Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead and I Don't Feel So Good Myself

[Grumpy the Cat]

Dictionary's art and the thesaurus is merit
Choruses are cracked ribs
Verses are blood on concrete

You've beat out another hundred dollar bill
You've coughed up another night on the road
Your weapon of choice sprays lead to the sound of ABABABACD
You splatter blood like a pro

You've forced a charcoal block into beauty's bust
And vomited vision onto a ****ed canvas
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out

Here's to another nameless friend
Here's to living the dream
Light a candle for your muse: drugs and being ****ed
Here's to living the dream

[DeadReligion]

Love the title. I watched&G Are Dead in class recently...

Dictionary's art and the thesaurus is merit
Choruses are cracked ribs
Verses are blood on concrete
^ The first line is a bit confusing. Maybe for line three, something like contaminated blood (more than one type) only because, verses are varied, and if you just have one stain, not a lot of variation...

You've beat out another hundred dollar bill
You've coughed up another night on the road
Your weapon of choice sprays lead to the sound of ABABABACD
You splatter blood like a pro
^ The last two lines are eh...especially abababacd, that's just odd. The last one is just boring and anticlimactic. Also, the relevance?

You've forced a charcoal block into beauty's bust
And vomited vision onto a ****ed canvas
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out
^ This is better I like this, except the repeated line.

Here's to another nameless friend
Here's to living the dream
Light a candle for your muse: drugs and being ****ed
Here's to living the dream
^ Don't be so repetitive. ****ed has already been used once in this piece. Also, I don't like the second (or fourth I suppose) line.

Overall, not bad.

[DeadReligion]

Crit my "Pessimists Are Just Realists With A Worse Reputation," please?

[TheBigMachine]

Ease up on the pronouns - the 'you's' of the piece. There's a few too many, and it really doesn't sound too good. You seem to have a basic grasp on the whole metaphor and simile idea. This is good. The piece isn't too bad. Make sure you develop on your ability to write with poetic device.

"And vomited vision onto a ****ed canvas"

This line is not good. At all. There is nothing poetic about profanities. Remember that. ( Lolerz that's a line out of a poem im [trying] to write at the moment)

[Grumpy the Cat]

Okay... at this point I have a response to the whole cliche "profanity is not poetry": Go **** yourself. Honestly. I can express myself however the **** I want. There's nothing poetic about forcing people to write in certain predesignated "acceptable" vocabularies.

I've lost all respect for you.

[Surf]

There's nothing wrong with using profanity in writing. however, what is a problem is the discretion of the writer. HOW it is used is much more important. More often than not, swearing is used as a cheap way of expressing an idea or emotion. Because of the crudeness of the words, and their blunt nature, it is often a cop out if someone uses it: it is usually much more effective, evokative and emotive to use a similie/image/metaphor.
there are of course exceptions to using profanity. Sometimes it is exactly the right thing to use, for example characterisation can benefit extremely from choice of language. However, because of the meaning and 'taboo' surrounding the words, caution must be exercised: do not be as flippant in the useage as it is much more obvious if a word is both out of place AND a swear word.
So basically, you can use swear words as much as you like. However, they are often unecessary and a lazy approach to writing.
Saying you have lost all respect for him is ridiculous. In this case he was right, the swear word is ill-fitting. What exactly is a ****ed canvas? ask yourself, would not a synonymn be more suiting? Its a poor description.

[Grumpy the Cat]

No, it wouldn't. Because then it wouldn't be the song I wanted to write. It's not "ill-fitting," I know because I know what I wanted it to mean and it means exactly what I want it to mean. You know why I chose the word "****ed," moron? Because it's exactly what you said: it's debased and inelegant and seems "ill-fitting."

The song is about music without art. It's an indictment of music that was created to achieve some end other than self-expression. Why don't you tell me a synonym for "****ed" that works better?

You can't. Because, as you pointed out, profanities have a connotative impact that speaks much more loudly than the meaning of any less taboo word. And given that the line describes the "canvas" they are creating their "art" on, "****ed" is the only word that works to show the absurdity of the situation. I could've easily used a word that conveys the same meaning, such as "debased" or "cheap" or "generic" or "meaningless" or whatever, but that's not what I wanted. I wanted the impact of the word.

The line is sarcastic in that it describes someone applying "vision to a canvas" which is often a laudatory way of describing the process of painting; only the process of applying the paint was "vomiting" and the canvas was "****ed," a word which you already pointed out has a habit of standing out. It's supposed to stand out, genius. Nothing else works.

So since you seem to be an expert on my poetry, why don't you tell me what else I could do to "improve" it. Seriously, I'm interested at this point, because when you point out specific examples that are so clearly wrong it gives me a lot more confidence in my own abilities.

[TheBigMachine]

Look, **** the hell off. You are seriously the number one biggest idiot to ever grace SL. We take the time to read your stuff and try and help you, and then you come here and criticise us for it? Gee, I can see you getting alot better pretty quickly.

If you dont want comments, dont post. Simple as that.

[DeadReligion]

He's not that bad. I was worse. Much worse, as a n00b. Then there was that guy who got REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY pissed off when someone said he didn't like his piece. ****ing noobzorz and their pissy fits.

[Grumpy the Cat]

Look, **** the hell off. You are seriously the number one biggest idiot to ever grace SL. We take the time to read your stuff and try and help you, and then you come here and criticise us for it? Gee, I can see you getting alot better pretty quickly.

If you dont want comments, dont post. Simple as that.

Who said I didn't want comments? To me it sounds like you're the one who's defensive. If your "help" is really as valuable as you claim you should be able to explain it to me when I have questions about it.

I only replied to Surf because I really want him to explain himself. I don't think he's wrong or I'm right or it even matters; but if I disagree with him about something and don't understand his reasoning at all why shouldn't I get to explain myself and ask him to clarify?

Surf can take care of himself without you, okay? I'm sure he's not losing any sleep over me "criticizing" him, and I'm sure he'll have some response whenever he reads what I wrote.

Why is it such a big deal to you if I object to someone's criticism? I wouldn't care if someone objected to mine. What's the point of this forum if nobody can actually discuss things? Why don't you just stay out of my threads if you don't like the way I respond in them?

[TheBigMachine]

In future I will, but not just yet.

You dont have to accept help.

Just dont be a cunt when you reject it.

[Grumpy the Cat]

In future I will, but not just yet.

You dont have to accept help.

Just dont be a squirrel when you reject it.

You still here?

[Surf]

No, it wouldn't. Because then it wouldn't be the song I wanted to write. It's not "ill-fitting," I know because I know what I wanted it to mean and it means exactly what I want it to mean. You know why I chose the word "****ed," moron? Because it's exactly what you said: it's debased and inelegant and seems "ill-fitting."

See that part that I've bolded? Well it's complete rubbish. If it were true, then there would be no point in criticising your work. If I were to suggest a synonym for an overused word, you would disagree, because it does not hold up to some perfect artistic vision that you seem to possess, any compromise with which would obviously be wrong because its 'not the song you wanted to write'. Would it actually be possible that the piece could be improved in a way other than one that you yourself had thought up?
You said earlier that you had lost all respect for Mitch. Well your inability to take constructive criticism and the fact that you've dragged name calling into it when I've been nothing but perfectly civil makes me wonder what your respect is worth.


The song is about music without art. It's an indictment of music that was created to achieve some end other than self-expression. Why don't you tell me a synonym for "****ed" that works better?

You can't. Because, as you pointed out, profanities have a connotative impact that speaks much more loudly than the meaning of any less taboo word. And given that the line describes the "canvas" they are creating their "art" on, "****ed" is the only word that works to show the absurdity of the situation. I could've easily used a word that conveys the same meaning, such as "debased" or "cheap" or "generic" or "meaningless" or whatever, but that's not what I wanted. I wanted the impact of the word.

Its not so much that the swear word is the problem, just that it is a terrible turn of phrase. "A ****ed canvas" is not a good description; it fails as an adjective. Regardless of whatever deeper meaning that you're trying to maintain it holds, it sounds bad to the extent that the piece would be better without it. Just because I couldn't think of what I felt to be more fitting a phrase doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that I haven't put some effort into doing someone's work for them. Actually sit down and think about other possibilities. Think of them for yourself, I'll not hold your hand the whole time.

To reiterate. I don't think its a bad line because its a swear word, its a bad line because it sounds bad. It sounds cheap and lazy. This may be indicative of the message you're trying to convey, but it doesn't work; it is just a poor reflection on you and your writing ability. Just because its slightly similar to the concept of the poem does not mean that it is justified. It still sounds bad and it still is an example of lazy writing.

The line is sarcastic in that it describes someone applying "vision to a canvas" which is often a laudatory way of describing the process of painting; only the process of applying the paint was "vomiting" and the canvas was "****ed," a word which you already pointed out has a habit of standing out. It's supposed to stand out, genius. Nothing else works.

If you need to explain your work, then perhaps your doing something wrong no?

So since you seem to be an expert on my poetry, why don't you tell me what else I could do to "improve" it. Seriously, I'm interested at this point, because when you point out specific examples that are so clearly wrong it gives me a lot more confidence in my own abilities.

You take criticism very badly. You may want to work on that. 'So clearly wrong' - wow. arrogant or what? seriously, you must hold yourself in a very high regard. Try losing the ego and you may get along a bit better.

Surf can take care of himself without you, okay? I'm sure he's not losing any sleep over me "criticizing" him, and I'm sure he'll have some response whenever he reads what I wrote.

He's agreeing. Yet another hint that you may be wrong in this little debacle.

[Grumpy the Cat]

See that part that I've bolded? Well it's complete rubbish. If it were true, then there would be no point in criticising your work. If I were to suggest a synonym for an overused word, you would disagree, because it does not hold up to some perfect artistic vision that you seem to possess, any compromise with which would obviously be wrong because its 'not the song you wanted to write'. Would it actually be possible that the piece could be improved in a way other than one that you yourself had thought up?
You said earlier that you had lost all respect for Mitch. Well your inability to take constructive criticism and the fact that you've dragged name calling into it when I've been nothing but perfectly civil makes me wonder what your respect is worth.




Its not so much that the swear word is the problem, just that it is a terrible turn of phrase. "A ****ed canvas" is not a good description; it fails as an adjective. Regardless of whatever deeper meaning that you're trying to maintain it holds, it sounds bad to the extent that the piece would be better without it. Just because I couldn't think of what I felt to be more fitting a phrase doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that I haven't put some effort into doing someone's work for them. Actually sit down and think about other possibilities. Think of them for yourself, I'll not hold your hand the whole time.

To reiterate. I don't think its a bad line because its a swear word, its a bad line because it sounds bad. It sounds cheap and lazy. This may be indicative of the message you're trying to convey, but it doesn't work; it is just a poor reflection on you and your writing ability. Just because its slightly similar to the concept of the poem does not mean that it is justified. It still sounds bad and it still is an example of lazy writing.



If you need to explain your work, then perhaps your doing something wrong no?



You take criticism very badly. You may want to work on that. 'So clearly wrong' - wow. arrogant or what? seriously, you must hold yourself in a very high regard. Try losing the ego and you may get along a bit better.



He's agreeing. Yet another hint that you may be wrong in this little debacle.
Great post, but I still say you're wrong. Maybe I can't take criticism but whatever.

The thing that just annoys me is you seem to concede that the line does have a qualitative impact but you automatically deem it bad because it "fails as an adjective." So what?

Why maintain such an arbitrary, insular view of what poetry is? Poets have used assonance, consonance, connotation, euphemism, stress patterns, and syntax to get their message across for as long as poetry has existed. You seem to think that the whole point of poetry is just to make colorful, pretty sounding descriptions. If you feel that way it's fine, but I think that's not the best way to look at poetry.

You already admitted it sounds cheap. It sounds lazy. You admitted that it is in line with what the subject of the poem is about. You admitted that it stands out like a sore thumb. That's what I wanted. I don't care if you think a line is only justified if it has clever adjectives, that's not the way I write.

And the reason I said I lost all respect for "Mitch" is because he thinks "there's nothing poetic about profanity." That's not nearly the same as what you said. You've conceded there is some use for it, you're just maintaining that it doesn't work in this specific example. While I disagree with you, that's a viewpoint I have much more respect for.

And on the subject of me being cocky and arrogant: well I am. Oh well. I can't handle criticism? Maybe not, but I still find this to be a very interesting discussion. Why do we have to agree and get along and hold hands for me to get something out of it?

And am I coming off as a dick? Of course, but it's only the internet. If I felt like you're self-esteem were seriously hurt by me being a dick I would just leave you alone.

I guess my point is, you may disagree with the way I conduct myself but it's not as if I devalue this experience at all. I may get banned because I find that a lot of internet forums don't mix well with the way I roll, but there's always other things I can do to pass the time. However, if I don't get banned I'll probably continue to post here, and I might even argue with people who criticize me. So what? Where is the harm is all I want to know?

[Grumpy the Cat]

Oh and before you write me off as "never accepting criticism" and what not, that's not true. I agreed with what you wrote in my other thread after I got you to explain it a little more thoroughly.

There's a big difference between excepting criticism in general and excepting all criticism. A lot of times I will listen but I can't force myself to agree with everything anyone says. I don't care if everyone on the whole forum thinks the line sucks, I'm not going to agree with them. That's my favorite line in the poem. I basically wrote it around that couplet.

[Surf]

The thing that just annoys me is you seem to concede that the line does have a qualitative impact but you automatically deem it bad because it "fails as an adjective." So what?

It does have an effect, but rather than shock, it just sounds bad. Not bad as in reflection of character and insightful, just plain bad as in I don't think its a very good description; it does not do ANYTHING for the poem.

Your point is that the use of the swear word is a reflection of character. That by using the swear word it shows some sort of tone and insight that you're going for.

However. It fundamentally fails as a description, purely because it doesn't sound 'right', as in the words don't fit together. So bad is the combination that it undermines whatever you're trying to say:

The line doesn't work, and as a result, the poem suffers.

At its most simple: the line does not do what you think it does. It does not characterise. It is neither strong, taboo, nor offensive; it is just a poor description.

Why maintain such an arbitrary, insular view of what poetry is? Poets have used assonance, consonance, connotation, euphemism, stress patterns, and syntax to get their message across for as long as poetry has existed. You seem to think that the whole point of poetry is just to make colorful, pretty sounding descriptions. If you feel that way it's fine, but I think that's not the best way to look at poetry

It interests me that you outline these points as effective devices for getting a message across, as the most contested line here makes use of none of them, at least at a fundamentally engaging or interesting way.

And trust me, my opinions of poetry are not really reflected in my criticism f your work. That's just ridiculous.

[class]

Wow, really? You post your piece looking for a critique and when you get one you start an argument. If you didn't post your piece for revising then don't post again. Get over it..

[Grumpy the Cat]

I'm assuming you didn't rip this word-for-word from a Fall Out Boy or Norma Jean album, but you might as well have.

Lol, you know what Fall Out Boy sounds like?

P.S.: Nice job comparing Norma Jean and Fall Out Boy. (Hint: learn anything about either of those artists)

[Grumpy the Cat]

Wow, really? You post your piece looking for a critique and when you get one you start an argument. If you didn't post your piece for revising then don't post again. Get over it..

It's just an argument. You get over it.

Do you cry whenever your parents get in a fight too?

[Nightvision]

Dictionary's art and the thesaurus is merit
Choruses are cracked ribs
Verses are blood on concrete

Not a bad start, although I'm not sure why you've switched from literary aids being art and merit in the first line to stanzas being injuries/blood in the second and third. Blood's a horribly overused image, use your head and come up with something more original. There's no excuse for using something like that when you've clearly got a reasonable vocabulary.

You've beat out another hundred dollar bill
You've coughed up another night on the road
Your weapon of choice sprays lead to the sound of ABABABACD
You splatter blood like a pro

STOP USING BLOOD! Also, that last line was so Fall Out Boy/scene band #23459723 it was painful. Other than that, this wasn't too bad.

You've forced a charcoal block into beauty's bust
And vomited vision onto a ****ed canvas
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out
Regurgitate remains into the press and churn it out

wtf is line two all about? I assume the **** hides the f-bomb, and if I'm correct, I'm inclined to ask what the hell you mean by it. In fact, this entire stanza could be cut and not be missed.

Here's to another nameless friend
Here's to living the dream
Light a candle for your muse: drugs and being ****ed
Here's to living the dream

'being ****ed' is unoriginal and trite. I don't think you're swearing because it looks big and clever, so it makes me wonder why you ARE swearing. It certainly adds no artistic merit to your piece, which is a shame, because it's a point in the piece where you have opportunity to really show off - those parts in songs don't come round often, so you should be making much more of them.

Overall:
This wasn't the worst piece I've read, and there were occasional glimpses of something pretty good in there, but that horrible third stanza and the aforementioned 'being ****ed' showed a lack of maturity in your songwriting to me. There's nothing you can really do to correct that, it'll pass with time, but I would advise you to spend a bit more time writing your stuff - there's no way you couldn't have done any better than 'being ****ed' had you actually given it some proper thought.

[i am the robots]

why yes sir I do. Clearly the lyrics fall more into the cookie-cutter generic boring bullshit metalcore category, but you caught my drift.

edit: lmfao at you acting like either of those bands are worth any merit whatsoever. Please take out your gauges and listen to some music that's actually worth being inspired by.

Norma Jean's old stuff was cool, I love the lyrics on Bless The Martyr And Kiss The Child =(.