the next generation of greats.

[Zildjian_man]

I feel that in this modern era of music, drummers are not what they use to be.
I also feel strongly about this for all musisians(SP). It feels like rap and hip-hop is becoming for and more lisened to thas pure rock.

I feel that drummers like bonham,peart,and moon are long gone, and weaker, less enertaining ones are taking over that are in real bands, not like thomas lang. Is this to be the fate of the path they paved for us?

[Zildjian]

because its cheaper to use a drum machine then hire a studio drummer. And most of these rap producers just copy a beat they heard and add like one note. They arnt really musicians anymore. But there are a few decent bands comming around now but music has changed so we really cant compare them

[White Riot!]

the problem is there isnt anyone willing to take real risks and innovation with a nod to the past.


Mostly they are more concerned with genre labels than their own music they are creating

[Electric Requiem]

tool is an example of a big rock band with a great drummer.
Listen to record that Jeff Porcaro(until he died) or Purdie played on , the music may be generic pop but the drumming will be superb.
There are plenty of amazing drummers around doing amazing things, rock music isn't necessarily the best example of a genre with the most current great drummers.

[Nick]

No, you're just listening to the wrong music.

[fishbulb]

Will this make you stop playing drums? No. I play drums to have fun, not to be famous in a band or anything.

[moogoogaipan]

to Threadstarter: I hate to sound like an ***, but that's quite an ignorant statement.

You just have to listen to a lot of music. There are so many great drummers and musicians who are young that it's unbelievable... You can't just look at rock.
You have to look at jazz, that's where the really good musicians flock to.

I'm not trying to sound exclusive, but unless you are in the heat of the musical community, you aren't gonna be able to make a judgment call like that.
I see the general movement of music everyday through the opinions of musicians ranging from all ages to all styles... Opera all the way through bluegrass.

The music community is thriving as it always has, the music is just moving in a different direction and some people are just doomed to be stuck in the past. People hated jazz when it first started... likewise, rock was hated when it first came on the scene... it's part of the evolution...

So you can be one of those people who says "What happened to the old good music.."
or you can jump on the bandwagon and help shape the future of music by putting your personal tastes on it.

[Futuro]

I feel that in this modern era of music, drummers are not what they use to be.
I also feel strongly about this for all musisians(SP). It feels like rap and hip-hop is becoming for and more lisened to thas pure rock.

I feel that drummers like bonham,peart,and moon are long gone, and weaker, less enertaining ones are taking over that are in real bands, not like thomas lang. Is this to be the fate of the path they paved for us?Modern Rock is pretty much ****.

[Zildjian_man]

Modern Rock is pretty much ****.


That is what I mean. Im not talking about all music, but rock in specific moogoo, so dont have a cow.

It seems alot of the new drummers lack that edge and are are getting lazy.

[Undisco Kidd]

Uh yeah. Classic Rock wasn't that great.

And I'm sure people were saying the same thing in the 70's about how modern music is awful for drummers.

Rahrahrah.

[Futuro]

then stop listening to modern rock.....

Instead of listening to saliva/uneart/nickleback/asilaydying/any other band that screams the verse and sings chorus, listen to music that is actually good.


Uh yeah. Classic Rock wasn't that great.

And I'm sure people were saying the same thing in the 70's about how modern music is awful for drummers.

Rahrahrah.Exactly, most pop/rock music has always been shitty.

[poopoogaypoonn]

Middle Eastern music and Classical guitar are where its at noob

[poopoogaypoonn]

Cocaberry's MXDP Jazz Play-along has revolutionized music

[Futuro]

poopoogaypoon = Cocaberry?

[poopoogaypoonn]

LOL at the above everyone thinks am moogoo...know coca

[Futuro]

I knew you were not moogoo, He uses punctuation

[poopoogaypoonn]

Coco's too good of a drummer for me to immulate *were not worthy*

[Futuro]

TBH you have better taste in music than most of the drum forum....I don't think you are a drummer.

[poopoogaypoonn]

^lol
ah siht were supposed to trade music or some ****
did you see my list i put in the stronghold?
Ive been drumming 7 years

[Afrokid]

Jon Theodor... former member of the mars volta has to be the most original / consistently interesting drummer for a main stream type of band...or what ever u would consider the MV

[Futuro]

yeah they are a pretty good rock band, too bad the live show makes me want to stick knives in my ears.

[moogoogaipan]

That is what I mean. Im not talking about all music, but rock in specific moogoo, so dont have a cow.


Don't tell me not to have a cow... You didn't specifically single out rock.
You mentioned it, but your argument had no clear indication that you were talking about rock in particular.

[poopoogaypoonn]

sup moogoo

[moogoogaipan]

haha...
I saw you got banned...

You have lots of accounts?

[poopoogaypoonn]

the man is trying to bring me down
no, i dont have other accounts i actually like this name lol

[Zildjian_man]

Don't tell me not to have a cow... You didn't specifically single out rock.
You mentioned it, but your argument had no clear indication that you were talking about rock in particular.

Well now you know

[Hunted By a Freak]

ok theres nothing more that someone else hasnt said in less profound words than i would use

besides

stfu noob

[Zildjian_man]

ok theres nothing more that someone else hasnt said in less profound words than i would use

besides

stfu noob

You mean stfu me?

[Chippy569]

it's kind of a shame that...
Mostly they are more concerned with genre labels than their own music they are creating

yet...
You have to look at jazz, that's where the really good musicians flock to.



wait, i thought we weren't worrying about genres?









and since this is the crux of the topic, what makes a drummer "Great"?

[Hunted By a Freak]

um dont look to any one kind of genre like "jazz"

music changes

everyone thought that musicianship went down the shitter when rock came along

theyre like wtf gene krupa not john bonham

now look where we are

just have an open mind instead of being afraid of the future, fools

[Brokensticks]

It is true about drum machines and stuff, but there will always be great musicians around who love what they do.

[Hunted By a Freak]

what about guys like

keith carlock
steve hass
questlove
aaron spears
teddy campbell

these are just some of the modern guys playing contemporary music and doing an awesome job of it

just open your ****ing eyes/ears

[Chippy569]

?uestlove is amazing. so is carlock.


i'm not sure, though, that either of them will be regarded as "Greats" like bonham, ringo, rich, etc. simply because they're not as known or visible. I really question whether or not we'll ever see "Greats" like that again.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I'm pretty sure if you listen to the mainstream pop of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s it would also sound unambitious, samey, etc, and despite them having a real drummer he still played **** (

It is true what you are saying about there being more electronic music nowadays, but seeing as playing music, creating music, etc, is both enjoyable to do and also to listen to, a hell of a lot of people still do it. So what if you think there aren't any 'superstar' drummers. Maybe there will be when we look through the rose-tinted glasses of retrospect in about 30 years, and say those same things that you are doing now.

Personally, I think that today there is much more of all types of music. Perhaps the % of electronic/non-musician-made music has increased but then again so has the total amount of all music, or maybe it's the other way around, due to increased media coverage, increased affluence (to afford drums/instruments and lessons), along with probably lots of other things too.

As for people dissing modern rock because they only listen to emo-ish bands following the latest trend (Futuro, this means you), there is lots of good music out there. Also, I actually like lots of pop/rock. I'm probably gonna get kicked in the face for this, but I was listening to Orson the other day, and although their drummer mostly keeps it simple (which is what the songs mostly demand), I thought he had some pretty nice chops, better than most stuff you hear from pop/rock bands. But then again, I suppose jazz is intrinsically better so we should all repeat a swing rhythm on the ride ad nauseam :p .


Also, personally I've never really listened much to the Who, but mr Moon has never really done anything that has impressed me much.

[Bub]

Shall we just say that it's not mainstream drummers who have changed, just the mainstream itself. Can you see Led Zeppelin being as famous as they were if they started out now?

There are still some fantastic drummers around, I'd give my right arm to have their skill. Though it would then be pretty redundant.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Shall we just say that it's not mainstream drummers who have changed, just the mainstream itself. Can you see Led Zeppelin being as famous as they were if they started out now?

There are still some fantastic drummers around, I'd give my right arm to have their skill. Though it would then be pretty redundant.

haha, that's true. I reckon Led Zepellin probs would be popular if they were around now, though probs not as much as they wouldn't be so different to that which had come before. That said, they had a major influence for much of today's music, so we could maybe be listening to completely different stuff. Led zep weren't mainstream in the same way that spice girls etc are/were, I mean they didn't do singles etc, they were just like a huge rock band maybe tool or red hot chili peppers or some other very popular band

[skidrumbum]

i hate the mainstreem radio. unfortunatly i did have a cd player all the way to my school yesterday(45min ride) and the radio on the bus was on to a mainstreem station and i heard fergi 4 times in that 45 mins. no joke.

[skidrumbum]

ah damn. ment to say i didnt have my cd player

[Ethan.]

That guy from Black Stone Cherry is a good drummer.

[Zildjian]

I think some of you missed a part of hhis statement. He called out Rap music being more popular. And most of them use drum machines and steal beats they herd from back in the days. And if you dont think thats true then do some research. Fergie for example

And I think ?uestlove is the only drummer in a rapish group(?) and its pretty cool so maybe more of of bands like this come out

Fergie has some pretty cool songs....

[440561]

You have to look at jazz, that's where the really good musicians flock to.


Why is this?

[We_Love_Lime]

Because it's true.

Haha man.
All the music I listen to doesn't use real drummers pretty much.

Amon Tobin?
That's AWESOME music, like, you've never heard. But he uses drum programming, beacuse he can, and honostly, if he used a real drummer, it wouldn't be the same.

Lol and Zildjian.
Many hip hop producers use samples from other people, but some are very innovative.
RJD2
Scott Storch
Madlib.

And at the same time TS.
You need to look around more for music.
I can't belive you'd say such a thing.

[Sharkey Boy]

I think you'd be suprised at how much real drummers do feature in alot of todays modern pop music, if not in the studio at least live, and alot of rap and hip hop is looking at more live drumming nowadays

Umm thats all I can really add...il edit this into a comprehsnive post later

[Undisco Kidd]

Oh, and todays 'rock' has someo good drummers. Modest Mouse's Jeremiah Green and Joe Plumber = incredibly creative guys.

[poopoogaypoonn]

Matt Chamberlain disproves this whole discussion...havent you guys learned not to ask serious questions in D&P?

[Hunted By a Freak]

douche and poops

[FockerTheLopper]

No, you're just listening to the wrong music.

Exactly!

[Talos]

Run DMC are an awesome band. I know theyre not modern but some of the drum beats are pretty sweet.

I also think Public Enemy are pretty good and again their drum beats are decent but PE arent mainstream, I dunno if they were.

Its kinda irrelevant but yeah

[We_Love_Lime]

Lol word plasma.
Just because music doesn't have live drums.
Doesn't mean the drumming isn't good.

[Josiah]

hahaha so funny..

well I would post somethign pertaining to the development of drummers, but the disscussion just doesn't seem to be mature enough for that..

I'll just say -

Drums are a very new instrument, one of the newest. Other newer instruments went through very simular developmental stages (IE compare electricguitars decades since invention to modern drums).

Drumming is starting to level out, there's still the wild crazy holy flippin cow look what you can do that has nothing to do with music stuff going on.. but that phase is dropping down as well.

Also you have the various social, technological and other comebined factors. Internet, distrubution, globalizing of the economy AND music.


There will be a constent flow of amazing musicians in all kinds of music, there will most likely not be anyone who is 'beyond' what the greats that have already come, and those guys have innovation on their side as well.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I think some of you missed a part of hhis statement. He called out Rap music being more popular. And most of them use drum machines and steal beats they herd from back in the days. And if you dont think thats true then do some research. Fergie for example

And I think ?uestlove is the only drummer in a rapish group(?) and its pretty cool so maybe more of of bands like this come out

Fergie has some pretty cool songs....

Lol....rapish, as in rape-like? Also, herd is like a load of cows, buffalo, etc..

It's called sampling rather than stealing, I'm 99% sure they get permission before releasing it. It's also sampling from other non-actual-intrument artists. Mostly from either a decent or less popular or underground song to a mainstream hit. e.g. the number of samples from 'old school' hiphop or hiphop from the '90s in songs from today. e.g. that crap Ice Cube song with the sampled backing from what was originally a great song by Grandmaster Flash. Just as Puff Daddy sampled Led Zeppelin.

Personally, I definitely think that if band members play actual instruments then they are more involved in the creative process though. Not to mention more original. Not to mention a lot more fun. A live show where you've just got a DJ sitting there waving his arms saying "come on , y'all" while his record is played through the PA with a few 'scratching' tricks is neither fun to watch nor original. Like when you see Keane etc live you might as well go listen to the cd and save £20 rather than going to see a decent live band.

I think it's sad when musicians get replaced by computers, which is, in the end, I think, the reason why so many people here dislike rap, etc, as well as the mainstream **** that you hear (50 cent......) whereas if it were created by actual musicians then I think people would like it a lot more. Not to mention it would be better (?uestlove someone mentioned earlier). After all, James Brown style funk is VERY similar to a lot of hiphop, but consider you many people in this forum (i.e. musicians) like funk or see it as original compared to sampled/electronically-created beats where MC Radicalblazinz sits there thinking he's ****ing cool. What I'm trying to say (probs very badly too) is that I think it's partly an image thing, and partly the fact that using computers for bits that could easily be played, and better, by musicians is neither popular nor a good way to get the best music. There is of course a different case if it's something that requires electronic parts, e.g. minimalism and other assorted electronic styles. Though that said, Steve Reich did use live instruments a lot, even when doing his overly pretentious works.

[We_Love_Lime]

Dude.
People are ignorant if they think that people who are DJ's are not revolutonary in what they do.

Kid Koala.
Prime example.
Just ebcasue 50 cent uses programmed drums and 50 cent is crap, doesn't mean all progrmmed drums are crap.

Jesus.

[NewMetman]

Maybe you need to stop looking in mainstream rock/pop. One of the reasons mainstream is so popular is because of its simplicity. Most people arent that musically talented, and can't comprehend extensive time signature changes and giant tom fills. And as a result, the mainstream of music is catchy and simple, targeting the masses. If you want to here more original or talented groups, look more at indie/alternative bands. And i dunno, im pretty sure that Gavin Harrison, Mike Portnoy, Chad Smith and Danny Carey could be considered modern greats. Also, the reason you think of classic rock having great drummers, is because classic rock stations only play the good music of the day. there were definitely bad bands back in the day, you just dont hear them now, because they werent famous and couldnt face the test of time. the resulting bands that you hear now are the best of the best of that day and age, and so the past is more glorified than it really was.

[Hunted By a Freak]

yeah if you take chad smith and mike portnoy off that list danney carey and gavin are pretty dang good

[Josiah]

hrmf ya lets just forget about all the session greats who cross all or very large spectrums of music and just slay... nobody ever talks about hal blaine. come on.

[Electric Requiem]

and can't comprehend extensive time signature changes and giant tom fills.

Most people don't like giant tom fills. Comprehension shouldn't be an issue. Go out on the street and let people listen to something ****ed up by Virgil, and something like The Sound of Muzak by PT. One they will hate because to 99.9999% of the population, the crazy **** that some drummers do sounds like total ****. A drummer like Gavin can pull complicated stuff and make it sound simple. I'm not saying that Virigl's not a great drummer, I'm saying that alot of his stuff seems very self-indulgent and unmusical.

I agree with Cameron, and I believe I did mention session drummers in my first post Josiah.

[Josiah]

oh i didn't read the thread haha sorry but still nobody talks about hal

[NewMetman]

Most people don't like giant tom fills. Comprehension shouldn't be an issue. Go out on the street and let people listen to something ****ed up by Virgil, and something like The Sound of Muzak by PT. One they will hate because to 99.9999% of the population, the crazy **** that some drummers do sounds like total ****. A drummer like Gavin can pull complicated stuff and make it sound simple. I'm not saying that Virigl's not a great drummer, I'm saying that alot of his stuff seems very self-indulgent and unmusical.


sorry, my example was bad. I didnt mean just giant fills, but anything complicated in general. My point was like you said, lots of complicated playing sounds like garbage to most of the population.

[Motleyguy]

Lol....rapish, as in rape-like? Also, herd is like a load of cows, buffalo, etc..

It's called sampling rather than stealing, I'm 99% sure they get permission before releasing it. It's also sampling from other non-actual-intrument artists. Mostly from either a decent or less popular or underground song to a mainstream hit. e.g. the number of samples from 'old school' hiphop or hiphop from the '90s in songs from today. e.g. that crap Ice Cube song with the sampled backing from what was originally a great song by Grandmaster Flash. Just as Puff Daddy sampled Led Zeppelin.

Personally, I definitely think that if band members play actual instruments then they are more involved in the creative process though. Not to mention more original. Not to mention a lot more fun. A live show where you've just got a DJ sitting there waving his arms saying "come on , y'all" while his record is played through the PA with a few 'scratching' tricks is neither fun to watch nor original. Like when you see Keane etc live you might as well go listen to the cd and save £20 rather than going to see a decent live band.

I think it's sad when musicians get replaced by computers, which is, in the end, I think, the reason why so many people here dislike rap, etc, as well as the mainstream **** that you hear (50 cent......) whereas if it were created by actual musicians then I think people would like it a lot more. Not to mention it would be better (?uestlove someone mentioned earlier). After all, James Brown style funk is VERY similar to a lot of hiphop, but consider you many people in this forum (i.e. musicians) like funk or see it as original compared to sampled/electronically-created beats where MC Radicalblazinz sits there thinking he's ****ing cool. What I'm trying to say (probs very badly too) is that I think it's partly an image thing, and partly the fact that using computers for bits that could easily be played, and better, by musicians is neither popular nor a good way to get the best music. There is of course a different case if it's something that requires electronic parts, e.g. minimalism and other assorted electronic styles. Though that said, Steve Reich did use live instruments a lot, even when doing his overly pretentious works.

you probably just shouldn't talk anymore. I'm not sure that you realize that most albums these days feature alot of sampling. Musicians aren't being replaced by computers, they are simply taking advantage of new technology. And I'm also gonna agree with Lime's post on this one, what some of the DJ's out there are doing these days is revolutionary in their style. Personally I think the "next big thing" in music is going to be electronic music, which is cool, because there's alot of cool electronic stuff out there.

[Josiah]

Pfff

There's not going to be any "next big thing" because the record companies aren't controlling the music anymore.

The Last Big Thing in Music. Is Freedom.

[Hunted By a Freak]

well put

[Jezen]

Well I dunno about the TS but i'm quite sure there's loads of fresh talent around. Young kids that absolutely rip it up.

[Retarded Chipple]

I don't think there's anything wrong with sampling.

Look at the "Amen Break". One of, if not the most sampled piece in electronic music...

...A drummer plays a a four bar drum break then years later, DJ's use it and cut it up in many different ways, thus shaping the face of modern hip hop, jungle and DnB. Now, rather than complaining about this sampling and what its doing, why not look into and use it to your advantage? View it as something new you can learn from! Drummers influenced electronic music so why not let electronic music influence drummers back?

Music, like a lot of things progresses and evolves. Now rather than moaning, you might as well accept that its probably here to stay and take something from it!

Look at Jojo Mayer. One of the many drummers who's taken advantage of the sampling revolution!

[Laney]

After all, James Brown style funk is VERY similar to a lot of hiphop

James Brown style funk IS hiphop. Where'd you think all the breaks came from!

[Hunted By a Freak]

the funky drummer beat by stubbefield is the most sampled drumbeat ever douchebag

[Retarded Chipple]

the funky drummer beat by stubbefield is the most sampled drumbeat ever douchebag

Me!?

I didn't say it was "the most sampled". I was just saying it is most likely ONE of the many famous samples along with the Funky Drummer...

It was just an example...

Besides, how do you know which is THE most sampled beat? Have you heard/counted every recording featuring each sample?

While on the subject, check out this little vid :)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

[Hunted By a Freak]

i wasnt talking to you man

i was talking to whoever said that james brown is like hip hop

i was noting their ignorance

and yes it is widely regarded and accepted by most to be the most sampled beat in history

[Retarded Chipple]

i wasnt talking to you man

i was talking to whoever said that james brown is like hip hop

i was noting their ignorance

and yes it is widely regarded and accepted by most to be the most sampled beat in history

oh, ok then! hehe


:chug:

[Hunted By a Freak]

word

:chug:

[crazyjake19]

I feel that modern rock is becoming monotonous. Not to say that it isn't any good, I just feel that it definitely lacks variety. It's too overproduced and lacks that almost magicial "vibe" that older bands had. I also feel that bands like Black Rebel Motorcycle Club and Wolfmother are bringing back that "vibe" and hopefully newer bands will follow in that style.

Also, a lot of newer bands seem to lack diversity in their music, mainly in the modern rock genre. When you listen to a Led Zeppelin album, one song may be straight-forward rock n roll, whereas the next ("Kashmir") may be foreign sounding, and the next ("Trampled Underfoot") may seem like older funk rock.

All that being said, I feel that many newer bands try to put themselves into a genre, instead of writing songs, and letting others place them into a genre. Led Zeppeling and Jimi Hendrix didn't write to fit into a specific genre, and look how diverse their music is. Or Alice in Chains, or Billy Joel, or Pink Floyd, and they all have such diverse music, which seems to be lacking today.