12's @ 100BPM? Is it possible, or is it a misprint?

[dpakman91]

On page 43 in Joe Morello's "Master Studies," there is a "table of time" exercise. It involves playing all of the time intervals between one note per click through 12 notes per click with a metronome.

In the opposing page, Morello says you should be able to get it up to 100 BPM. Looking at it with my teacher, we weren't sure who could do it...even Alan Dawson could only do 32nd notes (8 per click) at 135, which is NOT fast enough to do 12 notes per click at 100.

Thoughts from anyone?

[MNdrummer21]

Well, I don't what to tell you. 12's at 100 is nuts, I don't even think people who do WFD are that fast. I don't Joe himself can do that, tbh.

[Jezen]

Hey cool we got peeing jpgs.

[Futuro]

I do that exercise alot at 60BPM. I wouldnt really worry about the speed of it though.

[Josiah]

Not sure what 12 at 100 comes out to for 32nds. That's 1/3 more yes?

Well DCI snare guys can get up to the 140-50 range, so that would put them in there.

Do able yes, just might take some nutty chops.

[Det_Nosnip]

Are you serious? 140-150? Singles, or doubles?

[Josiah]

Singles.

Jeff queen hit's 32nds @ 155bpm in his tribute solo, there are some others that call for such speeds as well.

Check out the last few solos in the 'Rudimental CookBook' they call for mixed sticking 32nds at 130+ if I recall right.


If I really wantted too, and dedicated maybe 30 mins a day to singles. No doubt I could hit the 130 mark. If I spent 4-8+ hours a day just on my hands, who knows.. but that's what dci guys do.


*EG - this is why the WFD is a joke. DCI level players blow them away, they just don't involve on a whole with WFD because it's a joke. And these are guys that are 21 or under. It's hard to say what age'd out DCI players who have kept up (many many of them) are playing at now a days.

[Gary Lover]

Singles.

Jeff queen hit's 32nds @ 155bpm in his tribute solo, there are some others that call for such speeds as well.

Sorry to be a stickler, but I have the authorized notated version of Tribute. It is in the book "Violent Ice Cream" by tapspace productions, and it is not that fast of a tempo. I know some of the singles are pretty blazin', seeing as how I worked the solo up, but they are not that fast even in his video. I think the key with things like this is clarity and phrasing more than anything. A great thing Vinnie once said is that it isn't so much clocking in your speed with a metronome as HOW you play your singles, to make them SOUND fast.

Check out the last few solos in the 'Rudimental CookBook' they call for mixed sticking 32nds at 130+ if I recall right.

Mixed stickings are pretty easy to play at fast tempos as it is more a control factor than a speed factor. There are a ton of these in DCI and PAS snare solos like Tribute.


If I really wantted too, and dedicated maybe 30 mins a day to singles. No doubt I could hit the 130 mark. If I spent 4-8+ hours a day just on my hands, who knows.. but that's what dci guys do.

Yeah, unless you have some sort of disability, anyone can do this. But I remember hearing about Jeff Queen working at gas stations before he 'made it' doing the educational stuff. Too bad for the other countless guys who can't do anything with their DCI training. I don't mean to knock it; there are tons of talented players there, and I love Jeff Queen's playing, but it is a very select market to be working in. I prefer to dabble in it rather than devote all my time to something I don't feel is very practical or useful musically. But the passion is certainly there for others who eat this stuff up 24/7.


*EG - this is why the WFD is a joke. DCI level players blow them away, they just don't involve on a whole with WFD because it's a joke. And these are guys that are 21 or under. It's hard to say what age'd out DCI players who have kept up (many many of them) are playing at now a days.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support WFD. At all. But I know Mike Mangini and he has worked very hard to be able to do what he does. He can do over 1200 strokes in a minute (12 per click at 100 bpm) That's pretty intense. Unmusical and shallow, but difficult. That is 32nd notes played faster than quarter note = 120 sustained for a full minute. I do not believe a lot of DCI guys can do this. Common sense dictates that duration really plays a huge factor in the judge of your hand speed. Many of the DCI solos either have short bursts over fast singles, which may be much faster than 32nds at 120, or play them in a "breakdown", ala slow-fast-and back down to slow again style. I know that using bursts of singles I can play very fast 32nds for a measure or two at high tempos. But what really is the measuring stick here? Is there a amount of time you sustain the grouping at which dictates that you can go that fast? If I play 32nds at 150 bpm for 1 beat does it mean I can go that fast? I think it is a very grey area.

When you say Jeff Queen hits 32nds at 155 bpm how long is that sustained for? In what context? How many beats or measures? Get it?

So in closing, yes it is possible, but not practical. It is better to use the rhythm tree as a way to mess around with phrasing ideas and control your rhythmic vocabulary than to gauge speed.

[Josiah]

Wow, that was a whole lot of talking that didn't have to do with the discussion at hand at all!

Back on topic -

To TS - Yes, possible. Just takes work. But don't work on speed for speeds sake.

[Gary Lover]

just correcting your misinformation :)

[metallas]

You can thinkof the 12 notes as 2 groups of sixtuplets, like playing sixtuplets at 200 tempo. To me it's impossible*.

*after some thoughts, it's not imossible but it needs dedication.

[Grumma]

Wow, that was a whole lot of talking that didn't have to do with the discussion at hand at all!

Back on topic -

To TS - Yes, possible. Just takes work. But don't work on speed for speeds sake.

If you want speed you might as well work on your cowbell singles :cool:

[Jezen]

Jeff queen hit's 32nds @ 155bpm in his tribute solo, there are some others that call for such speeds as well.

That's 1240 strokes per minute. World record kind of speed, just incase anyone missed that.

TS: 12s at 100 is 1200 s/pm. Possible, just very very fast.

[poopoogaypoonn]

Some DCI guys have entered WFD...

[the_pure_drummer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmCEPBlZmN4

[Remonative]

Some DCI guys have entered WFD...

Yes they have. They enter all the time and usually do very well. I think anybody likes free drumsets. The best known DCI guy to win was Randy Briggs two years ago who was also the DCI speed drum champion since they have a contest of their own. Last year another name DCI speed guy placed second. I keep up with DCI stuff because of some friends who are instructors.

[Gary Lover]

Yeah, there are for sure some damn fast DCI guys, but I Josiah was a little misguided in his attempt at "enlightening" us all as usual :lol:

[Remonative]

Yeah, there are for sure some damn fast DCI guys, but I Josiah was a little misguided in his attempt at "enlightening" us all as usual :lol:

Yeah, he said that DCI players "blow them away" and "they just don't involve on a whole with WFD because it's a joke," which are exaggerations. They enter quite a bit, they do well, and they've had one winner in six years which is a good percentage. But Briggs isn't near as fast for a one minute endurance run as the top WFD guys. You were right that winning that WFD contest is about long term endurance. Those WFD guys are geared for that. That's what they do. They're usually not the fastest in short spurts but are freakish in the long haul. The two approaches to speed can't be compared.

[Pearldrumguy]

Seth Davis does singles at like 151 for a minute at like 9 inches....