what do you guys think

[anticipatious_phoenix]

I was posting in another forum and someone started a topic about how they are offended by having bilingual signs in the US. This person's opinion was very underdeveloped, so of course they looked uninformed. So how do you feel about having signs, menus, etc, in foreign languages as well?

I think everyone should know enough English in the US or some other predominately English speaking country to get them by. This means both spoken and written. No one is going to lose their culture by learning the language of the one they are walking into. Let's face it people are allowed to be lazy, everyone caters to them. And yes I am offended by that. If I were to live in another, non-English speaking country, I would learn the language enough to not need very much assistance.

[Apollyon]

Immigrants are so taken with preserving their cultural identity that a very large chunk of them will probably never integrate properly into American society. It's because we allow accommodating factors like bilingual signs and menus, as well as ELS classes where immigrants can sit inside of an English speaking public school and have their lessons presented to them in their own language, on top of countless other factors.

At the elementary school down the road from my house, they have two separate daycares after school. They have one for English speaking kids and one for all the Mexican kids who can't speak English because their parents barely know how to speak English themselves.

I say, if you can't speak the language or don't plan on learning the language, don't move here.

[Akira]

I have no problem with signs and things in Spanish.

[Mr. Ron]

Meh....although I do believe English should be learned by all people in the US, I think instructions and signs should be in English and the second most spoken language in the US.

[anticipatious_phoenix]

What makes you think I was talking about things written in Spanish? I mentioned nothing about a specific language. Someone sounds a little prejudice toward a certain group...

More importantly why would people cry for equal rights (that's why they come here, right?) all the while they still segregate themselves...

[Apollyon]

What makes you think I was talking about things written in Spanish? I mentioned nothing about a specific language. Someone sounds a little prejudice toward a certain group...

It's called an example. And to be honest, yes I am prejudiced against a certain group. Illegal aliens and those who support them.

[Give me Beer]

Oh man, you guys are so screwed. You know, while I'd love to be able to believe that two language communities can exist inside a country, my own country seems to be living prove that it turns out to be an unholdable situation. I love the fact that we've got a French speaking, Dutch speaking and German speaking part, but unfortunatly the current climate seems to indicate that, well, most people don't. The only reason that Belgium hasn't split yet, is because of Brussels (seeing as it is sits in Flemish territory but 90% of the inhabitants are French speaking.... I am by the way posting from Brussels, seeing as I live there as well, but I'm Flemish speaking and a clear minority). You can compare it to two parents staying together for the child... if Brussels wasn't impossible to split, this country would've been history long ago.

Bilingual countries are...well...not workable unless there is one dominating language that everybody agrees on. The USA is letting Spanish become equal to English, and it's going to be a problem in the future, just telling you.

[Yield]

I agree that if your planning on moving to a country where you don't know the predominant language, then you should learn it. Not just because if you don't, your setting yourself apart from everyone else, but it also helps if you want to get good jobs.

Well, learning a second language helps for jobs no matter what so it's a good idea for anyone.

[Give me Beer]

Well, learning a second language helps for jobs no matter what so it's a good idea for anyone.

It's a good idea if only for the cultural benefits. I believe that the language a person thinks in also partly defines the way he thinks, and learning a different language lets you experience a different way of thinking as well. I speak 4 languages fluently and German on a 'I can understand you and say some things but it's really hard' basis and I definitely think it has made me a more rounded person cultural wise. The only way to get to know a culture is to speak the language.

[anticipatious_phoenix]

It's called an example. And to be honest, yes I am prejudiced against a certain group. Illegal aliens and those who support them.



that comment was geared toward the poster after you, not you. sorry about that. :chug:

[Yield]

It's a good idea if only for the cultural benefits. I believe that the language a person thinks in also partly defines the way he thinks, and learning a different language lets you experience a different way of thinking as well. I speak 4 languages fluently and German on a 'I can understand you and say some things but it's really hard' basis and I definitely think it has made me a more rounded person cultural wise. The only way to get to know a culture is to speak the language.

Truth

[griftadan]

it would probably slow down the assimilation process, so i'd rather everything stay in english. plus it would probably cost a shitload of money to remake every single highway sign...

[spitfirejunky]

I think it's unnecessary, but it doesn't bother me.

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

In Canada, no one really complains about bilingual signs, but I guess it's probably because we've had them our whole lives.

But yeah...if your gonna move to a new country, you have every right to hold on to your heritage, just don't expect that country to change for your heritage. If you can't adapt, don't move. If you aren't willing to accept another culture on top of yours, don't move. I don't get why some immigrants think they only have one cultural choice.

So should the USA have to make bilingual or multilingual signs? No it should not. Immigrants should learn English (or French, in Canada) if they wanna live in North America

[Mr. Ron]

it would probably slow down the assimilation process, so i'd rather everything stay in english. plus it would probably cost a shitload of money to remake every single highway sign...

That makes sense.

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't see why people are so keen to preserve a single language country. When people are immersed in other languages (and English would still be used) they usually pick them up really easily.

I'd love to be able to speak another language.

[BassRevelation]

Im honestly not for it. My parents just happened to know english before immigrating here. Everyone else should go with english before we have different cultural groups arguing that its not fair for them to be unrepresented by their language.

[Akira]

it would probably slow down the assimilation process, so i'd rather everything stay in english. plus it would probably cost a poopload of money to remake every single highway sign...

I don't think signs should be remade with multiple languages, but as an optional thing I have no problem.

Ideally I think everyone in America should learn English, but I know that might not always be possible or practical.

[Scuba_Steve]

I think america should stop trying to make all of their inhabitants "american" in terms of being generic english speaking citizens.

Sure, knowing english is a good idea but it's not anybodies buisness telling people what language to speak.

[uhhyeah]

Preface to my post: I am referring to Spanish as the "other" language.

The English learning process generally begins with second generation immigrants because they are young and attending schools. The parents that come over may pick up some broken phrases in English, but usually don't become bilingual like their children. I"m speaking from my teaching experiences.

I think people need to get off their cultural high horse. Yes it is beneficial, and sometimes essential, to know English. We must also remember that we live next door to Latin America. Personally, I think more people should learn Spanish where I live because there wouldn't be such a culture shock when immigrants arrive.

[Scuba_Steve]

I agree with uhhyeah on the cultural high horses bit.


So many people think that people should learn english, but if they were in the immigrants place they most likely wouldnt learn their host countries native language at a rapid pace.

[PerpetualBurn]

People should just relax and let it happen. It's fine to keep English for official matters, but there's no harm in bringing in bilingual signs and the likes.

If people just allow themselves to absorb the new language, they'd probably be much better off.

[Africa]

I think america should stop trying to make all of their inhabitants "american" in terms of being generic english speaking citizens.

Sure, knowing english is a good idea but it's not anybodies buisness telling people what language to speak.

So we should deal out welfare instead, compensate for them not learning English?

[MattSharpIsCool]

I agree with uhhyeah on the cultural high horses bit.


So many people think that people should learn english, but if they were in the immigrants place they most likely wouldnt learn their host countries native language at a rapid pace.

It's not that the immigrants learn the language slowly, a lot of immigrants don't even try to learn english. I'm not just talking about Mexicans. I'm talking about the huge Asian population we have in the northwest, and a lot of the European immigrants.

I'm all for keeping your original language and culture. It's important, it's a huge part of who you are. But if you're moving to a new country or place with a different language and culture, you really should try to learn it.

It's like this. A lot of Europeans dislike American tourists for many reasons, but one of them is because the tourists usually have no grasp of the language at all. If someone comes to your country and expects you to cater to their language and beliefs, most people would have an issue with that.

[uhhyeah]

The immigrants that tend not to learn the language are the parents. The children they bring with them and the following generations learn English because they are exposed to it early and frequently. I've had parents of some of my students who could hardly speak a lick of English because they worked out in the fields picking tomatoes and grapes all day long.

Yes, it benefits the immigrants who learn English, but it would benefit us if we could learn a second language that is appropriate for the area (Spanish, Hmong, Tagalog, Vietnamese, etc.).

[lfantwister]

So long as no one's mandated to learn a language other than English; for safety though I could see how basic English skills could be required. Not even fluency, just proficiency. Or a fluent kid who can translate.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Your school apparently works a little differently than the school I went to. They were constantly calling kids out of their classes to go hang out in their ESL class. How is a kid supposed to learn english if they remove him from his math or english class to go sit around and talk in ESL?

Eventually it got to the point where the kids would raise their hand anytime during class and ask the teacher if they could go to ESL.

So no, it's not just the parents who refuse to learn the language.

[Apollyon]

Your school apparently works a little differently than the school I went to. They were constantly calling kids out of their classes to go hang out in their ESL class. How is a kid supposed to learn english if they remove him from his math or english class to go sit around and talk in ESL?

Eventually it got to the point where the kids would raise their hand anytime during class and ask the teacher if they could go to ESL.

So no, it's not just the parents who refuse to learn the language.

This.

This is the case from kindergarten all the way through high school.

[PerpetualBurn]

It's like this. A lot of Europeans dislike American tourists for many reasons, but one of them is because the tourists usually have no grasp of the language at all. If someone comes to your country and expects you to cater to their language and beliefs, most people would have an issue with that.

Most Europeans learn English because they realise just how beneficial it is.

[uhhyeah]

Your school apparently works a little differently than the school I went to. They were constantly calling kids out of their classes to go hang out in their ESL class. How is a kid supposed to learn english if they remove him from his math or english class to go sit around and talk in ESL?

Eventually it got to the point where the kids would raise their hand anytime during class and ask the teacher if they could go to ESL.

So no, it's not just the parents who refuse to learn the language.

That style of teaching is worthless and does nothing. That's why they've already begun replacing it with newer methods.

One of the reasons that style accomplishes nothing is that the teachers haven't been properly trained on how to effectively teach English to the ESL students. As a result, the students don't learn anything, become frustrated, feel excluded, and end up leaving to go to their ESL class. I've even met some other teachers who refuse to help these students acquire English. Pretty sad.

I wouldn't say they refuse to learn English so much as they haven't been given a proper introduction to the language. With no help the students find it easier to just throw in the towel.

The parents aren't refusing to learn English either. They simply don't have the time to do it. Many come from poor rural areas with very little education and work long hours trying to feed their families.

[Scuba_Steve]

It's not that the immigrants learn the language slowly, a lot of immigrants don't even try to learn english. I'm not just talking about Mexicans. I'm talking about the huge Asian population we have in the northwest, and a lot of the European immigrants.


it's always been like that though, I dont see why everyone is getting all nationalistic lately (not you, but people in general).

My grandparents came from germany shortly after WWII and after almost 40 years in canada my grandpa knows enough english to get by and communicate with people in public but he vastly prefers speaking in german, and he'll do that whenever possible.


I just dont think it's that big of a deal.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Most Europeans learn English because they realise just how beneficial it is.

I'm talking about immigrants from Eastern Europe. There is a pretty large population of Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians, Pols, Estonians, Latvians, and Russians in the area, and it seems like none of them have any kind of understanding of English.

I've got no problem with immigrants, I get along with a lot of them. But I, like most Americans, won't be able to make friends with them if they can't speak a lick of English. I was offered French, Spanish, Japanese, and German in high school, and I picked German. So I have a very basic understanding of a language that can get me by in 2 or 3 countries. A lot of Americans don't even have that (and I think that should change, by the way).

And ok, so the parents have to work a lot. I can understand that, but I still don't see any reason they can't try and pick up the language. If they're out working, they're going to be surrounded by English speaking people, it shouldn't be that hard to at least get a very basic grasp.

What I'm saying is, just try. If you put in an effort to at least understand and speak some English, that's cool. Just don't sit in your home using nothing but your native tongue, and don't hide in ESL whenever you feel like it.

it's always been like that though, I dont see why everyone is getting all nationalistic lately (not you, but people in general).

My grandparents came from germany shortly after WWII and after almost 40 years in canada my grandpa knows enough english to get by and communicate with people in public but he vastly prefers speaking in german, and he'll do that whenever possible.


I just dont think it's that big of a deal.

I agree, it's not that big of a deal, and I'm sure eventually we will have road signs in English and Spanish. Everything in Canada is in English and French, and no Canadians seem to have a problem with it.

But I think those signs should only serve as a way to ease immigrants into our culture, not as a crutch for them to lean on, knowing they'll never really have to learn English.

[Apollyon]

it's always been like that though, I dont see why everyone is getting all nationalistic lately (not you, but people in general).

My grandparents came from germany shortly after WWII and after almost 40 years in canada my grandpa knows enough english to get by and communicate with people in public but he vastly prefers speaking in german, and he'll do that whenever possible.


I just dont think it's that big of a deal.

The problem lies in the desire held by a lot of immigrants to retain their cultural identity and prevent their children/their children's children from integrating "too fast". Vietnamese immigrants are notorious for this, as are Korean and Cambodian immigrants. They don't want to assimilate into the American culture because they disapprove of it, and they don't like their children assimilating for the same reason. They aren't coming to America to become American's, they're coming to America with the intention of making a lot of money and getting their kids a better education while refusing to adopt American culture. It doesn't work that way.

[RockAndRoll]

I agree, it's not that big of a deal, and I'm sure eventually we will have road signs in English and Spanish. Everything in Canada is in English and French, and no Canadians seem to have a problem with it.

It's not entirely true that everything is in English and French here. Yes, we are a bilingual country and their are language rights so you can get government documents in either language and so on and so forth, but signs aren't all bilingual (some parts of the country are much more bilingual than others too).

[uhhyeah]

And ok, so the parents have to work a lot. I can understand that, but I still don't see any reason they can't try and pick up the language. If they're out working, they're going to be surrounded by English speaking people, it shouldn't be that hard to at least get a very basic grasp.


What I'm saying is, just try. If you put in an effort to at least understand and speak some English, that's cool. Just don't sit in your home using nothing but your native tongue, and don't hide in ESL whenever you feel like it.


No. A vast majority of them are out working in agriculture, as cooks, dishwashers, anything to get by. They may be employed by a contracting service that is owned by someone that speaks english, but they are surrounded by immigrants who speak their native tongue. Add to this the fact that they tend to live in impoverished neighborhoods with people of similar cultural and linguistic backgrounds.

What if they prefer to speak in their native tongue at home? Should they just sit there in silence because nobody can speak or understand English well enough to communicate? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

So let me ask you something. If you moved with your family to rural Mexico, what language would you speak in your home?

And once again, yes they do pick up on English out of necessity. They kinda realize this. The children just acquire it with greater fluency and at a younger age.

[MattSharpIsCool]

It's not entirely true that everything is in English and French here. Yes, we are a bilingual country and their are language rights so you can get government d0cuments in either language and so on and so forth, but signs aren't all bilingual (some parts of the country are much more bilingual than others too).

Well ok. I've only been to the Vancouver area, and I thought someone had told me everything was bilingual, but I guess not, my bad.

What if they prefer to speak in their native tongue at home? Should they just sit there in silence because nobody can speak or understand English well enough to communicate? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

So let me ask you something. If you moved with your family to rural Mexico, what language would you speak in your home?

You completely missed the point of my post. Obviously, yes, they're going to speak their native language at home. But the whole point I've been trying to make is they should try to learn English. Once one of the family members starts to get a grip on the language, why not try and teach some of it to the other members?

If I moved to rural Mexico with my family, I would try and learn Spanish. It makes sense to learn the native language of where ever you live, and it seems like an insult to do otherwise.

[uhhyeah]

You completely missed the point of my post. Obviously, yes, they're going to speak their native language at home. But the whole point I've been trying to make is they should try to learn English. Once one of the family members starts to get a grip on the language, why not try and teach some of it to the other members?

If I moved to rural Mexico with my family, I would try and learn Spanish. It makes sense to learn the native language of where ever you live, and it seems like an insult to do otherwise.

"Just don't sit at home using nothing but your native tongue..."

I don't see what I missed there. The reason they don't start speaking English once one member (child) of the family begins to learn it is because it is simply easier to speak their native tongue to communicate.

And you never answered my question. What language would you speak at home if you moved with your family to rural Mexico? That's great that you would make an effort to speak the local language, but what would you speak at home?

[sexymuffin]

I don't see why people are so keen to preserve a single language country. When people are immersed in other languages (and English would still be used) they usually pick them up really easily.

I'd love to be able to speak another language.

the problem is that it doesn't happen like that.

my mom works in an ER and they are constantly dealing with people who don't speak english and require translators which slows down the speed of healthcare and costs money.

having a menu with spanish and english isn't government mandated right?

becuase if not then there's no problem with the bussiness attempting to reach out to a wider group of consumers.

[uhhyeah]

having a menu with spanish and english isn't government mandated right?

becuase if not then there's no problem with the bussiness attempting to reach out to a wider group of consumers.

Oh man, the typos that I could bust yer bawls over. j/k :)

Depending on what side of town you're on where I live, you'll see menus in English, English/Spanish, and Spanish only. I speak both, though I definitely need to brush up on my Spanish, so it's not really a problem.

[sexymuffin]

well i do believe that there should be some attempt at making immigrants learn fundemental english phrases like "my stomach hurts"

otherwise it turns into one patient and their whole family coming into the ER becuase of an upset stomach that no one can diagnos due to lack of translators on the staff.

[Give me Beer]

Hmm, so did you guys read over my first post? I'm telling you, allowing two sizable language communities to exist within your borders is eventually going to lead to problems. Quebec is a good example of it actually, they're still asking for independence from Canada. Obviously these immigrants aren't going to drop their language 123 and it's fine to speak it at home, but when you start to allow them to use it in public life you're making way for seggregation. There are few things that can be as divisive as language. Now I'm not an American or anything, and I love Latin America a lot, but this is how I've been experiencing it my entire life in my own country.

[palepalepeach]

Where I live, there are some billboards in Spanish, and the schools and health offices, etc have things translated to Spanish and Hmong, and I don't really care.

Having two languages on nutrition facts labels is kind of annoying though.

[AA-12]

Immigrants are so taken with preserving their cultural identity that a very large chunk of them will probably never integrate properly into American society. It's because we allow accommodating factors like bilingual signs and menus, as well as ELS classes where immigrants can sit inside of an English speaking public school and have their lessons presented to them in their own language, on top of countless other factors.

At the elementary school down the road from my house, they have two separate daycares after school. They have one for English speaking kids and one for all the Mexican kids who can't speak English because their parents barely know how to speak English themselves.

I say, if you can't speak the language or don't plan on learning the language, don't move here.

I back this post 100%

[Danger Bird]

I was posting in another forum and someone started a topic about how they are offended by having bilingual signs in the US. This person's opinion was very underdeveloped, so of course they looked uninformed. So how do you feel about having signs, menus, etc, in foreign languages as well?

I think everyone should know enough English in the US or some other predominately English speaking country to get them by. This means both spoken and written. No one is going to lose their culture by learning the language of the one they are walking into. Let's face it people are allowed to be lazy, everyone caters to them. And yes I am offended by that. If I were to live in another, non-English speaking country, I would learn the language enough to not need very much assistance.
You're right, that's why Europeans started speaking Cherokee when they came over here.

[peeted]

meh, who cares, most other countrys have signs in english. Not learning the language of teh country doesnt just keeps imigrants from progressing socialy, its in there intrest to learn the language. Realy there should be more govenment responsibility to teach them the language.

[DBoons Ghost]

There are two sides to this.

Trying to Americanize everyone who comes here is good for the overall identity of this country, and can work to break down racial barriers that we indirectly put up as a result of clinging to our heritage.

It can also work to diminish those who desire to cling to their culture and heritage. It also proves Nationalism can truly be an undesirable element to building community. However, it also proves that racial barriers will always prevent that utopia in even the smallest communites.

I live in NYC. Chinatown has chinese signs. Little Brazil has signs in Spanish and Portugese. Spanish Harlem has signs in Spanish. Little Italy has signs in Italian.. Many Russian communities have Russian signs, and so on and so forth for every ethnic community. No one mingles. The Russians go to live among their own. The Spanish go to live among their own. No one mixes and everyone stays ignorant to the other. It's crappy but not for the reasons that idiot states.

[lunchforthesky]

The only place in the UK with bilingual signs is Wales, where obviosuly they have signs in Welsh. I cant say im particularly interested in preserving anyones culture, it should be remembered but as history not as a continuing tradition unless it is still relevant, which language is not.

[PerpetualBurn]

Preserving culture isn't always a good idea.

See Morris dancing for details.

[lunchforthesky]

hahahaha.

[RockAndRoll]

Having two languages on nutrition facts labels is kind of annoying though.
:lol: it's really not that big of a deal.

[ringworm]

I dont think anyone will be surprised that I do not agree with catering to people who refuse to learn a new countries language.

It's so bad where I live, Burger King has a menu in front of the register with all the Combos listed as Pictures & you turn an arrow to point at what you want to order?

Makes no sense how some people are apathetic towards a group of people that just simply need to learn the predominant language.

If these School examples are true in the previous posts, it looks like we are already too far behind to now make people learn what they should have in the first place. :/

You can still preserve youur heritage and also intergrate properly into a culture

[lfantwister]

It's so bad where I live, Burger King has a menu in front of the register with all the Combos listed as Pictures & you turn an arrow to point at what you want to order?

That's not bad politics thats good sales

You can still preserve youur heritage and also intergrate properly into a culture Especially if you chose to move to said country with the full knowledge that they speak another language.

With that said, estomago isnt too different from stomach and most people in areas that need it know a smattering of the other language. National identity is less important here; safety should be foremost

[peeted]

The only place in the UK with bilingual signs is Wales, where obviosuly they have signs in Welsh. I cant say im particularly interested in preserving anyones culture, it should be remembered but as history not as a continuing tradition unless it is still relevant, which language is not.

Actualy they have bi-lingual signs in quite a few areas wich are packed with imigrants, you probs just havnt been to them because there packed with imigrants.

[MattSharpIsCool]

"Just don't sit at home using nothing but your native tongue..."

I don't see what I missed there. The reason they don't start speaking English once one member (child) of the family begins to learn it is because it is simply easier to speak their native tongue to communicate.

And you never answered my question. What language would you speak at home if you moved with your family to rural Mexico? That's great that you would make an effort to speak the local language, but what would you speak at home?

I worded that badly, and I explained it in my second post. What better place to pick up a new language than at home with your family? If I moved to Mexico, I would probably speak English at home. But I would also use that time to practice my Spanish with my family members. And eventually, who knows, maybe English would be slowly phased out.

Either way, the "home" statement was a real minor point anyways. I'm mainly talking about society and learning the language for your benefit in society. If all of your family members understand your native language, then it's not that big of a deal. If you're in public, chances are pretty good most people won't understand your language.

[Smokey D]

In my experience, the mother tongue continues to be spoken at home unless there are guests who cannot understand it. It is also entirely unreasonable to expect a family to try and express itself within the confines of its home in a language they are less than proficient at. However, within a generation or two the original mother tongue ceases to play a role. How many Italian-Americans can actually speak Italian?

[uhhyeah]

I worded that badly, and I explained it in my second post. What better place to pick up a new language than at home with your family? If I moved to Mexico, I would probably speak English at home. But I would also use that time to practice my Spanish with my family members. And eventually, who knows, maybe English would be slowly phased out.

Either way, the "home" statement was a real minor point anyways. I'm mainly talking about society and learning the language for your benefit in society. If all of your family members understand your native language, then it's not that big of a deal. If you're in public, chances are pretty good most people won't understand your language.

I completely agree with learning the local language because of the benefits it brings. Absolutely. That being said, it would also be beneficial for more English speaking Americans to become bilingual. When both citizens and immigrants are bilingual and can actually understand each other everyone benefits. It helps to ease culture shock.

But as I and Smokey have stated, the language issue usually goes away beginning with the 2nd generation.

[Volumnius Flush]

I was posting in another forum and someone started a topic about how they are offended by having bilingual signs in the US. This person's opinion was very underdeveloped, so of course they looked uninformed. So how do you feel about having signs, menus, etc, in foreign languages as well?

I think everyone should know enough English in the US or some other predominately English speaking country to get them by. This means both spoken and written. No one is going to lose their culture by learning the language of the one they are walking into. Let's face it people are allowed to be lazy, everyone caters to them. And yes I am offended by that. If I were to live in another, non-English speaking country, I would learn the language enough to not need very much assistance.

Sorry to be off-topic, I haven't seen you post in ages. What did you do for NYE?

[Devil's Reject]

I was posting in another forum and someone started a topic about how they are offended by having bilingual signs in the US. This person's opinion was very underdeveloped, so of course they looked uninformed. So how do you feel about having signs, menus, etc, in foreign languages as well?

I think everyone should know enough English in the US or some other predominately English speaking country to get them by. This means both spoken and written. No one is going to lose their culture by learning the language of the one they are walking into. Let's face it people are allowed to be lazy, everyone caters to them. And yes I am offended by that. If I were to live in another, non-English speaking country, I would learn the language enough to not need very much assistance.

I believe if you realy want to live in the US have the decency to learn the language.You realy don't see much of an atttempt of english in foreign countries unless it involves a financial gain.It's a meer question of survival and how bad do you want it.We shouldn't just had over the american dream to any third world slob unles they prove that they are worth it.That also goes for government assistance.The famous "Day without a mexican"was a joke to be realistic.Hell there were other illegals waiting to cut throat thier own and take thier jobs the second they walk out.Ironic .......isin't it.Do we realy need to waist tax dollars into this??

[Smokey D]

Wait, why should we give the American dream to just any old American slob unless they can prove they are worth it? The immigrants who move to America are doing so in search of a better life, and are far more likely to work hard and become productive members of society than a substantial proportion of the resident population.

Also, standard format and colouring for the win.

[Devil's Reject]

I was refering to the illegals in this country.There is also a national security issue at hand.Where it won't be long till the taliban trys to sneak terrorists in the US the same way the illegals do.

[Scuba_Steve]

Wait, why should we give the American dream to just any old American slob unless they can prove they are worth it? The immigrants who move to America are doing so in search of a better life, and are far more likely to work hard and become productive members of society than a substantial proportion of the resident population.

Also, standard format and colouring for the win.

Im just going to quote him because I agree with every word he typed.

[Devil's Reject]

As far as american slobs......That is another discussion for another time my friend.

[Scuba_Steve]

As far as american slobs......That is another discussion for another time my friend.

that's dodging a question though :/

[Smokey D]

Most illegals are very hardworking. The criminal element amongst them is a minor fraction.

[pedro durruti]

Um, according to Fox news, they are all murderers and rapists.

[Devil's Reject]

It's still a threat to national security.You want in then apply for citizenship don't mess it up for all the hard working imigrants that are here legaly.

[Devil's Reject]

Um, according to Fox news, they are all murderers and rapists.

Another good point.When they do face criminal charges they tend to run back as not to pay for thier crimes.Where is the justice for the victims??

[Scuba_Steve]

Another good point.When they do face criminal charges they tend to run back as not to pay for thier crimes.Where is the justice for the victims??

lol, it's the governments fault for only giving a **** when there are votes involved. They wont chase them down because really they have nothing to gain from it, they dont care about the victim. In their eyes, the problem is solved once the criminal leaves their border.


also, they dont apply for citizenship because they would be denied, getting into a first world country isnt that easy without education you know.

[Devil's Reject]

lol, it's the governments fault for only giving a **** when there are votes involved. They wont chase them down because really they have nothing to gain from it, they dont care about the victim. In their eyes, the problem is solved once the criminal leaves their border.


also, they dont apply for citizenship because they would be denied, getting into a first world country isnt that easy without education you know.

The justice system only works if they can find them in the country they fled to.The US has no authority outside thier borders in bringing back the perps to US justice.There have been many sucess stories in illegals being extradited back to america to stand trial but not all criminal cases have closure.But we're straying from the point we started which is that in my opinion I feel that we should put more emphasis on learning the english language and less on a secondary language.

[Scuba_Steve]

The justice system only works if they can find them in the country they fled to.The US has no authority outside thier borders in bringing back the perps to US justice.There have been many sucess stories in illegals being extradited back to america to stand trial but not all criminal cases have closure.


because for the majority I doubt the justice system really cares about some simple robbery where the criminal fled to another country.

A murder possibly, but even then, unless there is significant media coverage of the issue, the government probably wont bother.

[Devil's Reject]

You're right if it's just a purse snatcher making a quick get away but we do work in conjunction with other foreign governments things like serious fellony charges.

[Smokey D]

It's still a threat to national security.You want in then apply for citizenship don't mess it up for all the hard working imigrants that are here legaly.

It may be a threat to national security, but terrorists are even less likely to play by the rules than normal illegals. It's fallicious to equate them.

Another good point.When they do face criminal charges they tend to run back as not to pay for thier crimes.Where is the justice for the victims??

If they are caught for committing a crime in the United States, they'll face prosecution by United States law. Besides, a lot of criminals, illegal or not, will flee the country after the crime has been committed.

[Devil's Reject]

It may be a threat to national security, but terrorists are even less likely to play by the rules than normal illegals. It's fallicious to equate them.

So it dosen't matter to us that terrrorists are taking note to illegals on how they get in here and aquire false identification.


If they are caught for committing a crime in the United States, they'll face prosecution by United States law. Besides, a lot of criminals, illegal or not, will flee the country after the crime has been committed.

Americans that are fleeing the country as not to face criminal charges are being sent back.I'm watching it right now as we speak on nightline about a man who murdered his wife and fled to mexico.

[Scuba_Steve]

Americans that are fleeing the country as not to face criminal charges are being sent back.I'm watching it right now as we speak on nightline about a man who murdered his wife and fled to mexico.

yes but once again, usually only for murder charges.

and even then, only because if the gov. didnt act on it the family of the victim would cause a huge stink.


and as surprising as it is, mexicans arent entering the US illegally to knock someone off and flee back, they come for a better life.

[Smokey D]

Americans that are fleeing the country as not to face criminal charges are being sent back.I'm watching it right now as we speak on nightline about a man who murdered his wife and fled to mexico.

If there's an extradition treaty in place, it is my understanding that anyone who commits a crime in the American jurisdiction would be sent back if they fled the country.

[Devil's Reject]

I never said anything about mexicans nor did I say anthing about imigrants comming here just to commit a crime.and I was talking about an american that commited murder and was brought to justice via the mexican government.

[Devil's Reject]

I'm sorry weren't we talking about manditory english language in the US???Where did we go off the path to illegals commiting crimes.

[Smokey D]

I was wondering that, but it's natural for threads to deviate a bit.

[Devil's Reject]

I understand your point and it is well taken.We all have our opinions and are entilted to speak out.I fought for your right as well as mine for freedome of speach.I thank you for your honesty and enjoyed this conversation.
Learning a secondary language expands your mind as well as your oportunities.

[CrossTheBreeze]

and as surprising as it is, mexicans arent entering the US illegally to knock someone off and flee back, they come for a better life. not everyone in Central America is Mexican.

but I agree that the majority aren't criminals. I actually know many friends of my family who are illegal.

[lfantwister]

It may be a threat to national security, but terrorists are even less likely to play by the rules than normal illegals. It's fallicious to equate them.


But we might as well stop one easy way for terrorists to get in the country. It's not like they're going to NOT cross the border illegally because it's too easy or because regular immigrants do it the same way.

[Smokey D]

True, but I don't think blocking the route is the same as hunting down and evicting already established illegals.

[Devil's Reject]

It needs to be put to a stop if we all want be sure that illegals as well as terrorists are stopped at our borders.

[Smokey D]

From virtually every study I've seen or heard, illegals are good for the country despite breaking the law.