Five nurses and one Palestinian doctor sentenced to death in Libya AIDS case

[Hababi]

Yeah, this is really absurd...


TRIPOLI (AFP) - Six foreign medics face execution by firing squad or hanging after being convicted by a Libyan court of deliberately infecting hundreds of children with the AIDS virus.

The death sentence against the five Bulgarian nurses and Palestinian doctor detained for the past seven years was greeted with shock and outrage in the international community but with cheers by relatives of the victims.

The defendants -- from behind bars in the dock -- burst into tears on hearing the verdict while the families of sick or dead victims celebrated, singing and dancing outside the heavily protected Tripoli court on Tuesday.

Defence lawyer Othman Bizanti told journalists an appeal would be filed before Libya's supreme court within the legal time-limit of 60 days, in the last recourse open to the medics.

The accused were charged with infecting 426 children with
HIV while they worked at Al-Fateh hospital in the Mediterranean city of Benghazi. More than 50 have since died.

All six had pleaded not guilty.

Bulgaria said it categorically rejected the "absurd" death sentences and called on Libyan authorities to intervene.

"The whole court case was compromised and covers up the real cause that sparked the AIDS epidemics in Benghazi," said a joint statement by Bulgarian President Georgy Parvanov and Prime Minister Sergey Stanishev.

The
European Union presidency condemned the sentence and appealed for clemency, while EU Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini said he was "shocked" and warned the ruling could damage ties between Tripoli and the 25-nation bloc.

The White House said the United States was "disappointed in the verdict".

The medics, first detained in 1999, had already been sentenced in May 2004 to face a firing squad before the supreme court ordered a retrial following a December 2005 appeal.

And Libya's Justice Minister Ali al-Hasnawi suggested it may not be the end of the case.

"Libyan justice offers the accused the possibility of a complete revision of the case. The supreme court can modify, reduce or annul the verdict," he told a press conference.

Christiana Malinova Valcheva, Valia Georgieva Cherveniashka, Nasia Stoitcheva Nenova, Valentina Manolova Siropulo and Snezhana Ivanova Dimitrova, were convicted along with the doctor, Ashraf Ahmad Juma.

"I am happy with the verdict, which shows the impartiality of the Libyan justice system," Abdullah Moghrabi, lawyer for the families, told AFP.

The court also ordered the Libyan state to pay the families between 250,000 and 900,000 dollars for each victim.

Relatives carried portraits of dead or sick children outside the courthouse as security forces fired into the air to keep the crowd at bay. "Death to the children killers!" read one banner.

Eight-year-old Nuri al-Orfi on Tuesday became the latest victim to die of the disease, according to a family member, raising the overall death toll to 53.

Families of the dead children had demanded 15 million dollars in compensation for each lost youngster -- a claim rejected by the Bulgarian government.

In Bulgaria, the nurses' families said they were losing hope and pleaded for political intervention.

"The Libyans are the killers. What right do they have to hold these innocents for eight years now and even demand blood-money?" said Zorka Anachkova, the mother of Kristiana Valcheva.

"Now it is the politicians and mainly the Libyans who have to find a way out of this," Anachkova, a retired seamstress, told AFP.

"When I see such a cruel injustice done: innocent people sentenced to death, the verdicts confirmed... I am starting to doubt whether this will ever end," said Polina Dimitrova, whose 54-year-old mother Snezhana suffers from diabetes.

The case has strained relations between Tripoli and the West as the North African state works its way back into the international fold after renouncing in 2003 its efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction.

Defence lawyers argued that the children had been infected with HIV -- the virus that brings on Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome -- before the nurses began working at the hospital.

In November, British medical journal The Lancet -- in an editorial entitled "Free the Benghazi Six" -- blasted the retrial as a miscarriage of justice with "no legal foundation".

It cited independent scientific evidence that the infections were caused by bad hygiene at the Benghazi hospital, and reports from human rights watchdogs that confessions had been extracted under torture.

Amnesty International said: "Only a fair trial can bring out the truth and do justice to the children who have been infected with HIV and their parents."


..They're about to kill the one good Palestinian ;) :p

But no, seriously, this verdict is outrageous. Your thoughts?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I don't believe they did it.

[lunchforthesky]

The article didnt say very much about what actually happened in the case. What do you expect from a country which stones women to death for being raped.

[White Riot!]

Yeah, this is really absurd...



..They're about to kill the one good Palestinian ;) :p

But no, seriously, this verdict is outrageous. Your thoughts?

I think you are a rascist pig , with little humour , intelligence or wit.

[Hababi]

I think you are a rascist pig

Hey I'm defending the Palestinian!!! :p

[White Riot!]

Hey I'm defending the Palestinian!!! :p

Your little retarded joke/inference was a parrallel to the popular "The only good arab is a dead arab" mentality of fundamentalist Israeli's

[Hababi]

Your little retarded joke/inference was a parrallel to the popular "The only good arab is a dead arab" mentality of fundamentalist Israeli's

If that was the case then I'd be cheering the death sentence, you nimrod.

And no, that's not the mentality of "fundamentalist Israeli's", even though I know you love to spread anti-Jewish conspiracies ("Jews are to blame for the Holocaust!")

[White Riot!]

If that was the case then I'd be cheering the death sentence, you nimrod.

And no, that's not the mentality of "fundamentalist Israeli's", even though I know you love to spread anti-Jewish conspiracies ("Jews are to blame for the Holocaust!")

learn how to quote and to comprehend......I never said "jews are to blame for the holocaust". I said there must be some original reason why people hate jews.

Misquoting is one thing , but making stuff up is completely absurd and childish.

Your joke was , that the doctor was a good palestinian because he infected children with AIDS. Saying basically he was good because he killed arabs. it wasnt funny

once again , you dont understand the concept of serious discussion

[White Riot!]

to further illustrate the point that serenity is a complete moron here is the link to what I actually said

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13818315&postcount=109

[Hababi]

learn how to quote and to comprehend......I never said "jews are to blame for the holocaust". I said there must be some original reason why people hate jews.

Same thing. "Jews r evil."


Your joke was , that the doctor was a good palestinian because he infected children with AIDS.


Speaking of comprehension, you apparently did not comprehend my joke. No, what's outrageous is that the Palestinian doctor is innocent, and about the only good Palestinian (being a humanitarian aid (not AIDS) worker) in the news as of late.

[White Riot!]

lol


how about Jewish involvement denial............... I mean why do so many people hate jews , there must be some reason>?

cough cough cough hint hint hint cough cough cough

this is not good guys versus bad guys stuff.....

even in the last line I said "this is not good guys versus bad guys stuff" so that conclusively proves my post was not "jews r evil"

Speaking of comprehension, you apparently did not comprehend my joke. No, what's outrageous is that the Palestinian doctor is innocent, and about the only good Palestinian (being a humanitarian aid (not AIDS) worker) in the news as of late.

In this case its a matter of reading between the lines. Whatever your supposed intentions were , it was downright insultive and definantely can be taken as rascist comment

[Africa]

I don't get it, did they really infect those kids or not.

[Hababi]

even in the last line I said "this is not good guys versus bad guys stuff" so that conclusively proves my post was not "jews r evil"


Haha yeah uh huh so you justify hatred of Jews, then you try a cop out escape.


In this case its a matter of reading between the lines. Whatever your supposed intentions were , it was downright insultive and definantely can be taken as rascist comment


Insulting, not insultive, you nob, and no it wasn't. Except maybe to you and you don't matter.


I don't get it, did they really infect those kids or not.


Every reliable evaluation has said no. They're being railroaded :(

[Africa]

Wait so what's going to happen?

[White Riot!]

Haha yeah uh huh so you justify hatred of Jews, then you try a cop out escape.


The post was simply saying there must be reasons why people hate jews originally before the anti semtic propaganda. In other words jews do things/have done things in the past that make people dislike them.


Insulting, not insultive, you nob, and no it wasn't. Except maybe to you and you don't matter.

Semantics....the arguement method of spineless worms such as yourself.

[Hababi]

Wait so what's going to happen?

Unless there's intervention by some force in/out of Libya, they'll be executed :\

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Wait so what's going to happen?

They're going to be executed unless something changes

It's Libya. What do you expect?

[Africa]

Tsk Tsk, wish I could do something, oh well *whistles*

[Light Fantastic]

The US should mount an operation to save them.

[Africa]

Operation AID.

[Akira]

I don't believe they did it.

You and the rest of the world.

White Riot: GTFO my internets.

[Apollyon]

to further illustrate the point that serenity is a complete moron here is the link to what I actually said

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13818315&postcount=109

Jewish involvement is a ridiculous conspiracy theory with no backing purpose other than to validate the actions of the Third Reich and subsidiary organizations.

The reason Jews were so despised at the time of Hitler's rise to power was due to the fact that as a combination of WWI reparations and the worldwide spread of the Great Depression, Germany was taking a heavy economic blow. However, while the Germans and Austrians were suffering, the Jewish population had managed to retain deeper pockets through wiser investing and business practices, resulting in them holding a higher position of economic power.

Jealousy killed millions of people. End of story.

As for this thread topic, I don't really know anything about this and that article doesn't give much information. :\

[lunchforthesky]

Jewish involvement is a ridiculous conspiracy theory with no backing purpose other than to validate the actions of the Third Reich and subsidiary organizations.

The reason Jews were so despised at the time of Hitler's rise to power was due to the fact that as a combination of WWI reparations and the worldwide spread of the Great Depression, Germany was taking a heavy economic blow. However, while the Germans and Austrians were suffering, the Jewish population had managed to retain deeper pockets through wiser investing and business practices, resulting in them holding a higher position of economic power.

Anti-Semitism was so ingrained in european society, it was far more deep rooted than that. In fact hatred of Jews in somewhat based upon Christian beliefs as Jews have rejected Christ and indeed killed him. Check out Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen if you aren't already familiar with it.

[Apollyon]

Anti-Semitism was so ingrained in european society, it was far more deep rooted than that. In fact hatred of Jews in somewhat based upon Christian beliefs as Jews have rejected Christ and indeed killed him. Check out Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen if you aren't already familiar with it.

That's also true, but the driving motivational factor, at least at the start of the conflict, was the economy. A lot of German's believed that Jewish bankers were responsible for the Treaty of Versailles because they had stopped funding WWI.

Also on a personal side of things, Hitler blamed the Jews for his own failures to break through into the fields of fine arts and/or architecture when he was rejected from the Vienna School of Fine Arts by a panel of seven professors, who were majority Jewish.

Plus yeah like you said, Anti-Semitism has a long history.

[Iskandar]

Anti-Semitism was so ingrained in european society, it was far more deep rooted than that. In fact hatred of Jews in somewhat based upon Christian beliefs as Jews have rejected Christ and indeed killed him. Check out Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen if you aren't already familiar with it.
Well yeah, but their general economic success at the time was a great tool for making them into scapegoats.

[White Riot!]

Jewish involvement is a ridiculous conspiracy theory with no backing purpose other than to validate the actions of the Third Reich and subsidiary organizations.

The reason Jews were so despised at the time of Hitler's rise to power was due to the fact that as a combination of WWI reparations and the worldwide spread of the Great Depression, Germany was taking a heavy economic blow. However, while the Germans and Austrians were suffering, the Jewish population had managed to retain deeper pockets through wiser investing and business practices, resulting in them holding a higher position of economic power.

Jealousy killed millions of people. End of story.

As for this thread topic, I don't really know anything about this and that article doesn't give much information. :\

I was more-so talking about current day

[Give me Beer]

Jewish involvement is a ridiculous conspiracy theory with no backing purpose other than to validate the actions of the Third Reich and subsidiary organizations.

The reason Jews were so despised at the time of Hitler's rise to power was due to the fact that as a combination of WWI reparations and the worldwide spread of the Great Depression, Germany was taking a heavy economic blow. However, while the Germans and Austrians were suffering, the Jewish population had managed to retain deeper pockets through wiser investing and business practices, resulting in them holding a higher position of economic power.

Jealousy killed millions of people. End of story.

As for this thread topic, I don't really know anything about this and that article doesn't give much information. :\

That would be a good theory, if it wasn't for the fact that they were disliked throughout Europe. France had higher livels of anti-semitism than Germany did. If you ask me, the real reason is that they made it easy to hate them by being a minority that was standing apart and keeping to themselves so much. People hate what they don't understand. Jews must have seemed pretty damn mysterious ... think about it.

[Akira]

No more talk about the the "evil j00s".
Let's get back on the topic of why Libya is a sad excuse for a country.

[lunchforthesky]

Economnic conditions and Nazi propoganda brought to the forefront already deep rooted anti-semitism in Germany and the rest of Europe. The Nazi caused the holocaust but not the hatred of Jews in the first place.

[VomitStainedCretin]

Here comes Operation Libyan Aid Workers' Liberation! :lol:

Hopefully it will be more successful than Operation Iraqi Liberation.

[Electronic Wolf]

..They're about to kill the one good Palestinian ;) :p

That's a screwed thing to say.

[Apollyon]

That would be a good theory, if it wasn't for the fact that they were disliked throughout Europe. France had higher livels of anti-semitism than Germany did. If you ask me, the real reason is that they made it easy to hate them by being a minority that was standing apart and keeping to themselves so much. People hate what they don't understand. Jews must have seemed pretty damn mysterious ... think about it.

They were disliked throughout Europe because a lot of Communist/Socialist political figureheads at the time happened to be Jewish. Hence Hitler's talk of Bolshevik Jewry. Yes, the anti-semitism was already there but the anti-semitism roots from the political authority and financial stability the Jews have always managed to maintain.

Also, from 1934 to 1944 France was a hot spot for polarized politics. France was split up into zones of occupation, with the Vichy regime controlling the southern portion of the country and the Nazis controlling the rest. The anti-semitism you're trying to cite was the result of the occupied French trying to show their support for Hitler (demonstrations were made against Jews by French civilians and police alike) and their dislike for the political left.

It has nothing to do with Jews being "mysterious".

[Iskandar]

No more talk about the the "evil j00s".
Let's get back on the topic of why Libya is a sad excuse for a country.
It lacks democratic government, for starters.

[Amit]

and that makes all the more reason for it to execute these foreign medics

it garners and raises support for the libyan government from the libyans even in the face of their lack of democracy and satisfactory governance :-(

[The Stig]

It seems rediculous that they're doing this. How do they think they are ever going to be legitimized in the eyes of any Western powers if they keep up with this kind of garbage. I'll hope for the best in this case, though I feel it's pretty futile.

[Hababi]

Yeah that is true.

EDIT: to Amit

re Paul:

I don't think they care one bit about international standing. They want to preserve their power, domestically. And this helps do so.

[Iskandar]

it garners and raises support for the libyan government from the libyans even in the face of their lack of democracy and satisfactory governance :-(
I think the regime is generally supported, which sucks because, well, Libya's government sucks.

[The Stig]

To Zero:

The only thing is that if this kind of stuff keeps happening, their methods of self-preservation will lead to their demise, as it becomes increasingly likely there will be outside action like sanctions or worse taken. Dunno, though...

[Iskandar]

The only thing is that if this kind of stuff keeps happening, their methods of self-preservation will lead to their demise, as it becomes increasingly likely there will be outside action like sanctions or worse taken. Dunno, though...
Sanctions are extremely ineffective against corrupt regimes. They hurt the citizens of the regime more than anyone, while the powerful elite are little affected. The best strategy is diplomatic talks.

[The Stig]

True there, but if anything, it can entice a revolt from the masses. I just see it as a poor way to try to preserve the state of power. It may bring a temporary boost of support within the country, but in the long run, I see it hurting them more.

[Amit]

hard to revolt when you don't have enough to eat due to sanctions :-(

[Iskandar]

True there, but if anything, it can entice a revolt from the masses.
Only if they're extreme, by which times people will be dying or whatever.:(

[Hababi]

hard to revolt when you don't have enough to eat due to sanctions :-(

That makes no difference. Well-fed people under a strong dictatorship are less likely to revolt than poorly fed people under a weaker dictatorship.

[Iskandar]

That makes no difference. Well-fed people under a strong dictatorship are less likely to revolt than poorly fed people under a weaker dictatorship.
I dunno. It's a lot easier to lynch Mussolini than overthrow the Party.

[Hababi]

I dunno. It's a lot easier to lynch Mussolini than overthrow the Party.

Moussolini was a weak leader, who relied on Hitler to remain in power as long as he did.

[Apollyon]

hard to revolt when you don't have enough to eat due to sanctions :-(

Hunger and political sanctions should actually be a point of encouragement for a social revolution.

Moussolini was a weak leader, who relied on Hitler to remain in power as long as he did.

Exactly. Moussolini was arrogant and flamboyant and probably the easiest target in political history to take down.

[Iskandar]

Moussolini was a weak leader, who relied on Hitler to remain in power as long as he did.
Yeah, I implied that he was weak. I was just making a point that it's the strength of the dictatorship that seems to matter more than what conditions are like, important as that is too. People starved under Stalin, but nobody dared to rebel against him. Trotsky tried and was exiled, millions of lesser dissidents were killed etc. He was simply too powerful to take down.

[Apollyon]

Yeah, I implied that he was weak. I was just making a point that it's the strength of the dictatorship that seems to matter more than what conditions are like, important as that is too. People starved under Stalin, but nobody dared to rebel against him. Trotsky tried and was exiled, millions of lesser dissidents were killed etc. He was simply too powerful to take down.

Failure comes from a weak foundation in the resistance. If you don't convince enough people that you're fighting a winning battle, you're not going to have enough support to actually achieve your goals. This is where propaganda becomes key.

[Iskandar]

Failure comes from a weak foundation in the resistance. If you don't convince enough people that you're fighting a winning battle, you're not going to have enough support to actually achieve your goals. This is where propaganda becomes key.
There'll be no resistance if it's impossible to rebel in even small ways.

[Apollyon]

There'll be no resistance if it's impossible to rebel in even small ways.

What would make it impossible? It isn't impossible to organize in secret and it isn't impossible for a resistant militia to acquire arms and outside funding for their cause. It just takes motivation, organization and a good propagandist.

[Iskandar]

What would make it impossible? It isn't impossible to organize in secret and it isn't impossible for a resistant militia to acquire arms and outside funding for their cause. It just takes motivation, organization and a good propagandist.
Then why didn't that happen in Soviet Russia?

[Apollyon]

Then why didn't that happen in Soviet Russia?

Because the majority of people weren't unhappy with Communism, they were unhappy with the man in charge of their country. A revolution doesn't instigate a whole lot of change if you're not revolutionizing the system of government you're trying to combat.

[Krabsworth]

I think you are a rascist pig , with little humour , intelligence or wit.

you're the last person zero should take intelligence lessons from

[Smokey D]

They were disliked throughout Europe because a lot of Communist/Socialist political figureheads at the time happened to be Jewish. Hence Hitler's talk of Bolshevik Jewry. Yes, the anti-semitism was already there but the anti-semitism roots from the political authority and financial stability the Jews have always managed to maintain.

European anti-semitism was rooted in a) the belief that the Jews killed Jesus, b) that the Church prohibited Christians usury from charging each other interest and c) that the Jews retained a seperate culture and identity after some 2000 years of living in Christendom. In particular, by banning usury, the Church restricted banking primarily to the Jewish population in Europe, which fuelled the myth of the 'covertous Jew'. Other prohibitions, particuarly on land ownership, ensured that banking was the only major enterprise which most Jews could earn money from, making the myth much harder to dispell.

Also, from 1934 to 1944 France was a hot spot for polarized politics. France was split up into zones of occupation, with the Vichy regime controlling the southern portion of the country and the Nazis controlling the rest. The anti-semitism you're trying to cite was the result of the occupied French trying to show their support for Hitler (demonstrations were made against Jews by French civilians and police alike) and their dislike for the political left.

I think he meant France had a stronger anti-Semetic tradition than Germany
before the rise of the Nazis and Holocaust.

It has nothing to do with Jews being "mysterious".

It probably did. The Jews were an identifiable target, quite distinct from their Christian neighbours. It's a lot easier to hate someone who's different from you than John Smith next door.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

yup smokey d's right on the money again

that was bollocks apollyon

[italic zero]

his explanation completely falls down when you throw in the execution of gypsies

[Smokey D]

My explanation?

[italic zero]

no, you're always right

[White Riot!]

you're the last person zero should take intelligence lessons from

Well obviously your so smart you cant differentiate between an insult and a lesson.........
:p


see now thats a lesson boy!