Question

[tehbuttesecks]

Dunno if this has been asked before.

So the theory of gravity has no tangible evidence to considered true, in terms of science. But yet it is almost universally accepted.

So when we have tangible evidence to justify the theory of evolution, it's almost universally disputed.

I don't see any logic in this, so, for those of you who believe in gravity, and not evolution, please take time to enlighten me.

[Knifeboy]

overdone topic itt

[Amit]

it's the law of gravity*

http://www.jimloy.com/physics/gravity.htm

evidence for evolution is disputed because fundies are three parts greedy and four parts dumb

[Benzum]

I belive in gravity because my organs don't fly out from my body.
Some things you just don't question, it's not like you can make a difference.

[shaqadelic]

micro evolution can be proven with certainty, macro on the other hand has its loop holes.

[dei]

Gravity doesn't exist. Our planet (which is flat and not round like they teach you in school) is traveling upward at a steady speed, and that keeps everything from floating away from it.

[Amit]

there's plenty of evidence that supports macroevolution

however because of the time scale we're dealing with (50,000 years for humans and most primates), actually proving macroevolution is currently impossible

[dei]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.

[shaqadelic]

exactly my point.. to Atman

[Rabbi]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.


I didn't think Dei would be the one taking this stance.

I don't know what to believe, I'm kind of vulnerable and confused about that lately. I'm born and raised Jewish and as soon as I'm certain there's no God I'm dragged to temple for the holidays and gain a little faith. So I rather not argue about this and just learn from whatever everyone else thinks.

And although it's technically not a religion, I am really interested in Buddhism.

[dei]

You don't know dei! :angry:

[Linkinbassist]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.

It's entirely probable, actually...

[Amit]

why isn't buddhism a religion

[Africa]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.

I don't respect your opinion.

[Rabbi]

Well it really is a religion, but I am more interested in the concepts of Nirvana and Dharma and Karma. It's all so relevant to me.

[RockAndRoll]

So the theory of gravity has no tangible evidence to considered true, in terms of science.

When did this happen?

[Give me Beer]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.

You're joking right? We evolved from the same ancestors as monkeys, not from a chimpansee.

[Rabbi]

Read up, son!

[RockAndRoll]

Who are you talking to?

[rancid22]

Dunno if this has been asked before.

So the theory of gravity has no tangible evidence to considered true, in terms of science. But yet it is almost universally accepted.

So when we have tangible evidence to justify the theory of evolution, it's almost universally disputed.

I don't see any logic in this, so, for those of you who believe in gravity, and not evolution, please take time to enlighten me.

well, quite frankly, no religion gives three craps why humans are sucked towards the earth, thus accepting any logical theory provided. stating that humans were once some type of monkey is something that goes against the very principles of many religions (book of Genesis). and considering the over half of the people on this planet follow some sort of religion, mass conundrum occurs.

[sweboy]

http://www.geocities.com/intelligentfalling/intelligent-falling.html

Sign the petition, this is an importnant issue.

[GreyHam]

to be fair, the infallible word of God was written by human beings long before any sense of worldy knowledge was available.

genesis is often said to have whats called 'religious truth' which is to do with the morals behind the stories as opposed to the events that theyre supposed to tell. eg god creating the world in 7 days - not necceserily but thiking about it, the order he makes the world is the order that the world (probably) evolved, just over a much longer period of time. and with dinosaurs, obviously

[Rabbi]

Every religion's porpose ever in history ever has been to provide an awnser to why things happen in the world and to also provide a morale code to provide by. So couldn't it be that just like Grey Ham said that the Hebrew people were the same as every other ancient civilization? Maybe the Hebrews came up with these stories that we call our Old Testimate to explain things that happened in the world around them, and then it was expanded on in the New Testimate.

One might argue this point because of the detail in the Bible, you wouldn't think that this was the case. But I've read some passages from other holy texts from ancient civilizations including China and India and they are all extremly detailed.

[GreyHam]

Every religion's porpose ever in history ever has been to provide an awnser to why things happen in the world and to also provide a morale code to provide by. So couldn't it be that just like Grey Ham said that the Hebrew people were the same as every other ancient civilization? Maybe the Hebrews came up with these stories that we call our Old Testimate to explain things that happened in the world around them, and then it was expanded on in the New Testimate.

One might argue this point because of the detail in the Bible, you wouldn't think that this was the case. But I've read some passages from other holy texts from ancient civilizations including China and India and they are all extremly detailed.

the old testament is truly an amazing book to read, the stories in it are phenomenal. most reasonable christians accept genesis to be an explanation for the the world was in character with every other religion thats been created: people are constantly searching for the truth why

the 'god created the world in 7 days argument' however, and creationism, is outdate and serious believers should be rounded up and given the ludivico technique

[dei]

You're joking right? We evolved from the same ancestors as monkeys, not from a chimpansee.

Whatever. It's all a bunch of poop.

[CrossTheBreeze]

http://www.geocities.com/intelligentfalling/intelligent-falling.html

Sign the petition, this is an importnant issue.
This must be some kind of joke.

[GreyHam]

yea it is, its satire directed at supporters of intelligent design. it exagerates the ridiculous nature of their argument by using a parallel and equally absurd argument

just making sure you get it

[rancid22]

genesis is often said to have whats called 'religious truth' which is to do with the morals behind the stories as opposed to the events that theyre supposed to tell. eg god creating the world in 7 days - not necceserily but thiking about it, the order he makes the world is the order that the world (probably) evolved, just over a much longer period of time. and with dinosaurs, obviously

yes, it is quite possible the story of creation details evolution's order, but what is the deal with everything after that? like eve's decision to deny God and the serpent having to crawl on his belly as a punishment.

[dei]

Haha.

[GreyHam]

yes, it is quite possible the story of creation details evolution's order, but what is the deal with everything after that? like eve's decision to deny God and the serpent having to crawl on his belly as a punishment.

adam is punished with manual labour: working the land. this is to explain why the men did all the work
eve is punished with the agony of childbirth as she is the creator of original sin. this is meant to explain why childbirth is so excruciatingly painful ('why would a loving benevolent god make this head so big and my minge so small???') as its a punishment for eves treachery


it goes on and on and on and on up until abraham, where we start hitting something with some substance

[RockAndRoll]

yes, it is quite possible the story of creation details evolution's order
Not really, no.

[BassRevelation]

Dunno if this has been asked before.

dont worry. It has.

So the theory of gravity has no tangible evidence to considered true, in terms of science. But yet it is almost universally accepted.
seriously?


So when we have tangible evidence to justify the theory of evolution, it's almost universally disputed.
its disputed because *suprise* there are two different sides that have been around for the same time(not the actual theory of evolution, but the idea).

Secular Humanism vs. Religious beliefs. You're bound to have a dispute.

[GreyHam]

Not really, no.

n the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2


And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3


And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4


And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5



And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6


And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7


And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8


And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9


And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10


And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11


And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12


And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13


And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14


And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15


And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16


And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18

And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22

And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23

And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Matt 19:4 Mark 10:6
28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.




yes its long but it has interesting points. the world is without form: no earth. the earth is formed and it is shapeless. what comes to a planet? an atmosphere. rocky vovanic planet. eventually comes water. we astablish from evolution that the first life forms were single cell aquatic organisms? animals in the sea first. eventually they move onto the land. then comes humans

yea, i know its probably all coincidence, but its largely in the right order. enough so that 'not really, no' doesnt quite cut it as a refutation

and do remember when this was written...

[rancid22]

adam is punished with manual labour: working the land. this is to explain why the men did all the work
eve is punished with the agony of childbirth as she is the creator of original sin. this is meant to explain why childbirth is so excruciatingly painful ('why would a loving benevolent god make this head so big and my minge so small???') as its a punishment for eves treachery


it goes on and on and on and on up until abraham, where we start hitting something with some substance

makes a lot of sense when it is looked at as a symbol, but i still don't see the purpose of taking away the snake's feet and making him crawl on his belly. this has always sounded like greek mythology to me.

Not really, no.now that i reread the first part of genesis i see why you say so. i highly doubt that water and land formed while there was no atmosphere and much less before there was a sun.

[RockAndRoll]

yes its long but it has interesting points. the world is without form: no earth. the earth is formed and it is shapeless. what comes to a planet? an atmosphere. rocky vovanic planet. eventually comes water. we astablish from evolution that the first life forms were single cell aquatic organisms? animals in the sea first. eventually they move onto the land. then comes humans

yea, i know its probably all coincidence, but its largely in the right order. enough so that 'not really, no' doesnt quite cut it as a refutation

and do remember when this was written...

Light comes without stars. Plants evolve before the sun. Flying animals come before land animals. It's not in order.

[GreyHam]

it was written over 2000 years ago. it was hardly likely to be perfect was it.
most importantly is that man comes after the creation of animals, not the other way around, as is suggested in genesis chapter 2

[RockAndRoll]

it was written over 2000 years ago. it was hardly likely to be perfect was it.

So?
most importantly is that man comes after the creation of animals, not the other way around, as is suggested in genesis chapter 2

How is that most important?

[GreyHam]

man is the highest form of evolution


context: people thought very silly things back then

if you dont see it fair enough im not gonna get my heart set on making this an issue

[RockAndRoll]

man is the highest form of evolution
Once again, not really, no. It's not as if everything else stopped evolving.

context: people thought very silly things back then

if you dont see it fair enough im not gonna get my heart set on making this an issue

Yes, people did think very silly things back then. I'm not disputing that, I'm just wondering what the relevance of it is.

[dei]

Who says we need the sun to survive? Last time I checked the other planets were revolving around or above us. They need us a lot more than we need them.

[GreyHam]

Who says we need the sun to survive? Last time I checked the other planets were revolving around or above us. They need us a lot more than we need them.

i detect sarcasm

[dei]

Yeah. None of the posts in this thread were serious.

I'm dumb but I'm not ca-ray-zay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay.

[moogoogaipan]

Evolution is a bunch of bullpoop. We've been human since the day God created Earth. There's no way in hell we came from monkeys, because if that were true monkeys wouldn't be around anymore.

actually, moron, The Theory of Evolution factors in environment. Monkeys can easily still be around because they weren't in the same conditions at the point in time that we were.

Quit spouting off your Bible lessons as though they are truth.

[GreyHam]

hes bein mildly irritating and mostly sarcastic. just ignore

[moogoogaipan]

haha... I just read his other posts.

[BassRevelation]

now you just look stupid and intolerant

[moogoogaipan]

^^I don't get it.

[dei]

hes bein mildly irritating and mostly sarcastic. just ignore

I didn't think this was a serious topic.

[Rabbi]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hahaha.

[PerpetualBurn]

man is the highest form of evolution


context: people thought very silly things back then

if you dont see it fair enough im not gonna get my heart set on making this an issue

How come you get to ignore the bits that don't support your crazy argument?

[gaslight]

This whole thread is a joke right?

[the_green_bastard]

Dunno if this has been asked before.

So the theory of gravity has no tangible evidence to considered true, in terms of science. But yet it is almost universally accepted.

So when we have tangible evidence to justify the theory of evolution, it's almost universally disputed.

I don't see any logic in this, so, for those of you who believe in gravity, and not evolution, please take time to enlighten me.

In the world of physics and mathematics, there exist two different types of proof - direct and indirect. We've made this judgement based on the knowledge of the round earth and based on what we know of physics already, and it seems to be consistent with our scientific adventures thus far, such as coordinating the flights to the moon, the orbit around the planet, etc. etc. Good enough for me, until somebody produces an airtight proof or photographic evidence that it is, in fact, hordes of invisible green fairies pulling things where they need to go in order to keep us foolish mortals fooled. Boring as it may make our lives out to be, the most mundane possibility is often the answer.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

In the world of physics and mathematics, there exist two different types of proof - direct and indirect. We've made this judgement based on the knowledge of the round earth and based on what we know of physics already, and it seems to be consistent with our scientific adventures thus far, such as coordinating the flights to the moon, the orbit around the planet, etc. etc. Good enough for me, until somebody produces an airtight proof or photographic evidence that it is, in fact, hordes of invisible green fairies pulling things where they need to go in order to keep us foolish mortals fooled. Boring as it may make our lives out to be, the most mundane possibility is often the answer.

"Scientific adventures" is my new favourite phrase

now there is a band i would go and see

"Tommy Relativity and the scientific adventures"

[the_green_bastard]

"Scientific adventures" is my new favourite phrase

now there is a band i would go and see

"Tommy Relativity and the scientific adventures"

Man... I gotta start that band. :chug:

[spitfirejunky]

Hey TS, what happens when you walk off a ledge?

[ashman]

In the world of physics and mathematics, there exist two different types of proof - direct and indirect. We've made this judgement based on the knowledge of the round earth and based on what we know of physics already, and it seems to be consistent with our scientific adventures thus far, such as coordinating the flights to the moon, the orbit around the planet, etc. etc. Good enough for me, until somebody produces an airtight proof or photographic evidence that it is, in fact, hordes of invisible green fairies pulling things where they need to go in order to keep us foolish mortals fooled. Boring as it may make our lives out to be, the most mundane possibility is often the answer.

We only experience the effects of Gravity. If you ask someone what Gravity is and how it works, not many people could answer you.

[gaslight]

I would think many of them would say "gravity is a force that objects of great mass exert on objects of lesser mass, an example of this is the manner in which planets orbit around the sun, and moons orbit around some planets. The effect of gravity can also be seen in the manner in which planets affect the trajectory of comets and space probes that pass within their influence."

Or something to that effect.

[RockAndRoll]

I would think many of them would say "gravity is a force that objects of great mass exert on objects of lesser mass, an example of this is the manner in which planets orbit around the sun, and moons orbit around some planets. The effect of gravity can also be seen in the manner in which planets affect the trajectory of comets and space probes that pass within their influence."

Or something to that effect.

Actually the object of lesser mass exerts the same force on the object of greater mass as the greater mass does on the lesser mass. Equal and opposite, and all that other Newtonian stuff.

[gaslight]

Really? I haven't been in science class since I was 16 so I might be a little shakey on Newtonian physics. :lol:

I stand by the rest of it though.

[ashman]

I would think many of them would say "gravity is a force that objects of great mass exert on objects of lesser mass, an example of this is the manner in which planets orbit around the sun, and moons orbit around some planets. The effect of gravity can also be seen in the manner in which planets affect the trajectory of comets and space probes that pass within their influence."

Or something to that effect.

That's the effect of gravity, what is it?

(and yeah, Rockandroll's right)

[gaslight]

What do you mean "what is gravity?" Gravity is the force that creates the effect we observe.

[RockAndRoll]

Really? I haven't been in science class since I was 16 so I might be a little shakey on Newtonian physics. :lol:

I stand by the rest of it though.

Yup, no big deal. Most people only think of large objects exerting force on small objects, but the same force is exerted on both bodies. Believe it or not you exert the same gravitational force on the earth as it exerts on you.

[gaslight]

Except because of the Earth's mass being much greater than mine, the center of the gravitational effect is far closer to the Earth than it is to me, which is what pulls me towards the Earth instead of the other way around?

[RockAndRoll]

Except because of the Earth's mass being much greater than mine, the center of the gravitational effect is far closer to the Earth than it is to me, which is what pulls me towards the Earth instead of the other way around?

I wouldn't exactly put it that way, but you do have some good ideas in there.

The thing is acceleration is proportional to force applied and inversely proportional to the mass of the object. Because the earth is so massive the force exerted on it really doesn't have a huge effect in terms of acceleration. That's also why all bodies experience the same acceleration due to gravity. Although the gravitational force between lets say a plane and the earth is more than the gravitational force between me and the earth the fact that the plane is also more massive means that it will experience the exact same acceleration due to gravity as I will.

:thumb:

[the_uber_penguin]

Basically it works like this:

We have emperical evidence that gravity exists - drop a ball somewhere - but we don't actually know the process that this happens by (the alleged Higgs Boson predicted by supersymmetry has never been observed).

With evolution, there is no driving force behind it, it is simply a process we can observe happening, like evolution.


Unlike evolution, gravity happens on a very fast timescale. The ball you dropped from about shoulder height earlier took under a second to reach the floor, probably. Evolution happens much more slowly, and much more subtlely, and is, therefore, not obvious.

Plus many religions don't like evolution...

Consider this: you visit a species of alien who live in deep space, far from any masses and try and convince them gravity exists, and it pulls massive objects together. You can't demonstrate this, because you're in deep space. They would probably be extremely reluctant to believe you. I believe a similar thing happens with evolution, only with evolution, this race of species have a cult who orders them that free-floating is the natural way to be and it is impossible for gravity to exist for some reason...

[the_green_bastard]

We only experience the effects of Gravity. If you ask someone what Gravity is and how it works, not many people could answer you.

Gravity is a fact. The mechanics are the debate.

[ashman]

What do you mean "what is gravity?" Gravity is the force that creates the effect we observe.

Heh, that question was a bit ambigious.

At our current understanding, we can pretty much explain 3 of the 4 known forces in the universe (I'm not talking about unifying, that's a whole different ball game) and we've detected (or seen the effects) of the carrying particles. Gravity is the only force that we still don't really understand. There are loads of questions, like why is it so weak? What is causing the attraction? Why is there no repulsion? (well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect but let's not go there).

Uber_Penguin...

Higgs Boson = Electroweak Theory (Unification of Electromagneticis and the weak nuclear force)

Supersymettry = Super Particles (SParticles), which are Bosons and Fermions with 'opposite' spin.

Gravity is a fact. The mechanics are the debate.

Well, I apologise for trying to drag this thread of the typical 'Evolution Vs Science' tomfoolery. :mad:

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Except because of the Earth's mass being much greater than mine, the center of the gravitational effect is far closer to the Earth than it is to me, which is what pulls me towards the Earth instead of the other way around?

Negatory.


This is what relativity (not general relativity or special reliativity, just relativity) is about/

[gaslight]

Oh okay, I was reading something on an education page that talked about gravitational relationships between two objects with extremely disproportionate mass saying that the center of mass in the relationship would be closer to the more massive object (ie; the sun and the planets), but if the two objects were of similar great mass (ie; binary stars) they would orbit a common point between them because that the center of mass in the relationship would be equidistant from them.

[Malice]

I just want to say that TS has the most amazing username.

[the_green_bastard]

Well, I apologise for trying to drag this thread of the typical 'Evolution Vs Science' tomfoolery. :mad:

I meant it as more of a nod of approval or augmentation.

[ashman]

Negatory.


This is what relativity (not general relativity or special reliativity, just relativity) is about/

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here and I don't quite get it, could you elaborate for me?

Put it as simplisitic as you can, I'm having trouble focusing :P

I meant it as more of a nod of approval or augmentation.

Sorry, I misinterpreted your post.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here and I don't quite get it, could you elaborate for me?

Put it as simplisitic as you can, I'm having trouble focusing :P


Gravitational attraction is proportional to the product of 2 masses, and one isn't really pulling the other; they are attracted together.

[Petros]

With evolution, there is no driving force behind it, it is simply a process we can observe happening, like evolution.


What do you mean?

[ashman]

Gravitational attraction is proportional to the product of 2 masses, and one isn't really pulling the other; they are attracted together.

Attracted to each others Center of Mass?