem* I believe a drummer was called?

"Triggers" are usually placed on acoustic drums, not pads, although there are also electronic drumkits which use similar technology. Other than that, SF explained it well enough...the trigger senses the vibration caused by the stroke and fires a pre-recorded MIDI sample, which is what the audience hears. They're generally not dynamic sensetive, which means that, as SF put it, you can basically "tap" your kit and produce loud sounds. This is especially the case with bass drums...if you watch Barker play, his feet barely even move.

Past a certain point (16ths at around 200 BPM), untriggered bass drums become lost in the mix, particularly live, which is why most death/black metal drummers use them. Also, the samples used generally have a very stacatto (short) sustain, which makes it much easier to distinguish individual notes when the triggered drums are played quickly. Unfortunately, the drawback to this is that longer notes (such as the strong quarter note feel of a standard rock beat, for example) sound like utter garbage because of the lack of sustain. Triggered drums also tend to have a very strong "attack," even to the point of producing no actual tone and just attack (the horrid "clicky" sound).

Triggers aren't really "cheating." It isn't as though the triggers will automatically correct rhythmic fluctuations or unevenness, and you have to actually hit the drums in order to make a sound. Dave Lombardo likes to tout his horn because he doesn't use triggers, but then he never goes past 190 BPM or so...

[pate]

Dave Lombardo toots his horn on lots of subjects...

[Cocaine]

So in a nutshell, we were both right. Sort of. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Invicta_Veritas]

aww, damn, I missed a whole triggers arguement.......

I could have cleared that one up, but yea thanks for doing so ....

[AA-12]

I normally would say triggers suck but I have an e-kit :X

[RetiredAt21]

I think Through The Eyes Of The Dead uses a trigger.

[Shattered_Future]

I always thought you put special drumheads on for a trigger...the drummer for Galloglass said he replaced all his drumheads with drumheads that don't make "drum sounds" (for lack of a better term), and then ran it through a trigger system.

[Luc214]

I think Through The Eyes Of The Dead uses a trigger.

Sounds like it.

I've always wondered why some drum kicks on albums sound strange.

[RetiredAt21]

I like Through The Eyes Of The Dead. Well, their first release anyways...

[Luc214]

I like Through The Eyes Of The Dead. Well, their first release anyways...

So do I. I like Bloodlust. I don't know if that's what you mean by first release.

[RetiredAt21]

I can't remember what it's called, it was before Bloodlust. And better.

[Angmar]

TBH niether bands excite me...

[Spoonful of Shame]

I like the new Dimmu album. I was listening to it last night. good stuff.

[Det_Nosnip]

I always thought you put special drumheads on for a trigger...the drummer for Galloglass said he replaced all his drumheads with drumheads that don't make "drum sounds" (for lack of a better term), and then ran it through a trigger system.

Probably mesh heads or pads. Some people will do that, but it's not as common.

Triggering anything but bass drums is also freaking dumb.

[Oj0]

My top 5 albums

1. For All Tid - wow, what an album. I especially like Under Korpens Vinger and Over Bleknende Blands Til Domm

2. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant - another brilliant release, quite a contrast to For All Tid. Mourning Palace, Entrance, Prudence's Fall and A Succubus In Pasture

3. Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropy - Blessings Upon The Throne Of Tyranny and Kings Of The Carnival Creation

4. Death Cult Armageddon - Proganies Of The Great Apocalypse, Prudence's Fall and A Saccubus In Rapture

5. Spiritual Black Dimensions - Reptile

Overall a pretty decent band who used to be brilliant (IMHO). Their music videos are comically eccentric or boring though. Ok flame away

[Oj0]

Corrections (Posted last messsage @ 12:24AM)

2. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant - another brilliant release, quite a contrast to For All Tid. Mourning Palace, Entrance, Prudence's Fall and A Succubus In Pasture

4. Death Cult Armageddon - Proganies Of The Great Apocalypse, Blood Hunger Doctrine and Allehelgens Død I Helveds Rike.

Satan My Master and Tormentor Of Christian Souls have decent music with emo lyrics

[RetiredAt21]

Are you ****ing retarded?

[CityOfEvil]

Im not a Black Metal fan, but I have For all Tid and I like it. What is the best album I want to download it.

[Odin88]

it saddens me to see hellhammer in dimmu and not arcturus anymore :'(

[RetiredAt21]

Arcturus is gay.

[Odin88]

if arcturus is gay than Dimmu is the zenith of unfathmoble homosexuality.
arturus are great.

[Dimmu Burger]

I greatly enjoy Dimmu Borgir. They, while they aren't black metal, got me into black metal.

Cradle of Filth on the other hand, I tried to get into but ultimately gave up. I listened to like 5 of their albums and the vocals just get too annoying when he does his really high falsetto thing.


Lol right before I got ready to submit this post, Dimmu Borgir came on AOL internet radio's black metal station. Irony!

[Shadows]

While not the least bit black metal, Dimmu and Cradle are excellent bands. They definitely offer something in metal that differs greatly from the "expected" extreme metal, they're very unique and make great extreme music.

[Shattered_Future]

Arcturus is gay.

They're better than Dimmu Borgir though.

/likes Arcturus.

[Dimmu Burger]

I still have to pick up the Arcturus albums that don't have Vortex on them. I got into them cause im a huge Vortex fan but I've got to hear the other guy. Apparently he is awesome.

[Shadows Within]

Their new album is definitely not even close to BM though. Not even a shred in my ears.

id say its got its moments BM wise but it's mainly Symphonic Black Metal amirite?


it saddens me to see hellhammer in dimmu and not arcturus anymore :'(atleast he's still tearing it up though *plays 3:05 of The Chosen Legacy*
Triggering anything but bass drums is also freaking dumb.
*cough* new Behemoth *cough*

[Dimmu Burger]

Symphonic Black Metal

Sounds about right to me.

[Shattered_Future]

*cough* new Behemoth *cough*

I think that album is a snare drum with the other instruments backing it.

[Shadows Within]

if you hear the osnd with warrel singing right after the chorus he deffinitely is using triggers.


i could be worng but im pretty sure he is.

[Shadows]

The bass drums are the only thing triggered on the new Behemoth.

[Invicta_Veritas]

Why the hell was this bumped?

[Hbp]

My only thing to say in this thread is that Dimmu rapes CoF.

[Invicta_Veritas]

when he does his really high falsetto thing.






It's called "inhale screaming".

[Blashyrkh]

My only thing to say in this thread is that Dimmu rapes CoF.

100% correct!

[Forlorn Hope]

It's called "inhale screaming".

Or sometimes "vocal cord raping". :p

Anyway, so I haven't really heard much from the new Dimmu album. Is it any good? How does it compare with some of their other albums (I know its subjective but still wondering). I did notice that all the tracks started with the word "The".

[Blashyrkh]

The Offering(I think thats what it was called) is the only one I heard. I thought it was pretty good.

[Invicta_Veritas]

I like it. Better than the last couple for sure.

[Hbp]

The Offering(I think thats what it was called) is the only one I heard. I thought it was pretty good.

The Serpent Offering. Ehh, I dunno. I have ISD, DCA, and EDT. EDT is the best, then I dunno.

[Invicta_Veritas]

I have thier entire discography, and I believe it is in the top 3. (For All Tid, Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia, and In Sorte Diaboli).

[Dimmu Burger]

It's called "inhale screaming".

He is inhaling when he does that? dang! i tried inhales and they hurt, so I stopped.

Anyways, I enjoy the new Dimmu Borgir album. Its more guitar oriented than previous albums and the keyboards, while good, aren't as loud.

[Odin88]

I still have to pick up the Arcturus albums that don't have Vortex on them. I got into them cause im a huge Vortex fan but I've got to hear the other guy. Apparently he is awesome.

Garm, yeah he's sweet, he has an interesting voice. you might like it you might hate it. he sings out of key sometimes (not sure if it was purposeful cause he can sing) and on Aspera Hiems Symphonia he screams, they are astounding screams, very dissonant, desperate and at times pathetic, but it suits the mood.

[masscows]

should rotting christ be discussed in here as well? they don't sit well with black metallers.

[Dimmu Burger]

Garm, yeah he's sweet, he has an interesting voice. you might like it you might hate it. he sings out of key sometimes (not sure if it was purposeful cause he can sing) and on Aspera Hiems Symphonia he screams, they are astounding screams, very dissonant, desperate and at times pathetic, but it suits the mood.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to pick some up when I trade in my other 300 some cds, lol.

[Invicta_Veritas]

should rotting christ be discussed in here as well? they don't sit well with black metallers.

That's because only thier early stuff was BM. The last few albums are more Blackened Death.


Dimmu: Dude, don't. Only do it with the supervision of a trained professional; it is very dangerous and can permanently damage your vocal chords.

[Dimmu Burger]

Dimmu: Dude, don't. Only do it with the supervision of a trained professional; it is very dangerous and can permanently damage your vocal chords.

Oh trust me I don't. I can do plenty with exhale screams and they don't hurt (assuming I warm up).