[poll] ITT we discuss upright and bass guitar

[Chaos]

Okay if someone were to master upright bass, wouldn't they tear apart bass guitar? Now in my opinion it doesn't really work the other way around. how do you explain this and is there anyone who disagrees? I think that bass guitar gives you a bunch of things you need to play the instrument that you would normally need to develop to play upright bass.

Let this be a mature debate, I want to see if someone can convince me to change my point of view on this subject, I also want people to hear eachother out.

[Akira]

I don't think that mastery of the upright means an inherent mastery of the electric. While upright bass is harder, it's also just different.
Quite frankly, I think bass guitar and normal guitar are far more comparable than bass guitar and upright bass.

[Chaos]

I don't think that mastery of the upright means an inherent mastery of the electric. While upright bass is harder, it's also just different.
Quite frankly, I think bass guitar and normal guitar are far more comparable than bass guitar and upright bass.


Are you saying that bass guitar is closer to regular guitar than upright? Because that's my opinion O_o

[Akira]

Are you saying that bass guitar is closer to regular guitar than upright? Because that's my opinion O_o

Well but I mean I don't think that being good at upright means being good at electric, because the instruments are played differently.

[Chaos]

but wouldn't you say that with bass guitar, you don't need to learn how to intonate properly?, as long as your strings are in tune you can just finger your frets and the note comes out perfectly, where as you can't just place your fingers and know where the notes are on upright until you learn through ear training and experience.

[Az_Holl]

I choose the 4th option:

They are both different instruments and neither is harder nor more relevant than the other. The difficulty of the instruement depends on what you put into it.

[Chaos]

I choose the 4th option:

They are both different instruments and neither is harder nor more relevant than the other. The difficulty of the instruement depends on what you put into it.


they're both tuned the same way and have the same patterns for scale and chord shapes. If you showed a random kid how to play a scale on bass guitar and then on upright and took both instruments away and brought them back, the kid would probably be able to perform the scale on bass guitar but not on upright.

[Akira]

I choose the 4th option:

They are both different instruments and neither is harder nor more relevant than the other. The difficulty of the instruement depends on what you put into it.

I disagree. I think that on a fundamental level, the upright is harder. Now, does that mean that all upright music is harder? No, not in my mind. But if we are talking about picking an instrument up and playing something basically, I think electric is definitely easier.

[Chaos]

I should of put up that fourth option just for the sake of difference of opinions, but I Didn't think of it at the time. -_-

[Pluperfect_Arson]

but wouldn't you say that with bass guitar, you don't need to learn how to intonate properly?, as long as your strings are in tune you can just finger your frets and the note comes out perfectly, where as you can't just place your fingers and know where the notes are on upright until you learn through ear training and experience.

Okay, so you are comparing an upright to a fretted electric bass. Seeing as they make unlined fretless electric basses, where does your argument stand, now?

Also, a fretted electric bass might be in tune with itself, but you can't just tune and play. You also have to take into account that you have to have the correct intonation in order for the string to be in tune with itself.

[Chaos]

Okay, so you are comparing an upright to a fretted electric bass. Seeing as they make unlined fretless electric basses, where does your argument stand, now?



you make a good point about the difference with fretless, but I was assuming we were comparing upright to a standard bass guitar. But I bet you could agree that without frets, it makes the instrument harder thus making upright more difficult than standard fretted bass guitar.


Also, a fretted electric bass might be in tune with itself, but you can't just tune and play. You also have to take into account that you have to have the correct intonation in order for the string to be in tune with itself.

but that's like a variable, we're just assuming for the sake of this debate that the instrument is set up correctly.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

you make a good point about the difference with fretless, but I was assuming we were comparing upright to a standard bass guitar. But I bet you could agree that without frets, it makes the instrument harder thus making upright more difficult than standard fretted bass guitar.

A fretless neck is harder to play upon than a fretted one, yes, and for obvious reasons. As Akira already stated, the fundamentals of an upright are harder, but, in the end, they might as well be equal in the skill that it takes to play each instrument. An instrument is only as hard as you make it.

but that's like a variable, we're just assuming for the sake of this debate that the instrument is set up correctly.

A variable is a small part of an equation that can have a major impact on the end result.

[Chaos]

A fretless neck is harder to play upon than a fretted one, yes, and for obvious reasons. As Akira already stated, the fundamentals of an upright are harder, but, in the end, they might as well be equal in the skill that it takes to play each instrument. An instrument is only as hard as you make it.


it seems like it takes more to play upright than it does to play bass guitar though.


A variable is a small part of an equation that can have a major impact on the end result.

that's kind of unfair, If we gave a person a properly intonated fretted bass guitar and another person a improperly fretted bass guitar, and asked both of them the same piece, the person with the improperly intonated bass guitar is clearly not going to pull of the performance as well as the other person, and that person shouldn't be limited by the instrument and shouldn't have to adjust to a flaw, that's why for this debate we should assume that the bass guitar is in proper working condition.

an upright bass or fretless bass can probably have a flaw too that could throw off intonation also.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

it seems like it takes more to play upright than it does to play bass guitar though.

The techniques for both are different.


that's kind of unfair, If we gave a person a properly intonated fretted bass guitar and another person a improperly fretted bass guitar, and asked both of them the same piece, the person with the improperly intonated bass guitar is clearly not going to pull of the performance as well as the other person, and that person shouldn't be limited by the instrument and shouldn't have to adjust to a flaw, that's why for this debate we should assume that the bass guitar is in proper working condition.

an upright bass or fretless bass can probably have a flaw too that could throw off intonation also.

I am not saying that the person should have to adjust to the flaw. I am merely stating that the variable, which, in this case, would be a bass that isn't intonated correctly, can have a major impact on the equation, which, in this case, would be executing a piece correctly. It would sound out of tune.

That is why I stated that you can't just start plucking away on a bass without it being properly intonated; otherwise, it comes out sounding out of tune, and then your entire piece sounds like rubbish.

Also, a fretless bass, like a fretted bass, would need to be intonated via the saddles in order for the string to be in tune with itself.

On both a fretless bass and an upright, you would also need to place your fingers appropriately upon the fretboard in order to have the note sound correctly.

[Chaos]

That is why I stated that you can't just start plucking away on a bass without it being properly intonated; otherwise, it comes out sounding out of tune, and then your entire piece sounds like rubbish.



of course, but I'm saying if you gave someone fretted bass guitar (assuming it's in tune and set up correctly) and showed them something, in my opinion it'd be a lot easier to play where as if you showed the same person same thing on upright, they'd probably have more difficulty trying to play it.



On both a fretless bass and an upright, you would also need to place your fingers appropriately upon the fretboard in order to have the note sound correctly.

Obviously, I know I didn't say I'm learning how to play upright but I figured it was implied.

edit: lol I do a bad job implying. But yes, I am trying to learn upright, and what is your experience with upright Arson?

[Pluperfect_Arson]

of course, but I'm saying if you gave someone fretted bass guitar (assuming it's in tune and set up correctly) and showed them something, in my opinion it'd be a lot easier to play where as if you showed the same person same thing on upright, they'd probably have more difficulty trying to play it.

Alright, so what you are saying that if you showed one person a piece and had them execute it on both an electric bass and an upright, they would find it easier to execute on an electric bass? This might be so, but is the theoretical person you are talking about have any experience with music at all? Is this theoretical person already playing either electric bass or upright? Does this theoretical person have perfect pitch?

Also, you have to know the technique to play an upright because, if you play it improperly, it will screw up your hand and quick. You might as well become acquainted with any number of your new friends from the repetitive stress injuries group.

Obviously, I know I didn't say I'm learning how to play upright but I figured it was implied.

Hey, you stated that they probably have flaws, so I was just pointing them out.

edit: lol I do a bad job implying. But yes, I am trying to learn upright, and what is your experience with upright Arson?

You do a terrible job at implying. Why didn't you just start a thread asking the differences in playing upright and electric bass? All of this could have been solved instead of trying to start a poll debating their level of difficulty.

My experience with upright is rather short, but I have never been formally trained to play upright. I played it once when I was with my friend who is a drummer, and we just played some twelve bar blues while the jazz band room was empty. I played tenor saxophone and flute for the jazz band, so I didn't really have a reason to play bass, but we were just screwing around.

Either way, if you are going to learn to play upright, definitely receive lessons from someone.

[Chaos]

Alright, so what you are saying that if you showed one person a piece and had them execute it on both an electric bass and an upright, they would find it easier to execute on an electric bass? This might be so, but is the theoretical person you are talking about have any experience with music at all? Is this theoretical person already playing either electric bass or upright? Does this theoretical person have perfect pitch?

Also, you have to know the technique to play an upright because, if you play it improperly, it will screw up your hand and quick. You might as well become acquainted with any number of your new friends from the repetitive stress injuries group.




Hey, you stated that they probably have flaws, so I was just pointing them out.


as far as the teaching a person upright and bass guitar, you might as well turn it into an experiment/surveyish type thing and it would get ridiculous. but musical knowledge or not, physical aspects of upright to me seem much more strict than upright. and I don't know what you meant by repetitive stress injuries group.



Either way, if you are going to learn to play upright, definitely receive lessons from someone.

I do recieve lessons

overall I made this thread because from playing both instruments for a good amount of time, I wish I would of started on upright because it seems like I would be a much better musician, and I just think upright is just a lot harder to play than bass guitar. I wanted to know if my opinion of upright being more difficult could be solidified by being undisputable (indisputable?)

[Pluperfect_Arson]

as far as the teaching a person upright and bass guitar, you might as well turn it into an experiment/surveyish type thing and it would get ridiculous. but musical knowledge or not, physical aspects of upright to me seem much more strict than upright. and I don't know what you meant by repetitive stress injuries group.

If you turned this into a survey thread to figure out the differences between upright and electric bass, everyone would probably tell you pretty much the same thing with slight differences. They would also tell you, hands down, to find a teacher when learning upright, but you could manage to teach yourself electric bass.

Also, I was being facetious when saying "you might as well become acquainted with any number of your new friends from the repetitive stress injuries group." However, it is serious when using improper technique.

Here is the Wikipedia entry for RSIs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

I do recieve lessons

overall I made this thread because from playing both instruments for a good amount of time, I wish I would of started on upright because it seems like I would be a much better musician, and I just think upright is just a lot harder to play than bass guitar. I wanted to know if my opinion of upright being more difficult could be solidified by being undisputable (indisputable?)

Playing upright would have made you a better musician? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

It is "indisputable."

Also, your last sentence doesn't make sense, so I think you better read that over. I think you wanted "I wanted to know if my opinion of upright being more difficult could be jusitified." I don't think you meant "solidified by being indisputable" because "indisputable" also means "undeniable," so how do you solidify something by being undeniable?

[Chaos]

Well I meant, if you wanted to get really specific, we could get a group of test subjects, a lot of them, with more people come better results. and teach half of them a little diddy on upright, and the other half a little diddy on bass guitar and see what the results would be. That's what I was getting at.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

If that, out of all of this, is what you were trying to reach, you failed miserably at making it from point A to point B with little to no complications.

Also, how are you going to teach these test subjects the piece? Are you going to show them by playing it yourself, or are they going to have to read music? Are these people going to have some background in music, or are they going to absolute novices when it comes to these kinds of things? There are so many factors that come in to testing a bunch of people.

You would need them to be close to the same level in order to have the results come out correctly.

[Chaos]

If that, out of all of this, is what you were trying to reach, you failed miserably at making it from point A to point B with little to no complications.

Also, how are you going to teach these test subjects the piece? Are you going to show them by playing it yourself, or are they going to have to read music? Are these people going to have some background in music, or are they going to absolute novices when it comes to these kinds of things? There are so many factors that come in to testing a bunch of people.

You would need them to be close to the same level in order to have the results come out correctly.

close to the same level, so just get people with no musical knowledge, and then they'd have nothing to start with, nothing is a good average to go by. I bring up the experiment idea because with you it seems like I have to have a solid piece of information to prove anything, what better way to prove something than with an experiment.

The experiment idea isn't that bad if it was well thoughtout I'm sure it could work.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

close to the same level, so just get people with no musical knowledge, and then they'd have nothing to start with, nothing is a good average to go by. I bring up the experiment idea because with you it seems like I have to have a solid piece of information to prove anything, what better way to prove something than with an experiment.

The experiment idea isn't that bad if it was well thoughtout I'm sure it could work.

I was never denying the fact that a test wouldn't prove conclusive results. I was just saying that you better have it completely mapped out before diving head first into the testing. You don't want false statements being made.

However, I will agree to the fact that upright is harder to start out on than electric bass seeing as the technique is much harder, and it isn't quite as simple as just plucking away.

You are going to have to take a bunch of time, though, to teach all of these people who know nothing about music that one simple piece. :p

I think this argument is pretty much solved.

[Polyamarous]

I'm willing to bet that a proficient electric bass player (years of fretted/fretless experience) that had never touched an upright, would find the double bass harder yet still be able to play it.

And that a proficient double bass player would be able to play an electric , albiet with the same problems as above.

[da_s_man13]

I recently have just got a double bass off a friend for a while. Im self taught at electric bass and been playing for 4ish years. Id say im intermediate at electric, good, but not great.

Going from electric to double is such a culture shock. I was only going off a few things that ive been told, such as plucking with the entire side of your finger, and that your not supposed to used your ring finger (fretting hand) in certain positions.

I tried learning a relatively simple piece on the double first up. Had a fair bit of difficulty learning it. Had trouble finding the right notes as im very inexperience with fretless bass. After a while i got the hang of it tho, it wasnt perfect but i could get a tune going.

After bout 15mins of bashing away on the double, i picked up my electric and was able to play the song pretty much perfectly within a few goes pretty much.



So in my experience, being self taught on both double and electric, double is much harder. Although im sure if i had been playing double the same amount of time i have been playing electric, i would be having the same troubles learning a piece as i was getting on the double bass.



/My 10 cents worth


Oh, and with the poll, im saying that they are both entirely different instruments in their own respect and arent harder then each other. One just seems harder then the other after learning the other first.

[Thunder Fingers]

well, i have only played upright once, but to be honest, it wasnt to hard to double over, though it take some getting use to and thinking about where the position realy is, but it went fine...

[Son of Magni]

On an upright the action is higher, the scale length is longer (40 on my 3/4 size!), and after 4th position you're in thumb position. Yeah, it's harder as in more physically demanding, very hard to play fast, and thumb position is a bitch.

About the only thing that's the same is the tuning.

[Left Shoe]

if you mastered the upright, and had never touched an electric before, im pretty sure youd be pretty lost, vice versa though

[EADG]

About the only thing that's the same is the tuning.


456


I was definetely lost the first time I tried to play an upright.