Can this bass amp beat drums???

[JordanBasssolo]

what i mean by that is .... can this amp go loud enough to play along with the loudness of a drumkit

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_ampeg_ba112_50w_single_12_combo?full_sku=48177 6

its a Ampeg Ba-112 50W

so can it?

[British Kid]

probably, if EQed right and the drummer isn't a friggin' madman beating the crap out of his kit.

generally 50-70 watts is required to get over a drum kit.

[Son of Magni]

The drummers I've usually played with I like to have 200 watts bare minimum. 350 to 500 would be enough to have some headroom. But it depends on your drummer and the genre too...
- SoM

[BenJammin]

The drummers I've usually played with I like to have 200 watts bare minimum. 350 to 500 would be enough to have some headroom. But it depends on your drummer and the genre too...
- SoM

350-500? :amaze:

How loud are your drummers?

[JordanBasssolo]

The drummers I've usually played with I like to have 200 watts bare minimum. 350 to 500 would be enough to have some headroom. But it depends on your drummer and the genre too...
- SoM

ya dude drums are not that loud dude

and metal is the genre

[PaulSimonon]

I'm running appx. 160 watts (300 watt head @ 4 ohms run @ 8 ohms) into a 15" speaker which gets me by fine, not as much headroom as I'd like to have though. I wouldn't go much lower than that.

[One Groovin Clown]

I used to be able to fill in sound with a lousy 25 watt traynor amp.

I couldn't be heard, but you could tell when i stopped playing.
So my guess is yes, you could beat out the drums.

[Radiobass81]

No.

The BA-115 barely does the job. This won't.

[PaulSimonon]

ya dude drums are not that loud dude

and metal is the genre

:lol:

Aren't YOU the one who made this thread? If you know how loud the drums are, why make it? :rolleyes:


What I'm assuming SoM is saying is that he could be running it at lower wattages, but it would be pushing his head a bit more than he'd like. By running a louder amp being moderately pushed instead of maxing out a less loud amp he's going to have a cleaner signal and probably more longevity from his equipment.

[Son of Magni]

350-500? :amaze:

How loud are your drummers?

I'm talking about without PA support...

[BenJammin]

I'm talking about without PA support...

Okay, I was a touch confused. :lol: Don't mind me, I'm slightly delerious.

[thelowsoundofbass]

I'm talking about without PA support...

I don't think he was talking about giging, just jamming.

lowsound

[JordanBasssolo]

I'm talking about without PA support...


o ok

[Son of Magni]

:lol:

Aren't YOU the one who made this thread? If you know how loud the drums are, why make it? :rolleyes:


What I'm assuming SoM is saying is that he could be running it at lower wattages, but it would be pushing his head a bit more than he'd like. By running a louder amp being moderately pushed instead of maxing out a less loud amp he's going to have a cleaner signal and probably more longevity from his equipment.

Very astute. I was really just busting balls about the PA, glad everyone picked up on that :p

No really, you sound so much better and clearer with a big amp with the vol set to 2 or 3. Yeah I used to jam with a Peavey Standard, overrated at 130 watts and it got so hot you could fry eggs on the back of it. Eventually the power supply on that thing just melted...

[rh15951]

350-500? :amaze:

How loud are your drummers?

Real drummers :thumb:

300W of Ashdown does the job quite well :chug:

[Jimbobntnr]

fwiw I am in a couple bands, I take a 30 w Peavey 110 combo to play with one and have no problems being heard at 4. the other one? the drummer buries my 300w 800rb unless I play through both cabinets.

[bass face]

i would say no...i play with a fender bassman 250/210 and i can barely beat my drummer

[pitchfork]

For the last time
WATTS DO NO EQUAL VOLUME
You can get away with a practise amp if the drummer you are playing with is any good and understand dynamics.

For a band practise you can easily get away with something like a fender rumble 100 or a good 12"-15" speakered combo.
Its nice to have big rigs but its also nice to not be crippled so don't invest in a massive rig if you aren't gigging regularly.

But man, some gigs I wish I had 4x the power I have, some of the big 700 person venues round here have ****e PA's and idiot soundmen.

[edgebass5]

For the last time
WATTS DO NO EQUAL VOLUME

Amen brotha :thumb:

[Jimbobntnr]

it's a good thing he yelled, I'm listening to my stereo at about 68W per channel.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've been heard with a 60 watt guitar amp when playing with a guitarist and a drummer.

I don't know anything about amps.

Apparently watts don't equal volume... I guess it's just coincidence that amps with more watts tend to be louder.

But seriously, I know nothing about amps.

[Son of Magni]

I've been heard with a 60 watt guitar amp when playing with a guitarist and a drummer.

I don't know anything about amps.

Apparently watts don't equal volume... I guess it's just coincidence that amps with more watts tend to be louder.

But seriously, I know nothing about amps.

They're not louder, they just sound louder!

[museic]

man i have a ported 4x10 cab.. with a head rated at 450 watts.. its loud but i wouldnt want anything less

[Jimbobntnr]

They're not louder, they just sound louder!

my amp has 300 perceived watts.

[Son of Magni]

my amp has 300 perceived watts.

Now that's loud!

[rh15951]

For the last time
WATTS DO NO EQUAL VOLUME
You can get away with a practise amp if the drummer you are playing with is any good and understand dynamics.

For a band practise you can easily get away with something like a fender rumble 100 or a good 12"-15" speakered combo.
Its nice to have big rigs but its also nice to not be crippled so don't invest in a massive rig if you aren't gigging regularly.

But man, some gigs I wish I had 4x the power I have, some of the big 700 person venues round here have ****e PA's and idiot soundmen.

NO ONE HAS SAID WATTS EQUAL VOLUME

[Son of Magni]

^^^ you forgot the italics...

I don't understand why every time someone mentions amp power, someone has to scream that watts doesn't = volume. If you can scientifically prove that a 10 watt amp can be just as loud as a 1000 watt amp, just prove it and get it over with :rolleyes:

I also wish the "for the last time" part was literal...

[Jimbobntnr]

db or spl = volume. this is directly proportional to Watts and sensitivity.

[edgebass5]

db or spl = volume. this is directly proportional to Watts and sensitivity.

Well, the argument goes like this: How loud is 1 watt?

That's the be-all-end-all statement of the whole thing. Its pretty much infalible as far as I'm concerned. Obviously a 1,000 watt amp has more volume potential than a 10 watt amp, but the fact of the matter remains that 1 watt into cab A will not produce the same db's as 1 watt into cab B. Nor will it sound the same, nor will it be perceived the same, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

To quote directly from the Acme website:
The sensitivity, power capacity and maximum output of a loudspeaker are related by a precise mathematical relationship:
Om = (10 x log Pm) +S1, where

Om = maximum output
Pm = maximum input power
S1 = sensitivity measured at one Watt/one meter

....Show me what part of that says that 1 watt = X db and I'll promptly pull down my pants and shove any one of my basses right up my butthole! :lol:

[Son of Magni]

Well, the argument goes like this: How loud is 1 watt...

Your butthole aside, the fact is that 10 watts into cab A is louder than 1 watt into cab A. So the power of your amp has a lot to do with how loud you can play. How many people do you know that will stick with their 15 watt bedroom practice amp and just add a more efficient speaker so they can gig with it?

I could say "string tension does not equal string stiffness", it's just as stupid because its a blanket statement that only addresses one of many factors. But in a given rig, if you replace the head with a bigger one you'll be louder (assuming your cab can handle it). It's physics 101...

[Roogen]

Well first of all watts are a measure of power...

So a really crappy amp can use 400 watts and sound no louder than a 50 watt amp. Its how efficient the amp is with the power it consumes is what you have to consider when buying.

[Jimbobntnr]

Well, the argument goes like this: How loud is 1 watt?

That's the be-all-end-all statement of the whole thing. Its pretty much infalible as far as I'm concerned. Obviously a 1,000 watt amp has more volume potential than a 10 watt amp, but the fact of the matter remains that 1 watt into cab A will not produce the same db's as 1 watt into cab B. Nor will it sound the same, nor will it be perceived the same, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

To quote directly from the Acme website:
The sensitivity, power capacity and maximum output of a loudspeaker are related by a precise mathematical relationship:
Om = (10 x log Pm) +S1, where

Om = maximum output
Pm = maximum input power
S1 = sensitivity measured at one Watt/one meter

....Show me what part of that says that 1 watt = X db and I'll promptly pull down my pants and shove any one of my basses right up my butthole! :lol:
Argue against my whole statement as opposed to a portion of it. And directly proportional means something different than equal to.

And the equation that you have posted here shows the direct correlation of the power amp's power supply, which you and I discussed approx 7 months ago - you saying that the power supply didn't affect the output power.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

you bolded watts, but not sensitivity, which is a cab rating. Argue against my whole statement as opposed to a portion of it. And directly proportional means something different than equal to.

I am not trying to argue with you here, but you are saying that he bolded watts and not sensitivity, but watts is bolded and sensitivity isn't in your post. :confused:

[Jimbobntnr]

I am not trying to argue with you here, but you are saying that he bolded watts and not sensitivity, but watts is bolded and sensitivity isn't in your post. :confused:
lol. Drunk posting ftw. I'll fix it.

[Jimbobntnr]

Well first of all watts are a measure of power...

So a really crappy amp can use 400 watts and sound no louder than a 50 watt amp. Its how efficient the amp is with the power it consumes is what you have to consider when buying.

That would then be the power consumption rating, right? We're looking at the power output rating. And then with your point we still wouldn't be talking watts, we would be talking ratings.

[BassVirtuoso]

My Rumble 100 isn't really loud enough for either of my bands.

[edgebass5]

As far as I'm concerned my argument still stands until someone can tell me how loud a watt really is.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

http://www.sabre-international.com/a-simple-guide-to-loudspeaker-technology.html

I don't know how factual that site is seeing as I just skimmed over it, but it talks about Watts to dB increase towards the bottom.

[Akira]

My Rumble 100 isn't really loud enough for either of my bands.

My Rumble 100 was loud enough for my old band, which had two guitarists and a drummer. One of the guitarists was crazy loud too.

[Son of Magni]

As far as I'm concerned my argument still stands until someone can tell me how loud a watt really is.

Hopefully I can help clarify this complicated issue. Please take this simple test...


1) Turning your volume control clockwise does what?

a- Increases your hormones
b- Increases the airspeed on an unladen swallow
c- Increases your volume

Answer: All of the above (you're scaring the swallow...)

2) It does this how?

a- By modulating the gravitational field of the planet
b- By putting beans in your ears
c- By increasing the power to the speaker

Answer: c, unless it's lima beans that taste like starch

3) What units are used to measure amplifier power?

a- Lima beans
b- Swallow poop
c- Watts

Answer: 42, the meaning of life


Edge, does this help?
- SoM

[edgebass5]

Wow, incredibly well-done! I'll be the first to admit that answer b to question 1 made me laugh.... but I have to wonder are you talking about an african or a european swallow? Surely an african swallow would not be scared by an increase in amplifier volume... the damn things can grib a coconut by the husk! if only they were migratory.

Now, the point that I'm making.. and have been making for a long time.... Is that amplifier power is only one part of a much large equation. So to answer question 3 yes, amplifier power is measured in watts. However, put 1 watt into a cab and its going to produce x db's. Put that same watt into another cab and its going to produce y db's. Its akin to people saying that a 1x15 cabinet will be deeper in tone than a 2x10 because the speaker's a larger diameter. You can't look at amplification in such a narrow way.

I fully understand that 1 watt into cabinet A won't be as loud as 100 watts into cabinet A, but that's not really the point of my argument.

People will constantly say things like "I used to use a 60 watt amp and get over 13 guitarists all using marshall full stacks and a drummer who's kick drum was actually an elephant laying on its side." The 60 watts part is irrelevant. Give me 300 watts and an Ampeg 1x15 and I doubt you'd be able to hear me in a full arrangement. Now, give me 300 watts and a Bill Fitzmaurice Omni 15... I bet you'll hear me with gusto :thumb:

...until the aforementioned elephant decides that the swallow in the room is pissing him off and all hell breaks loose :p

[BassVirtuoso]

My Rumble 100 was loud enough for my old band, which had two guitarists and a drummer. One of the guitarists was crazy loud too.

My drummer is an insane black man.

[Akira]

My drummer is an insane black man.

That must be it.

[Ethan.]

it's a good thing he yelled, I'm listening to my stereo at about 68W per channel.

Haha good one.

Come on guys we all know watts is a convienient way to roughly measure around how loud it might be.

[edgebass5]

^^^Actually.... no.... its not.

[ledzepfan32]

alright, i'm not getting in the watts/loud debate, but in most cases, that specific 50 watt ampeg amp wont be heard that well over a drummer, let alone more bandmates. It would be wise to just spend another hundred dollars or so and get some 1x15/100watt combo, ie ba-115, ampeg b-100r, rumble 100, crate bt100, maybe one of the new behringer amps. <--not sure about all of those, but for a little more it would be worth it over the ba112. just my thoughts.

haha, i just remembered about the newer fender bassman amps, it looks like the Bassman 150 would be nice, still has the 1 12" speaker, but 150 watts, so it would be twice as loud. hehe.

[Son of Magni]

Wow, incredibly well-done...

Thanks and <3

Too bad it was the last post on the page because no one else will ever look at it :p

I think we understand each other. I agree that it's important for people to realize that speakers have different sensitivities. And some people may not realize that a 3db increase in sensitivity is the same as doubling your amp power.

For me, I only use stacks, I've never owned an "amp" other little practice amps. I choose cabs based on sound, portability, power handling, and load (ohms). Then I add a head that can drive it to the level I need (ie, want). So for me, amplifier power is a VERY important factor.
- SoM

[gaslight]

You don't need a massive amp to be heard over a drum kit, as long as your drummer knows how to play sensibly.

[museic]

You don't need a massive amp to be heard over a drum kit, as long as your drummer knows how to play sensibly.


i would say my drummer plays sensibly.. he holds back a lot but i still find i need a big amp.. i would say im in quite a loud band though where the bass is high in the mix

[edgebass5]

So for me, amplifier power is a VERY important factor.

Its a very important factor for me as well (why else would I be running a 1600 watt power amp? :lol: )

I just feel that its only one piece of the puzzle in regards to overall volume and tone... and suffice it to say... its one hell of a large puzzle!

[Ethan.]

^^^Actually.... no.... its not.

So your telling me that If I say I have a 15W Fender Frontman amp and then I have a 150W Fender Frontman amp (I dunno if they make them, but thats beside the point) and I tell you I need the loudest out of the two your gonna say there is no way to know that the 150W amp is louder than the 15W amp besides by listening to it?

[AcerbicCunnt77]

Im heard fine at practice through my fender rumble 15 lolz. that piece of crap.

[museic]

So your telling me that If I say I have a 15W Fender Frontman amp and then I have a 150W Fender Frontman amp (I dunno if they make them, but thats beside the point) and I tell you I need the loudest out of the two your gonna say there is no way to know that the 150W amp is louder than the 15W amp besides by listening to it?

thats kind of a silly example..

say if you get a 300 watt ampeg and play it with a a 300 watt galliun krueger or somthing... you will find one will be louder! (probably the GK!)

so you might find some amps rated at lower wattages might be louder than higher rated amps..

you just have to try them out to find out!

[edgebass5]

thats kind of a silly example..

Thank you!

So your telling me that If I say I have a 15W Fender Frontman amp and then I have a 150W Fender Frontman amp (I dunno if they make them, but thats beside the point) and I tell you I need the loudest out of the two your gonna say there is no way to know that the 150W amp is louder than the 15W amp besides by listening to it?

That's not what I'm saying at all, you haven't read my posts clearly. Look at it this way:

Wattage A into Cab A results in Volume X
Wattage A into Cab B results in Volume Y

Saying that you have "blank" number of watts gives no indication of how loud the rig will be. As another example, I drive my rig with a 1600 watt QSC PLX1602 running in bridged mono into a 4 ohm load. If you used an 800 watt amplifier with my rig it would be just as loud as my 1600 watts since probably only 500 are being used to drive the cab most of the time. The remaining wattage is nothing but headroom, yet despite the fact that one amp is twice as powerful as the other, there's no discernable volume difference.

[Jimbobntnr]

so you might find some amps rated at lower wattages might be louder than higher rated amps..

Again, the statement is not "rated watts =/= volume", it's "watts =/= volume"

[edgebass5]

Again, the statement is not "rated watts =/= volume", it's "watts =/= volume"

:thumb:

A lot of the confusion about the ACTUAL power output of amplifiers comes from the fact that there is no standard benchmark under which amplifiers are tested.

A while back I did a comparison between the Mesa M-Pulse 600 head that I used to own and an Ampeg SVT-4Pro (running in bridged mono with an appropriately wired speakon cable). The 4Pro is something like 1200 watts into a 4 ohm load if I remember correctly, whereas the Mesa is 600 watts into a 4 ohm load. The Mesa was just as loud as the 4Pro all the way to the point of being uncomfortably loud. This makes me think that the frequency used to test the Ampeg was much higher than the Mesa giving it a seemingly higher power output rating. Since no one lists what their test frequency actually is its pretty much impossible to get any truth out of listed specifications... 'tis sad, 'tis true :lol:

EDIT: Something to note about the comparison I did. Both heads were going into the same cab, therefore neither could be run at the same time. Both amps were set to their respective flat EQ positions. Most noteably, the cab in question farted out before I was able to get either amp to start distorting, so the 4Pro may very well have beaten the Mesa at the very top end of its output... but it certainly wasn't shaping up like that based on volume/gain knob positions.... Just thought I'd say that to clarify :D

[Jody LeCompte]

SINCE WATTS DON'T EQUAL VOLUME

Will my 2x12 beat the drums or should I use my 4x8?

You should be able to tell me since watts have NOTHING what so ever to do with volume.

/asshole rant

[pitchfork]

NO ONE HAS SAID WATTS EQUAL VOLUME

Yes they have

Not in a statement but recommending an amp of a certain amount of watts

[edgebass5]

You should be able to tell me since watts have NOTHING what so ever to do with volume.

I've said numerous times in this thread that the power output of your amplifier is only one part of the equation. How that equates to it having nothing to do with it is beyond me.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that what you've done is interpret my posts the way you wanted to hear them in order to formulate your spatula rant... Sorry it didn't work out for you :rolleyes: Read first, post second. :thumb:

EDIT: Oh, and furthermore, not all 2x12's, or 4x8's are created equally. One manufacturer's 2x12 design will more than likely have a different sensitivity at a given frequency. Until manufacturer's start publishing SPL charts measured at an equal benchmark across the board its impossible to accurately compare two speaker cabinets by any method other than actually listening to them.

[Pluperfect_Arson]

SINCE WATTS DON'T EQUAL VOLUME

Will my 2x12 beat the drums or should I use my 4x8?

You should be able to tell me since watts have NOTHING what so ever to do with volume.

/spatula rant

Just use both your 2x12" and 4x8".

Shoot.

[Jimbobntnr]

its impossible to accurately compare two speaker cabinets by any method other than actually listening to them.

but listening to them without any watts isn't going to tell you much...



sorry, I had to.

[edgebass5]

but listening to them without any watts isn't going to tell you much...



sorry, I had to.

ouch.... ouch... what's this pain? is this?... it is! its a knife in my back! :lol: ;)

[Ethan.]

Thank you!



That's not what I'm saying at all, you haven't read my posts clearly. Look at it this way:

Wattage A into Cab A results in Volume X
Wattage A into Cab B results in Volume Y

Saying that you have "blank" number of watts gives no indication of how loud the rig will be. As another example, I drive my rig with a 1600 watt QSC PLX1602 running in bridged mono into a 4 ohm load. If you used an 800 watt amplifier with my rig it would be just as loud as my 1600 watts since probably only 500 are being used to drive the cab most of the time. The remaining wattage is nothing but headroom, yet despite the fact that one amp is twice as powerful as the other, there's no discernable volume difference.
I understand what you are saying and I agree that it is correct, but I don't think uoy are understanding my point clearly.

I said watts is an easy way to ROUGHLY measure how loud its going to be. Thats not to say that a 100W amp is going to be 24.678483dB louder than a 25W amp. It's more like a 100W amp is going to be louder than a 25W amp, but we don't know how much because watts does not equal volume. It has a lot to do with it though.

[pitchfork]

Basically if put a 25 watt amp with a good speaker it could potentially be louder than a 250 watt amp with a crap speaker.
So wattage has no real connection wthi volume.

[Akira]

Basically if put a 25 watt amp with a good speaker it could potentially be louder than a 250 watt amp with a crap speaker.
So wattage has no real connection wthi volume.

That's so stupid. You cannot change two variables at once and get a valid outcome. A better setup would be a 25 watt amp with a good speaker, and a 250 watt amp with the same speaker. Which will probably be louder?

[Radiobass81]

Watts can also be a rough indicator of volume if you are comparing amps from the same brand.

[edgebass5]

I still don't agree that watts can even be a rough indicator of volume. As I've said before, wattage A into cab A will produce a different volume level then wattage A into cab B.

Now, let's look at a different scenario: Wattage A into cab A versus wattage B into cab A. Since doubling the amount of wattage fed into a speaker cabinet does not double the volume it becomes very blurry to ascertain volume increase based on watts. Theoretically it will require roughly 10 times the number of watts to equate to double the volume out of a speaker cabinet. So how many more decibles can you get out of cab A while pushing 300 watts into it versus the same cabinet being powered by 500 watts?

Add to that the non-common benchmark at which amplifier power is measured, and no clear way to tell what your amplifier is actually putting out (save for actually metering the output with a multimeter), and you're STILL left with the fact that watts do not give a clear indication of how loud a rig will be.

I've made my point several times over, and have done so in a multitude of different ways in this thread. I'm done debating over it. If you want to believe that watts are more than a small piece of a very large puzzle then be my guest, however wrong you might be...

[pitchfork]

That's so stupid. You cannot change two variables at once and get a valid outcome. A better setup would be a 25 watt amp with a good speaker, and a 250 watt amp with the same speaker. Which will probably be louder?

Why not, these variables change from amp to amp.
Thats why you cannot use watts as any kind of indication to volume.

[Akira]

Why not, these variables change from amp to amp.
Thats why you cannot use watts as any kind of indication to volume.

But if we are talking two rigs the same minus wattage, it is indeed at least a rough indicator.

[Radiobass81]

I still don't agree that watts can even be a rough indicator of volume. As I've said before, wattage A into cab A will produce a different volume level then wattage A into cab B.

Now, let's look at a different scenario: Wattage A into cab A versus wattage B into cab A. Since doubling the amount of wattage fed into a speaker cabinet does not double the volume it becomes very blurry to ascertain volume increase based on watts. Theoretically it will require roughly 10 times the number of watts to equate to double the volume out of a speaker cabinet. So how many more decibles can you get out of cab A while pushing 300 watts into it versus the same cabinet being powered by 500 watts?

Add to that the non-common benchmark at which amplifier power is measured, and no clear way to tell what your amplifier is actually putting out (save for actually metering the output with a multimeter), and you're STILL left with the fact that watts do not give a clear indication of how loud a rig will be.

I've made my point several times over, and have done so in a multitude of different ways in this thread. I'm done debating over it. If you want to believe that watts are more than a small piece of a very large puzzle then be my guest, however wrong you might be...
Edge, you have to understand, this is all in your analytical mind.

This is the real world:

We've got two Hartke amps, both of the VX series, both are 4x10. One is 300W, one is 500W.

Which is louder?

No way in hell a company will make an amp less louder and have more watts than another model of theirs.

Watts CAN be used to know which amp is louder in the right situation. The right situation is a bitch to get (I mean, same brand, similar models, roughly the same speaker configuration), but it's attainable.

Sure, it's possible the 300W is louder than the 500W, but a company wouldn't pull off this MINDFREAK on anyone.

[edgebass5]

Sure, it's possible the 300W is louder than the 500W, but a company wouldn't pull off this MINDFREAK on anyone.

I realize that I said I wasn't going to debate this anymore, and I apologize for feeling the need to get back into it... but your post has really missed the mark of what I was saying entirely.

300 watts into a Hartke VX cabinet is not going to be as loud as 500 watts into the same cabinet. That's a given. I'm not arguing against that at all. If that's what you think then you really need to read through my numerous posts on the subject.

As to the "real world" comment. I am discussing the real world. People suggesting that wattage is an indication of loudness are the ones discussing some fantasy world where all speakers and cabinets have the same sensitivity and frequency response, where all amp companies set their maximum output wattage by means of a common benchmark and publish truthful and accurate SPL charts, and where magical unicorns bless all players with the ability to play like Wooten, Pastorius, Hamm, and Sheehan at the same time... Here in the real world watts do not equal volume, nor do they serve as a useful reference point to ascertain the potential volume of a rig.

Saying that they do is like saying "Hey that house must be really nice because it has a really great looking front door." Sure the door might be nice, but what's the rest of the house like? Is the roof in need of repair? Are the carpets stained and filthy? Sure the amp puts out 10,000 watts, but what's it hooked up to? Is it going into a high-efficiency folding horn style cabinet, or is it going into a low efficiency direct radiator style cabinet?

The volume of a given rig (with no effects or other devices in the chain) is equal to:
output voltage of the bass - input impedance of the preamp + output voltage of the preamp - input impedance of the power amp + output wattage of the power amp / total impedance load of the cabinet(s) + output sensitivity of the cabinet(s) factored against EQ settings exclusive of their effect on the overall output voltage of the preamp, room acoustics, and any mental placebo effects of the user

If you can condense that equation down to the point of saying watts = volume then (to quote Bill Fitzmaurice over on Talkbass), I'll eat my cabinet, all the way down to the magnets. :lol:

[Radiobass81]

I was only arguing the part where you said watts was NO INDICATION AT ALL regarding volume. You analyze too much, including my posts (mainly saying this because your reply goes MUCH farther from anything I had implied in my post).

Watts can indicate which is louder in certain scenarios. You can't indicate how much louder it is, but yo ustill know which one is louder.

And the "real world" comment mainly regard brand name companies and their way on working. People can think what they think, I didn't refer to them at all.

[Polyamarous]

Remember the simpler times? With chocolate rivers, bird in the trees, grass beneath your feet.
Ahhh.

[edgebass5]

Remember the simpler times? With chocolate rivers, bird in the trees, grass beneath your feet.
Ahhh.

There was even a time when in addition to all that... there was actually marshmallow clouds.... mmmmmmmm....

[Ethan.]

:lol: at what this thread has become.

I give up arguing ok cause I really don't know that much about what I'm talking about.