Pat Metheny Sucks

[Rams]

He's a soccer mom who plays guitar. He has one great CD and plenty of horrible ones. He makes Kenny G sound edgy.

[Eliminator]

That's cool.

[jazzfromhell]

I've never been interested in listening to him, I've heard bits and pieces and it just sounds way too smooth and cliched. Unless there's an album where he drastically changes his playing style (would the one you're referring to be Song X, with Ornette Coleman?), I can't see him having even one good album, because I just can't stand the sound of his playing. Kenny G is worse, but there's no point in debating because I wouldn't be caught listening to either (except perhaps the aforementioned Coleman album).

[tHiRd EyE OpEn]

i bet kenny g could write a song were he holds one note for like 45 minutes

[joas]

it's too bad the trio albums are incredible, as well as the metheny/mehldau and metheny/hall recordings

[Misterioso]

I admit I'm not a fan. Most of his stuff just wanders around without any real feeling for me. Still I think comparing him to Kenny G is a bit unfair. Metheny has a little more jazz pedigree than that. One of his first albums "Bright Sized Life" with Jaco Pastorius is quite good. I like the session with Jim Hall a lot. It's got some garbage tracks on it, but some great interplay on others. He did a quartet session with Roy Haynes that is the closest thing to jazz he's ever done. And I have Josua Redman's Wish where Metheny nearly steals the show. Give those a listen and your opinion might change.:rolleyes:

[Kage]

I like his music but it doesn't at all feel like jazz to me, regardless of how much jazz theory goes into it. And it's good stuff in that regard, but it just doesn't have any spontaneity to it, one quality I heavily value in jazz.

[some jive turkey]

I admit I'm not a fan. Most of his stuff just wanders around without any real feeling for me. Still I think comparing him to Kenny G is a bit unfair. Metheny has a little more jazz pedigree than that. One of his first albums "Bright Sized Life" with Jaco Pastorius is quite good. I like the session with Jim Hall a lot. It's got some garbage tracks on it, but some great interplay on others. He did a quartet session with Roy Haynes that is the closest thing to jazz he's ever done. And I have Josua Redman's Wish where Metheny nearly steals the show. Give those a listen and your opinion might change.:rolleyes:

I would cite those same examples of his tasteful material. Bright sized life, and Wish. But not to his credit, I think it has more to do with him playing and functioning in more of a jazz guitar role, rather than smooth-elevator-weather channel-music guitar role. This is to say that it is probably a result of who he's playing with on those records and instead of him leading his own thing.

There is a fun solo moment on one track on Wish where he plays one single note over and over again for a whole chorus, and the drummer gets a little stirred up by it.
I think it is Works, that also has some okay songs on it, but they seem more like "new agey-guitar music" than "jazz" (for lack of better terminology)

But yeah, for the most part he's lame.

[Rams]

Jim Hall can make any musician sound good. In terms of versatillity, no one can do it better (maybe the D.O.C.?). Pat Metheny on the other hand can do one thing, and not that well. His only good CD is Bright Size Life because it actually has fresh/unique approach that doesn't consist of watering down pop music into jazz. The highlights of the rest of the work is that the "Who's The Boss" theme is taken from him on his Pat Metheny Group album and doing a Final Fantasy 2 tribute with Secret Story.

[Lydisk]

uh what?!

metheny is one of the greatest musicians alive

come on!

[something vague]

He's probably a better player than most you critics will ever be.

Yeah, that's relevant.

[traveller]

metheny is awesome!!! don't slander his name unneccessarily.

[Futuro]

I love Pats stuff. <shrug>

[Amit]

it is, cause your a dumbass who has no clue about music, so therefore you can't criticize his playing.

lol irony

[some jive turkey]

I think the reason people dislike music like Metheny's or Kenny G's is that their music does not contain a vast enough spectrum of emotions in order to convey a sense of sincerety. It's like a carefully edited in it's emotional portrayal. Or a carefully edited journal of someone's life.

I think it's more about a balance of positive and negative emotions, harmony and dissonnance, major and minor.................kind of a yin/yang sort of thing.

If you're only playing music that's all butterflies, roses and roaring waves on an open coastline, then it's like an innacurate reflection of what life is really like. Most people's lives are not like greeting card commercials. It is normal and healthy for people to experience pain, sadness, angst (along with bliss, joy, etc..)

I think the same thing is true of music that dwells only on those negative emotions. KMFDM is about as boring to me as Metheny because there is no push/pull of feelings. It's just mostly one thing beating into your brain for five minutes at a time.

I think this is what gives music "soul": Making music that reflects life how it really is. Herbie Hancock has actually talked about this before, but i can't remember where.
Neither KMFDM or Metheny have much soul in their music, IMO.

[Amit]

man i thought i'd never live to see the day where an analogy covering kmfdm and metheny could actually be pulled off successfully

[joas]

so since rams and no one else responded or mentioned his trio work, i'll ask again if anyone has heard those albums and then still considers him to be some sort of pop-fusion/not "real jazz" musician

[Krabsworth]

Yeah the pat metheny/jim hall album i have is amazing

[Rams]

so since rams and no one else responded or mentioned his trio work, i'll ask again if anyone has heard those albums and then still considers him to be some sort of pop-fusion/not "real jazz" musician

I never said he wasn't a real jazz musician, he's just a bad one with watered down pop-jazz. Trio 99>00 sucks as does his live one. His trio with Jaco and Moses was pretty good, but then he fell off like a noodle monster he is today.

[baggagebassman]

I really like the live trio stuff with Larry Grenadier and Antonio Sanchez.

[some jive turkey]

man i thought i'd never live to see the day where an analogy covering kmfdm and metheny could actually be pulled off successfully

It's true,...I am the analogy master.:smoke:

[Jeff Vivrette]

Wow! Strong statement. Opinion is one thing but to say he suck's?

I don't own 1 Paverati (spelling?) CD/Album but million's of other people do and enjoy him.

I say don't measure him if he suck's based on your taste of music or style, but his ability and credibility.

I think he's awesome. Not my favorite player or style but he's still awesome.

I wonder how we measure up against his playing?

[NIOO]

Agreed. The poster is probably just trying to get people to post. I wish I could call him on that without bumping his thread -_-

[nasgul]

i agree.
Metheny is one of the most talented guitarists on the contemporary jazz scene.
People here, considering themselves critics, use such 'relevant' arguments as 'he sucks...' and 'he sounds like kenny g'...

i'm waiting to hear yet one good musical reason why you dislike him. again, for you smarties, a MUSICAL reason, not your own taste, that is not to argue.

[Scuba_Steve]

i'm waiting to hear yet one good musical reason why you dislike him. again, for you smarties, a MUSICAL reason, not your own taste, that is not to argue.


That's impossible, because music is subjective. No music is automatically bad because of how it was written etc.

[Rams]

i'm waiting to hear yet one good musical reason why you dislike him. again, for you smarties, a MUSICAL reason, not your own taste, that is not to argue.

He noodles eight notes together without playing with contour. He flat lines his volume. He is atrocious at accompaniment. He plays the chords, but seldom does he hear what the other soloists are playing and helps bring them up. His tone sucks (yes, that is a musical reason). He plays water-down jazz in the simplest form by fusing it with new-age and pop without adding flare to it. He constantly reuses heads and themes in his improvisation (think Eric Dolphy half-heartedly improvisting Who's The Boss Theme), being a giant vagina by not getting out of a comfort zone in his improvisations. His improvisations are simple enough that they sound composed. He sucks as a jazz guitarist.

[Anglachel]

I like Pat :(

[sheetmusicforsongs]

Pat Metheny in my opinion is by far one of the best jazz musicians of our time.

What I like so well is the uniqueness of his sound. It's like no other and he is often imitated.

I first got introduced to Pat back in the 80's when his "First Circle" project was released. That one is still one of my favorites.

I like his drive, ambition and his relentless pursuit to work with some of the best musicians throughout the world, from England to Italy.

Take care,

SheetMusicForSongs

[Aaron]

He noodles eight notes together without playing with contour. He flat lines his volume. He is atrocious at accompaniment. He plays the chords, but seldom does he hear what the other soloists are playing and helps bring them up. His tone sucks (yes, that is a musical reason). He plays water-down jazz in the simplest form by fusing it with new-age and pop without adding flare to it. He constantly reuses heads and themes in his improvisation (think Eric Dolphy half-heartedly improvisting Who's The Boss Theme), being a giant omnibus by not getting out of a comfort zone in his improvisations. His improvisations are simple enough that they sound composed. He sucks as a jazz guitarist.
I agree with this completley. He knows what he's doing but doesn't challenge himself. That's worse than being talentless, imo.

[SRTracer]

I really dig his trio album "The Way Up". I think it was released in '05. I think haha. I also picked up the Metheny/Mehldau album which has some great material on it. "Bright Sized Life" and "Song X" are really great, in my opinion. I really enjoy Metheny from what I've heard, but I'm pretty new to jazz overall so I can't very accurately comment or reflect on what i've heard as far as it's actual jazz qualities. But I do, personally, really enjoy his music.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I really enjoy the Pat Metheny Group's first, self-titled album, Pat Metheny Group.

[Jezen]

I like the Pat Metheny - Speaking of Now (Live) DVD. Maybe more so for Antonio Sanchez.. But I still think he's good.

[Stig Caraveo]

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512825

[Aaron]

I really enjoy the Pat Metheny Group's first, self-titled album, Pat Metheny Group.
So their self-titled album is the same as their name? wow! lol..

[Hebrew Hammer]

I felt like being redundant.

[SillyPuddyonIce]

I have Bright Size Life I really like it.

[Frequently Tripping]

Bright Size Life is amazing, I dunno what you guys are talking about.

And why must this be the Pat Metheny thread?

[ak50324]

he is an amazing musician...with a really "bad" sense of melody and "bad" styles of writing.

I love his early stuff though.

[PERFECTXDARK]

I thought id never ever hear/see this.

Pat Methany is amazing in my opinion,but that is yours and I respect that.

but thus,I love Pat Methany,he is amazing and a amazing guitarist.

[myfingersareonfire]

he's okay

I still prefer more mainstream guys like DiMeola

[Rollo47]

Bright Size Life is fantastic, as are a few others, such as his album with John Scofield. One thing I will say, though, is that he is a lot better live.

[Det_Nosnip]

He makes Kenny G sound edgy.

That's a stretch, but everything else is fairly accurate.

[PERFECTXDARK]

Bright Size Life is amazing, I dunno what you guys are talking about.

I love that song it is amazing,cant get enough.

[MNdrummer21]

Sheesh, lots of metheny hate on here. I like all of his stuff, especially Bright Size Life, Pat Metheny group, and Trio 99>00(I think that's it, the name slipped my mind, but I think thats right).

[timelapse]

wooww, Pat is an amazing musician with an incredible sense of sound. If anyone has seen the video of him playing his infamous "Picasso" guitar, then you may know what i'm getting at. His improv style I also find very interesting on albums such as Imaginary Day he plays sitar along with guitar on these tracks and it is phenomenal, and also We Live Here. give him a chance, i'm the majority of you bashing listened to probably a couple songs are just agreeing with this group decision to rag on him.

[Det_Nosnip]

There are just so many more colorful fish in the sea...

[eloyhbermudez]

i think his playng on the 80 is beautiful , check out the brecker first album , the question and answer album , zero tolerance for silence is an amazing record . as a composer he got interesting stuff like the pmg album quartet (for me the best pmg record ) but slowly his imrpov becomes on the 90 so boring and repetitive , same lines , same patterns allover again , is so predictable , i feel that what he plays is more memory than improv . He is like dryed up (my opinion)

[Jaded]

Metheny kicks ***

[Amit]

Metheny sucks ***

Fixed LOL

[Dhyana]

i love san lorenzo

[Dhyana]

is that bad

[eloyhbermudez]

is not that bad , he is a great composer who has the control to do comercial music on one side and intricate things on the other side , he has to earn money like everyone else in capitalism . He got the balls to do a solo album , thats very uncomercial and amazing and few guitarist dare to do . But still in my opinion his imrovised lines are boring as i said in a previous post .

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i agree with everyone in this thread

i like his solo acoustic work though songs for the boys album is pretty

[Iai]

What a ridiculous bump.

[Meatplow]

thats what I was thunking

[aks_29]

I have a feeling that most of the people who are posting here haven't heard the album Question and Answer. Also, his duet album with Charlie Haden has some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard on it.

[Iai]

By this point, most of the people on the first page have probably got married, had kids, and written their memoirs.

[Aaron]

I haven't had any kids. That I know of! Zing!