good start-off album?

[Fuel0262]

If I am going to buy my first like, heavy metal/hardcore album, what should I get? I've heard that Ashes of the Wake from Lamb of God is good, but so is Train of Thought by Dream Theater. I dunno, just help me out here.
btw i dont care if you think either of those bands suck, just suggest some stuff that would be good. right now, i mostly listen to iron maiden, metallica, pantera, and savatage. that whole 80's metal thing

[Freezing Moon]

If you like that whole 80's metal thing, then you should get into some thrash, not that "hardcore" scene. The new american metal scene is balls.

Check out a few of these...

Running Wild - Gates to Purgatory
Exodus - Bonded By Blood
Slayer - Hell Awaits
Dark Angel - Darkness Descends
Artillery - By Inheritance (I prefer Terror Squad, but this may be a bit easier to get into)
Kreator - Pleasure to Kill
Razor - Evil Invaders

If you want something heavier, maybe go for some old-school death metal.

Morbid Angel - Altars of Madness
Obituary - Cause of Death
Entombed - Left Hand Path
Carcass - Necroticism
Dismember - Like an Ever Flowing Stream
Grave - Into the Grave


edit: Oh, and I may as well mention... If you like Pantera, check out Exhorder - Slaughter in the Vatican. That's the band Pantera ripped off when they changed from their flowery glam metal to groove/thrash metal.

[Sleepy]

Disarmonia Mundi - Fragments of D-Generation
Deftones - Saturday Night Wrist
Tool - Lateralus
Protest the Hero - Kezia

[Jude]

The only metal bands worth listening to are Opeth, In Flames, Tool, and Rammstein. Get Still Life, Colony, Lateralus and Mutter by those bands, respectively.

[Moon Flavor]

Incessent old school babble

:p


Between the two albums you posted, Dream Theater's Train of Thought is much much better, but it's not very heavy. If you're gonna get a Lamb of God album, get As the Palaces Burn.

If you like Iron Maiden, it'd be a good idea to start looking into power metal. Possibly some Blind Guardian or maybe even (*gasp*) Dragonforce. Actually, a lot of those thrash band Freezing Moon posted are cool, but definitely don't judge the genre by them for sure.

[Eliminator]

hahaha

no, jude. no.

[Moon Flavor]

The only metal bands worth listening to are Opeth, In Flames, Tool, and Rammstein. Get Still Life, Colony, Lateralus and Mutter by those bands, respectively.

Ummm....Rammstein? In Flames? The ONLY bands??? Is this sarcasm or retardism?

[Freezing Moon]

Damnit, why do you all listen to such terrible music?

[Sleepy]

Damnit, why do you all listen to such terrible music?

If you're referring to me, go back to your kvlt in Scandinavia. :mad:

If not, I concur.

[Fuel0262]

If you like that whole 80's metal thing, then you should get into some thrash, not that "hardcore" scene. The new american metal scene is balls.

Check out a few of these...

Running Wild - Gates to Purgatory
Exodus - Bonded By Blood
Slayer - Hell Awaits
Dark Angel - Darkness Descends
Artillery - By Inheritance (I prefer Terror Squad, but this may be a bit easier to get into)
Kreator - Pleasure to Kill
Razor - Evil Invaders

If you want something heavier, maybe go for some old-school death metal.

Morbid Angel - Altars of Madness
Obituary - Cause of Death
Entombed - Left Hand Path
Carcass - Necroticism
Dismember - Like an Ever Flowing Stream
Grave - Into the Grave


edit: Oh, and I may as well mention... If you like Pantera, check out Exhorder - Slaughter in the Vatican. That's the band Pantera ripped off when they changed from their flowery glam metal to groove/thrash metal.

thanks man

[penelope weird hands]

Mastodon - Blood Mountain :thumb:

[Kage]

I agree ^^

[i am the robots]

In Flames - Colony
At The Gates - Slaughter Of The Soul
Children Of Bodom - Follow The Reaper
Avenged Sevenfold - Waking The Fallen

Those are all good starting points for metal.

[Darkness]

How about some Nevermore, Iced Earth, Blind Guardian, Into Eternity, Therion, Wintersun, Bathory, Emperor... bit of everything there.

[Apocalyptic Raids]

Since you mentioned you're into the whole '80s Metal thing, I second everything Freezing Moon mention, except of I would start with Reign In Blood instead of Hell Awaits for Slayer, and you definitely need some of these bands if you're into traditional stuff like Maiden and Savatage:

Judas Priest
Motorhead
Mercyful Fate
Accept
Manowar
Sanctuary
Jag Panzer

enjoy

[ChickenMcFicken]

I would definitely say hardcore and metal are not and should not be combined with a slash. Generally, you don't find people who listen to both I do know a select few who do, including me, but very limited amounts of both). I'm assuming you're going for metal and using hardcore as the adjective, not the genre. I cant really help, just wanted to make sure you clear that up.(metal fans usually don't take to hardcore very kindly so going to the hardcore forums would be a good idea if that's what you're after) Maybe I'm expecting the worst of mx, though. I havent been on here in a while, maybe you'll be flame free for that one, wouldnta when I left.

[Bazarov]

I would definitely say hardcore and metal are not and should not be combined with a slash. Generally, you don't find people who listen to both I do know a select few who do, including me, but very limited amounts of both). I'm assuming you're going for metal and using hardcore as the adjective, not the genre. I cant really help, just wanted to make sure you clear that up.(metal fans usually don't take to hardcore very kindly so going to the hardcore forums would be a good idea if that's what you're after) Maybe I'm expecting the worst of mx, though. I havent been on here in a while, maybe you'll be flame free for that one, wouldnta when I left.

It all depends on the style of hardcore I know quite a bit of metal heads that like the 80's hardcore. Like Toxic Narcotic, Infest, and Siege.

Fuel, if you want some good 80's hardcore I'd definitely check out those bands I just mentioned.

[ChickenMcFicken]

Good point. Didnt even think of that.

[Apocalyptic Raids]

Siege rules.

[i am the robots]

I would definitely say hardcore and metal are not and should not be combined with a slash. Generally, you don't find people who listen to both I do know a select few who do, including me, but very limited amounts of both). I'm assuming you're going for metal and using hardcore as the adjective, not the genre. I cant really help, just wanted to make sure you clear that up.(metal fans usually don't take to hardcore very kindly so going to the hardcore forums would be a good idea if that's what you're after) Maybe I'm expecting the worst of mx, though. I havent been on here in a while, maybe you'll be flame free for that one, wouldnta when I left.

I think it was the whole fact that people don't, for the most part, know what hardcore actually is anymore.

For hardcore, all I can say is Minor Threat, Black Flag, Kill Your Idols, and Bane.

That is all you really need. (Not really)

[Magicaltroll]

Cryptopsy - None So Vile!!!


Seriously, this album made me the metalhead I am today.


It's not for everyone though :(
But if you like Death Metal, with technical as fuc* instrumentation, then you have to have that album. It's amazing.

[Magicaltroll]

I think it was the whole fact that people don't, for the most part, know what hardcore actually is anymore.

For hardcore, all I can say is Minor Threat, Black Flag, Kill Your Idols, and Bane.

That is all you really need. (Not really)

This is kinda off-topic, but...

Do you think that punk is bands like Discharge, old Extreme Noise Terror, and old Brutal Truth? I don't really think Grind when I hear these bands (like alot of people call them, except Discharge), I think Punk.


But then again, everyone says the Ramones, and Dead Kennedies are punk. And the two groups of bands are totally different...


So basically, am I an idiot for thinking this way?

[i am the robots]

There are so many different types of punk, and the only kind I listen to is hardcore and pop-punk, so I don't really know.

Go to the punk forum I say.

[Bazarov]

Siege rules.

CHYA!

[Apocalyptic Raids]

I'll have to check out Infest, though.

Do you think that punk is bands like Discharge, old Extreme Noise Terror, and old Brutal Truth? I don't really think Grind when I hear these bands (like alot of people call them, except Discharge), I think Punk.
Well what is something that makes you think Grind? I consider Extreme Noise Terror and Brutal Truth to be Grind. They are different from modern grind bands, who are far more on the metal side of things.

[Epsilon]

Ah first metal CD, mine was Roadrunner United - The All Star Sessions (Good way to start by the way, has a variety of metal)
Anyways some for you.

Opeth - Ghost Reveries, Blackwater Park, Still Life
In Flames - Come Clarity, Colony
Blind Guardian - A Twist In The Myth
Amon Amarth - Versus The World, With Oden On Our Side
Children Of Bodom - Follow The Reaper, Are You Dead Yet?
Insomnium - In The Halls Of Awaiting, Since The Day It All Came Down
Mercenary - 11 Dreams
Dark Tranquillity - Damage Done
Machine Head - Through The Ashes Of Empires
Swallow The Sun - The Morning Never Came

Nothing better than a big selection right :rolleyes:

[metalhead_matt]

opeth definetly, dream theater are good. check out children of bodom's earlier albums, hatebreeder and follow the reaper are good starting points.
get opeths morningrise and still life albums.

[loathed]

Protest The Hero and Mastodon are very hard to get into, so i dont really think you should start out with them first. Very weird and complex time signature changes are just some traits of it. I personally am finding getting into them a problem.

If you're just starting to get into metal and you like 80s stuff like maiden and priest. I suggest you listen to some melodic metal for a start.

Check out Epilson's list, most of them there are melodic.

[pate]

Ah first metal CD, mine was Roadrunner United - The All Star Sessions (Good way to start by the way, has a variety of metal)
Anyways some for you.

Opeth - Ghost Reveries, Blackwater Park, Still Life
In Flames - Come Clarity, Colony
Blind Guardian - A Twist In The Myth
Amon Amarth - Versus The World, With Oden On Our Side
Children Of Bodom - Follow The Reaper, Are You Dead Yet?
Insomnium - In The Halls Of Awaiting, Since The Day It All Came Down
Mercenary - 11 Dreams
Dark Tranquillity - Damage Done
Machine Head - Through The Ashes Of Empires
Swallow The Sun - The Morning Never Came

Nothing better than a big selection right :rolleyes:

I mean no offense to you whatsoever, but it made me laugh that the beginning of your post referred to the nostalgia of your first metal album, which came out like five months ago. :lol:

Again, no offense intended.

[MrSigma]

i would stick with the 80s metal :thumb:

[Bartender]

This is kinda off-topic, but...

Do you think that punk is bands like Discharge, old Extreme Noise Terror, and old Brutal Truth? I don't really think Grind when I hear these bands (like alot of people call them, except Discharge), I think Punk.


But then again, everyone says the Ramones, and Dead Kennedies are punk. And the two groups of bands are totally different...


So basically, am I an idiot for thinking this way?

Well, punk isn't just a single sound, no more than metal or anything else is.

[Ladyshredder126]

Im an 80s metalhead myself. :chug: I don't know if the genre of these bands are what you're looking for, but I love all of these

Children of Bodom
Killswitch Engage
Bullet For My Valentine
Ill Nino
Trivium
Avenged Sevenfold
The Human Abstract
Dope
Alterbridge

My first 'screamo' album was Lamb of God- Sacrament

[Iron Bars]

My first 'screamo' album was Lamb of God- Sacrament

Screamo? LoG isn't Screamo though I don't know what they are. Screamo is a hardcoreish genre also a sort of Emo I think. Or are the '' thingy's a sort of joke thing?

[Kage]

Well, punk isn't just a single sound, no more than metal or anything else is.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, there are 12 different powerchords.

[Jondur]

Well what is something that makes you think Grind? I consider Extreme Noise Terror and Brutal Truth to be Grind. They are different from modern grind bands, who are far more on the metal side of things.

Exactly. All the old grind bands (Napalm, Nausea, Terrorizer etc) were just 80's UK hardcore (ie Discharge) played faster. ENT especially were really just a Dis-core band. BT were a lot more metal really than the others.

The original poster should listen to Candlemass.

[pate]

:lol: Kage

80s metalhead, but lists all current trendy bands? I call bs.

[Ladyshredder126]

:lol: Kage

80s metalhead, but lists all current trendy bands? I call bs.

These are some of the current bands I like. Which is what he's asking for. If he wanted 80s bands, those are the bands I would list.

I thought screamo meant there were screaming vocals....?

[pate]

Screamo doesn't mean screaming vocals.

[Ladyshredder126]

Elaborate?

[pate]

I was a bull**** term to refer to bands like Thursday and Thrice, who mixed "emo" with screams.

[Ladyshredder126]

Ew. Thanks for the correction then.

[pate]

No problem. Sorry about my previous statement.

[Ladyshredder126]

peace

[Epsilon]

I mean no offense to you whatsoever, but it made me laugh that the beginning of your post referred to the nostalgia of your first metal album, which came out like five months ago. :lol:

Again, no offense intended.

Oh non-taken, It came out about 1 and a half years ago actually, that was when I first got into metal, and i've been metal-head since.

[Magicaltroll]

I'll have to check out Infest, though.


Well what is something that makes you think Grind? I consider Extreme Noise Terror and Brutal Truth to be Grind. They are different from modern grind bands, who are far more on the metal side of things.

When I think Grind, I guess I think of bands like Circle Of Dead Children, Discordance Axis, Misery Index, Nasum.


the early Brutal Truth stuff sounds really punk to me though, because I guess I think Grind should be more metal sounding, if that makes sense. And when I hear really ****ty production, and lyrics about the Government, I think punk.


I know Grind came from Punk, but I guess I think Grind should be more like Death Metal than Punk :/




Sorry if this doesn't make sense.


Well, punk isn't just a single sound, no more than metal or anything else is.

Very, very good point...

[Luc214]

Lamb of God's Ashes Of The Wake was the first metal album I got. I reccomend it.

[Fuel0262]

so im going to check out this stuff
and what about opeth?
iv been hearing some good stuff about them, what type of metal are they?
more towards lamb of god or children of bodom or more towards like, metallica or iron maiden?

[Freezing Moon]

Opeth are about as queer as the come, but I'm sure nearly everyone will tell you otherwise. :-\

[Poofy 666]

so im going to check out this stuff
and what about opeth?
iv been hearing some good stuff about them, what type of metal are they?
more towards lamb of god or children of bodom or more towards like, metallica or iron maiden?

I don't really like Opeth :-\

And if you are just getting into metal, I don't really reccomend them.

Check out Bewitched for good ol' speed/thrash metal

[pate]

Opeth is great, but you have to ignore the Hot Topic-ish kiddies that rave about them, having only heard them on gangbanger's ball.. They are progressive or progressive death, depending on your orientation.

[Poofy 666]

They had a few good songs, but if I want progressive death, I'll take Akercocke's Words that Go Unspoken any day over them.

[i am the robots]

Screamo doesn't mean screaming vocals.

Well screamo generally refers to more grind/metal influenced emo with screaming like Orchid, Saetia, and Circle Takes The Square...

I forgot to mention, The Scars Of Ages by Through The Eyes Of The Dead.... mmmm melodic death metal with non-****ty breakdowns.

[pate]

That's a great album...but Opeth is in my top 2 bands.

Matty: Chill. I told him the media's definition, I don't need a three page dissertation on what it really means.

[i am the robots]

STF SON STF

I BEEN DROPPED KNOWLEGE YEO

but seriously, that TTEOTD album is a good choice imo.

[Fuel0262]

Opeth are about as queer as the come, but I'm sure nearly everyone will tell you otherwise. :-\

oh alright

[CabbageStabbage]

Agalloch. The Mantle.

[Riva]

Er... I would not recommend Agalloch - The Mantle as anyone's first heavy metal album. That's the grossest misrepresentation of the genre ever. :p

[Apocalypticon]

Agalloch. The Mantle.

I second this. Actually any Agalloch album would be perfect. Any metalhead can appreciate their albums.

[Riva]

As much as I love Agalloch, and the folkier side of folk metal, I really do not think someone who is coming from '80s thrash/speed metal is going to appreciate them as much as some early death metal, power metal or thrash.

[Apocalypticon]

I think power metal, atleast if he goes for the good stuff, would be just as hard to get into. Power and Folk metal are really on the outskirts of the metal genre and pretty hard to get into unless you've delved pretty deeply into alot of other. stuff. The thing about Agalloch is that even though some albums are pretty hard to get into others are pretty accessible. I think and album like AATG is really hard to set in a genre and really just an entity to itself, which allows to be appreciated by anyone. An album like Pale Folklore would probably be much harded to get into.

[Riva]

Not if he likes Savatage. If he likes '80s Savatage, he's pretty much primed to be lead down the shining path from Stratovarius to Running Wild to Galloglass to Lost Horizon.

[Apocalypticon]

This is true. But from what he has described that he likes there is such a wide spectrum of stuff that could be listenable and I think if he has the ears to listen to and appreciate Opeth then Agalloch isn't to much of a long shot.

[Freezing Moon]

I appreciate Agalloch and think Opeth is balls. :p

[i am the robots]

oh alright

Nah, check for yourself... FM's tastes are a bit odd... good, but odd... very nitpicky.

[Jude]

Opeth are about as queer as the come, but I'm sure nearly everyone will tell you otherwise. :-\

If by queer you mean creative and not afraid to step outside the bounds of a bland genre and do things to make their music interesting that other metal bands won't, then I'm proud to listen to queer music.


On the other hand you could be referring to Mike's banter between songs at their shows. Guilty as charged.

[Fuel0262]

well ive checked into Running Wild, Exodus, and Exhorder and they're all awesome.

[Fuel0262]

Not if he likes Savatage. If he likes '80s Savatage, he's pretty much primed to be lead down the shining path from Stratovarius to Running Wild to Galloglass to Lost Horizon.

yeah, savatage is one of my favorite bands
and so far im loving Running Wild, its awesome

[Freezing Moon]

Nah, check for yourself... FM's tastes are a bit odd... good, but odd... very nitpicky.

Sorry that I refuse to acknowledge 20 minute songs of repetitive, random, baseless elevator music as anywhere near good. :p

...I know what I like.


Fuel: Glad you like those bands, Running Wild is indeed awesome. What material of theirs have you checked out so far?

[Jude]

Sorry that I refuse to acknowledge 20 minute songs of repetitive, random, baseless elevator music as anywhere near good. :p


Good thing that doesn't remotely describe Opeth then huh?

[Freezing Moon]

Good thing that doesn't remotely describe Opeth then huh?

Actually I found that to be pretty acurate.

[Fuel0262]

Sorry that I refuse to acknowledge 20 minute songs of repetitive, random, baseless elevator music as anywhere near good. :p

...I know what I like.


Fuel: Glad you like those bands, Running Wild is indeed awesome. What material of theirs have you checked out so far?

Ive checked out some stuff from the cd you suggested, like Soldiers of Hell
and ive checked out stuff from Port Royal and The Brotherhood, more specificly, Calico Jack, Pirate Song, and Siberian Winter
thats all i could find, but im going to buy gates to purgatory next time im at the mall or something

[Jude]

Actually I found that to be pretty acurate.

.......they only have one 20 minute song, which is sloppily written even though all its component parts are awesome. Repetetive and random don't come close to describing any of their songs, except for a few of the really early amateurish ones where they sort of slapped riffs together, and the end of Deliverance where they repeat a beat for 3 minutes (but it's a mad sick beat worth repeating). And "baseless elevator music" doesn't make any sense.

I mean it's one thing not to like them. But what you said is pretty much equivalent to me saying I don't like the Beatles because their music is tiresome guitar wankery.

[Freezing Moon]

Ive checked out some stuff from the cd you suggested, like Soldiers of Hell
and ive checked out stuff from Port Royal and The Brotherhood, more specificly, Calico Jack, Pirate Song, and Siberian Winter
thats all i could find, but im going to buy gates to purgatory next time im at the mall or something

You probably won't find it at the mall...

Try amazon.com or something similar.

Here: http://tinyurl.com/y52cnt

You can get it for about $9 new.

[Fuel0262]

You probably won't find it at the mall...

Try amazon.com or something similar.

Here: http://tinyurl.com/y52cnt

You can get it for about $9 new.

yeah
cool, thnx

[Freezing Moon]

.......they only have one 20 minute song, which is sloppily written even though all its component parts are awesome. Repetetive and random don't come close to describing any of their songs, except for a few of the really early amateurish ones where they sort of slapped riffs together, and the end of Deliverance where they repeat a beat for 3 minutes (but it's a mad sick beat worth repeating). And "baseless elevator music" doesn't make any sense.

I mean it's one thing not to like them. But what you said is pretty much equivalent to me saying I don't like the Beatles because their music is tiresome guitar wankery.

I'm sorry, maybe I should have said 10 minutes.

There is no structure of riffs, the way metal should be played. It's incoherent in that sense and in that they throw in random (here's the random part) acoustic riffs where they make no sense. You'll be listening and thing "wait, now what was that middle section for?" If this isn't enough, the vocals make no sense with the music.

It is not death metal, and it's hardly even metal. It's more or less "progressive" in the sense that they put a bunch of completely unconventional and pointless filler riffs together along with some acoustic interludes and change up the vocals from harsh to clean.

Even the guitar solos are extremely boring and unmemorable.

I stand by what I said, I have almost no respect for this band. The one thing they excell at is sounding like "Opeth". You can tell it's them as soon as they come on. However, anything they do that I find even close to impressive, I can find elsewhere done much better.

[GenuineImitation]

I recommend you listen to the following:

Megadeth - Rust in Peace
Orphaned Land - Mabool
Symphony X - The Odyssey
Dream Theater - Train of Thought
Overkill - The Years of Decay
Arch Enemy - Doomsday Machine
At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul
Nile - Annhiliation of the Wicked
Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth
Darkane - Layer of Lies
Testament - Practice What you Preach
Nevermore - This Godless Endeavor, Dreaming Neon Black
King Diamond - Abigail
Nightwish - Wishmaster
Hibria - Defying the Rules
Mercyful Fate - Dont Break The Oath
Kalmah - The Black Waltz, Swampsong

[Magicaltroll]

If by queer you mean creative and not afraid to step outside the bounds of a bland genre and do things to make their music interesting that other metal bands won't, then I'm proud to listen to queer music.


On the other hand you could be referring to Mike's banter between songs at their shows. Guilty as charged.

There's alot of bands that 'step outside genres'.

Opeth isn't that amazing at doing it, though I do love them.

[metalhead_matt]

so im going to check out this stuff
and what about opeth?
iv been hearing some good stuff about them, what type of metal are they?
more towards lamb of god or children of bodom or more towards like, metallica or iron maiden?

opeth are more like metallica out of those bands, but they're totally different. there progressive metal, DEFINETLY check them out.

[Jondur]

Oh goody! An Opeth flame-war! I quite like Opeth but at the same time as enjoying them they simultaneously irritate the hell out of me for their sheer, overblown, pomposity.

Has the original poster checked out Bruce Dickinson's solo stuff? Highly recommended.

[Otherside]

Anyone who calls Opeth progressive metal because of their longer songs and acoustic passage needs to have their head examined.

Same with those that think all metal has to feature, at most, 3 minute songs, all with the standard "verse chorus verse chorus solo chorus end" structure.

[Josh]

Has the original poster checked out Bruce Dickinson's solo stuff? Highly recommended.
i'll second that. The Chemical Wedding has to be one of the best metal albums ever, and Tyranny of Souls just pwns.

[Mr. Ron]

Actually, slayer made me into the metal head I am today, sooooo check out some of their stuff.

[metalhead_matt]

Anyone who calls Opeth progressive metal because of their longer songs and acoustic passage needs to have their head examined.

Same with those that think all metal has to feature, at most, 3 minute songs, all with the standard "verse chorus verse chorus solo chorus end" structure.

are you saying opeth arent prog metal? because they quite obviously are

[pate]

Has the original poster checked out Bruce Dickinson's solo stuff? Highly recommended.

Other than the occasional song, I don't really like his solo stuff.

[Jude]

There is no structure of riffs, the way metal should be played. It's incoherent in that sense and in that they throw in random (here's the random part) acoustic riffs where they make no sense. You'll be listening and thing "wait, now what was that middle section for?" If this isn't enough, the vocals make no sense with the music.
......again none of these make any sense. What the hell does "there is no structure of riffs" mean?
And God help any band that doesn't play "the way metal should be played." Everyone knows music can only be good by following an arbitrary formula.
And the acoustic sections are no more random than anything else any other band does...their music changes over the course of the song. It wouldn't be any less random if they just went from one metal riff to another.
And "the vocals make no sense with the music" wtf? you have to say things that actually mean something, you know.

It is not death metal, and it's hardly even metal.
Oh ok HERE we come on the true reason you don't like them :\

Even the guitar solos are extremely boring and unmemorable.

Or disgustingly awesome, but that's a matter of opinion.

I stand by what I said, I have almost no respect for this band. The one thing they excell at is sounding like "Opeth". You can tell it's them as soon as they come on. However, anything they do that I find even close to impressive, I can find elsewhere done much better.
Well as I said, it's one thing not to like them, but you're attempting to explain why they're bad by saying things that just don't mean anything, like "the vocals don't make sense." How the hell do vocals not make sense?

Anyone who calls Opeth progressive metal because of their longer songs and acoustic passage needs to have their head examined.


Well, anyone who cares about genre hairsplitting enough to care whether someone has called Opeth progressive metal or death metal or whatever is kind of a douche though :\

[Mr. Ron]

I'm sorry, maybe I should have said 10 minutes.

There is no structure of riffs, the way metal should be played. It's incoherent in that sense and in that they throw in random (here's the random part) acoustic riffs where they make no sense. You'll be listening and thing "wait, now what was that middle section for?" If this isn't enough, the vocals make no sense with the music.

It is not death metal, and it's hardly even metal. It's more or less "progressive" in the sense that they put a bunch of completely unconventional and pointless filler riffs together along with some acoustic interludes and change up the vocals from harsh to clean.

Even the guitar solos are extremely boring and unmemorable.

I stand by what I said, I have almost no respect for this band. The one thing they excell at is sounding like "Opeth". You can tell it's them as soon as they come on. However, anything they do that I find even close to impressive, I can find elsewhere done much better.

Explain to me why it's not metal. Or, give me your definition of what metal is, because you're obviously an expert on the subject.

[Jude]

Explain to me why it's not metal. Or, give me your definition of what metal is, because you're obviously an expert on the subject.

Yeah...I could have said too, but I figured arguing about what metal is with someone who uses "not metal" as an insult against a band was pointless.

But go on and explain why Opeth isn't metal, please.

[infinitestrain]

Swedish metal all the way! Opeth, Meshuggah, Soilwork, Arch Enemy, In Flames.

[Otherside]

are you saying opeth arent prog metal? because they quite obviously are

I seriously disagree. Explain to me how Morningrise is progressive.

[BurningSky]

The real question here is..Who cares?

I enjoy listening to Opeth, because I think they are awesome. I love their acoustic passages, the dissonance, the long songs, the vocals, the solos..everything. If Freezing Moon doesn't like it, there is nothing stopping him from just not listening to it...

Now, Opeth is the only metal band that I listen to regularly. I also listen to Symphony X once in a while, but my tastes have mellowed A LOT in the last couple of years. In fact, I think the acoustic passages are the best part of Opeth...

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is; I like Opeth, and I will continue to listen to them no matter what anybody else thinks of them...

[Anglachel]

I care >:|

Opeth are not prog

[ATM]

So tired of genre wars. Anyone else?

[Luc214]

Opeth is great, but you have to ignore the Hot Topic-ish kiddies that rave about them, having only heard them on gangbanger's ball.. They are progressive or progressive death, depending on your orientation.

123

They had a few good songs, but if I want progressive death, I'll take Akercocke's Words that Go Unspoken any day over them.

Akercocke progressive death? AHAHAHA!! More like blackened death.

[Freezing Moon]

......again none of these make any sense. What the hell does "there is no structure of riffs" mean?
And God help any band that doesn't play "the way metal should be played." Everyone knows music can only be good by following an arbitrary formula.
And the acoustic sections are no more random than anything else any other band does...their music changes over the course of the song. It wouldn't be any less random if they just went from one metal riff to another.
And "the vocals make no sense with the music" wtf? you have to say things that actually mean something, you know.

No riff structure doesn't mean anything to you? I mean that the riffs themselves aren't constructed in a way that appeals to my ears. They are just... there. They drag, they're boring, and they make no sense to me. They don't do a thing as far as I'm concerned.

Same with the acoustic sections. Acoustic sections in the middle of a metal song is fine, as long as it is relative to the song or adds to it in some way. It seems like they are just thrown in for the hell of it. The acoustic part finishes and I'm going "what the hell was that for?"


Oh ok HERE we come on the true reason you don't like them :\
Actually, I like more non metal than you'd think.

Well as I said, it's one thing not to like them, but you're attempting to explain why they're bad by saying things that just don't mean anything, like "the vocals don't make sense." How the hell do vocals not make sense?
They don't fit with what's under them. I don't really know how I can explain it better than I have. Probably just sounds that way to my ears.


Anyway, a friend of mine likes Opeth for the exact reasons that I dislike them. He likes meandering repeated riffs and whatever else it is that appeal to Opeth fans, I just don't. I'm sorry if you dislike and don't understand my reasons. I don't understand your's either.

Well, anyone who cares about genre hairsplitting enough to care whether someone has called Opeth progressive metal or death metal or whatever is kind of a douche though :\
But they are just nowhere close to death metal, at all. :-\

It's like calling The Haunted thrash. People seem to think there is some sort of connection where there is none. It's hardly splitting hairs when it's so different.


Explain to me why it's not metal. Or, give me your definition of what metal is, because you're obviously an expert on the subject.
Tell me the song "harvest" is metal. Damnation isn't metal. That type of thing is thrown in all over their albums. Yeah, there's metal bits, and even some decent ones, they're just far too few and far too late to keep me interested in the least.

Besides, like somebody said, I'm not changing anyone's opinion here and I feel I've given quite enough reasons to not like them.

[Mr. Ron]

No riff structure doesn't mean anything to you? I mean that the riffs themselves aren't constructed in a way that appeals to my ears. They are just... there. They drag, they're boring, and they make no sense to me. They don't do a thing as far as I'm concerned.

Same with the acoustic sections. Acoustic sections in the middle of a metal song is fine, as long as it is relative to the song or adds to it in some way. It seems like they are just thrown in for the hell of it. The acoustic part finishes and I'm going "what the hell was that for?"



Actually, I like more non metal than you'd think.


They don't fit with what's under them. I don't really know how I can explain it better than I have. Probably just sounds that way to my ears.


Anyway, a friend of mine likes Opeth for the exact reasons that I dislike them. He likes meandering repeated riffs and whatever else it is that appeal to Opeth fans, I just don't. I'm sorry if you dislike and don't understand my reasons. I don't understand your's either.


But they are just nowhere close to death metal, at all. :-\

It's like calling The Haunted thrash. People seem to think there is some sort of connection where there is none. It's hardly splitting hairs when it's so different.



Tell me the song "harvest" is metal. Damnation isn't metal. That type of thing is thrown in all over their albums. Yeah, there's metal bits, and even some decent ones, they're just far too few and far too late to keep me interested in the least.

Besides, like somebody said, I'm not changing anyone's opinion here and I feel I've given quite enough reasons to not like them.
How much Opeth have you actually heard? Pretty much all of their material is metal, save damnation. Damnation was an experimental album. What do you mean "bits and pieces of metal"???? All of their albums are Metal except damnation! And who says that adding some acoustic/folk elements into your music make sit any less metal? Have you ever heard of folk metal? Tell anyone who listens to folk/viking metal that Drudkh, Aes dana and bands like them aren't metal and you'll be laughed at.

[Freezing Moon]

How much Opeth have you actually heard? Pretty much all of their material is metal, save damnation. Damnation was an experimental album. What do you mean "bits and pieces of metal"???? All of their albums are Metal except damnation! And who says that adding some acoustic/folk elements into your music make sit any less metal? Have you ever heard of folk metal? Tell anyone who listens to folk/viking metal that Drudkh, Aes dana and bands like them aren't metal and you'll be laughed at.

Bleh. I've heard most of their albums, some more than others. I used to be a tool when it came to listening to anything and everything people recommended me.

I know they're metal, I was exagerating a bit. Their "metal" qualities seem very watered down to me. They're there, just very weak and poor.

I'm sure you'll get over me thinking this, because it really shouldn't matter what I think of them if you like the band and I'm tired of explaining myself.

[Mr. Ron]

Bleh. I've heard most of their albums, some more than others. I used to be a tool when it came to listening to anything and everything people recommended me.

I know they're metal, I was exagerating a bit. Their "metal" qualities seem very watered down to me. They're there, just very weak and poor.

I'm sure you'll get over me thinking this, because it really shouldn't matter what I think of them if you like the band and I'm tired of explaining myself.

Trust me, I'm not losing sleep over you not likening them. :p


I just disagree that they are "weak". They have some of the most memorable riffs ever to a lot of people.

Oh well. To each their own.

[halfdeadhippo]

To threadstarter: get Overkill's The Years of Decay and prepare to have your skull krushed.

To Tyler: We don't care what you say. **** you. :thumb:

[Apocalypticon]

To threadstarter: get Overkill's The Years of Decay and prepare to have your skull krushed.

To Tyler: We don't care what you say. **** you. :thumb:

No way if he is gonna go with any Overkill album he has to go with Feel the Fire. It is the original thrashterpiece.

[Freezing Moon]

To Tyler: We don't care what you say. **** you. :thumb:

Yes, I know. I'm not sure why I went into it. Should have said they sucked and left it at that.

[halfdeadhippo]

No way if he is gonna go with any Overkill album he has to go with Feel the Fire. It is the original thrashterpiece.
Ok, I might concede that.
Yes, I know. I'm not sure why I went into it. Should have said they sucked and left it at that.Yeah, probably. I just wanted an excuse to quote that song, though.

[Jude]

No riff structure doesn't mean anything to you? I mean that the riffs themselves aren't constructed in a way that appeals to my ears. They are just... there. They drag, they're boring, and they make no sense to me. They don't do a thing as far as I'm concerned.

Wait so how does the subjective "I don't like how their riffs sound" turn into the objective and nonsensical "there is no riff structure"

Same with the acoustic sections. Acoustic sections in the middle of a metal song is fine, as long as it is relative to the song or adds to it in some way. It seems like they are just thrown in for the hell of it. The acoustic part finishes and I'm going "what the hell was that for?"
...and they leave most people going "damn, that sounded good." What's your point?




They don't fit with what's under them. I don't really know how I can explain it better than I have. Probably just sounds that way to my ears.
So again how does subjective "I don't like the vocals" turn into "this music is bad because it 'doesn't make sense'"


Anyway, a friend of mine likes Opeth for the exact reasons that I dislike them. He likes meandering repeated riffs and whatever else it is that appeal to Opeth fans, I just don't. I'm sorry if you dislike and don't understand my reasons. I don't understand your's either.
I'm nto trying to understand your reasons for not liking Opeth. I'm objecting to the nonsensical reasons you are trying to make up why they are objectively bad.


But they are just nowhere close to death metal, at all. :-\
They're actually really close to death metal, but I don't give a **** about that. I just call them metal and that's that.



Tell me the song "harvest" is metal. Damnation isn't metal. That type of thing is thrown in all over their albums. Yeah, there's metal bits, and even some decent ones, they're just far too few and far too late to keep me interested in the least.
Metal bits?
Probably ~65 to 75 % of their albums' running times consist of the metal parts...

And who cares if it wasn't that way? A band doesn't have to be metal to be good.

[Apocalypticon]

Just drop this it is a stupid arguement and no one cares what so ever.

[Bartender]

Wait so how does the subjective "I don't like how their riffs sound" turn into the objective and nonsensical "there is no riff structure"

So again how does subjective "I don't like the vocals" turn into "this music is bad because it 'doesn't make sense'"

I'm objecting to the nonsensical reasons you are trying to make up why they are objectively bad.

Why not just be sensible? Putting "it is my opinion that" in front of any subjective statement would be time-consuming and pointless because everyone already knows, and should be able to infer, that what you're saying is your opinion. You're doing the same thing.

[Freezing Moon]

I'm nto trying to understand your reasons for not liking Opeth. I'm objecting to the nonsensical reasons you are trying to make up why they are objectively bad.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know I'm not changing any opinions. Maybe you missed the part where I stated I should have mentioned they suck and dropped it.

I'm obviously not changing your opinion, and you're certainly not changing mine in the least.

Like Bartender pointed out, it's blatantly obvious that it's my opinion. Just because I find it random, don't think the vocals work with the music, don't like the seemingly pointless acoustic interludes doesn't mean that you or anyone else can't. I'm not making up reasons for everyone to hate them, I'm explaining why I don't like them.

In any case, I'm very sorry that you care enough about my opinion or apparently void reasoning to continue to post about beyond this thread (the opeth thread).

[Luc214]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know I'm not changing any opinions. Maybe you missed the part where I stated I should have mentioned they suck and dropped it.

I'm obviously not changing your opinion, and you're certainly not changing mine in the least.

Like Bartender pointed out, it's blatantly obvious that it's my opinion. Just because I find it random, don't think the vocals work with the music, don't like the seemingly pointless acoustic interludes doesn't mean that you or anyone else can't. I'm not making up reasons for everyone to hate them, I'm explaining why I don't like them.

In any case, I'm very sorry that you care enough about my opinion or apparently void reasoning to continue to post about beyond this thread (the opeth thread).

Do you like bands like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum or Carnival in Coal? Or any avantgarde? Because that music is really random, not Opeth.

[Bartender]

Actually they're probably really the opposite of random. If Led Zeppelin, when writing "Stairway to Heaven", had rolled three regular dice to determine when the solo would come in, then the music in Stairway To Heaven would be random. Whether the sounds themselves are 'avant garde' or whatever you want to call it makes no difference.

[Kage]

Why not just be sensible? Putting "it is my opinion that" in front of any subjective statement would be time-consuming and pointless because everyone already knows, and should be able to infer, that what you're saying is your opinion. You're doing the same thing.

That's a big problem with a lot of people for some reason. They get all offended and act like you're trying to state fact just because you don't say "it is my opinion that" in front of everything.

When you're talking about music, EVERYTHING is subjective. Period.

And if you're talking about music theory, then you're just a loser.

[Toaster]

We have this argument way too much in R&M.

[Kage]

And a good time is had by all.

[Apocalypticon]

Especially for those who have absolutely nothing to do with it :cool:

[eighty d]

Why not just be sensible? Putting "it is my opinion that" in front of any subjective statement would be time-consuming and pointless because everyone already knows, and should be able to infer, that what you're saying is your opinion. You're doing the same thing.

Plus, one of the first thing's they'll teach you in any writing class is that saying "in my opinion" is the best way to weaken your arguments. As much as I disagree with Freezing Moon here (and believe me, I do), adding anything about opinion wouldn't have helped.

I didn't read the thread especially thoroughly, but I don't remember seeing a Nevermore recommendation. I'd suggest

Nevermore - This Godless Endeavor
Nevermore - Dead Heart in a Dead World

[Toaster]

We've been over it soo many times. It's just pointless.

OH sry I mean I THINK it's just pointless.

[Apocalypticon]

Plus, one of the first thing's they'll teach you in any writing class is that saying "in my opinion" is the best way to weaken your arguments. As much as I disagree with Freezing Moon here (and believe me, I do), adding anything about opinion wouldn't have helped.

I didn't read the thread especially thoroughly, but I don't remember seeing a Nevermore recommendation. I'd suggest

Nevermore - This Godless Endeavor
Nevermore - Dead Heart in a Dead World

Good suggestion, although I would swap this Godless Endeavour for Dreaming Neon Black.

[Freezing Moon]

Do you like bands like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum or Carnival in Coal? Or any avantgarde? Because that music is really random, not Opeth.

No. I don't mind things that are "avant-garde" but if it's random, spastic, alternating between completely irrelevant genres, ultra technical, and in general music for ADD kids, I can't stand it.

Also, I'm wondering if people even saw the "80's metal" statement in the first post, because nearly everyone has ignored it.

[BurningSky]

If you want some true randomness, check out free jazz. Eric Dolphy is ridiculously awesome, but also completely random...

[Kage]

Random is a bad word because free jazz can be some of the most expressive, spontaneous and interesting music around. Random is hardly a good word to call it, even if it seems that way in retrospect.

Dolphy is also not that great an example of free jazz.

[Jude]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know I'm not changing any opinions. Maybe you missed the part where I stated I should have mentioned they suck and dropped it.



I never had a problem with your opinions. But you were saying stuff that either wasn't true, or didn't make any sense, and I was calling you on it.

Discussing music is what these forums are for.

[Nostalgia]

But perpetuating arguments which will result in no point are not.

[Freezing Moon]

I never had a problem with your opinions. But you were saying stuff that either wasn't true, or didn't make any sense, and I was calling you on it.

Discussing music is what these forums are for.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9693/gayopethan4zd0.jpg

[Jude]

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9693/gayopethan4zd0.jpg

:lol:

There's some gems in this thread http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230166

[Scuba_Steve]

TS, dont listen to opeth.

not yet anyway, they could most likely put you off of metal if you arent ready for them.


Find some Municipal Waste, and smash **** till you pass out

[pate]

:lol:

There's some gems in this thread

Photoshopeth FTW. I made some crappy ones a few months ago.

[i am the robots]

Sorry that I refuse to acknowledge 20 minute songs of repetitive, random, baseless elevator music as anywhere near good. :p

...I know what I like.

I'm gonna handle this a bit differently than Jude.

You're being a douchebag by insulting the music with only the basis that you don't like it.

[Poofy 666]

TS, dont listen to opeth.

not yet anyway, they could most likely put you off of metal if you arent ready for them.


Find some Municipal Waste, and smash **** till you pass out

Listen to this man

[Jude]

I'm gonna handle this a bit differently than Jude.

You're being a douchebag by insulting the music with only the basis that you don't like it.

Well yeah, this is also true.

I think Slayer sounds like ****, but I can't make an objective judgment that they're "bad music."

TS, dont listen to opeth.

not yet anyway, they could most likely put you off of metal if you arent ready for them.
Opeth sort of got me into metal. I don't listen to hardly any metal, but before them I didn't listen to ANY. Everyone'll react differently.

[132WalrusesInMexico]

TS, dont listen to opeth.

not yet anyway, they could most likely put you off of metal if you arent ready for them.


Find some Municipal Waste, and smash **** till you pass out
Opeth is the band that got me into metal.

[Kage]

I think Slayer sounds like ****, but I can't make an objective judgment that they're "bad music."

Yeah, let me do it. Slayer is bad music.

[Freezing Moon]

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22023

[Toaster]

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22023

MA forums do not mean anything. Period.

[fuzzyhair]

Ashes of the wake is good.

Miasma by The Black Dahlia Murder
or
Unhallowed by The Black Dahlia Murder

Dream Theater is amazing as well. Check 'em out.

[Jude]

Yeah, let me do it. Slayer is bad music.

:lol:

Well I'd agree, but I'd be a hypocrite if I said that as a fact.

And I haven't listened to them enough to give actual concrete reasons why I think their music is bad, since I can't stand to listen to one of their songs all the way through. I just say I hate them and leave it at that.

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22023

Is that thread supposed to prove something other than that a lot of idiots hate Opeth and a lot of idiots like them too?


Oh, I loved this post:
I've heard more classical guitar in a run-of-the mill tech-death band than I've ever heard in Opeth.

Opeth isn't boring because it's long, it's boring because it's dull and completely uninspired. However, I do enjoy the drumming, although now that Lopez left, I really can't see any reason for me to continue listening to them.

More blatant errors in your post:
-There is no Death Metal in any Opeth song. Well, maybe pieces of Orchid and Morningrise, but no others.
-"Maybe your attention spans will one day be able to tolerate songs longer than 6 min." I listen (daily) to Wagner. His compositions can stretch for as long as 9hrs+. I still find Opeth deathly boring. Why is that?
-Dream Theater is wank-prog. ie, they aren't "tr00bie" prog like, say, Fates Warning or Shadow Gallery. Please don't use them as "the only known prog band."

Additional Opeth insights:
-Every single Opeth riff is the same. Perhaps a note change here and there, but in the end, there really is no difference.
-They don't ever play fast because they CAN'T play fast. I'm certain that most of these "musicians" couldn't play much of anything else.
-Ak's harsh vocals are electronically done. There's no real voice in there.
-His cleans are midranged and simplistic.
-The music in neither complicated nor layered. Opeth's "pieces" are essentially drawn out MTV songs. (note: I could pull out the "experience card" here, but I won't. Suffice it to say, I know what I'm talking about).
I'm tempted to put a "QED" here, but I won't do that either.
I didn't bother reading the rest of the thread to see, but I'm sure a bunch of people took him seriously and got all pissed about it (or agreed with him)

[Knifeboy]

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22023

... They called Opeth "emo".. Wich by default makes every single MA users opinion void

[Jude]

... They called Opeth "emo".. Wich by default makes every single MA users opinion void

:lol:
I love those metalheads where they hear anything that's not about mutilating Christians and they call it emo.

[Knifeboy]

Oh man.. that post was almost painfull to read

Apparently vocals recorded in a studio == electronically done

[Freezing Moon]

I figured you guys would like it.

[Jude]

Oh man.. that post was almost painfull to read

Apparently vocals recorded in a studio == electronically done

Erhrhrruhhhh..........I'm 96% sure he was being sarcastic...

[Knifeboy]

no.... look at his posts in the thread prior to that

[metalhead_matt]

I seriously disagree. Explain to me how Morningrise is progressive.

well yeah thats fair enough. but then is The Moor not progressive? that's not on the morningrise album (or is there a band called morningrise you're referring to lol)

[Jude]

no.... look at his posts in the thread prior to that

No way man...just read this

-Every single Opeth riff is the same. Perhaps a note change here and there, but in the end, there really is no difference.
Not even the stupidest net-denizen alive could post that seriously.

[Knifeboy]

You must be new to the internet

[i am the robots]

I figured you guys would like it.

So many lols.

I lost all faith in Metal Archives when the same guy praised Ildjarn, and was serious.

That, and nearly every band formed past 2003 in the Western Hemisphere is _____ metal/metalcore.

[metalhead_matt]

how the **** are Opeth emo lol lol lol

[Jude]

how the **** are Opeth emo lol lol lol

They mention emotions instead of just singing about mutilating Christians and rotting fetuses

[RockGuitarist501]

Trivium - Acendency :cool:

i really liked that one.

[metalhead_matt]

They mention emotions instead of just singing about mutilating Christians and rotting fetuses

lol and they dont wear face paint and spikes :eek:

[metalhead_matt]

Trivium - Acendency :cool:

i really liked that one.

whats the new album like? Im not a big Trivium fan, I just like the obvious song coz its catchy :p a bit.

[infinitestrain]

Go with Opeth man. Blackwater Park to be exact.

[VomitStainedCretin]

whats the new album like? Im not a big Trivium fan, I just like the obvious song coz its catchy :p a bit.

Im on the fence on the Crusade - Im not a retarded "WOW TRIVIUM R TEH METAL" fanboy but Im not joining the hate campaign launched in response by the anti-Trivium faction. Its not as good as Ascendency methinks, but its enjoyable and catchy in parts. BUT, why(!) did they do the retarded "woah-oh" "yeah" chanting sh1t in the Anthem? It makes the song practically unlistenable (which is a shame, as the solo is very good). Also, theres a couple of other tracks which are also super-gorgonzola sh1t cheesy, i.e. This World Cant Tear Us Apart and The Rising (although at least the formerhas a couple of enjoyable riffs, whereas the latter is just very, very, very BAD).

[Sleepy]

:lol: @ Trivium

That, and nearly every band formed past 2003 in the Western Hemisphere is _____ metal/metalcore.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much true.

[Rory91]

Lamb of God-Ashes of the wake + Mastodon-Blood Mountain!!!

[Fuel0262]

They mention emotions instead of just singing about mutilating Christians and rotting fetuses

lmao
that would make a good quote

[Apocalypticon]

Lamb of God-Ashes of the wake + Mastodon-Blood Mountain!!!

hahaha, those are albums hes supposed to avoid silly.

[Moses]

Check out my album.

[slaughteredfirst]

Check out Behemoths Demigod

Hypocrisy-Warpath

Zyklon-Distintigrate