Death

[Meatplow]

Death to me is defined personally as simply the end, where the race ends up at the end of the track. There is no after party however, judging by all logical conclusion we all rot in the ground after simply winking out of existance. It is a maddening thought, as far more brilliant men and women then me have pondered it over and over for centuries and as a result have gone completely bonkers with dwelling on it so much. How does that make the common human feel?

Personally, i get moments where i think about this and shudder. If something can't be comprehended, can't be understood the natural instinct of humans is to be afraid so i guess this is where my feelings come from. Death has been a frightening curiosity to people for far longer then i could account for. Whilst the process of death itself is well ingrained in our conciousness it is often cast over by the other question, what happens when we die? It's a lonely thought, and in it's bare basics science suggests that conciousness just ceases to exist. This thought is too much for some, as such an existance cannot be comprehended by even the most brilliant human. It's because of this simple, maddening thought that nothing will be that has made people feel empty for centuries, myself included. Life feels hollow and transparent if you simply accept that our conciousness exists for no purpose. One thinks about that final step past the finish goal, and then what? It cannot be comprehended in a world where logic, order and answers are demanded by most.

People require something to believe in. Religion is everywhere, and offers answers based on faith. Death doesn't seem to exist when we have something there, something to content our minds with regarding death. There is another option however, forget about death all together and just live. For those who reject religion and live this kind of life, they take stock in other areas of life. Material possessions, relationships with others, work etc. A moral code still exists for the most part, but if life is nothing and there is no consequences of heaven and hell to believe in at the end, what stops people from rejecting the moral code and becoming obsessed with sex & violence and what is generally considered all kinds of anti-moralistic activities. It seems to be a cesspool of hate and corruption. People can philosophise post-modernism and nihilistic ideas to justify it all, and that scares the living hell out of me. With nothing to believe in but life, people are lost. That maddening thought of what is at the end of it cannot be faced, so people have to fill the gap.

I don't know quite where i stand on this, i want to offer a general idea how i perceive death and how it affects people in society. What are your views?

[ringworm]

I think you pretty much nailed it

The fear of realizing your time is up has flowered all these different beliefs.

Mankind generated religion to cope with the coldness of death

I pretty much feel like you do what you can while you're here, but when you're gone, that's it, all that is left is decaying matter and a few pictures to show where you've been

[PerpetualBurn]

Personally my favourite discussion on the subject of death is Sartre's The Wall. It's only a short story, and you can easily find a copy online. I strongly recommend it.

[lfantwister]

Am I the only one who feels inspired by the approach of death? So that I don't die a meaningless tramp but someone who's done something?

[dei]

Am I the only one who feels inspired by the approach of death? So that I don't die a meaningless tramp but someone who's done something?

Unless it's something radical, it won't mean much.

[thedeadwalk!]

Whether through religion or athiesm we all have our means to cope with the idea of death, or not. Don't rag on people because they believe in an afterlife to get them through. Odds are, that's just extra cushioning on dreams for their family and themselves they would like to see done before they die.

It pains me when people complain of the corruption in religion. I'm an athiest myself, but this occurs in those that hold positions of power; a minority. The common practitioner is appauled by it, too.

[dei]

I think corruption is what makes religion attractive.

[Mr. Ron]

As a non-religious person, I see death as a motivator to live my life to the fullest, since this is all I'm going to get. So, I'm not scared of death, just an unlived life.

[The End]

lol you guys are so certain that when you die thats it.

lol

ok ur the experts though

[Mr. Ron]

lol you guys are so certain that when you die thats it.

lol

ok ur the experts though

How are you so certain there is something after this life?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

OH, IT'S NOT SO BAD.

[Mr. Ron]

OH, IT'S NOT SO BAD.

!!!

[dei]

I don't know what happens after we die, but I'm hoping for nothing.

[uhhyeah]

I guess I won't be 100% sure until I get there. I'm pretty sure there isn't anything waiting for me though. I'm agnostic.

[spitfirejunky]

Judging by how I have absolutely no memory of anything that occurred before I was born, I'd imagine that death would be the exact same nothingness.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

!!!

<doesn't know if this reply means you get the reference or not>

[The End]

How are you so certain there is something after this life?

find where i said i was

[PerpetualBurn]

I think the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that any part of your consciousness remains is good enough to suggest that nothing happens after death.

[lunchforthesky]

I would actually prefer nothing to taking my chances with the devil. Read the bible cause if its right then 99% of the world is in a lot of trouble.

[PerpetualBurn]

But what if the Norse were right!?!?

Odin! I'm sorry!

Edit: Uh oh! I just remembered that Ra's probably gonna be pissed off too!

[lunchforthesky]

At least those Gods are way cooler than Christian ones. I prefer Zeus, the pantheon was like the best soap opera ever.

[PerpetualBurn]

It's all about Thor's hammer.

[lunchforthesky]

pffft

HERETIC SCUM

[PerpetualBurn]

You know that Valhalla is going to be the most kickarse of all the after-lifes.

[lunchforthesky]

Nah crusing down the river stix listening to every great metal song ever for all enternity.

[DougJI]

I find that thinking about what happens to the mind after death is like thinking what happens to the light from a lightbulb when its turned off or burnt out. It simply doesn't exist anymore, the circuit isn't complete, and it just doesn't exist.


(im speaking about it in the metaphoric terms, not in scientific photons being shot off etc terms)

[thedeadwalk!]

At least those Gods are way cooler than Christian ones. I prefer Zeus, the pantheon was like the best soap opera ever.
The christian ones?

[lunchforthesky]

that was a typo but you could say that the holy spirit, jesus and god is basically polytheism under the guise of monotheism, even more so with catholics considering the way they treat saints and the virgin mary.

[Chrysostom]

My view on death: We'll know (or won't know as the case may be), when we get there. I'm open-minded, but sceptical.

[Mr. Ron]

find where i said i was

lol you guys are so certain that when you die thats it.


You were referring to those who think nothing happens when we die. How do you know what happens after we die?

[Mr. Ron]

But what if the Norse were right!?!?

Odin! I'm sorry!

Edit: Uh oh! I just remembered that Ra's probably gonna be pissed off too!

If I were to follow any religion, it would be the Norse one. It kicks ***.

[lunchforthesky]

seen as there is no evidence to to suggest otherwise it would make sense to assume nothing happens

[Mr. Ron]

seen as there is no evidence to to suggest otherwise it would make sense to assume nothing happens

I agree.

[Apollyon]

There's no way to know what actually happens when you die, because generally there's no one around to talk about the experience. "Logic" says we just wink out of existence because we as humans don't believe that there's anything out there we can't explain. Naivety. I'm not siding with religion either, because as you said:

People require something to believe in. Religion is everywhere, and offers answers based on faith. Death doesn't seem to exist when we have something there, something to content our minds with regarding death.

Basically, it's nothing we're ever going to know. Kind of like asking, "How big is the universe?" Who knows? Too big for us to measure at this point in time, but that's no reason to say it goes on forever or that it ends into nothingness at it's boundaries. We should worry more about realistic, current issues at hand than what's going to happen once our bodies get too old to keep working.

[PsychoTronn]

i believe death feels like it did before we were born

[MegaPhony]

I couldn't fit my thoughts into one of these text boxes and make sense at the same time.

[toxicmudd]

Personally, i get moments where i think about this and shudder. If something can't be comprehended, can't be understood the natural instinct of humans is to be afraid so i guess this is where my feelings come from.

personally, from a logical science based view, life is far far harder to comprehend than death. at what point do a load of subatomic molecules go hmmm, i fancy a coffee???? surely by this theory, if u get enough marbles (trillions and trillions) you could make life? i don't know. one to try maybe. that is why death doesnt worry me, I'm far too scared of life.

Edit : oh and yeah, the blades suck. im looking at u pb :p

[PerpetualBurn]

Edit : oh and yeah, the blades suck. im looking at u pb :p

I'd get angry and wrathful, but we lost 3-0 to Swansea today, having beaten Arsenal last week.

It was quite evident we didn't give a monkey's about the match today, but it's still an embarrassment.

[peeted]

i dont believe nothing happens after death, i dont know what happens, im shure we dont go to heaven and float around with wings or go to valhala but i think that there is a part of humanity wich exceeds mearley physical being and theres no reason to believe that wen our physical manifestation ends our none physical self ends too. Weather this means we float around as a soul in the clowds, come back as another life form or just live on through the impact we have had on the world we live in i dont know, but i am confident that we dont just cese to be.

[PerpetualBurn]

Lol @ concept of soul

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Lol @ concept of soul

omg 48 grammmes lol

[peeted]

The word soul is out dated and vague, the concept of there being more than mearley a physical existance is not.

[PerpetualBurn]

Lol!!!

[peeted]

man, i wish i was you, your thinking is simply flawless, you construct some of the best arguments i have ever seen, respect to you!

[Devil's Reject]

As a non-religious person, I see death as a motivator to live my life to the fullest, since this is all I'm going to get. So, I'm not scared of death, just an unlived life.

Spoken like a true gentleman.

[PerpetualBurn]

man, i wish i was you, your thinking is simply flawless, you construct some of the best arguments i have ever seen, respect to you!

You need to work on your sarcasm. And I was being charitable by not taking up the point properly.

But, since that's clearly not enough, here we go:

Since science now understands the nature of matter and energy, and understands its forms, and appreciates the methodology of detection, to suggest the existence of a soul is to suggest that there is something acting and interfering with our plane of existence that has somehow, until now, been undetectable.

If you aren't taking this to a logical conclusion on your own, I'll help you out a bit; you are suggesting that the soul has absolutely no physical presence yet it is an intrinsic part of us. You suggest it is inextricably bonded to me during my life, but it has thus far eluded us.

If you wish to suggest anything more than what we know of human life, get some reasoning or evidence, and then explain scientifically why it should have eluded science to this point.

And, before you get at me for it, I know you didn't say "soul" but actually your term "something more than the physical" is exactly if not close to synonymous.

[peeted]

What your suggesting is that we are merely the sum of our parts, that our behaviour is biologically pre-determined and that we don't have free will. Well i for one strongly disagree with this point of view, i think that humans have an element of free will and control over there lives which we wouldn't have if we were merely the sum of our parts, so there must be something more than this, like ideas and thoughts etc.

There is plenty of objective evidence to support this point of view, for instance cross cultural studies on gender were they have found biological males behaving just like what we think biological females "should" behave.

Science is very far away from finding out how we think and what makes us people.

[Nadinus]

You need to work on your sarcasm. And I was being charitable by not taking up the point properly.

But, since that's clearly not enough, here we go:

Since science now understands the nature of matter and energy, and understands its forms, and appreciates the methodology of detection, to suggest the existence of a soul is to suggest that there is something acting and interfering with our plane of existence that has somehow, until now, been undetectable.

If you aren't taking this to a logical conclusion on your own, I'll help you out a bit; you are suggesting that the soul has absolutely no physical presence yet it is an intrinsic part of us. You suggest it is inextricably bonded to me during my life, but it has thus far eluded us.

If you wish to suggest anything more than what we know of human life, get some reasoning or evidence, and then explain scientifically why it should have eluded science to this point.

And, before you get at me for it, I know you didn't say "soul" but actually your term "something more than the physical" is exactly if not close to synonymous.

I totally disagree with this. Who says that what we can physically detect and explain is all there is in the world? However much scientific research is done, we can't explain conscience. We can't explain feelings (I'm talking about actually feeling, not the chemicals or whatever which cause them) I think the idea that our minds are just a product of a load of cells is a pretty depressing one.

[PerpetualBurn]

What your suggesting is that we are merely the sum of our parts

Anyone else stop reading after this fine display of stupidity?

I think the idea that our minds are just a product of a load of cells is a pretty depressing one.

At first I didn't think you were an idiot and then BAM!!! appeal to emotion.

Unlucky.

[Nadinus]

At first I didn't think you were an idiot and then BAM!!! appeal to emotion.

Unlucky.

Are you incapable of a mature discussion without trying to insult anyone who has an alternative view to you?

Anyway, to continue this, how is that stupid? I believe that our brains are a product of our minds (well, and mitosis), not the other way round which is the commonly held viewpoint.

[PerpetualBurn]

Are you incapable of a mature discussion without trying to insult anyone who has an alternative view to you?

Yes. But today is not your lucky day.

Anyway, to continue this, how is that stupid? I believe that our brains are a product of our minds (well, and mitosis), not the other way round which is the commonly held viewpoint.

Brains are a product of our minds?

So we imagined we had a brain and then we had a brain.

You're right. That's not stupid. That's a ****ing joke.

[peeted]

Anyone else stop reading after this fine display of stupidity?



good point, i now believe that i am nothing more than a lump of skin and bones which has predetermined thoughts triggered by chemicals in my brain. Tank you for helping me realise this about myself, it has been a true revelation.

Please spare the charity and make some serious points.

[_Sock]

What do you think you have more than that then? A soul? o.0

[Nadinus]

It doesn't matter what you wanna call it, but we are self-aware and no amount of scientifically explaining the chemicals in our brain can physically describe that.

[_Sock]

So when we make a computer that is self aware, will it also have some mysterious force inside of it?

[PerpetualBurn]

good point, i now believe that i am nothing more than a lump of skin and bones which has predetermined thoughts triggered by chemicals in my brain. Tank you for helping me realise this about myself, it has been a true revelation.

Please spare the charity and make some serious points.

Nothing can be more than the sum of its parts. Anything it has is a part.

Idiot.

It doesn't matter what you wanna call it, but we are self-aware and no amount of scientifically explaining the chemicals in our brain can physically describe that.

"I don't know what causes self-awareness therefore I have a soul"

[Petros]

Nothing can be more than the sum of its parts. Anything it has is a part.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

"A mutually advantageous conjunction where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts."

[Nadinus]

PerpetualBurn, you are a serious idiot. Please actually take in to account what people are saying before calling them a moron.

[PerpetualBurn]

Synergy or synergism (from the Greek synergos, συνεργός meaning working together, circa 1660) refers to the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents

The fact the effect is magnified is pretty much not helping your cause at all.

[Amit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

"A mutually advantageous conjunction where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts."

excellent job misusing the definition of a word

[Nadinus]

neither is your lack of maturity.

[Petros]

Evolution is a form of emergent behavior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_behavior

"Emergence is the process of complex pattern formation from more basic constituent parts."

[Petros]

excellent job misusing the definition of a word

google define:synergy

[Amit]

yes but what is your point exactly

you still haven't proven perpetualburn wrong

[Petros]

yes but what is your point exactly


That complex behavior results from discrete agents.

[peeted]

if our behaviour is completely defined by our biology then why do biological males in the UK act completely differently to biological males in many tribal communities?

Why is it that none of the studies about biological determinism have come up with 100% conclusive results? there has always been variation. Now its fair to say from the empirical evidence collected over the last few decades that our biology does majorly effect our behaviour, but the same research shows that our behaviour isn't 100% biologically determined.

[Amit]

That complex behavior results from discrete agents.

emergent behavior and properties do not violate perpetualburn's statement though

[Sam]

God doesn't exist. Deal with it you pussies.

[peeted]

were not arguing about god.

[Petros]

emergent behavior and properties do not violate perpetualburn's statement though

Emergent behavior is synergistic.

If you have a problem with it go argue with the scientists who define it that way.

[Amit]

you still haven't proven how it violates his statement

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

God doesn't exist. Deal with it you pussies.

:lol:

If this was in the christianity/atheism thread i might cry a little

but as it stands this is just fantastic

[PerpetualBurn]

if our behaviour is completely defined by our biology then why do biological males in the UK act completely differently to biological males in many tribal communities?

Why is it that none of the studies about biological determinism have come up with 100% conclusive results? there has always been variation. Now its fair to say from the empirical evidence collected over the last few decades that our biology does majorly effect our behaviour, but the same research shows that our behaviour isn't 100% biologically determined.

Environment contributes to behaviour

Therefore

We have a soul

DOES NOT FOLLOW

[Amit]

lol @ peeted

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

if our behaviour is completely defined by our biology then why do biological males in the UK act completely differently to biological males in many tribal communities?

Why is it that none of the studies about biological determinism have come up with 100% conclusive results? there has always been variation. Now its fair to say from the empirical evidence collected over the last few decades that our biology does majorly effect our behaviour, but the same research shows that our behaviour isn't 100% biologically determined.

omg synapses WTF

[peeted]

Environment contributes to behaviour

Therefore

We have a soul

DOES NOT FOLLOW

how would the environment contribute to our behaviour if our behaviour is dictated by our brain chemistry alone?

[Amit]

the environment contributes to our brain "chemistry"

gfg

[peeted]

yes but how?

[Amit]

ugh

in a million different ways

here is one:

http://www.neuroanatomy.wisc.edu/cere/text/P4/climb.htm

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't understand basic behaviourism

therefore

soul

[Petros]

emergent behavior and properties do not violate perpetualburn's statement though

Strongly emergent behavior does. And it does not prove we have a soul.