Apparently we're listening to Robert Johnson too fast

[Bluesiestman]

http://www.touched.co.uk/press/rjnote.html

Basicly says the orginal recordings were sped up for various reasons. I don't know if its true or not, but I slowed down a few of his songs by 10 percent and they sounded interesting. I'm thinking about taking my RJ collection, slowing it down ten and then burning it to CD.

[Joseph India]

wow!

I thought the guy who wrote the article was full of it until I actually listened to some stuff slowed down.
I cant believe how insanely different it sounds, yet REALLY GOOD.
This sort of blows my mind.
I listened to Preachin Blues first, which is one of my favorite tunes. It actually sounded natural, though by a completely different man. I'm still skeptical about this, but I hate to say... I might be leaning towards this being true.
Also
I dont really know what I'm talking about but maybe it's just 2 semi tones sharp instead of 3. The voice seems to sound more natural like that. But this could all be because its closer to the real speed which has been right all along.

[jpj]

Pretty interesting stuff. His voice sounds a lot better slowed down.

[Joseph India]

I've been listening to a lot of slowed down stuff and I am officially convinced. I think I like him even more now.

I think any Robert Johnson fan should look into this. I am going to send 9 slowed down tracks for the next blues mailing list. I know it's hard for some people to accept something like this, but you should really just listen to the slowed-down stuff.

[AmericanWeiner]

some of his slurring sounded really fake at that speed.

I'm NOT convinced.

[superjoe]

Im not sure. I always thought that his voice sounded a bit high compared to pretty much every black bluesman of that time(except for like Skip James and Sonny Terry, but purposeful falsetto singing is different than Johnsons). And it seemed like songs like "Hellhound" always sounded rushed, especially for a song in the Beltonia style.

But on the other hand, Charely Patton often tuned his guitar to really sharp tunings, and Id always assumed that Robert tuned to A with a capo on the second fret, as in the photo booth cigarette picture. Hes using a 14 fret guitar so that would work out just right. He was a small guy and younger which is prolly his "reason'' for playing so much faster than his peers.

His voice, delivery, and ryhtem(sp?wtf) sounds much more natural and 'correct' once you get used to it slowed down. Ill be honest, I think I personally prefer the slowed down sound better, but im still not fully convinced.

[Amit]

rhythm

hmm i'm withholding judgement for now

[70834594219]

This is Spoonful, what's going on. Somebody send me a song or two slowed down, preferebly "They're Red Hot."

[Joseph India]

Maybe I decided too quickly. I just listened to Blind Willie Mctell (another high pitched voice) slowed down the same amount and it sounded really good and natural. And we know his music was not sped up.

[WereClam]

I think I'm sold. When switching between 10% slower and normal speed it becomes appearant how rhythmically odd and unnatural Terraplane Blues sounds until slowed down just that little bit. All this time I just figured he was bad at keeping a steady rhythm, since it always seemed so sporadic. Very interesting.

[superjoe]

Maybe I decided too quickly. I just listened to Blind Willie Mctell (another high pitched voice) slowed down the same amount and it sounded really good and natural. And we know his music was not sped up.

good point.

[AmericanWeiner2]

I think I'm sold. When switching between 10% slower and normal speed it becomes appearant how rhythmically odd and unnatural Terraplane Blues sounds until slowed down just that little bit. All this time I just figured he was bad at keeping a steady rhythm, since it always seemed so sporadic. Very interesting.

um slowing something down doesn't change the rhythm so what's up with that?

[Eliminator]

I like his high voice better.

[70834594219]

Wow this really is something else. Listening to "They're Red Hot" it sounds more natural, I always thought it was strange that that track was so fast.

[joshmay]

fascinating



comparing "crossroads blues" at both speeds, the "official" track sounds much more distorted...at 80% or whatever, robert johnson very much resembles the style of his peers at the time. i wish a study could be done on this.

[Spikey]

hmmm. I have at least Walking Blues of that list of songs on the link on my computer, and it says my version is Son House, and I think the voices sound differently enough that it could be a different artist, but I'm not sure if that's relevant, or maybe that makes it more relevant because I could definitely tell a difference, and now I doubt all that any or most of the blues on my computer is done at its intended speed. Interesting.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

girl listening to blues oh my lord

I can't agree with this though. Even after listening a few times it sounds too much like, a slowed down old blues recording.

[AmericanWeiner]

Thank you noonward finally someone gets the right answer

[The End of The World]

Wait what is the right answer?

[AmericanWeiner]

that slowing down robert johnson actually makes some of his [note] slurs sound extremely unnattural and HIGHLY unasthetic.

I just can't believe it. I'll find exact spots if you'd like.

I mean guys you've got to understand sure there is probably some variation in how it's supposed to sound and how it does sound but so extreme? Surely these moguls liked johnson for his original voice and meant to keep it that way, and they surely could have redone the recordings.

Why pick him from the tons of blues singers if he wasn't what they liked?

[The End of The World]

Not sure exactly what you're saying but yeah I think the guitarwork sounds somewhat unnatural at times because if you hear the strums and slides they sometimes seem slightly too slow and the sustain goes too long.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

-there is no real reason to have them increased speedwise

-the "evidence" like cutaway length just seems way too disparate with sped up vinyl to me.

-its meaningless; you could slow down all your music if you like, including this. that subject can be explored and discussed in a differrent discussion concerning the digital age.

-it sounds too much like slowed down vocal slurring

[AmericanWeiner]

-it sounds too much like slowed down vocal slurring


this is what I was saying spoon not anything about the guitar work

[The End of The World]

Oh okay.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Some of the guitar sounds a tiny bit odd but the singing sounds exceptionally good; certaintly less weird than it does speeded up ;)

I don't know if they sped it up and i don't care; it's musically interesting slowed down.

[Rams]

i wish a study could be done on this.

"Hey Robert Lockwood Jr., does Robert Johnson's recordings sound sped up to you? No. Okay thanks for the help"

end of study.

[John Paul Harrison]

This is highly fascinating.

Although truth be told, I still prefer the original sound, authentic or not.

[Spikey]

This is highly fascinating.

Although truth be told, I still prefer the original sound, authentic or not.

wait. the slowed down is supposed to be the original according to that guy, so which do you mean?

also, i guess what some people are saying is true, that it just sounds like slowed down blues song, like if you slowed down any song. also, i'm sure that the songs were done at different speeds... people still change up the speed on the same song today and in different genres, so i don't see why that couldn't be the case with this.

i have to admit though, i often wonder if the old blues that i listen to sound differently and in what ways they sound differently than when they were played live... i mean recording technology has come along in a lot of ways since then. that alone could create huge disparities.

[jpj]

"Hey Robert Lockwood Jr., does Robert Johnson's recordings sound sped up to you? No. Okay thanks for the help"

end of study.
He died last week :(

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

how convenient

[John Paul Harrison]

wait. the slowed down is supposed to be the original according to that guy, so which do you mean?

My bad- I meant the record. I prefer the way Johnson sounds on the official records, even if I knew that it was sped up for unknown reasons. Tight voice and all of that...

[Eliminator]

i saw robert lockwood jr. live

good stuff

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

-back in the day everything was that fast. everyone lived in fast motion havnt you seen the footage?

[Joseph India]

hmm
I feel stupid for thinking this was correct.
I basically listened to several slowed down tracks and thought that if they didn't sound like total shiz that they must be correct.
I understand now that that is wrong. All you have to do to understand this is listen to some other bluesmen slowed down (especially with high voices and little vibrato).
American Weiner is right, the proof is in the vocal slurs. If it is sped up, it's definitely not by 3 semitones.

[Rams]

He died last week :(

That's upsetting. He was one of my favorites. Saw him live twice and he was amazing.

[jpj]

I had the chance to see him live, but I didn't go and I'm really mad that I didn't.

[joshmay]

Why pick him from the tons of blues singers if he wasn't what they liked?



i'm not convinced totally either way, but i think the argument is that robert johnson was playing similar to other delta blues players at the time...playing it well, though. and i suppose after unsuccessful delta blues recording releases in the past, the record company manipulated the sound in an effort to make the product of the artist something that would sell, or that would be picked up once introduced to the american public. consider this, would robert johnson have been the notable figure that he is today, on such grand a scale, if these slowed down versions of the recordings had been released in the stead of what we have grown up hearing as the "official" album?

[Bluesiestman]

I'm just a sound geek, I'll listen to something and then mess with it and see what sounds I can get out of it. I've probably played most of my collection backwards at one time. BTW, robert johnson backwards is quite creepy.

[superjoe]

I think there would have been some questioning by people that knew him like Howlin Wolf if they were sped up. Im sure he listened to a Robert Johnson record, and if it was different sounding than when he played with him he certainly would have noticed.

[soldmysoul4rocknroll]

can somebody maybe post some of the RJ songs slowed down please..?

opps nvm found the samples at the bottom of the page.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

The point that people knew him is very valid. Son House, knew him very well. My guitar teacher has met his brother in law... these people would've said somehting.

[Joseph India]

Yes that's a great point.
I've seen some interviews with his son and Johnny Shines (friend of Johnson). They probably have had plenty of opportunities to say something if they thought the records sounded wrong, and I'm sure they could tell because there is such a drastic difference.

[superjoe]

and this is what i really want to know:

this guy...did he just pull the amount its sped up out of thin air? how the hell does he know exactly how much it was slowed or w/e...this thing is just bull poop.

[Bluesiestman]

it is, but still i think its cool.

[superjoe]

of course

[DocBenway]

It sounds pretty good in the slowed-down versions, except that some of the vocals sounds like he's a drunk robot.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

and this is what i really want to know:

this guy...did he just pull the amount its sped up out of thin air? how the hell does he know exactly how much it was slowed or w/e...this thing is just bull poop.
It's all based on that fact that the guitar in some photo of him did not have a cutaway I think, and the few semitones that supposedly were unreachable equated to that percentage of speed change. Or something.

[alastair_85]

Having listened to a dozen or so songs this does seem like a potentially compelling arguement. I does however, as mentioned earlier, raise the question, "why is this the first time we've heard this?" There are still plenty of people alive who new Johnson to some extent or another or have seen him play and it strikes me as odd that noone has pointed it out yet.

hmmm....not convinced, although very interesting....must investigate further.

[Ando!]

It's all based on that fact that the guitar in some photo of him did not have a cutaway I think, and the few semitones that supposedly were unreachable equated to that percentage of speed change. Or something.

but who's to say that he didn't just have his guitar tuned a few semitones high? It's not like people back then has unlimited acess to electronic tuners or tuning forks like we do today.

I didn't read the entire thread, so sorry if it's already been said.

[superjoe]

but who's to say that he didn't just have his guitar tuned a few semitones high? It's not like people back then has unlimited acess to electronic tuners or tuning forks like we do today.

I didn't read the entire thread, so sorry if it's already been said.

its certainly a possibility that he purposly tuned up to match his voice/increase volume. Thats what Charlie Patton did.

[myfingersareonfire]

And RJ was definatley a Charlie Patton disciple if ever there was one.

[PERFECTXDARK]

Wow thats weird why was it sped up?

[Ando!]

Well most of us don't think it was.

[Innocuous1]

I couldn't use my pc the other day and I needed to record something for a stupid radio contest. All I had was a cheap mic and a laptop with no good recording software, just the included sound recorder. I couldn't get it to sound right, it was thin sounding and boring. Finally I decided to playing it slow and then clicking on the increase speed by 100%. When you don't have compression or equalization even good amplification, messing with the speed is a good option for punching up the sound. I don't know if Johnson played around with that idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HXMUJSnuMk

I have met Robert Johnson, and you, sir, are no Robert Johnson.

[Ando!]

And RJ was definatley a Charlie Patton disciple if ever there was one.

actually this isn't as accurate as I thought it was at first

Johnny Shines said he sang in a "real high voice" though

[Sroji]

Some black people have pretty high voices.