Why is raking bad?

[o b s]

I rake, I've never noticed it affecting my playing, I don't even think about what I'm doing with my right hand. What exactly DOES raking do to adversely affect your playing? I'll probally drill it out of my playing at somepoint anyway (when I've got more time spare) just because 'everyone says so' but for now just out of interrest why is it such a bad thing to do?

Thanks.

[Left Shoe]

there is nothing wrong with raking.

/thread

[Moon Flavor]

Raking is good. It saves time and energy.

/elaborates on phil's post

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seriously, since when is there anything wrong with it?

[o b s]

Seriously, since when is there anything wrong with it?

Dunno, I just see 10 'and make sure you don't rake' posts every day.

[BenJammin]

Seriously, since when is there anything wrong with it?

Yeah, really.

My lawn looks terrible when I don't rake.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Dunno, I just see 10 'and make sure you don't rake' posts every day.

I've never been told not to rake. I've never seen posts that say not to rake.


Yeah, really.

My lawn looks terrible when I don't rake.

I didn't lol, but I cracked a smile. :D Like that but smaller. :) Like that but bigger.

[Drummer Freak 911]

Yeah, really.

My lawn looks terrible when I don't rake.

:lol:

But anyways, personally I don't see anything wrong with raking. But I've seen people says that it make you lose your stamina or something like that

[Jimbobntnr]

someone want to define raking for me? If it's a bad habit I probably do it.

[BenJammin]

someone want to define raking for me? If it's a bad habit I probably do it.

Raking is when you drag one finger up the strings to hit notes. As opposed to alternating your fingers.

[Jimbobntnr]

oh, I don't do that unless I get jammed up on positioning.

[Killer Fridge]

I thought that raking is where, say youre playing on the A string, I,M,I,M,I,M, then when going to the E string, instead of alternating the fingers, using the same finger that last plucked the A string to pluck the E string

EG

A- i,m,i,m,i,m-------m,i
E- ----------m,i,m,i----i,m,

[BenJammin]

I thought that raking is where, say youre playing on the A string, I,M,I,M,I,M, then when going to the E string, instead of alternating the fingers, using the same finger that last plucked the A string to pluck the E string

EG

A- i,m,i,m,i,m-------m,i
E- ----------m,i,m,i----i,m,

Isn't that what I just said? :upset:

[Drummer Freak 911]

Isn't that what I just said? :upset:

yes but examples are nice too :)

[Jimbobntnr]

yeah, I do that. economy of motion. no one ever points it out though, because they're too busy staring at my thumb peaking over the fretboard.

[Thonk]

I rake all the time.

[EADG]

The bad technique is the one you don't like

Or the one that sounds like ****.

[Riouken]

I've seen people say not to rake. I disagree. Jaco raked, manny people rake, raking is fine.

[Polyamarous]

Nout, but people like pitchfork will tell you raking is worse than the plague.

[Arrakakaka]

Raking is fine, bro.

I mostly use a pick. No skin off my arse.

[The jazz metal flum]

I read an interview somewhere with, I believe, audio slaves bassist and he said something about raking or something similar. Basically raking means that you can get an even tone when moving to the next string or note, because your fingers are diffenent meaning a different tone when each one strikes a string. or something like that

[White_Summer]

good luck not raking on an upright, absolutely nothing wrong with it, my teachers do it, electric or upright, their time is worth about 150 bucks an hour too so i think they know what they are sayin haha

[o b s]

This is basically what I wanted to hear :D.

[Thonk]

Just wondering, where did you see people saying raking is bad?

[o b s]

Just wondering, where did you see people saying raking is bad?

here and there, i'm sure you'll find some if you run a search

[Killer Fridge]

Theres been a few occasions in the begginers section where people have been saying that raking is the worst thing to arrive on a bass (or to that extent)

Yes your fingers must always be going 121212121212 even when going up strings and stuff, DO NOT GET INTO RAKING.
I still haven't completely broken the habit of raking, which means instead of going 12121212 my fingers sometimes maybe play twice before the other finger eg. 11211212212 sort of thing, this limits your speed and stamina.


/is not joking, check it out in the begginers section

[Left Shoe]

lets make fun of pitchfork

[Spaceman Spiff]

Limits speed and stamina?

That's just a lie.

[Killer Fridge]

Hey, they do it enough in the D&P forum.

"Another useful post from pitchfork"

:D

[Thonk]

If anything, 121212 all the time limits you. Raking is definitely useful.

Economical playing ftw

[pitchfork]

it's also like you might play two notes on one string with one finger then play the octave with a diferent one.
Thats when you shouldn't use raking.

it's a limitation on your speed and possibly your stamina, if you can master alternating then theres no need to use more than two fingers on complex patterns, its a hard habit to break

[funkyhoney]

just like every other technique ever conceived, it has a time and a place.

[Thunder Fingers]

"its important that you start on the next string with the next finger"

bah, goes much faster if you just jump.. look at geddy. one finger and plenty of fast enough when changing strings.

[funkyhoney]

people are too uptight about "correct" technique, all the famous people invented their own technique or made some kind of variation on it :p

[Thunder Fingers]

I gotta agree.

Geddy, Entwistle, Chris Squire aint famouse becouse they have "Corect" technique, I guess Entwistle had anything but corect technique.. flatfingered approach, fingers flying all over the place, both close and far from the fretboard.

[gaslight]

Raking isn't a horrendously bad habit, but I'd be much happier with my technique if I could weed it out. Playing with alternating fingers each time means you have stronger fingers and better control as well as better tone and articulation.

"Raking" isn't a word for a bad habit though, it's a word for a technique that has a time and place. If I was playing a chord I'd just rake the whole thing with one finger, nothing wrong with that, but for single note lines I try to discipline myself into using proper technique.

[Left Shoe]

it's also like you might play two notes on one string with one finger then play the octave with a diferent one.
Thats when you shouldn't use raking.

it's a limitation on your speed and possibly your stamina, if you can master alternating then theres no need to use more than two fingers on complex patterns, its a hard habit to break

i have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[funkyhoney]

i have no idea what you are trying to say here.

|------------
|------3-----
|-----------
|-1-1--------
--I--I--M

[equinox]

I honestly don't do it very often. I have, of course done it but personally I don't like it. However, I never heard that it was a bad thing,

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think what Pitchfork is talking about is even raking, just string skipping and alternating fingers...

Raking isn't just playing the same string more than once with the same finger, it's using that finger, kind of like some sort of lawn care equipment, to hit two or more strings, from high to low, with a single motion.

[Low_End_Communications]

This guy has made some of the most subjective, useless posts I've seen in a couple months.

"How should I play punk?"
"Raking = bad! Why?"
"How do you pick your notes?!"

Dude, suck it up and learn however the hell you want to. Half the members here are starting to sound as opinionated as Jeff Berlin.

[o b s]

This guy has made some of the most subjective, useless posts I've seen in a couple months.

"How should I play punk?"
"Raking = bad! Why?"
"How do you pick your notes?!"

Dude, suck it up and learn however the hell you want to. Half the members here are starting to sound as opinionated as Jeff Berlin.

Nonprovoked E-Anger. You have a bad day?

Punk thread was looking for tips from more experianced players of the genre, raking thread was asking the people who claimed it was bad WHY they claimed it was bad and the note choice thread was just because I thought it would be interresting to read. Would you rather the forum was empty and nodoby posted on it at all? Why do you check this forum at all if people posting angers you?

[Knifeboy]

The advantages of not raking is, that if you discipline yourself to always alternate between two fingers, keeping a tight rhythm and playing consistently is alot easier, seeing as you have a consistent motion of right hand going, wich also makes it easier to focus on what your left hand is doing.


Raking isn't a horrible thing to do though. It's just different

[Spaceman Spiff]

It seems to me that the people against raking are just making up reasons to say it's bad.

:lol:

I'm just going to be totally truthful here, I never lose focus of what my left hand is doing when I rake. I don't lose my rhythm or consistency. My stamina and speed are not negatively affected by raking. In fact, I will sometimes rake because it's faster than alternating fingers. Examples: Portrait Of Tracy, Donna Lee, Teen Town.

[Knifeboy]

I hope that wasn't a reply to my post, seeing as I didn't say anything about keeping a tight rhythm and being consistent was impossible while raking

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, you said that an advantage of always alternating, as opposed to raking, is that "keeping a tight rhythm and playing consistently is a lot easier." The songs I mentioned all have parts where raking is used to hit a series of notes on separate strings where alternating would just be ridiculous and complicate things.

[Knifeboy]

For you, maybe, but for someone who's always been alternating, it would probably be the other way around....

[irishslappop]

Half the members here are starting to sound as opinionated as Jeff Berlin.

i AM Jeff Berlin.



















:wave:

[Spaceman Spiff]

Meh. I rake because it's faster, easier, and more efficient.

I can either play the following 16th note triplet with one finger using raking, or alternate between two fingers for each note. I find raking to be the better way to do it.

G|-2--
D|--4-
A|---4

[Knifeboy]

I would play that with alternating, because it's faster, easier, and more efficient.. For me.

[Jimbobntnr]

Yo soy Jeff Berlin

[Left Shoe]

|------------
|------3-----
|-----------
|-1-1--------
--I--I--M

thats not raking, and why would you even do that

[BenJammin]

Yo soy Jeff Berlin

Soy como Jeff Berlin.

[irishslappop]

Ich bin Jeff Berlin

[Polyamarous]

Anyway, wasn't it James Jamerson or someone who only played with 1 finger?

Plus he was really good.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I would play that with alternating, because it's faster, easier, and more efficient.. For me.

LOL!







Just answer me this, why put down raking? It's as valid as any other technique.

You don't do it, that's fine. I'm not putting down alternating between fingers, I use all five on my right hand (but mainly just alternating between index and middle), but you still put down raking and say that alternating is the better way.

[Knifeboy]

What?.. I never put down raking, at all

Raking isn't a horrible thing to do though. It's just different

[Spaceman Spiff]

What?.. I never put down raking, at all

...

Let me quote the same post you just quoted.

The advantages of not raking...

[Knifeboy]

.. What's that got to do with putting down raking?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Ugh... this argument is getting boring.

Okay, you said the advantages of not raking, which seems to imply the inferiority of raking. You say that alternating makes it easier to keep a tight rhythm and play consistently, the consistent playing leads to greater focus on the fretting hand. To me, that says alternating > raking.

Raking or not, I don't really focus much on what my right hand does, whatever happens naturally happens, I don't feel the need to regulate it. That's why I rake, that's why I alternate. As for using all five fingers on my right hand, that's just for my own amusement.

[Aleshire]

Sup guys.

I think it would be similar to guitar playing with a pick. When alternating picking you want to go up down up down. It economizes picking, and while theres no incredibly noticeable results it does affect your playing. Say you're playing a scale run like this

--------------------4-5-7---
--------------4-5-7----------
-------3-5-7-----------------
-3-5-7-----------------------

If you were to "rake" persay from the first string to the next you could potentially lose your flow of movement. When shredding I've found that "raking" completely slows me down, and that keeping a continuous alternating picking style I can play much faster.

Now back to fingerpicking. I believe this involves the same concept. My guitar instructor, who is a classical musician as well as a guitar and bass player, emphasizes to keep this alternating pattern when alternate picking.

Sweeping is different in the case of guitar, you obviously wouldnt alternate pick a sweeping pattern, I'm sure its most likely the same on bass. But if you're playing in an alternate picking/fingerpicking style then you should stick to the pattern to economize movement and increase your speed.

[Bass_swede]

I never thought of this, I probally do it sometimes. I can't think that it would sound any different, and who looks at such details anyway?

[Thonk]

I rake and will continue to do so.

[Jimbobntnr]

I promise not to rake while shredding...

[Aleshire]

If you dont care enough to get technical about your playing, then thats up to you.

[Jimbobntnr]

great! thanks.

[Thonk]

Alternate =/= economy

IMO, economy picking is doing what's easiest and best in a given situation. I don't always alternate pick when I play guitar, but that doesn't make me a bad guitar player.

[Aleshire]

Sup guys.

But if you're playing in an alternate picking/fingerpicking style then you should stick to the pattern to economize movement and increase your speed.

If you are sweeping, doing all downpicks or all up picks, or some wierd unorganized system of picking, then I'm not talking to you.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I never use a rake to sweep, brooms are way better.

[Aleshire]

exactly.

[Thonk]

If you are sweeping, doing all downpicks or all up picks, or some wierd unorganized system of picking, then I'm not talking to you.
No.

I can alternate pick very well. Just, alternate picking everything is stupid and pointless.

[Aleshire]

I didnt say alternate picking should be used for every situation, did I?

If you choose to use alternate picking for a situation then you should be consistent in the technique.

[Jimbobntnr]

We can tell that you aren't consistent Cody. Watch your ***.

[funkyhoney]

thats not raking, and why would you even do that

don't ask me! i was just giving you a visual example

[Left Shoe]

Sup guys.

I think it would be similar to guitar playing with a pick. When alternating picking you want to go up down up down. It economizes picking, and while theres no incredibly noticeable results it does affect your playing. Say you're playing a scale run like this

--------------------4-5-7---
--------------4-5-7----------
-------3-5-7-----------------
-3-5-7-----------------------

If you were to "rake" persay from the first string to the next you could potentially lose your flow of movement. When shredding I've found that "raking" completely slows me down, and that keeping a continuous alternating picking style I can play much faster.

Now back to fingerpicking. I believe this involves the same concept. My guitar instructor, who is a classical musician as well as a guitar and bass player, emphasizes to keep this alternating pattern when alternate picking.

Sweeping is different in the case of guitar, you obviously wouldnt alternate pick a sweeping pattern, I'm sure its most likely the same on bass. But if you're playing in an alternate picking/fingerpicking style then you should stick to the pattern to economize movement and increase your speed.
thank you guitar player for your input on a bass technique, with your ultimate knowledge of our instrument your input is highly welcomed.

[Aleshire]

Well, considering my instructor plays all kinds of instruments, including bass, upright bass, fretless bass, and every other kind of bass you can think of, and has a hell of a lot more experience in music than me, I think I'm going to trust his technique.

And shoot me for trying to help?

[Jimbobntnr]

Well, considering my instructor plays all kinds of instruments, including bass, upright bass, fretless bass, and every other kind of bass you can think of,
you should have said something man, nobody would have given you a hard time. They don't hand out forum cred to just anybody here, but now they know who they're dealing with.

Maybe put that in your usertitle or location or something?

[Aleshire]

You should put sarcastic arrogant asshole in your usertitle.. seriously, how is the **** you're saying helping at all? If you want to go as far as to say that to rake or not is subjective then just say it and lets get over this instead of just throwing in little cocky remarks that simply detract from the issue at hand.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

Sup guys.

I think it would be similar to guitar playing with a pick. When alternating picking you want to go up down up down. It economizes picking, and while theres no incredibly noticeable results it does affect your playing. Say you're playing a scale run like this

--------------------4-5-7---
--------------4-5-7----------
-------3-5-7-----------------
-3-5-7-----------------------

If you were to "rake" persay from the first string to the next you could potentially lose your flow of movement. When shredding I've found that "raking" completely slows me down, and that keeping a continuous alternating picking style I can play much faster.

Now back to fingerpicking. I believe this involves the same concept. My guitar instructor, who is a classical musician as well as a guitar and bass player, emphasizes to keep this alternating pattern when alternate picking.

Sweeping is different in the case of guitar, you obviously wouldnt alternate pick a sweeping pattern, I'm sure its most likely the same on bass. But if you're playing in an alternate picking/fingerpicking style then you should stick to the pattern to economize movement and increase your speed.

Personally, I find this a bad example. I do not know of anyone that would rake going up, only down. Also, with alternate picking, up down up down is weird. I go down up down up, but that is me. When shredding, I do not know of anyone that rakes because you really do not have time to rake. I am sure that there is probably somebody that does it, but raking probably is not the best method of execution when it comes to shredding.

[funkyhoney]

raking is subjective


/thread

[BenJammin]

You should put sarcastic arrogant spatula in your usertitle.. seriously, how is the **** you're saying helping at all? If you want to go as far as to say that to rake or not is subjective then just say it and lets get over this instead of just throwing in little cocky remarks that simply detract from the issue at hand.

He's older than you.

Older = wiser.

Respect your elders.

[Jimbobntnr]

You should put sarcastic arrogant asshole in your usertitle.. seriously, how is the **** you're saying helping at all? If you want to go as far as to say that to rake or not is subjective then just say it and lets get over this instead of just throwing in little cocky remarks that simply detract from the issue at hand.

I'll accept all of that with the exception of arrogant. Welcome to the forums.

[Jimbobntnr]

He's older than you.

Older = wiser.

Respect your elders.

(s)he doesn't a profile birthday, why must you always assume that I'm older than everybody?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I wanna go fast!

[BenJammin]

(s)he doesn't a profile birthday, why must you always assume that I'm older than everybody?

Hey, I was sticking up for you.

Asshole.

[Thonk]

Raking is a gimmick.

>_>

[EADG]

The moral of the story is:


If you don't like raking, don't do it

If you do like it, do it

If you don't know what it is, staytf out of this thread and stop confusing the newbies

[Left Shoe]

Well, considering my instructor plays all kinds of instruments, including bass, upright bass, fretless bass, and every other kind of bass you can think of, and has a hell of a lot more experience in music than me, I think I'm going to trust his technique.

And shoot me for trying to help?

oh scheit you mean he plays all the kinds of basses i play?

[Sablate McNuff]

I remember seeing an excercise by Bunny Brunell about raking. It's essentially alternate picking vs. alternative picking, except with fingers.

It's not a bad technique at all, it's just usually done in a very sloppy manner.

"Raking is bad." Is that a Jeff Berlin quote?

/burn.

[Duncster]

Raking is proper technique. If anything you should make sure you rake EVERY time you drop down a string, as it makes more sense. And its proper technique. Go watch a Wooten, Manring, Or Sheehan video.

[eaton1012]

Kinda hard not to rake when your index finger is shorter than you middle finger.

[Left Shoe]

uh no, we are all doing fine

[EADG]

Raking is proper technique.


Let's get philosophical



Define "proper" technique

[Scott01]

Anyway, wasn't it James Jamerson or someone who only played with 1 finger?

Plus he was really good.

Yep, and he fkn pwned ***.

[White Riot!]

Dont step on a rake

[Duncster]

Let's get philosophical



Define "proper" technique

The way I tell you to do it.

I'm a philosopher.

[iceman3019]

jaco pastorius did it . . . YOU CAN TOO :thumb: !

[irishslappop]

i live my life a quarter mile at a time. i RAKE.

[HaVIC5]

The economy of motion of raking is debatable, and I dont see it's true advantage in that (although I do agree that for most circumstances it exists). The real advantage that raking has is in the fact that playing with "through" plucks, that is, the kind of plucks one does when raking as oposed to "closed" plucks where the fingers don't follow through and touch the string below it, makes muting very easy. The left hand won't be working nearly as much to mute all of the excess noise, and overall the sound will be a lot tighter.

[funkyhoney]

The economy of motion of raking is debatable, and I dont see it's true advantage in that (although I do agree that for most circumstances it exists). The real advantage that raking has is in the fact that playing with "through" plucks, that is, the kind of plucks one does when raking as oposed to "closed" plucks where the fingers don't follow through and touch the string below it, makes muting very easy. The left hand won't be working nearly as much to mute all of the excess noise, and overall the sound will be a lot tighter.

easier muting + economy of motion > being "correct"

[HaVIC5]

easier muting + economy of motion > being "correct"
There is no correct technique. Only the technique which gives you the best facility. Raking definitely does that.

[funkyhoney]

There is no correct technique. Only the technique which gives you the best facility. Raking definitely does that.

exactly, hence the inverted commas.

oh and you play upright don't you? there's a few questions in the lesson request thread that I'm sure you could answer better than me :p

[Tripp_chaos]

Rick Danko Played with only one finger for quite sometime and did well until the suggestion of taking lessons came up, but technique is technique and if everyone played the same technique it'd get boring after some time...

[EADG]

easier muting + economy of motion > being "correct"


Personal comfort > economy of motion > proper technique.