A question

[Lem0n]

For college, Im going to be a doing a presentation using powerpoint about microphone placement on the drum kit and what microphones are most suitable.


What do you think would be the best way to approach it as i know there are various methods of micing a kit and god knows how many different models of mics.

[static]

I think if you aren't knowledgable of the subject then you shouldn't be doing it.

[Little Android Man]

^right?

from my knowladge, the most effective (seeing that you have the equipment) one each for the toms, one for snare, 1 bass and two overheads.

but im noob so dont listen to me.

[Lem0n]

I know what im doing and i know about mic placement.


But i mean, just cause i use an sm-57 on a snare drum lets say, i can't say in a presentaition that this is the only mic that can be used to record a snare drum.

because it isn't, if any of that made sense.

[rockindrummer]

Well to my extent of mics I can give you a nice list of the mics i've seen used on professionally recorded kits.
Snare: Sm 57 top and bottom
Toms: Sennheiser 421s
Bass: Akg D112 (deep inside kick), Shure Beta 52(just inside reso), and a Yamaha sub kit (a couple inches from the reso)
Overheads: Akg C 451 B
Hats: Shure KSM series, I don't remember exact model, Probably the KSM32
Then there were two room mics which I can not remember the make of, probably again the Shure KSM44

Hope this helps a litte. I'm sure you could use many things on the snare, IE the 421s, SM 58, but the SM 57 is most widely used.

[fishbulb]

3 bass drum mics and 2 snare mics? You're crazy if you use that many on your whole kit.

[ant_182]

Look, bluff yourway through it. Thats what I did. I done something on drums. And then she gameme an A. Just be positive, do a well presentated presentation :) You'll do fine :)


-Ant-

[Chippy569]

if you want to talk about mic positioning, you need to talk about the polar graphs of mics (the "pickup fields") that show where the mic gets its source from. Shure, i believe, shows both frequency response polar fields on their website for every mic.
Highlight this with identifying source. For example, because drums are so close together most drum mics are hypercardioid in order to block the sounds of other drums. Room mics and large-diapragm condenser mics are usually omnidirectional in order to pick up the sound of the whole room.

Anyway, you should probably start with frequency response. High pitched sounds project and define. Low pitched sounds add warmth and character. Kick drums have low freqs and hi freqs. Toms are all mid freqs. Snares are a wide range of freqs. Cymbals get as high as 30kHz, and even higher in bells. (the human ear stops at around 16kHz). Then work that into picking the correct mic for the application. For example, using a pencil condenser on your kick is bad because you wont get the low freq's.

Then you can go into SPL's and how drums are REALLY FREAKING LOUD so more often than not dynamic mics need to be used (ie snare, kick, tom mics). A bass drum can get upwards of 120SPL at a resonant head porthole... most mics just can't handle that.

Lastly, you can get into techniques. Highlight the benefits and problems with the three main micing techniques: 1mic, 4mic, and closemic. (ie one mic is cheap and safe, but takes a long time to find that "sweet spot" in the room. 4mic gets the snare kick and everything else in the OH, but your condensers have to be able to handle both tom freq's and cymbal freq's, which usually means large-diaphragm condensers, which are $$. Closemicing is optimal soundwise but you have to both have the mics and have the space in your mixer.)

I think that's about what i'd do.

[fishbulb]

And tell me why you don't have a higher rep than me?

Seriously, that post was very enlightening, inspirational even.

[Chippy569]

because Jimbo didn't like me. :)

[rockindrummer]

3 bass drum mics and 2 snare mics? You're crazy if you use that many on your whole kit.
Well like I said that was in the studio. Trust me, he gets a nice fat clear drum sound. Though he isn't worrying about the cost of all the mics and easily has the room on the board.

[We_Love_Lime]

Chippy knows his ****.
But I'm confused.

If cymbals can reach 30 khz, and than we can only hear 15?
How does that happen?

[Lem0n]

yeh that helped chippy, thanks :thumb: .



I don't think im going to talk about particular models of microphones but instead concentrate more on what qualitys the mic has that makes it suitable for recording that drum e.g polar patterns (cardiod, hypercardiod etc) and sound pressure levels etc.

[maniac0796]

They don't care what you know, all they care about is how your present the presentation.

[Talos]

Chippy knows his ****.
But I'm confused.

If cymbals can reach 30 khz, and than we can only hear 15?
How does that happen?

Humans can hear up to 20KHz

[Lem0n]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yeh but the course im on is a national diploma in music technology



EDIT: to maniac

[maniac0796]

I'm gonna be doing the national award next year...

Whats it like?

[Lem0n]

it's really good.

just finished doing a short 14 week course in december which gave me the basic skills i needed to progress on to the diploma.

only been on it since the begging of jan lol.

but yeh its great, definitly worth doing.

[maniac0796]

niceeeeee

[santi3hg]

I think if you aren't knowledgable of the subject then you shouldn't be doing it.

But then again thats the whole point to researching, gathering, and presenting the information as a final product.

[Chippy569]

yeh that helped chippy, thanks :thumb: .



I don't think im going to talk about particular models of microphones but instead concentrate more on what qualitys the mic has that makes it suitable for recording that drum e.g polar patterns (cardiod, hypercardiod etc) and sound pressure levels etc.

good boy :)


Shure has a big writeup on drum mic placements, with diagrams. probably a good place to "borrow" some pictures from, if you don't have time.

here 'ya go:
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/TechLibrary/EducationalArticles/ssLINK/us_pro_mic_techniques_drums_ea



some other interesting stuff here (not really, but applicable nonetheless):
http://homerecording.com/session.html

[Chippy569]

Humans can hear up to 20KHz

whatever freq it is, different from person to person.


Here's how your ear works:
inside your ear, behind the drum, is a spiral-shaped organ that has some name i don't know offhand (but it looks like a Nautilus shell). On the inside of this spiral lies little "hairs" of different, very exact lengths.

As you know, sound is waves. If you've taken any physics, you know that waves have a wavelength and a frequency. (and they're inverses or something like that).

So. These hairs on the inside of your ears, get shorter as the spiral gets smaller. Each hair corresponds to a different wavelength.

The hairs vibrate due to sympathetic vibration (when one wavelength contacts a free-ish object of the same or harmonic wavelength, the wave causes that object to vibrate).

So, when the hairs vibrate, your brain hears sound.

As you know, the louder the sound, the move those hairs vibrate. Eventually, there comes a point where the hairs vibrate so violently from loud noise that it simply snaps. and unfortunately, it doesn't grow back.

The smaller hairs are easier to "snap" because they're less flexible (like the difference between snapping a popsicle stick at the ends, and a 2x4 at the ends... bad analogy, but hush hush and play along.)


so, as you get older, the chances of those upper-range hairs snapping is more likely. thus, old people can't hear.




Dogs have more sensitive ears, and can go upto 30 or 35kHz. Thus, your dog hears stuff you don't.



and it's the same with mics - mics can handle frequencies up in that 30kHz range. and if you have a lot of noise in that high range, which you don't even hear, you can damage a mic unknowingly.

there's more than you needed to know about hearing :)

[Sabian4015]

The drummer from Radiohead uses an overhead mic, a mic placed somewhere inside the room ( not close to the drumset ), and I mic outside of the room itself. Interesting mic set-up I'd say.

[Chippy569]

The drummer from Radiohead uses an overhead mic, a mic placed somewhere inside the room ( not close to the drumset ), and I mic outside of the room itself. Interesting mic set-up I'd say.
that whole band does some really weird ****. one of the vocal trax was recorded in a bathroom...

[BigMe]

Yeah, and on Fitter, Happier he did the vocals on his mac program, and then played piano drunk....

[DrummingBen]

Chippy is the mic guru!

[Chippy569]

something like that! it's why i'm currently working at a music studio.

[We_Love_Lime]

Is it like an internship?
Becuase props.

[Chippy569]

yeah, it's an internship.