What are the three rivers of Muslim rage?

[Africa]

Dang I need to know these three rivers, google no help :(

[Africa]

False alarm, I've got it, for your curiosity:

Well, the rage comes from three sources, primarily. Part of it is what we do, we, America, whether it's in supporting dictatorial Arab regimes that don't deliver for their people or supporting Israel when it does the right thing and the wrong thing. That's one river of rage.

Another river of rage is how deeply humiliated these young men are. Humiliated because of things like the Arab Human Development Report, that tells them they live in 1 of 22 Arab states that collectively don't have the GDP equal to a single country in the European Union stand. That's deeply humiliating to these young people. That's what produces the poverty of dignity.

And the third river of rage is how much they detest their own governments, governments that have failed to deliver for them in a globalized world where they know how everyone else is living, governments that have left them voiceless and powerless. 25 percent of all Arab university graduates emigrated, you know, a couple of years ago. That's a damning statistic, and those are all the things that feed these rivers of rage.

...as voiced by Thomas Freedman. Discuss rivers of rage or something if you want latez.

[griftadan]

industrializing = fixes all of those.

if we stopped using oil as much, they'd have no excuse not to.

[Africa]

We can't stop using oil that's absurd!

[Sucka MC]

wean oursleves off it like heroin

[ringworm]

this was a pretty good read
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1213392

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Nobody's saying that the Muslim nations need to base their economies exclusively off of oil. The blame for their lack of diversification of income rest squarely upon their own shoulders

[Iskandar]

Nobody's saying that the Muslim nations need to base their economies exclusively off of oil. The blame for their lack of diversification of income rest squarely upon their own shoulders
Why would they bother diversifying when they've got an abundant supply of an extremely inelastic commodity which so many other nations want for export?

Of course, that arrangement can't last.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Exactly. At some point, they should have realized, "Y'know, we're all gonna be screwed once we run out of this stuff. We should work on something else too so we'll still be able to make money when that happens"

[Iskandar]

Exactly. At some point, they should have realized, "Y'know, we're all gonna be screwed once we run out of this stuff. We should work on something else too so we'll still be able to make money when that happens"
At the time, their oil seemed unlimited. Of course, no resource is and in their naivete they overlooked that.

However, this isn't too much of a problem because the diminishing oil supply will cause them to diversify before it's too late. Western nations will have to do the same, to adapt before it hits them hard.

I'm surprised we can agree on an economic matter.

[Amit]

Why would they bother diversifying when they've got an abundant supply of an extremely inelastic commodity which so many other nations want for export?

Of course, that arrangement can't last.

bahrain was the first to discover oil and the first to run out of oil

yet it has one of the highest GDPs in the region :-o

[Iskandar]

bahrain was the first to discover oil and the first to run out of oil

yet it has one of the highest GDPs in the region :-o
Good point, that. But it used oil to build itself up, as did pretty much every oil-rich Arab nation.

(GDP has its flaws, just thought I'd say.)

[Amit]

i think bahrain used oil to build itself up for a future where oil might (and will and did) run out; i do not think other oil-rich arab nations have had such foresight and rational thinking

also i agree that gdp has its flaws

but bahrain is quite successful no matter what economic yardstick you use i think

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Bahrain is also religiously tolerant and, aside from being a monarchy, should be an example for all other countries in the Middle East

[Amit]

i'll heartily agree to that

[Iskandar]

i'll heartily agree to that
I'll agree heartily with the last few posts, including of course mine. How splendid.

[Amit]

if i could i would heartily request a round of jolly drinks for all the jolly fellows gathered at these current coordinates

[semi]

google wins again.

[griftadan]

Bahrain is also religiously tolerant and, aside from being a monarchy, should be an example for all other countries in the Middle East

the problem with countries like bahrian in the middle east is that their economy, while diversified, is still entirely dependant on the regions oil reserves for success. they'll tank along with the rest of the middle east when the oil reserves run dry.

[spitfirejunky]

More like the three rivers of Arab rage.

[Iskandar]

More like the three rivers of Arab rage.
The Jordan, the Euphrates and the Shatt al-Arab?

[Krabsworth]

and the Tigris!!

[Iskandar]

and the Tigris!!
Ah, but how many wars have been fought over it?

[spitfirejunky]

The Jordan, the Euphrates and the Shatt al-Arab?

These rivers flow with rage, not water. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Sucka MC]

more liek blood

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

More like the three rivers of Arab rage.

This

[Africa]

Idk most suicide bombers die for Allah so yeah.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Idk most suicide bombers die for Allah so yeah.

So then why isn't religion one of your rivers? ;)


They might say they die for Allah, but i doubt i know their religion better then i do, and I know allah didn't tell them to blow themselves up for the sake of idle prohpet semantics.

[Africa]

Lolz either one.


I spent most of the night before last night writing eight pages about Osama, 9/11, arabs, and rivers of rage, which is why I made this thread heh.

[Surgicalgod]

i'm an angry muslim :angry:

[semi]

when moka pees he makes a river of muslim rage.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

i'm an angry muslim :angry:

Zero sees:

i'm a terrorist, come to burn your owmen and children :angry:

[Hababi]

Well we all know Surgical is a terrorist.

[semi]

what? no he is not.

[bleep_bloop]

iran probably would have industrialized by now if the cia hadn't ousted mohammed mossadegh.

[Hababi]

Iran was much better off in terms of the economy and personal freedom when the Shah was in power.

[bleep_bloop]

i highly doubt that, but, all the not-so-good laws that mossadegh may have implimended were just part of the process of iran becoming independent of the western powers, and i believe if he had not been ousted, iran would be a much more powerfull country today.

all the hardships during his time as prime minister were caused by britain and the us' stubbornnes and unwillingness to lose their power in another country.

this is just one of the reasons why i despise our government

[-1up!-]

Well we all know Surgical is a terrorist.

Great to know Serenity now has the power to represent all of PNWI posters' opinion.

[shaqadelic]

The thread title is misleading cause this is about Arabs. Sheesh, since when Muslims = Arabs?

The first rage has truth and I feel is the primary reason why there is hatred aimed at America anywhere.

But a note, Arabs are usually not against America supporting rightful actions by Israel like participating in the Oslo Accord, for example.

They only get pissed when America do not show enough condemnation of wrong acts like the Beit Hanoun November 2006 incident where 20 Palestinian, including 8 children and 7 women were killed in an Israel's shells attack. American response was your everyday canned response whereas even political parties inside Israel, Meretz and Hadash held a protest in Tel Aviv.

Another river of rage is how deeply humiliated these young men are. Humiliated because of things like the Arab Human Development Report, that tells them they live in 1 of 22 Arab states that collectively don't have the GDP equal to a single country in the European Union stand. That's deeply humiliating to these young people. That's what produces the poverty of dignity.

First of all the HDI doesn't measure GDP. It measures how developed a country is and its general quality of live where quite a number of countries in the Arab League are in the range of high development and enjoying quality of life comparable to most European countries. The rest are mostly living in middle range development which is comparable to the soon to become EU, Albania.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia has GDP (PPP) higher than Austria which mutes that other point there.

Although it is true that the EU is generally more industrialised and offer better standard of living (when you start looking at UK and developed nations), Arab countries are not the poor, decaying piece of land that it is portrayed as.

As for the third rage, that is somewhat true but I doubt they are all angry and revolutionary about it.

The challenge for Arab countries economically is to diversify. Some are doing fine, the real estate scene in the UAE is insane (have you seen the Palm Island? that is ****ing insane), the sport industry in Qatar and etc. The biggest problem in my view is that they don't have enough local technical skills, they import lotsa workers, both for heavy labour and also experts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Palm_Island_Resort.jpg

Picture of Palm Island, amazing stuff.

[Africa]

Shagadelic I'm glad you're interested in this (as I'm not THAT interested in it) but maybe you should bring your arguments up with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Thomas Friedman, those are his words.

Here's the CNN transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/20/i_ins.01.html

Thomas Friedman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Friedman

I'm sure he's been to the middle east, done far more research, and talked to many more people than you have :/

[shaqadelic]

Um I replied to your post where you omitted much of what he actually said. His actual interview was more well explained from the glimpse I took.

[Africa]

That's cool, I don't really care enough to argue with you :)

[shaqadelic]

Who's arguing? lol

[Africa]

Beats me, just when I see people throwing facts around it looks like arguing heh, idk I'm not putting much thought into this forgive me lolz.

[ibanezboy69]

'''Another river of rage is how deeply humiliated these young men are. Humiliated because of things like the Arab Human Development Report, that tells them they live in 1 of 22 Arab states that collectively don't have the GDP equal to a single country in the European Union stand. That's deeply humiliating to these young people. That's what produces the poverty of dignity.''''

to me, thats like being depressed beause you dont like the colours of your national currency..
i think theres bigger problems to worry about than peoples pride.

[The End]

Iran was much better off in terms of the economy and personal freedom when the Shah was in power.

uhh no

and the shah was a puppet failure