Experimental my ***...

[PIGS(1 different one)]

Recently I've had a craving for some indie/experimental music in the vein of bands like: Kayo Dot(call them metal, but I think they are equally indie) Glissandro 70, The Flaming Lips (etc.) Although they sound nothing alike, they all retain a certain level of uniqueness.

Basically I was on a long and hard search for anything that was somewhat original sounding.

Having a brief history in post-rock I made my way to this fun filled genre of slow and ultra depressing instrumental music. Finding a good band in this genre is like finding money on the ground, it rarely happens but when it does it’s pretty sweet.

One thing I have started to notice about the post-rock genre is that it is saturated with terrible bands. There are some amazing bands out there, just like any genre, but for the most part they sound like people who just picked up a guitar and learned how to play a few minor progressions with inverted power chords overr ambient keys and symbol laden drums. I now firmly believe it’s a nice excuse for people who can't write a well structured song to make a bit of noise and call it an album(look for my album due out next week, I’m buying my first guitar tomorrow, downloading cool edit pro 2 in two days and im a gunna record the thing in 5, maybe 4 days)

There is a difference between being experimental and being absolute ****, and most post-rock bands fall into the latter.

So I cancelled my search for immaculate and mind blowing bands in this genre and made my way to some indie forums (gasp) and I also frequently checked the daily top 10 indie albums at oink.
Before I would download anything from oink, due to their ratio rules, I would check out myspace.com to see if the band had any music posted. About 93.444% of the bands had a myspace account, and about 5% of the bands I spelt wrong due to retarded band names. I eventually spelt their names correctly so it worked out pretty well. I would get my hopes up by reading their artist description at the top while waiting for the faulty myspace player to load up. Most of the time the genres read something like this: Indie/Experimental/Pop, Indie/Experimental/ Electronic, Folk/Experimental/Indie.
To my surprise I found nothing experimental about these bands, maybe originally some of the earlier bands were doing stuff that could have been considered experimental but over time every band was doing the same thing. What I am saying is this, if every band is doing something similar that is called “experimental” how is this experimental anymore?

Some examples and immediate thoughts of bands upon listening:

Explosions in the Sky- Shut the **** up
Xiu Xiu- Your kinda cool, but kinda really ****ing gay
Sufjan Stevens- Your 5 good songs doesn’t really balance out the 700 bad songs on your album dude
Aberdeen City- nice single, whats the rest of this ****e?
Yndi Halda- Shut the **** up
Midlake- Kinda like Neil Young if Neil Young was gay
squirrels attached to cars- nice inverted power chords you ****s
Moses, our great treefrog of ben fica- you portugese idiots
Appleseed Cast- Eve shouldn’t have ate the apple and god wouldnt have let this happen
Magneta Skycode- Shut the **** up
Yo La Tenga- Shut the **** up
Jeramiahs romance of sri lanken butt ****ing idiots- Shut the **** up

I know some of you will point out that a few of those bands don’t label themselves experimental and even some may not be real (can you find the fake ones without googling?), but it’s still pretty weak dribble.

Indie is not the only genre guilty of this either...

In progressive rock bands label themselves progressive while they are nothing more than clones of bands who were actually progressive in their music some 30 years ago.

See what I am saying?

Once certain band’s push the limits of a genre others are soon to follow. The result is that the sounds that were experimental at one time become the norm. All I can say is to keep pushing.

What once was labeled post-rock, because it pushed the boundaries of normal rock, is now nothing more than a derogatory term used for bands that couldn’t write a good song let alone a good album.

Basically this is just me bitching for someone to recommend me some good bands.

Would you be kind enough to do so?

[Anxious]

Don't take genre name's so seriously?

[Zesty Mordant]

that's some rant you got there. Oddly enough, I actually agree to an extent but I try not to get riled up over music that I don't like upon first listen. Regardless I'm sure you'll piss plenty people off if that's what you're aiming for.


One thing I have started to notice about the post-rock genre is that it is saturated with terrible bands. There are some amazing bands out there, just like any genre, but for the most part they sound like people who just picked up a guitar and learned how to play a few minor progressions with inverted power chords overr ambient keys and symbol laden drums. I now firmly believe it’s a nice excuse for people who can't write a well structured song to make a bit of noise and call it an album(look for my album due out next week, I’m buying my first guitar tomorrow, downloading cool edit pro 2 in two days and im a gunna record the thing in 5, maybe 4 days)


Is this directed at Burt?

[PIGS(1 different one)]

Nah, It's not directed at Burt?

Does he like post-rock a lot?

[StaticSynth]

Labels, labels.

[Zesty Mordant]

well, he writes post-rock music and he's releasing an album next week if i'm not mistaken.

[PIGS(1 different one)]

I'll see if it fits into the 1% of good post-rock or the 1% of orgasmic post-rock.

Or if it's in the 98 percentile.

;)

[Kage]

So what is good post rock for you? Name a band or two.

[PIGS(1 different one)]

Jaga Jazzist
God Is an Astronaut
The Samuel Jackson 5
Ellis the Vacuum Child
Red Sparrowes
Some Godspeed
This Will Destroy you
Caspian
Isis more metallish but their latest one reminded me of post-rock

[Kage]

Okay, you've got some of the greats there.

So do you consider them to be experimental?

In terms of experimental music, this probably isn't what you're looking for but I've been into John Zorn and James Chance (Controtions) and stuff like that, in addition to Kayo Dot and Giant Squid.

[PIGS(1 different one)]

I love John Zorn and I own 14 of his albums.

I downloaded a Giant Squid album today actually and I enjoy it a lot.

I'd consider some of those bands on that list to be somewhat experimental.

Shall I post my post rock song that I wrote and recorded in under 2 days?

[pixiesfanyo]

Infidel? / Castro! - Bioentropic Damage Fractal (noise/post-rock)

Time of Orchids - Sarcast While (neo-classical/posthardcore) - in the vein of mr. bungle/kayo dot

Rachel's - The Sea and the Bells (classical/postrock)

Mare - Mare EP (sludgely postmetal) - in the vein of Kayo Dot's heavier sections and Isis

Ephel Duath - Painter's Pallette (jazzy-metal) - you've probably already heard this but if not..

[Kage]

Yeah, I'd say post rock in general is basically somewhat experimental in some cases, but overall I'm not sure it really aims to be experimental. I'd say the last post rock band to truly be experimental was Tortoise (who, if you haven't already, you should definitely check out). But I enjoy a lot of the music anyway.

Also, a precursor to post rock is Robert Fripp's 70s collaborations with Brian Eno. That's quite experimental, as is some of the stuff Adrian Belew is putting out.

Sweet, which John Zorn albums do you have?

[dei]

What's wrong with Yndi Halda, Xiu Xiu, Midlake, or even Explosions in the Sky?

This Will Destroy You is pretty awesome, as is Caspian.
I heard about them from a friend of a friend. Good stuff.
I hear their live shows are awesome, awesome, awesome.

Before I forget, indie isn't a genre.

[Otherside]

I can't believe you put YLT and Sufjan with those bands :\

Oh and did you check out Sigur Ros?

[SubtleDagger]

Nah, It's not directed at Burt?

Does he like post-rock a lot?
I play guitar and I'm putting out my second album Thanksgiving Day, which is guitar-only and took me basically this whole year to work out; a few samples are on the first website in my sig

Not that you care because all post-rock is crap and metal is tr00 and YOU LIKE MASTODON AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA XD

That being said, Jared's suggestions are best

[pulseczar]

I don't see how Yo La Tengo fits in with anything you said... and why would you take genre labels on myspace seriously?

[SubtleDagger]

I don't get how post-rock even fits into the rant. I mean on pretty much all accounts it doesn't seem like post-rock is even what you'd want to listen to

What seems even dumber is that you totally lambast it in your rant but all the ones you named in the other post are the typical big post-rock bands, and you only named like one or two you didn't like in the rant who aren't even big names (aside from EitS who are overrated)

I mean sure, post-rock is oversaturated, but so is metal and hardcore and pretty much every genre ever; there isn't a single genre that is all original stuff or even mostly original stuff

[dei]

You've got some alright stuff, Burt.

[Kage]

Why did you delete my post?

[SubtleDagger]

Because I had deleted mine and it was irrelevant

I misunderstood what he was saying since the rant is so all over the place

[Kage]

Okay, understood.

[ATM]

Bands on MySpace always have ridiculous labels.

[Kage]

Yeah, there's no reason to pay any attention to them.

And like Burt said post rock isn't really what you're looking for anyway if you're trying to find experimental music.

[AlienEater]

Post rock is rarely experimental.

What you want is Speaking Canaries, even though they aren't really experimental.

[Wanker]

First of all, I wouldn't go around calling Explosions in the Sky "experimental."

The term post rock used to really mean something but nowadays, bands seem to just get categorized under the term. Don't know what genre a band is? Call it post-rock. It's retarded.

Plus, TS, you seem to only enjoy the heavier/progressive side of post rock. Jaga Jazzist, Pelican, Red Sparowes and Isis?

Post-rock interested me in the first place because each band had their own unique take on the genre, but you really can't poo poo, per se, an entire genre when you've only heard a fraction of the bands who occupy it.

The original nature of post-rock implied expermentation: "using rock instrumentation for non-rock purposes, using guitars as facilitators of timbres and textures rather than riffs and power chords." -Simon Reynolds, Mojo Magazine, March 1994

That has morphed into bands like Red Sparowes and ISIS who use rock instruments with riffs and powerchords. Oh how it's changed.
Wikipedia states that "Post-rock is [now] a music genre characterized by nontraditional use of instruments and high musical density." Which isn't even true. Some bands use high musical density but other bands use silence as an antithesis to that high density.

Have you listened to Tortoise, Slint, Bark Psychosis or Talk Talk, the biggest influences on the genre?

Next time I go into R&M I'll write a long post about how Black Metal isn't really by black people and that Death Metal doesn't kill you and that they're both retarded for those reasons. Jesus.

In any case, I'll recommend Tortoise's Millions Now Living Will Never Die, Slint's Spiderland, Bark Psychosis' Hex and Talk Talk's Laughing Stock.

[Sam]

You hate Explosions in the Sky but listen to Godspeed You Black Emperor!

I don't get it.

[SubtleDagger]

GYBE is much much better than EitS

EitS is alright but not anything revelatory

[Sam]

I agree with you on the second point.

But I still contend that GYBE is lame.

[SubtleDagger]

Ew no way

Anyway the big point is that post-rock is often experimental but that doesn't necessarily make it original

I mean, when I first started recording stuff I didn't even know what post-rock was, I was just experimenting in order to make the music I liked to begin with; even if it had ended up sounding like every other post-rock band out there (even though I don't think it does) it would still be inherently experimental

[PIGS(1 different one)]

Ew no way

Anyway the big point is that post-rock is often experimental but that doesn't necessarily make it original

I mean, when I first started recording stuff I didn't even know what post-rock was, I was just experimenting in order to make the music I liked to begin with; even if it had ended up sounding like every other post-rock band out there (even though I don't think it does) it would still be inherently experimental

That is a very good point and I even considered that myself because for one part of the post-rockish song I made I experimented a lot even though to other people it may not sound experimental.

But in that case all music would be experimental even for a Britney Spears album because the person making the music is still experimenting with different notes, tones, instruments (etc.)

So all music is experimental while it is being made.

But to the beholder of the music, the person who listens to it, a Britney Spears song would not sound experimental.

Let's say someone conducts an experiment on the intelligence of cat's. They do not know of any experiments of the same nature that have already been conducted. So someone who has already studied the intelligence of cats and was the first person to do so wouldn't consider this experiment original at all. The person studying cats who didn't know of any past experiments would consider his work original and perhaps the results would differ between the two.

I guess what the focus of the argument was to be even more experimental. Do a study on cat's while on an acid binge and write the results in a language you do not fully understand. The results would then be experimental because you would be the first person to do it this way.

[SubtleDagger]

No no

To my knowledge, what I was recording hadn't been done before

And I mean it is the only post-rock solo guitar thing I've heard, but even at the time, post-rock was not a concept in my mind, it didn't exist yet since I had never heard it

Nowadays post-rock is relatively big so that doesn't happen much but when a genre isn't that huge it happens a lot without all the bands even realizing it is happening

[World Burns To Death]

If you don't like it, then don't listen to it.

[Moon Flavor]

If you don't like it, then don't listen to it.

Moneyshot.

If you want something experimental that's not post-rock, go dig up the avant garde thread I made in R&M a while back and look at Kage's (and some other people's) suggestions.

[PIGS(1 different one)]

No no

To my knowledge, what I was recording hadn't been done before

And I mean it is the only post-rock solo guitar thing I've heard, but even at the time, post-rock was not a concept in my mind, it didn't exist yet since I had never heard it

Nowadays post-rock is relatively big so that doesn't happen much but when a genre isn't that huge it happens a lot without all the bands even realizing it is happening

I said all music is essentially experimental.

It is then up to the listener to decide if it is experimental based on what they have heard before.

I rarely hear anything that sounds uniquely experimental anymore.

It frustrates me that I can't find good bands, been on a slump... :(

[SubtleDagger]

Well like I said, the stuff Jared mentioned is very experimental

That Infidel?/Castro! record is the best record I've heard in a long while

And my album is out Thanksgiving >_>

[italic zero]

Most music is experimental, doesn't mean it's unique.

[Zebra]

In any case, I'll recommend Tortoise's Millions Now Living Will Never Die, Slint's Spiderland, Bark Psychosis' Hex and Talk Talk's Laughing Stock.

I was going to recommend every one of those. Good job. Most of those are pretty experimental for post-rock standards, especially Slint and Tortoise.

[pixiesfanyo]

Well like I said, the stuff Jared mentioned is very experimental

That Infidel?/Castro! record is the best record I've heard in a long while

And my album is out Thanksgiving >_>

Yeah the stuff I mentioned rules.

Go listen to it.