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View Full Version : Okay i've figured out why most bands suck.


some jive turkey
01-13-2007, 01:27 AM
Okay, after playing with a slew of musicians, I've discovered the reason why most bands suck, and never get very far.

The weakest link, the achillies heel, almost always seems to be when it comes to arranging, the learning of arrangments, and importantly, remembering the arrangments.


It seems most musicians like to avoid arrangments, or want to make them up as they go along. This rarely works from my experience. Rarely is there some magical moment when everyone decides collectively to go to the change(although it may seem that way to a listener who didn't learn or study the arrangment).

Tell me if this sounds familiar: You show up at your buddies house week after week, you all know the songs, you played them great last week, but what about this week? You trainwreck on the first couple of attempts, but then finally get it on the third,... What happened?

The first step to the problem is writing them down. Everyone should write down the arrangments if they are seriously committed to learning tunes and performing them at gigs. Otherwise, you're just jamming, and screwing around. this is fine, but don't kid yourself.

Lazyness is always a big factor. It's the bane of human nature. But if someone is too lazy to write it down, why even bother picking up the instruments. It takes a hell of a lot more work to haul an amp or a drum set around than to write down an arrangment.

Dependency is an extension of this lazyiness. Relying on the other musicians to know where the changes are is a huge problem if half the band is doing it.
Another factor is cockyness. "I'll remember it", they always say. A lot of time people are partying a little at band practice and that doesn't ever help.

All this stuff contributes to very counterproductive band rehearsals. Jamming with friends in the garage is one thing. Performing music so that it's entertaining for others is another thing. it takes a little work, and actual group coordination if you want to sound good. I would venture to say that arranging is even more important for a band to sound good, than musicianship. Mediochre musicians who learn tunes like sponges and can perform them decently, will sound much tighter than 3 or 4 vitruosos who consistantly screw up the arrangments.

Even performances of "simple" song structures like any old 12 bar blues song, could drastically benefit from some arranging. Figure out: how exactly the song starts, who solos first, where any of the little signature stops and fills , or dynamic shifts are, and importantly, how the song ends.


Just some food for thought.
Discuss.

Anyone have some good tips about being a band's arranger?

Nick
01-13-2007, 10:14 AM
Having a black/whiteboard in your band's practice space helps immensely, I find.

Jon
01-13-2007, 02:37 PM
I always focus on arrangements, haha.

The second I've got a riff and some lyrics or whatever, my mind is going "this xtimes, that xtimes, quick drum roll, into the solo" etc etc.

Det_Nosnip
01-14-2007, 03:01 PM
Yeah, I agree...jazz musicians are the laziest people on the planet!

some jive turkey
01-14-2007, 08:52 PM
I wouldn't say it's exclusive to jazz musicians, but some of them,... yeah.

Det_Nosnip
01-14-2007, 09:13 PM
I was being sarcastic. Standarizing arrangements is a waste of time. Songs grow stale when there is too much repetition and that reflects on live performances. Bands that play from muscle memory are ****ing boring, I don't care how tight they are.

Most bands suck because they suck, period. Some of the greatest musical collaborations in history were formed on impromptu performances and jams and the best musicians are able to consistently put something new and great together with each performance. Does that mean that songs should be completely formless? Well, no...not necessarily, although some very interesting music has been created with that very pursuit in mind. You are right that a rough idea of the order of solos, style, chord progressions, meter, etc is usually necessary in order to keep everyone on the same page, however.

Music is about communication, and the best musicians in history have been great communicators. You have to develop a feel for how the other musicians you are playing with are speaking, and some people lack this ability.

Mediocre musicians who learn songs like sponges will make tons and tons of mediocre songs. Call me crazy, but I'd rather listen to 1 or two incredible tunes than an entire night of mediocrity. Also, rarely will a virtuoso screw up an arrangement, as the ability to accurately perform a piece is one of the hallmarks of virtuosity.

halfdeadhippo
01-14-2007, 09:29 PM
To be honest, I think it's more the strict arrangements and over-repetition that makes most bands "suck" nowadays. Few things are more annoying than hearing a song on the radio with one catchy chorus melody that's just being repeated repeated repeated before going into a verse then repeating the chorus a billion times again. It's these songs that are only like a minute or two long without the repetition that are the reason most bands "suck" nowadays.

apromisingyear
01-14-2007, 10:06 PM
I like to add to "some jive turkey's" thread starting post...

another reason bands suck is because they insist on following "today's trends".

its rediculous.

Like (for example) when metallica wrote "St. Anger" Lars insisted on "no solos" because he felt they were "outdated".

Kirk made a could counter-point. He said, "if we write these songs without solos it will date them to this time period" then he went on to say "i dont want to follow a trend like most bands are following now-a-days".

its true. Bands want to play music that is popular worldwide/nationwide. What happens hundreds and thousands of bands try to emulate a handful of successful bands and become the trend with them. Then that handful of successful bands turns into hundreds of successful bands (not just playing the same genre, but the same style of music). Then eventually, people get tired of it and it dies out because it was force-fed down everyone's throats.

thats what happened with disco in the 70's
metal/hair metal in the 80's
divas/pop stars in the 90's
and now with emo...

it gets beat to death.

thats another reason bands suck...bands begin following the trends because they either like one of the successful bands (rather than playing their own styles). If you do that it gets watered down and fake-sounding. OR a band will do it just to "get rich".

Original from the soul is where its at.

No one has been able to emulate the success of the greats (Metallica, Areosmith, Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Notroious BIG, 2 Pac, Led Zepplin, Black Sabbath) but we hand hundreds that tried (no need to name names here...everyone can list at least 5)...and make us tired of it.

Jon
01-15-2007, 02:55 AM
About communicaton - there is *nothing* better than when you're jamming with another guitarist, a band, whatever, and you know which chords each other will play instinctively. Or when a drummer just knows what fills should come where, when there's going to be a new section and changes the pattern, etc.

Communication is basically what makes it fun to be a musician, those moments (for lack of any other avenues for me at the moment, I can't wait till I gig properly :() are what I live for.

Tiger
01-15-2007, 09:07 AM
This is an interesting topic.

Im currently having to teach my bass player 60 minutes of material for our album, and they are songs on the order of complexity of Meshuggah. About 4-5 minute songs, rarely repeating riffs, etc.

We just review everything every practice (its us sitting in front of the computer playing to a drum sequence) and try to get it second nature. There is no way to rely on the rest of the band to signal changes, not with this kind of music/meter. But even if we were playing rock songs it'd still be extremely important, at least to us, to have the changes and pulse locked in tight as a drum.

Jon
01-15-2007, 09:17 AM
demos.

pitchfork
01-15-2007, 09:52 AM
The reason most bands suck is because they have no talent more like.
and because instead of musical sensationalism they use musical quality

and then theres the fact many people think alike (kids mainly, so many have no personality of their own) so you hear 1000's of bands hurling out the same crap.

downtheway
01-15-2007, 10:38 PM
Most bands suck because they suck, period.

^
this

Phototropic
01-16-2007, 08:16 AM
good thread!

i agree, if every single band member is tight on all the changes then the song has a magic vibe

my band jams, gets a basic feel for where the tune can go, records it rough and then we can all listen to it over a week or so and come in with tight arrangement ideas and other stuff

DougJI
01-17-2007, 03:14 PM
My band generally writes the basic song, we jam on it and figure out what works and use head nods and such to point out changes till the lyrics are finished. The lyrics tend to decide the song structure for us 90% of the time. We eventually write down the structure though..

A white board would be VERY useful.

Seafroggys
01-17-2007, 04:05 PM
I'm good at coming up with structures, if I don't write the progressions I usually write the structure.

cadencethefire
01-17-2007, 05:10 PM
Most bands suck because they're impatient, hard headed, lazy and/or talentless
the bands that don't suck take time with the music they're writing (with a few exceptions) and practice it until it's perfect