The Security and Prosperity Partnership(North American Union)

[Carrionshine]

http://stopspp.com/stopspp/

^This website is all you need to get informed on the North American Union that threatens the US as the sovereign nation it is today. Pretty interesting stuff........

[Otherside]

A Chronological History of the New World Order

scrolled down to that and exited out sorry

[Carrionshine]

Oh my mistake.I guess the North American Union is just made up conspiracy bullshit now huh? Ok then, we can all just forget about it now. Let's all go back to dwelling in ignorant futility.

[griftadan]

i find it hard to imagine an american union without the US being dominant.

in short, i don't care.

[Carrionshine]

I guess you are fine with throwing out the Constitution and adopting a Constitution modeled after the Soviet Union's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qb5RT1My1k

"We will have a new currency, the Amero. And a new constitution, modeled on the Soviet Union's constitution. Our rights will not be alienable, but they will be granted by government, but can also take them away.".

[Apollyon]

I don't know what you're worried about. Nothing like this will ever, ever ever actually happen.

[Akira]

Right, I am going to trust a website head by an article about how the US will annex Canada by next year.

[lunchforthesky]

You dont really believe any of that do you?

[Africa]

Gimmick.

[lunchforthesky]

Probabaly but he has a lot of posts for a gimmick.

[Africa]

Gimmicks are like idiots except gimmicks are usually for pretend so for carrion that's bad :/

[griftadan]

I guess you are fine with throwing out the Constitution and adopting a Constitution modeled after the Soviet Union's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qb5RT1My1k

"We will have a new currency, the Amero. And a new constitution, modeled on the Soviet Union's constitution. Our rights will not be alienable, but they will be granted by government, but can also take them away.".

lol i don't think that guy won his election

[DBoons Ghost]

Misinformation as fact. Yay intarweb. Everything we read is true, and 1984 is NOT a work of fiction. It's all real. Orwell was a clairvoyant.

[Hababi]

Right, I am going to trust a website head by an article about how the US will annex Canada by next year.

:lol:

Yeah, unfortunately, I haven't heard an objection to this that doesn't involve moonbat rhetoric...

[Akira]

:lol:

Yeah, unfortunately, I haven't heard an objection to this that doesn't involve moonbat rhetoric...

You mean an objection to the website?
Why are any liberal websites indy trash, but this stuff is cool?

[Hababi]

You mean an objection to the website?
Why are any liberal websites indy trash, but this stuff is cool?

:confused:

I mean objections to SPP...:amaze:

[Akira]

:confused:

I mean objections to SPP...:amaze:

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure.
Sorry.

[Carrionshine]

Ignorance is bliss I suppose. You know, this isnt the only site on the web that adresses the NAU, you can go ahead and type it into google and see what comes up. To all of you calling bullshit on this, present to me some form of evidence that shows that this will not happen. Go ahead. I obviously must be missing something here because you're responses are all very brief and arent being backed up by anything. So please, I ask of you to enlighten me.

Gimmick.

What gimmick? I've posted 3 threads regarding this kind of stuff and all of a sudden it's a ****in gimmick now? The vast majority of my posting has been in R/M, and I have a ****in Death avatar. Somehow I fit the gimmick of some conspiracy nut? Gimme a break!

Misinformation as fact. Yay intarweb. Everything we read is true, and 1984 is NOT a work of fiction. It's all real. Orwell was a clairvoyant.

The North American Union has been mentioned in the mainstream media a few times. CNN mentioned it a few months ago and hasnt had a story on it since, nor has any other station for that matter.

Are you implying that TV is a much better news source than the internet? If so, what exactly makes it a more reliable source than the internet? Hell, CNN and Fox dont say **** about it, it must be completely false huh?

[HaVIC5]

To all of you calling bullshit on this, present to me some form of evidence that shows that this will not happen.

Burden of proof lies on you, buddy. The fact of the matter is, this is a conspiracy theory, and a pretty outlandish one at that. Impress us with mainstream coverage rather than a website with dubious information.

[Carrionshine]

Lou Dobbs Tonight has mentioned it at least 4 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6946647208237228392&q=North+American+Union

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3215877022838729363&q=North+American+Union

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/cover100306.htm
I dont know for sure if that's a mainstream news site in Canada.

WorldNet Today has talked about it extensively. I'm too lazy to look up all the links. Do some of your own work.

Here's one for ya:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060331.html

Mainstream enough for you yet? Do you still believe this to be an outlandish conspiracy theory?

[Zesty Mordant]

mainstream or not but sorry, but this would never happen (especially not right now)

the opposition to this among Americans, Canadians, and Mexiancs would be phenomenal. tinfoil hattery aside, democracies are never usually successful in achieving bold-faced grandiose schemes such as this.

Second, strategists in Washington (and Ottawa) know better. I think that they are more likely to believe amount of work involved to make a North American Union is immense and for the most part, unneccessary. Economic integration for the most part is already achieved and the US already has Canadian intelligence merged into their own homeland security developments such as NORAD.

Washington knows that it has its handsful as it is in securing their own geostrategic space as it is with this "war". Tripling it would not help and would make no sense

[Carrionshine]

But how can we oppose it if the vast majority of Americans dont even know it exists? In some cases, they laugh when people bring it up and call it outlandish. People have been saying this about National ID cards for years and now that people are finally starting to hear about it, it's already a law and we have little chance of stopping it.

[Danish]

http://stopspp.com/stopspp/

^This website is all you need to get informed on the North American Union that threatens the US as the sovereign nation it is today. Pretty interesting stuff........

You think the SPP threatens US sovereignty? Yea right. The US is the most powerful country in history. The SPP would compromise Canadian and Mexican sovereignty even more than NAFTA has.

Also, that site you linked to is terrible.

[Zesty Mordant]

But how can we oppose it if the vast majority of Americans dont even know it exists?

i'm sorry but this is classic tinfoil hat logic. This is also contradicts your statement about such news being in the mainstream. If Watergate has taught anything, its that "secret" gov't operations that are revealed will explode over the media, but only if they are true

In some cases, they laugh when people bring it up and call it outlandish. People have been saying this about National ID cards for years and now that people are finally starting to hear about it, it's already a law and we have little chance of stopping it.

they already exist: driver liscence, social security cards, health cards, etc.

[Carrionshine]

i'm sorry but this is classic tinfoil hat logic. This is also contradicts your statement about such news being in the mainstream. If Watergate has taught anything, its that "secret" gov't operations that are revealed will explode over the media, but only if they are true

How am I contradicting myself? I said CNN covered it once and provided the links to 4 instances of them covering it. Dont ask me how it is that no one else picked it up or why it didnt interrupt football games for breaking news, I cant answer that. If Watergate taught us anything, it is that "secret" gov't operations that are revealed will explode over the media 30 years after it even has any significance. Sorry but Watergate is a terrible example you provided. Try again. Nice tinfoil comment too, how about dropping the name calling and refuting my claims in a civil manner. kthxby<3

The fact of the matter is that the leaders of all 3 countries have had meetings on this and have drafted plans for it without the consent of the American people or Congress involvement. I'm not sure how well informed Canadian and Mexican citizens are about this, but the vast majority of Americans have no clue about it. How the hell can we oppose it if we dont even know it is being implemented? This seems to be a huge thing for us, yet Bush and Co. continue to keep it a secret and the media shuts up about it too? OH OK, MAYBE Lou Dobbs is full of poop and there really is no North American Union! You know what, this ignorance stuff is fun! I see why you guys practice it so much now.



they already exist: driver liscence, social security cards, health cards, etc.

Well thank you for missunderstanding me. I'm talking about The National ID card coming in 2008. You know, the one you cant even drive without? The one with RFID technology on it?

Yeah, those ID examples you provided are wonderful and work great, but somehow our government sees it nesessary to give us another card that can closely monitor us much better than those cards can. It was signed into law in 2005, yet ALL the people I know personally dont know a thing about it and think I'm lying. Now people slowly are starting to find out and sadly it's way too late for that because we cant do anything to stop it. Google is your friend my friend.

[Carrionshine]

You think the SPP threatens US sovereignty? Yea right. The US is the most powerful country in history. The SPP would compromise Canadian and Mexican sovereignty even more than NAFTA has.

Also, that site you linked to is terrible.

We wont be #1 for very long, it is believed that our yellow friends in China will pass us up by 2020. Free trade has been bringing our awesome economy to the level of everyone elses. We may be the **** now, but in the near future we wont be.

As I said before, this is not the only site that has information on SPP. Jesus ****in Christ just type it in to google and in 3 seconds you have what you need! You may find that there are various sites claiming the exact same thing that terrible site is claiming.

If the site is so terrible and full of lies, then simply use your all knowing ablilities and prove it wrong. Put up or shut up.

[Africa]

Dude whatever liberal.

[griftadan]

he seems more like a moonbat libertarian, i'm glad i got out of that phase

[Otherside]

Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.

Myth: The SPP infringes on the sovereignty of the United States.

Fact: The SPP respects and leaves the unique cultural and legal framework of each of the three countries intact. Nothing in the SPP undermines the U.S. Constitution. In no way does the SPP infringe upon the sovereignty of the United States.


ok go away now please

[Hababi]

You think the SPP threatens US sovereignty? Yea right. The US is the most powerful country in history. The SPP would compromise Canadian and Mexican sovereignty even more than NAFTA has.

Also, that site you linked to is terrible.

The sun still sets on the American empire ;)

I don't even know if I'd say that the US is the most powerful country today. I hope it is.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

of course it still is zero

[TojesDolan]

Oh my, another kick in the balls for our economy.

[Zesty Mordant]

How am I contradicting myself? I said CNN covered it once and provided the links to 4 instances of them covering it.

1) If it is really a major news item with obvious credibility then its very likely that all other major media outlets would pick up on it as well.
2) Keep in mind, that media outlets also have a strong tendency to pick up on fringe stories and misinform the public on something that is not actually true (re: Jew badges in Iran)

Dont ask me how it is that no one else picked it up or why it didnt interrupt football games for breaking news, I cant answer that. If Watergate taught us anything, it is that "secret" gov't operations that are revealed will explode over the media 30 years after it even has any significance. Sorry but Watergate is a terrible example you provided. Try again.

why is it a bad example?

Nice tinfoil comment too, how about dropping the name calling

well I said this:

the opposition to this among Americans, Canadians, and Mexiancs would be phenomenal. tinfoil hattery aside, democracies are never usually successful in achieving bold-faced grandiose schemes such as this.

in this case, I am referring to the nature of the argument in general and not you personally. As well, the word "aside" infers that the "tinfoil hat" factor is something that may develop out of this, but is not really the big issue that I'm going to focus my argument on.

and refuting my claims in a civil manner.

I am. However you seem to be dwelling on two words that if anything suggests how defensive and irrational you are (judging by your tone) and this which hurts your argument even more.

kthxby<3

um, you've raised an issue that no one has seemed to wholly agree with you on. I think you're trying to win support here and not reject those who disagree with you. Once again, this just makes you seem more like a conspiracy nut.

The fact of the matter is that the leaders of all 3 countries have had meetings on this and have drafted plans for it without the consent of the American people or Congress involvement. I'm not sure how well informed Canadian and Mexican citizens are about this, but the vast majority of Americans have no clue about it. How the hell can we oppose it if we dont even know it is being implemented?

Yes, gov'ts of all three countries have made decisions behind closed doors, it is likely that they continue to do so. But you have to ask how do the people that proclaim this actually know this. Are they there at the meetings hiding under the conference desk? Do they somehow have documents that no one else has?

This seems to be a huge thing for us, yet Bush and Co. continue to keep it a secret and the media shuts up about it too? OH OK, MAYBE Lou Dobbs is full of poop and there really is no North American Union! You know what, this ignorance stuff is fun! I see why you guys practice it so much now.

In honesty if you wanna talk about ignorance, you should consider the possible ignorant tone of the website. Like the fact that a proposed NAU would go against not only the US's long-habit of engaging in short-term relations with other nations on issues of national/global security but also, that it sort directly conflicts with the notions of willing unilateralism and domestic unity outline by the current Bush Doctrine.

As well, when was the last time that a major industrialized western democracy consumed other like-minded countries? In fact, if you want to focus on the whole world in general since the end of the Cold War, the trend has actually been greater fragmentation of state boundaries (which has largely occurred in the 3rd World). The breaking of sovereign borders has primarily been an economic incentive in the West and not a security one. Among the rest of the world violent interstate conflict is an increasing issue and I seriously doubt that Washington has been ignoring this (despite the shoddy efforts of the War on Terror).

Well thank you for missunderstanding me. I'm talking about The National ID card coming in 2008. You know, the one you cant even drive without? The one with RFID technology on it? Yeah, those ID examples you provided are wonderful and work great, but somehow our government sees it nesessary to give us another card that can closely monitor us much better than those cards can. It was signed into law in 2005, yet ALL the people I know personally dont know a thing about it and think I'm lying.

As far as I've understood it, that ID card has more to do with establishing a framework for a gun registry than simply this far-fetched practice of a democracy suddenly branding bar codes on their citizens' heads. Yes a lot of secrets have been kept away from the public, but it is not the Orwellian nightmare that people are making it out to be.

If this is coming and so is the North American Union, then how come us (Canadians) haven't gotten one yet, (or even discussed it extensively as is the current situation in the US).

Something doesn't add up here.

Now people slowly are starting to find out and sadly it's way too late for that because we cant do anything to stop it. Google is your friend my friend.

And you don't think the same can apply to you? Google is indeed useful, a cursory search reveal a lot about the founders of SSPP:

http://www.splcenter.org/center/splcreport/article.jsp?aid=150

An FBI official denied that the agency was screening Gilchrist's or any other private group's members. Some 300 volunteers showed up — a thousand fewer than predicted. At least four-fifths of volunteers did carry weapons, and almost none were checked for permits. Racist talk abounded, and some neo-Nazis and other racists did join in Gilchrist's project.

On April 2, the Minuteman Project held a protest across the street from the U.S. Border Patrol headquarters in Naco, Ariz. Prominent among the demonstrators were two men who confided that they were members of the Phoenix chapter of the National Alliance — until recently, the largest neo-Nazi group in America. One of the two held a sign with arrows depicting invading armies of people from Mexico — a sign identical to National Alliance billboards and pamphlets, except without the Alliance logo.

the other guy was not only largely behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth scam, but he apparently has a history of possibly plagarizing the work of other people and making generally dumb statements:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010


On Catholics and the Pope:

CORSI: So this is what the last days of the Catholic Church are going to look like. Buggering boys undermines the moral base and the laywers rip the gold off the Vatican altars. We may get one more Pope, when this senile one dies, but that's probably about it. (12/16/2002)

On Islam and Arabs

CORSI: Islam is like a virus -- it affects the mind -- maybe even better as an analogy -- it is a cancer that destroys the body it infects... No doctor would hesitate to eliminate cancer cells from the body. (11/26/02)

CORSI: Islam is a peaceful religion as long as the women are beaten, the boys buggered, and the infidels killed. (11/22/2002)

CORSI: How's this as an analogy -- the Koran is simply the "software" for producing deviant cancer cell political behavior and violence in human beings. (02/15/2002)

CORSI: Isn't the Democratic Party the official SODOMIZER PROTECTION ASSOCIATION of AMERICA -- oh, I forgot, it was just an accident that Clintoon's first act in office was to promote "gays in the military." RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together. (11/18/2001)


On Senator John Kerry

CORSI: After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal gradparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry? (03/04/2004)

CORSI: Kerry has a long history of Communist supporters. (03/12/2004)


On former President Bill Clinton

CORSI: When is this guy going to admit he's simply an anti-American communist? Won't he and his leftist wife simply go away???? Enough already. (02/24/2002)

On the Media

CORSI: Time to FREEP Chris Matthews of MSNBC. MSNBC is beginning to stand for "More Sh*t, Nothing But Communism." (05/16/2002)

CORSI: I didn't realize Little Katie Communist of the NBC Today Show knew how to hack a website. Finally something impressive from the little wimp. [responding to news that USA Today's website had been hacked and that the hackers were mocking President George W. Bush's Christianity] (07/12/2002)

CORSI: COMMUNISM -- it's simple NBC = NOTHING BUT COMMUNISM. (04/19/2004)


obvious partisan tone aside, they both sound like real level-head guys.

[Hababi]

of course it still is zero

China can certainly contend for that spot.

[AA-12]

I don't know what you're worried about. Nothing like this will ever, ever ever actually happen.

Exactly. That's what makes me happy. This would sadden me a ton.

[Carrionshine]

1) If it is really a major news item with obvious credibility then its very likely that all other major media outlets would pick up on it as well.
2) Keep in mind, that media outlets also have a strong tendency to pick up on fringe stories and misinform the public on something that is not actually true (re: Jew badges in Iran)

Well, according to spp.gov, there hasn’t been any formal agreements or treaties that were signed. It states that the SPP is a “dialogue” launched by the heads of state to increase security and enhance prosperity for all 3 countries. What the hell is a dialogue? Can anyone elaborate that for me please?
My guess would be that it hasn’t been picked up by major news sources because of the lack of a signed agreement or treaty. It is of coarse just a guess. I still don’t see how that would negate the SPP from being a cause for concern anyway though.

I am. However you seem to be dwelling on two words that if anything suggests how defensive and irrational you are (judging by your tone) and this which hurts your argument even more.

So far you have been the only one to actually seriously respond to this thread. I was referring to most of the other posts in this thread which really didn’t consist of nothing but 1 liners or attacks on me. It’s not as if I’m growing defensive about it, I’m just trying to convince people to get beyond the whole conspiracy theorist crap and have a serious discussion. It’s just a tad bit frustrating when people say “no, your wrong” and don’t back it up with anything.

Yes, gov'ts of all three countries have made decisions behind closed doors, it is likely that they continue to do so. But you have to ask how do the people that proclaim this actually know this. Are they there at the meetings hiding under the conference desk? Do they somehow have d0cuments that no one else has?

Maybe because it was announced by the leaders themselves? http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050323-2.html spp.gov says it would not infringe on the sovereignty of the US. We have reason to believe otherwise. Here’s a column by Congressman Ron Paul on the SPP: http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst082806.htm
Let's examine just a couple of the many troubling statements on the SPP's US government website:

"We affirm our commitment to strengthen regulatory cooperation...and to have our central regulatory agencies complete a trilateral regulatory cooperation framework by 2007"

Though the US administration insists that the SPP does not undermine US sovereignty, how else can one take statements like this? How can establishing a "trilateral regulatory cooperation" not undermine our national sovereignty?

The website also states SPP's goal to "[i]mprove the health of our indigenous people through targeted bilateral and/or trilateral activities, including in health promotion, health education, disease prevention, and research." Who can read this and not see massive foreign aid transferred from the US taxpayer to foreign governments and well-connected private companies?

Also alarming are SPP pledges to "work towards the identification and adoption of best practices relating to the registration of medicinal products." That sounds like the much-criticized Codex Alimentarius, which seeks to radically limit Americans' health freedom.

Even more troubling are reports that under this new "partnership," a massive highway is being planned to stretch from Canada into Mexico, through the state of Texas. This is likely to cost the US taxpayer untold billions of dollars, will require eminent domain takings on an almost unimaginable scale, and will make the US more vulnerable to those who seek to enter our country to do us harm.

This all adds up to not only more and bigger government, but to the establishment of an unelected mega-government. As the SPP website itself admits, "The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America represents a broad and ambitious agenda." I hope my colleagues in Congress and American citizens will join me in opposing any "broad and ambitious" effort to undermine the security and sovereignty of the United States.




In honesty if you wanna talk about ignorance, you should consider the possible ignorant tone of the website. Like the fact that a proposed NAU would go against not only the US's long-habit of engaging in short-term relations with other nations on issues of national/global security but also, that it sort directly conflicts with the notions of willing unilateralism and domestic unity outline by the current Bush Doctrine.

As well, when was the last time that a major industrialized western democracy consumed other like-minded countries? In fact, if you want to focus on the whole world in general since the end of the Cold War, the trend has actually been greater fragmentation of state boundaries (which has largely occurred in the 3rd World). The breaking of sovereign borders has primarily been an economic incentive in the West and not a security one. Among the rest of the world violent interstate conflict is an increasing issue and I seriously doubt that Washington has been ignoring this (despite the shoddy efforts of the War on Terror).

And the SPP doesn’t outline an economic insentive? I remember hearing a while back that the US is possibly going bankrupt soon. Is that a possibility? According to this link it is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2006/07/14/ixcity.html
If that were true, what exactly would it mean for the dollar? You know, the note that Congress sold the right to print to The Federal Reserve so they could counterfeit it and print loads and loads of it without putting any backing to it? http://www.wealth4freedom.com/money/fedup.htm Do you think it would survive the bankruptcy?

Shoddy efforts on the War on Terror? Which ones? The efforts that are supposed to end violence? I don’t think there are any efforts towards securing the world from terrorists. Somehow invading and occupying 2 nations in the Middle East is going to bring peace and ensure that we are safe from terrorist attacks? Hey, let’s just go around ****ing all day everyday forever! Just go around ****ing every girl you see! Maybe someday that finally bring virginity all over the world!

Global domination is what The War on Terror is all about. You are insane if you believe otherwise. Nothing in the world centralizes power quite like war does, and it seems like The War on Terror will drag on for years and years and years. Maybe forever. Or atleast until the world is reduced to nuclear waste. Think of all the horrible legislations passed in the 5 years since this war was declared, and that’s only the beginning. Stop thinking of your government as your protector. They could care less about you. You are nothing but a rat on a wheel to them. Since the beginning of humanity, there has been the struggle between people and the bullies attempting to dominate them. What make’s you think the world’s most powerful country is more interested in liberating sovereign nations from tyrannical leaders than they are of controlling them? Granted, the US does have a much better record of protecting human rights than most other major western nations, but that doesn’t mean that it will maintain it. A huge part of their war on terror is fought right here at home. I think we are the true enemy they are fighting against, not some guys in caves. Would claims of Iran wanting conflict with US really seem feasible once one considers the fact that the US has them nearly completely surrounded and contained. Yet many people in the US do believe that Iran is a threat and needs to be stopped from creating nuclear weapons. What a load of ****.


As far as I've understood it, that ID card has more to do with establishing a framework for a gun registry than simply this far-fetched practice of a democracy suddenly branding bar codes on their citizens' heads. Yes a lot of secrets have been kept away from the public, but it is not the Orwellian nightmare that people are making it out to be.

If this is coming and so is the North American Union, then how come us (Canadians) haven't gotten one yet, (or even discussed it extensively as is the current situation in the US).

Something doesn't add up here.


That ID just give’s government more power over us that can be abused. Gun Registry? Since when does everyone who drives a car and opens a bank account or board a plane own a gun? Ive heared power can be addictive, and often abused. I never claimed the card was in connection with the NAU, I was just comparing them on how “under the radar” they are in the news media.

And you don't think the same can apply to you? Google is indeed useful, a cursory search reveal a lot about the founders of SSPP:
http://www.splcenter.org/center/splcreport/article.jsp?aid=150

Well holy **** I walked right into this one. Yeah, my mistake. I can’t believe I didn’t look at the Minute Man project banner and automatically assume trouble was lurking near. I learned my lesson, from now on I will be much more selective on links I post.