Everlone - Crit if the mood takes ya

[Crowley5150]

Okay guys, its been AGES since ive been on this list but I thought I'd drag out a song I co-wrote in the band I was in a while back. I recently dragged out the rough tapes we made as we were writing it and I really enjoyed the song enough to want people to read the lyrics (and to utilise my new Pro Tools/MBox purchase and actually record some stuff).

If anyone would like to take a look and let me know what you think, it'd be muchly appreciated.

Everlone
--------

I will drown in your hourglass
cos i just need a little laughing gas
Been too long sitting by the road
A faded sign reading 'Everlone'
A glass half full is still going down
Another time i would hit the ground
Snowblind nights i must hesitate
A lucid moment isn't all that great

How many more times will this be the last?
(Time and Time Again)
How many reasons forgetting the past?
(when it seems my only friend)
How can I wake up this time?

Never thought I could understand
Flows like water, feels like shifting sand
Another time seems so far away
Distant thoughts never seem the same

How many more times will this be the last?
(Time and Time Again)
How many reasons forgetting the past?
(when it seems my only friend)
How can I wake up this time?

I will drown in your hourglass
cos i just need a little laughing gas
Been too long sitting by the road
A faded sign reading 'Everlone'
(Faded Sign Reading.....)

(The last 2 lines here keep repeating - the harmony vocal splits off and sings the bracketed line between repeats of the main line, and both are repeated til a fade)

----------

Thanks a bunch!

[TheBigMachine]

The rhyme structure stiffens the song ever so much. The good lines are obvious, but then they're often killed with an out of place rhyme.
Lose the structure. It's holding your song back lyrically. It doesn't have to rhyme to be catchy or whatever your aiming for. In fact, I find less frequent but better rhymes are always better than a constant rhyme structure.

Content wise, it's pretty regular stuff. That said, you do have a solid grasp on simile and metaphor, and you can easily explore that further, if you'd just drop the structure.

So yeah. That's my two cents. I hope you get something.

[Crowley5150]

Thanks for your words, and thoughts on the song. I guess I'm hearing what you are saying, but its a bizarre thing I've found on this particular forum is that it seems more and more "Words & Poetry" than "Songwriting & Lyrics" that is the praised form.

Its a strange thing because, even years ago when I used to read and post, I'd read peoples posts to this forum and their lyrics were very "song" oriented in their structure, and had rhymes and all those seemingly "regular" stuff. Those posts were always yawned at by the more affluent posters on the list, and I'd look at it thinking "man, whats wrong with having a regular structure, or using rhyme to create an audible hook.

All the posts I read in here which get praise (to me anyway) are more just pieces of poetry being critiqued rather than something which can be usable in "Song" form. Isnt ths concept of this part of the forums to talk about Lyrics and Songwriting, not just lines and verses of poetry which will probably always stay as written word?

Having said that, I'm not sitting here in an angry defensive mode because you bagged my song, and I do take what you said on board, its just something i've noticed and its always confused me about this part of the forum. Audio Arena, which to me should be the extension of this list, but the 2 forums are worlds apart in the way they critique, and what is considered "good" practices and not.

Just my own 1.54c's worth (USD->AUD Exchange rate and all) on the list in general.

[SixStringKing]

Kudos on the rant my friend. but you have to realize the majority of writers in here are very young.. and dont have much appreciation for a good lyric song wise. because being young, they do get bored easy.. and yes it inhibits their ability to look at a song as a song. but the again you have a select few who actually know what they are talking about, and the only reason that their writing is not particularly "SONGY" to you is because the music they listen to is F***ed up weird S***. like pixies and stuff...

[TheBigMachine]

You obviously need to say more, as to make 2 cents.

because you bagged my song

I didnt bag your song, I tried to help you.

, and I'd look at it thinking "man, whats wrong with having a regular structure, or using rhyme to create an audible hook.


Nothing is wrong with using rhyme to creat an audible hook. But it's simply easier to do that without having each couplet rhyme. As for structure...poetry - or lyrics, whichever you prefer - is easier without structure.

All the posts I read in here which get praise (to me anyway) are more just pieces of poetry being critiqued rather than something which can be usable in "Song" form. Isnt ths concept of this part of the forums to talk about Lyrics and Songwriting, not just lines and verses of poetry which will probably always stay as written word?

I think you'll find that most of these written word pieces could in fact be put in song if you know how you want to do it. Some you really cannot see - true. But most are perfectly eligible. Simply becaue they may not fit a generic style or genre, doesn't mean they can't be utilised as song. Also, the point of the board is to share your writing with everyone else, be it lyrics or poetry(though, I dont really think there's all that much difference - but don't get S&L started on that one).

So ya. Times change man.

[slack]

Thanks for your words, and thoughts on the song. I guess I'm hearing what you are saying, but its a bizarre thing I've found on this particular forum is that it seems more and more "Words & Poetry" than "Songwriting & Lyrics" that is the praised form.

Its a strange thing because, even years ago when I used to read and post, I'd read peoples posts to this forum and their lyrics were very "song" oriented in their structure, and had rhymes and all those seemingly "regular" stuff. Those posts were always yawned at by the more affluent posters on the list, and I'd look at it thinking "man, whats wrong with having a regular structure, or using rhyme to create an audible hook.

All the posts I read in here which get praise (to me anyway) are more just pieces of poetry being critiqued rather than something which can be usable in "Song" form. Isnt ths concept of this part of the forums to talk about Lyrics and Songwriting, not just lines and verses of poetry which will probably always stay as written word?

Having said that, I'm not sitting here in an angry defensive mode because you bagged my song, and I do take what you said on board, its just something i've noticed and its always confused me about this part of the forum. Audio Arena, which to me should be the extension of this list, but the 2 forums are worlds apart in the way they critique, and what is considered "good" practices and not.

Just my own 1.54c's worth (USD->AUD Exchange rate and all) on the list in general.I agree with both you and BigMachine to an extent. There are some lines in your song that don't make a lot of sense, like the first two (hourglass/laughing gas), which suggests that the rhyme is forced. BigMachine's advice to ditch the structure is good advice if you find yourself writing around the rhyme, instead of just doing it naturally. It's a way of getting out of a box and exploring new ideas/styles. You seem to be a capable writer, though, because this piece isn't half bad. So I would just take whatever advice you get on board, and use it or discard it however you'd like.

There is nothing wrong with structure, or using rhyme to create a hook. Plenty of writers around here do it all the time, and most get some kind of feedback. And as SixString pointed out, a lot of the regulars have a very wide taste in music, and the lyrics from those bands sometimes hardly ever rhyme, or have structure.

I agree with you about Audio Arena being grouped in with S&L, but only if it was as a subforum, like the Lyrical Challenges. I personally don't want to have to sift through countless MY BANDS NEW SONG threads to find some lyrics.

[Crowley5150]

BigMachine : Firstly I should've been more obvious in my statement about "bagging my song" as I was saying it as a "I'm not saying this" kind of way. I never meant you bagged the song at all, and like I said in the initial reply, I thank you for taking the time to give me your opinions and I do take everything on board. I was just making a general statement about crits, likes and dislikes on this list.

Slack : I understand what BigMachine was saying, and what you were reiterating. A lyric as a read piece often seems forced and restricted when you use a common form and rhymes (forced or not). Thats something which can not be avoided when you are simply reading a lyric. However when a song is listened to, and taken in in full context with the music, melody and performance, (I find anyway) that the structure and rhymes become a positive part of the song instead of a perceived negative component because its only being read.

And as for the whole "My Bands New Song" comment of Audio Arena, I guess thats where we differ on why we like different forums more. I like Audio Arena because I'm interested in the big picture. The lyrical content is a part of the overall concept. I like checking out the completed works and hearing peoples interpetations and their songwriting abilities, not just in the lyrics they sing, but the musical arrangements they put to it.

So to anyone who thought I came across annoyed and defensive, I wasnt being that at all and I do take all criticisms contructively, I was just making a general comment on the state of this particular forum over another.

[FunknPunk]

Everlone
--------

I will drown in your hourglass
cos i just need a little laughing gas
Been too long sitting by the road
A faded sign reading 'Everlone'
A glass half full is still going down
Another time i would hit the ground
Snowblind nights i must hesitate
A lucid moment isn't all that great

i'm not sure exactly what you mean by linking "hourglass" and "laughing gas. I love the rhyme, though! I just think that you might do well to think it over a little bit more. Are you saying that "I" takes sadistic pleasure in slowly drwoning and eventually dying (implied)? Laughing gas itself is a strange thing: a chemical which causes you to laugh?

I like the country-bluesy "Been too long sitting by the road/A faded sign reading 'Everlone'". the imagery is quite good. being the half-yank i am, i immediately think woody guthrie on the side of the road hitching a ride. I also immediately think dry desert sun and desert. Alas! My image is revoked! A snowstorm? Funky. MAybe try to hint at the idea of winter before the sitting by the road. Unless you're going for ambiguity and mystery.

Backtracking a bit: "A glass half full is still going down/Another time i would hit the ground" this sounds a bit awkward in my head at least. down and ground almost never make good rhymes. a cliche, i'm afraid.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, please don't rhyme Great and Hesitate: it sound WAY too forced. ESPECIALLY at the end of the first verse? that's going to be the last thing that the audience hears before the next verse. It will possibly leave the nerdy lyric analysers (like me) in the audience going "aw. thats weak."

How many more times will this be the last?
(Time and Time Again)
How many reasons forgetting the past?
(when it seems my only friend)
How can I wake up this time?

i like the idea that the subject has seen this happen more than once (in fact many times). it adds a certain helplessness to the song. you may want to work on "How many reasons forgetting the past."

Never thought I could understand
Flows like water, feels like shifting sand
Another time seems so far away
Distant thoughts never seem the same

I like! However, for flow's sake: erase the "shifting" part of "flows like water ,feels like shifting sand" Which is better, flow wise:

Never thought i could understand
flows like water, feels like shifting sand

or

Never thought i could understand
flows like water, feels like sand [if you wre stuck on the shifting idea, you could even put "shifts like sand" instead of "feels". But i personally like the repetition of F's.

How many more times will this be the last?
(Time and Time Again)
How many reasons forgetting the past?
(when it seems my only friend)
How can I wake up this time?

oh it's the chorus again. see above.

I will drown in your hourglass
cos i just need a little laughing gas
Been too long sitting by the road
A faded sign reading 'Everlone'
(Faded Sign Reading.....)

repeated again. okay. see above, again.

This could be quite a good piece. i feel, like my colleagues, that it is a BIT too rhythmically bound: or at least for the ideas you are trying to say and the (unintentional?) badly metricated lines. I would work on tightening that up a bit. Also, make sure that the reader/listener has a clear sense of the metaphor. else you end up with neo-impressionistic musings. There certainly is a place for NImusings.. i don;t feel that your piece should contain them. Your piece is telling a story. the listener wants to follow along.

(i don't give out numbers)

[Crowley5150]

The whole "hourglass" concept was based around a time when too much excessive boozing and negativity was abound. The hourglass is simply a metaphor for the glass containing the liquid of choice, and the hourglass reference being time wasting away. The laughing gas part is just a reference to the reasons for the excesses in the first place.... looking either for something better, or to make something worse go away (even temporarily)

I totally agree with you regarding the structure of the "Shifting Sands" line as you read the lyrics, not knowing the vocal performance of the song. Strangely enough, it really fits well into that phrase (if I had a better recording, I would capture that snippet and post it for reference. Unfortunatly, the only recording we have of it was the day we completed the chorus writing and did a couple of quick live run throughs, just the singer and his guitar, and my acoustic bass.

The "sitting by the road", and eventual title line "Everlone", is a reference to being a spectator rather than a punter in life. Everlone is a small tribute (of sorts) to both mine and the singers favourite songwriter.... Ginger from The Wildhearts... and the line just seemed to fit perfectly into this song.


Anyway, thanks for the obvious deep thought you put into it. I hope to get my new Pro Tools happening, sequence up some drum tracks and actually do a decent recording of this soon.