My grip...

[stevensonmat2]

Ive noticed that I have my hand higher on the stick in my left hand than on my right. Does htis really matter, and if so how can I fix it?

[Brokensticks]

Move one hand further up the stick or move the other hand back down the stick ? Seems logical?

[stevensonmat2]

Well it sounds simple and I do what you mentioned, but it always ends up in the same place. Im wondering if maybe the way I grip the stick is the problem..

[The Ska Man]

Not really, doesn't matter at all unless you feel it's hindering you.

[CARMEN77]

Move it down dude. Both hands should look exactly the same, finger postions and everything. Start slow if it feels uncomfortable.

[FockerTheLopper]

Alright I'm gonna try to give a little tuturial on how to properly hold a stick in matched grip.
1. Stand up and relax your arms/hands 100%

2. Bend your elbows 90 degrees while still keeping your hands relaxed

3. Grab the stick with your left hand and place it in your right hand slightly angled downwards(if you can hold the stick in a traditional grip playing style it helps) then close your hand until you have a loose grip on the stick.

4. The fulcrum should be between your index finger(first one) and thumb. Depending on how you angled your stick it could be too high/low, if it feels uncomfortable adjust it to your liking.

Your fulcrum(where the stick moves) should be between your index finger and thumb. This means that the strokes shouldn't come from there.

5. Keep your hand very loose and relaxed so that the butt of the stick hits the back of hand(opposite side that your thumb is on).

6. From there just wrap your 3 back fingers around the stick and try doing a stroke

I took some pictures maybe they can help a bit

This is the fulcrum often you see inexperienced players accually playing this way, you have no control over the stick if you don't use your other fingers
http://i11.tinypic.com/2z5j345.jpg
The same exact thing exept that I just closed my fingers
http://i11.tinypic.com/43rp3qq.jpg
This is how the stick should be when you are ready to do the stroke
http://i16.tinypic.com/3ycvlfs.jpg
You can see that all the fingers are on it and the fulcrum is simply supporting the sticks motion

[FockerTheLopper]

When you go back down you don't even need to have your index finger wrapped around the stick because it doesn't move the stick, it is simply a guide as to where the stick goes
http://i16.tinypic.com/339htz6.jpg

Alot of younger drummers believe that wrist strokes shouldn't bounce, this is how you should hold the stick during a wrist stroke, the stick still moves in your hand the difference is that your wrist is bringing it down
http://i10.tinypic.com/2z5sknk.jpg

The stick is light(and thats a Hardimon they don't get much bigger than that) you should develop a delicate touch on the stick and be able to have a flexible fulcrum
http://i1.tinypic.com/3yo8g86.jpg

[stevensonmat2]

Ahh! Dude thanks! I never realized but my left thumb was to close to my hand, I just had to move it down an inch and it feels rediculously more comfortable/playable. Also, I see my left hand had the stick at the right length, but not my right. >.< Thanks all for the responses, and thank you for the guide. :chug:

[FockerTheLopper]

Ahh! Dude thanks! I never realized but my left thumb was to close to my hand, I just had to move it down an inch and it feels rediculously more comfortable/playable. Thanks all for the responses, and thank you for the guide. :chug:

NP, it accually feels good do one of these things, glad I could someone

[Josiah]

I'm sorry, but those are horrible grip examples. If you really hold the stick like that, you need to see an instructor and work some things out.

Stevensonmat2 - Make your way over to VicFirth.com and check out Doms Cyber Lessons. Lots of good stuff on several different grips and strokes.

[FockerTheLopper]

I'm sorry, but those are horrible grip examples. If you really hold the stick like that, you need to see an instructor and work some things out.

Stevensonmat2 - Make your way over to VicFirth.com and check out Doms Cyber Lessons. Lots of good stuff on several different grips and strokes.

I have an instructor and while he never commented on my grip he taught me and he said that he benifited from it, plus every one has different hands so it might look odd to you but I have full control of the sticks everytime I play.
I see your point where the stick completely down but I'm complete loose therefore the stick doesn't fall into my fingers but with the strokes the sticks are always in my fingers and I'm able to control them

[jiashen]

I used to think that my left hand is higher up the stick than my right hand too, then I realised because my left little finger is somehow more bent towards the other fingers, it exposes more of the stick butt. The fulcrums of both hands are actually at the same spot. hahaha.

Dom Famularo suggests that how you catch a stick after you've tossed it in the air is how you should hold the stick, but I think it's kinda screwed up.

[raz0r]

Move it down dude. Both hands should look exactly the same, finger postions and everything. Start slow if it feels uncomfortable.

Why?
People playing traditional grip have completely different grips for both hands.

Having a slightly different grip in each hand isn't really that big an issue.

[Grazzum]

I play with Match stick grip, always have. But it was only until recently that I got lessons and my drum instructor said I needed to make my fulcrum between the index and thumb (as mentioned before), but also to have the fulcrum between the first knuckle (The one nearest the tip of finger), instead of the second knuckle and thumb (which was what I was doing). After abit of practice I found a very noticable difference. A good way to think of it is literally as if you're holding a match then wrap your fingers loosly around.

[Pearldrumguy]

When you go back down you don't even need to have your index finger wrapped around the stick because it doesn't move the stick, it is simply a guide as to where the stick goes
http://i16.tinypic.com/339htz6.jpg

Alot of younger drummers believe that wrist strokes shouldn't bounce, this is how you should hold the stick during a wrist stroke, the stick still moves in your hand the difference is that your wrist is bringing it down
http://i10.tinypic.com/2z5sknk.jpg

The stick is light(and thats a Hardimon they don't get much bigger than that) you should develop a delicate touch on the stick and be able to have a flexible fulcrum
http://i1.tinypic.com/3yo8g86.jpg

dude..nothing personal but you have no fulcrum in these pictures.

[Pearldrumguy]

I play with Match stick grip, always have. But it was only until recently that I got lessons and my drum instructor said I needed to make my fulcrum between the index and thumb (as mentioned before), but also to have the fulcrum between the first knuckle (The one nearest the tip of finger), instead of the second knuckle and thumb (which was what I was doing). After abit of practice I found a very noticable difference. A good way to think of it is literally as if you're holding a match then wrap your fingers loosly around.

Yes. That is proper technique and it feels weird when you change your bad habits because your not used to it but the end product makes your playing sound/ feel so much better. I recently fixed that same problem. I just learn like 2 weeks ago how to play match correctly with both hands...im a snare player so yea.

heres the vic firth lesson

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/wesselsgrip.html

[crazyguy832]

When playing with Vic Firth sticks, the balance point is at the flag.

:chug:

[skidrumbum]

if its tighter wont that mean more tence and wont taht mean easer to get carpotunnel?
just what i think.

[Pearldrumguy]

if all you do is play with tension that will cause tendon problems and carpletunnel. You dont hold it tigher its your technique and stroke that holds it.

[poopoogaypoonn]

When playing with Vic Firth sticks, the balance point is at the flag.

:chug:

tHE Fulcrum point is diff. for each stick

[crazyguy832]

^^^
No... on ALL the Vic Firth sticks I have EVER played, the fulcrum is at the flag.

[poopoogaypoonn]

no stick is designed EXACTLY the same their for the fulcrum isnt found in the same place. Plus telling someone to grip a stick in a certain part like you are suggesting is ridiculous considering the fact ppl have smaller/bigger hands.

[FockerTheLopper]

dude..nothing personal but you have no fulcrum in these pictures.

Yeah there is, its between the first "bone" in the index finger and the side of the thumb, its better then the more common french fulcrum because there is less stick to bone contact(if you don't have much meat on your fingertips like me)

[Josiah]

haha nah man, your grip really blows. And I do mean REALLY.

I could post a bunch of pictures of good grips... but what would be the point? Your grip looks nothing like even generic pictures of good examples.

And french? what... there's no dicernable grip being used in any of those pictures. It's just a mess.

Having multiple pictures of your grip, you deffinetly need to seek out professional instruction. The grip is the foundation of your playing, it's importance is untold. Yours looks like a house sitting on quicksand on the side of a cliff...

[FockerTheLopper]

haha nah man, your grip really blows. And I do mean REALLY.

I could post a bunch of pictures of good grips... but what would be the point? Your grip looks nothing like even generic pictures of good examples.

And french? what... there's no dicernable grip being used in any of those pictures. It's just a mess.

Having multiple pictures of your grip, you deffinetly need to seek out professional instruction. The grip is the foundation of your playing, it's importance is untold. Yours looks like a house sitting on quicksand on the side of a cliff...

You know how your ussually right about most everything? This you aren't. How do I know? Because my I can do anything with my grip, super loud super soft, fast slow etc(of course when I say anything I mean to my own playing abilities, my grip won't enable me to phrase like Vinnie).
The pictures are also inatimate so its not a fair picture but it looks good to me anyway

[Josiah]

You know how your ussually right about most everything? This you aren't. How do I know? Because my I can do anything with my grip, super loud super soft, fast slow etc(of course when I say anything I mean to my own playing abilities, my grip won't enable me to phrase like Vinnie).
The pictures are also inatimate so its not a fair picture but it looks good to me anyway


Oh really now... haha I some how greatly disbelieve you will out play me. And I'm not talking about phrasing. Just sheer technical note playing.

How fast now brown cow? Hmmm

http://josiahmicheletti.com/dynamics1.jpg
http://josiahmicheletti.com/dynamics2.jpg


What tempo can you cleanly play through those 2 pages?


Inaminate or not. Someone who has a good grip can display it still or in motion.

Your grip looks like crap, from every angle and view in multiple shots.


You know, it's not like we are trying to make you feel bad here, the idea is to help you become a better player. People, highly independant people, who are far better players then you are telling you, something is wrong with your grip. Maybe you should look into improving your grip....

[FockerTheLopper]

Oh really now... haha I some how greatly disbelieve you will out play me. And I'm not talking about phrasing. Just sheer technical note playing.

How fast now brown cow? Hmmm

http://josiahmicheletti.com/dynamics1.jpg
http://josiahmicheletti.com/dynamics2.jpg


What tempo can you cleanly play through those 2 pages?


Inaminate or not. Someone who has a good grip can display it still or in motion.

Your grip looks like crap, from every angle and view in multiple shots.


You know, it's not like we are trying to make you feel bad here, the idea is to help you become a better player. People, highly independant people, who are far better players then you are telling you, something is wrong with your grip. Maybe you should look into improving your grip....

My teacher(a pro very good player) never commented on it and has a grip similar to mine, I understand your trying to help me, and I would listen but you don't have enough to judge. Either way, I got through the first page at 176(singles and doubles but my hands are cold) and second page at 100 but I didn't try for that because I'm going to woodshed on the clarinet now.

Edit: I never said I'd outplay you also and if I said that it is a miscommunication, the only thing I can probably do that you can't is a stupid stick trick that I hit the stick into the drum and it flips backwards but that really has no relevance to drumming.

[Jeff]

My teacher(a pro very good player) never commented on it and has a grip similar to mine

well ya. some teachers have crappy technique and pass that on to their students.

find a new teacher. or at least just fix the grip on your own.

[Pearldrumguy]

You can't help people who don't want it. We are all telling him it's bad so he can fix it but he's taking it badly like we are insulting him or something.

[FockerTheLopper]

You can't help people who don't want it. We are all telling him it's bad so he can fix it but he's taking it badly like we are insulting him or something.

No, I understand that you are trying to help me but as you said I don't want help. Why don't I want help? Because I don't need it... Mr. Gadd http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/stevegaddcrazyarmy.html Notice his right hand, kinda looks like mine when I play.

P.S. To jos, your criticizing the grip but you really said nothing about it, you just said it was bad, I have a steady fulcrum and control of the stick with all fingers and the pictures helped the threadstarter to improve his grip, I don't know what your trying to say.

And to pearldrumguy you really have no credibility to criticize without a full explination so lets see pics of your grip

[Sour Kraut]

^^^
No... on ALL the Vic Firth sticks I have EVER played, the fulcrum is at the flag.
that's called the optimum balance point, not fulcrum.

and the pictures helped the threadstarter to improve his grip

thats what you think.

please dont pass around bad technique advice.

[Porkofski]

come on jos and pearlguy... his grip isnt that bad.

[Josiah]

P.S. To jos, your criticizing the grip but you really said nothing about it, you just said it was bad, I have a steady fulcrum and control of the stick with all fingers and the pictures helped the threadstarter to improve his grip, I don't know what your trying to say.

And to pearldrumguy you really have no credibility to criticize without a full explination so lets see pics of your grip


Like pearldrumguy said, you have no fulcrum in those pictures. Amoungst other issues.


http://i11.tinypic.com/43rp3qq.jpg

Is prob the closest shot to a decent grip of them all. Except our thumb still isn't quiet on the stick. It should be inline with the stick and having a deffinite point of contact with controlable force AKA fulcrum pressure.
The a good fulcrum point is controlable, solid and still alows for relaxed movement of the stick. Matched most the time finds the fulcrum between the thumb and index fingers 1st joint. It's a pinching thing, if you play a single rebound stroke, you can control the number of bounces simply by changing the pressure at this point.


http://i16.tinypic.com/3ycvlfs.jpg

There's no fulcrum in this picture at all, and the angles are just jacked as can be. The thumb is now completelly alongside the stick, not pinching it against any particular finger, therefore there is no fulcrum.
And the position of fingers, thumb and stick placement have changed drastically from the last shot.

The fulcrum control should be maintained throughout the entire stroke, the remaining fingers should only open and close for vertical stick movement, and to minimize sideways movement.

Anyway I'd recomend checking out Dom's Cyber lessons on vicfirth.com and checkout various marching texts/pictures if you can.


*btw it's not uncommon for teachers to teach bad things, not catch mistakes or otherwise. I've had to correct badhabits students have picked up from others. and even pro's can make mistakes and play with bad technique.

[Retarded Chipple]

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/wesselsgrip.html

Schwing :)

[Josiah]

nice!

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/gifs/grip/right5.jpg

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/gifs/grip/right7.jpg

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/articles/gifs/grip/right6.jpg

Now those are some good grip examples.

[fishbulb]

Shouldn't your grip just be however you pick up the sticks and start playing and if it doesn't bother you or limit your playing then you should be fine with it?

[Josiah]

Shouldn't your grip just be however you pick up the sticks and start playing and if it doesn't bother you or limit your playing then you should be fine with it?

Deffinetly not. Due to the physical AND highly repetitive nature of drums, improper technique can and will lead to injuries. Tendon issues, such as CTS or Tendonitis, also cysts can develop.

[FockerTheLopper]

Deffinetly not. Due to the physical AND highly repetitive nature of drums, improper technique can and will lead to injuries. Tendon issues, such as CTS or Tendonitis, also cysts can develop.

Jos, thank you for the explaination but once again, I have a fulcrum and it IS where you said, the first joint of the first finger and the thumb, the difference is that I don't curl my first finger around the stick(sometimes I do, I don't need it closed) and I use the side of my thumb instead of the tip. Thank you for trying to help, but again my grip is fine, I compare my own grip to the ones in the pictures and the difference(sp?) is that the side of my thumb is the second point of the fulcrum. As a matter of fact, I can play the same way as the picture but I feel there is too much pressure on my thumb when the sticks come up, the way I hold the stick the pressure of the rebounding stick is eased on the back.

Anyway once again I thank you guys but my grip is not lingering me in any way as someone said in this thread "you can't help somebody who doesn't want help" in my case I don't believe I need help. Those pictures are pretty good but you really haven't seen me play, plus I'm not putting any pressure therefore the stick doesn't fall back onto my fingers...

Anyway I just took a minute to record a little sample of basic things, I mess up a bit but w/e its just rough not really warmed up and I haven't really practiced this stuff much, more into grooving now but... Pretty much flam triplets forgot what sticking I used, then ratamacues, paradiddles, doubles singles, then at the end I just did singles as fast as I could go. With the singles(with dynamics) I was using french grip with wrist.

Actually if you guys want to give some advice... What should I practice to get both of my FF double strokes even? I can't accent the second one that high at high speeds so exept for that one?(You'll hear they sound bumpy in the clip)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=490620

First one is that the other 3 are greek songs I'm learning on clarinet, I've been playing about 5 months, not too good but for 5 months I'm getting a decent tone

I uploaded something pretty cool/funny I just did I'm whilsting a greek song while playing the beat on drums and it nots too bad... Anyway the clarinet ones are pretty painful but this one is pretty good and it goes through the form of most greek songs... Anyway enjoy!

[sLarkin20]

If someone can play holding their sticks in between their ring finger and thumb just as fluidly as someone with a more traditional and accepted grip, you cant tell them that they are "wrong."

Sure it might only work for that person and it might seem like an akward as hell way to hold the sticks, but I believe as long as they aren't hurting themselves, and are capable of doing whatever the next person can with something more accepted like say the American grip, then let them have at it.

Granted that kind of crazy grip is just an example, but point is if its comfortable for someone and they can play like that...I wouldn't consider it "wrong"...WEIRD maybe : ), but nothing wrong with it.

[Pearldrumguy]

When the stick is on the side of your thumb it is not a fulcrum. The stick doesnt has maximum control with all that space around it. Plus Steve gadd does has s fulcrum. He just plays with a gap between his palm and side of thumb but the stick is still in between his first joint and tip of his thumb.

If someone can play holding their sticks in between their ring finger and thumb just as fluidly as someone with a more traditional and accepted grip, you cant tell them that they are "wrong."

Sure it might only work for that person and it might seem like an akward as hell way to hold the sticks, but I believe as long as they aren't hurting themselves, and are capable of doing whatever the next person can with something more accepted like say the American grip, then let them have at it.

Granted that kind of crazy grip is just an example, but point is if its comfortable for someone and they can play like that...I wouldn't consider it "wrong"...WEIRD maybe : ), but nothing wrong with it.

I have a class dedicated to percussion techniques and the instructor always says that is an incorrect technique and it hinders your ability. Most people that play like that probably cant do flams. Which I'm not sure how many people on here know the details of a correct flam.

Mine
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/fhs_snare/download-1.jpg

[FockerTheLopper]

If someone can play holding their sticks in between their ring finger and thumb just as fluidly as someone with a more traditional and accepted grip, you cant tell them that they are "wrong."

Sure it might only work for that person and it might seem like an akward as hell way to hold the sticks, but I believe as long as they aren't hurting themselves, and are capable of doing whatever the next person can with something more accepted like say the American grip, then let them have at it.

Granted that kind of crazy grip is just an example, but point is if its comfortable for someone and they can play like that...I wouldn't consider it "wrong"...WEIRD maybe : ), but nothing wrong with it.

Seriously thank you, you guys are going off on nothing, my grip isn't hindering my playing at all, I get all the rebound of the sticks full control and when I play the way your playing with the tip of the thumb it hurts because I feel too much pressure on the thumb when the sticks rebound... Open your minds, not everyone has the same grip and by definition
1. the support, or point of rest, on which a lever turns in moving a body.
2. any prop or support. the thumb and joint support the stick, the stick turns between them freely.

I gave your technique a try, while it works and you are able to play in most positions it doesn't feel natural to me, does this mean mine is better? Yes, to me its better to you it probably isn't.

[jiashen]

Maybe someone can help me out here: I think it was Rhythm magazine that ran an article about Gavin Harrison's grip. I was quite amused by it. It's completely asymmetrical, and the left hand I believe holds the sticks right at the butt with the last two fingers. Again, I can't remember it very well because I was just browsing, but if someone can play everything they need to play with control and stamina using a weird grip, not that I care or know how, but power to them!

[alurny]

Maybe someone can help me out here: I think it was Rhythm magazine that ran an article about Gavin Harrison's grip. I was quite amused by it. It's completely asymmetrical, and the left hand I believe holds the sticks right at the butt with the last two fingers. Again, I can't remember it very well because I was just browsing, but if someone can play everything they need to play with control and stamina using a weird grip, not that I care or know how, but power to them!

Agree however bad grip can lead to injury. But if it works it works I guess. :chug:

[The Jolly Pakistani]

"but I believe as long as they aren't hurting themselves, and are capable of doing whatever the next person can with something more accepted like say the American grip, then let them have at it. "

I'm tempted to put this in size seven font and paste it all over this thread :p. Took the damn words right outta my mouth.