Live Recording

[Dougdady]

The past several weekends I've been practicing with a band and I would really like to get some recordings of what we've been doing, but I feel like a studio setting would be really difficult for us right now because for the most part we don't have too many set songs.

I want to be able to get some live recording gear in there, and I'm wondering what people would think is the best idea? I'm thinking that I will probably be buying a new Apple labtop soon for school, so I guess Logic would be the software I'd want to use. To record all of this at once, and to just get a decent sound, what would you think my best route is to approach this problem.

I talked to a friend that works at the music store in town and he said I should use like five mics on just the drumset. I'm really not looking forward to paying for all this gear if I'm going to need five mics just for the drumset, but if that's the only way to sound decent, then I guess I will have to take care of it. Then one mic for each guitar amp and the bass amp, and the vocals. So am I looking at needing at least 8 mics to get a decent sound?

And another thing, would it be easier to just hook up the amps into a mixer board, and record from that? I really have no idea. I guess it would be easier to use a mixer board and cheaper I bet? Would all the inputs be in one line output to connect to the audio interface on the labtop? That would make things easier.

I really have no idea what I'm talking about, though. Tell me what I absolutely need to record a live session and have it sound presentable to someone enough so that they get a feel for the sound and would want to come hear it in person. Assuming that the actual playing is up to quality with the recording.

[Moseph]

Define "decent." It's very vague. Do you want this to be a simple capture to help songwriting? Do you want to use it as a demo to get gigs? Do you want to sell it as a finished disc? Those all have different emphases.

[mullets suk]

Apple comps should come with "garage band" a recording program already. if not audicity(sp?) is a good one thats free and takes a secound to install.

as for drums best/cheapist way would be have a kick snare and one over head.

[Dougdady]

Well I want the recording to be good enough that I could give them to people and they would be able to really hear what it is we are doing. I don't intend to sell the recordings, making money is the last thing I'm thinking about right now. But if the recording sounds good enough that someone would say, I want to hear more of this, or else, wow these guys really are terrible but the sound quality lets me hear that terribleness very accurately, then this is the level of sound quality I am looking for. I guess that might not be any help.

I suppose to answer your question moseph, both to aide in songwriting and to get gigs, but I think to get good enough sound quality to aide in songwriting you could just throw like two mics in the room and say go. So definately more along the lines of landing gigs.

But maybe someone has some experience in this regard. We would like to be able to get to the point of having live recordings in the tradition of the grateful dead, the allman brothers, etc etc, that sound great (at least to me) and have the live experience.

Anyone with experience on Garageband vs. Logic Express care to explain just how significant the difference is when using these two programs? I want to know if it's essential that I upgrade to at least Logic Express right away. Right now I'm thinking it's more important to get some decent mics and the right hardware to pull this off and down the line upgrade the software.

Am I right in placing the hardware > software on the recording heirarchy or is that all wrong?

When you say kick snare and overhead, I take it you mean I will need a mic on the kick, on the snare, and overhead? And then, what is a good (read: economical) kick mic to use? I've just bought two sm57's, and our vocalist has a nice mic, so I figure it might just make sense to throw down on a drum mic kit?



Now, hypothetically speaking, down the road we've got the drum set mic'd with at least three mics, one on the bass amp and one each on the two guitar amps. If we run all these mics through a mixer, will that give us an output to run straight into a mobile pre/audio interface or will I need to get a new interface with like eight inputs?

I appreciate any advice you guys have got. Thanks :thumb:

[Seafroggys]

A good bass drum mic is the Shure Beta 52 or the AKG 211

[pitchfork]

I swear by the AKG D112 on kick
I would also say go for 2 small diaphragm condesers or if you have to use one a large diaphragm condensor as overhead.
on snare its gotta be an sm57 all the time

Oh and you can probably run a mixer into your interface the only problem with live recording with a mixer is its a pain in the arse to master.

[Dougdady]

I've got time to work on the craft, no big deal. And mastering it may not be neccesary anyways. Just want to be able to spread the word. Thanks again for everyone who has offered advice.

for the overheads, are there any particular mics you would recomend? Something like the Shure Sm98? Cardiod Condenser is not what I am looking for using overheads right?

[pitchfork]

Nah you'll want small diaphragm condensors.
Idealy SM81's but seeing as they are about 350 quid a pop.
Beta 81's or AKG C1000's would be good as overheads.

If you aren't serious about recording SM57's would do.

[Moseph]

Well I want the recording to be good enough that I could give them to people and they would be able to really hear what it is we are doing. I don't intend to sell the recordings, making money is the last thing I'm thinking about right now. But if the recording sounds good enough that someone would say, I want to hear more of this, or else, wow these guys really are terrible but the sound quality lets me hear that terribleness very accurately, then this is the level of sound quality I am looking for. I guess that might not be any help.

Then you might want to aim for an all-out home studio. Start small though, and pick things up as you go. A mixer and a few mics will be enough to get you going at first.

But maybe someone has some experience in this regard. We would like to be able to get to the point of having live recordings in the tradition of the grateful dead, the allman brothers, etc etc, that sound great (at least to me) and have the live experience.

You aren't going to achieve that right away. For one thing, those were done by experienced audio professionals. Also, they were likely using better gear than you'll be starting out with. There's a reason they sound good. Get the fundamentals down and just keep working at it. You'll get it to sound good with practice.

Anyone with experience on Garageband vs. Logic Express care to explain just how significant the difference is when using these two programs? I want to know if it's essential that I upgrade to at least Logic Express right away. Right now I'm thinking it's more important to get some decent mics and the right hardware to pull this off and down the line upgrade the software.

Am I right in placing the hardware > software on the recording heirarchy or is that all wrong?

You're pretty much correct. Multi-channel software is cheaper (oftentimes freeware) and typically less influential on the overall sound than multi-channel hardware. Start with the most important parts of the chain first, and get them to sound good. The most important thing (in terms of capturing, not necessarily for mixing and editing) is the microphones, then probably the preamps, and then whatever converters you're using to get it down to a digital file. As for the Logic Express upgrade, it's smart to learn a software as much as you can right away, but you should probably spend your money on mics right now. The key difference between Garageband and Logic is that Logic is designed for professionals (or semi-professionals), whereas Garageband is designed for everyone, including hobbyists and 10 year old kids just goofing around. That basically means the feature sets will be considerably different. So long as you can record a stereo track (ie, the mixer output), you probably shouldn't care right now.

When you say kick snare and overhead, I take it you mean I will need a mic on the kick, on the snare, and overhead? And then, what is a good (read: economical) kick mic to use? I've just bought two sm57's, and our vocalist has a nice mic, so I figure it might just make sense to throw down on a drum mic kit?

If you purchase a good drum mic, and get a DI for the bass, you'll probably fine to do a whole band at this point. Audix, AKG, and Shure make good intro sets for drum mics if you're interested. You don't need to use the mics for their only intended purpose either: I've used tom mics to record trumpet and was happy with the results.

Now, hypothetically speaking, down the road we've got the drum set mic'd with at least three mics, one on the bass amp and one each on the two guitar amps. If we run all these mics through a mixer, will that give us an output to run straight into a mobile pre/audio interface or will I need to get a new interface with like eight inputs?

No. The point of the mixer is to take 8 inputs and produce one stereo (ie, 2-channel) output. If you get an interface with 8 inputs, and you need 8 or less inputs, you don't need the mixer at all. In fact, this is probably more desirable, as the inputs are discrete, meaning you can mix things on the computer later. Using the mixer outputs won't get you this ability.

[The Chemist]

Nah you'll want small diaphragm condensors.
Idealy SM81's but seeing as they are about 350 quid a pop.
Beta 81's or AKG C1000's would be good as overheads.

If you aren't serious about recording SM57's would do.
akg 451s

[Dougdady]

Moseph, thanks for all the advice! Should be huge in getting things started.

I think the reason I want to go the mixer route is because we need an upgrade to the PA anyways, so I could just split the output and take care of the recording while upgrading the PA in essentially the same investment. Our current PA is abominadable.

Can't think of anymore questions right now but as soon as I start getting all this stuff ordered I'm sure I will have a plenty :)

thanks everyone for the input.

[cadencethefire]

The past several weekends I've been practicing with a band and I would really like to get some recordings of what we've been doing, but I feel like a studio setting would be really difficult for us right now because for the most part we don't have too many set songs.

I want to be able to get some live recording gear in there, and I'm wondering what people would think is the best idea? I'm thinking that I will probably be buying a new Apple labtop soon for school, so I guess Logic would be the software I'd want to use. To record all of this at once, and to just get a decent sound, what would you think my best route is to approach this problem.

I talked to a friend that works at the music store in town and he said I should use like five mics on just the drumset. I'm really not looking forward to paying for all this gear if I'm going to need five mics just for the drumset, but if that's the only way to sound decent, then I guess I will have to take care of it. Then one mic for each guitar amp and the bass amp, and the vocals. So am I looking at needing at least 8 mics to get a decent sound?

And another thing, would it be easier to just hook up the amps into a mixer board, and record from that? I really have no idea. I guess it would be easier to use a mixer board and cheaper I bet? Would all the inputs be in one line output to connect to the audio interface on the labtop? That would make things easier.

I really have no idea what I'm talking about, though. Tell me what I absolutely need to record a live session and have it sound presentable to someone enough so that they get a feel for the sound and would want to come hear it in person. Assuming that the actual playing is up to quality with the recording.

are you playing a club or hosting your own shows? Or are you recording the whole band together in a live jam session? the best way to record everything is one at a time... if you're going to do that record drums, bass, guitar, and any other instruments until you add the vocals at the end

[Dougdady]

We are just jamming at a buddies place but usually there is few people there to listen so it's a good mix of practice and performance.

I'm thinking I might try to get into my friend's studio coming up pretty quick, because I was reading an article on live recording and it suggested that the first demo should be in a studio setting, because for people who haven't seen you live it's a more familair sound. And for the people that have already seen us play, they already know the sound.

So I'm thinking we may try to put out five or so tracks and try to get people interested that way, and then start pumping out the live recordings as well.

[cadencethefire]

all you need is about 4 songs, then start playing local venues, don't spend too much time on recording though because it will take away from the band tightness

[Dougdady]

yeah man, I wish we could be practicing all day every day, but we can really only all get together on the weekend because our lead guitar works on night shift. So I try to practice with the rhythm guitar as much as I can, and the drummer when he can make it, but they've been practicing together before I started playing with them so I have catching up to do anyways. and we end up practicing for many hours friday, saturday, sunday nights.

[pitchfork]

akg 451s

Oh yeah, totally forgot about them :chug:

[cadencethefire]

yeah man, I wish we could be practicing all day every day, but we can really only all get together on the weekend because our lead guitar works on night shift. So I try to practice with the rhythm guitar as much as I can, and the drummer when he can make it, but they've been practicing together before I started playing with them so I have catching up to do anyways. and we end up practicing for many hours friday, saturday, sunday nights.

you guys should really all try to get the same or similar scedules... the only way you're going to make it as a band is if you make a lot of sacrifices and literally put the band before everything... even eating sometimes.

if you have a girlfriend, let her know she's going to have to be as harcore about the band thing as you are, otherwise one of the two isn't going to work out, if she can't handle that, she dump her, or if you have a boyfriend, lol, it works the same way

[Dougdady]

well, yeah. I'm thinking about loaning some cash to my friend, or at least helping him out, to get his business going again. He used to lay carpet and was starting his own business but I haven't really talked to him about what happened with it so I'm going to see if maybe a bit of capital would allow him to get things off the ground, and then we'd all be on a normal daytime scheduale and would allow for 3-4 hours a night (not ideal) and then longer on the weekends.

as it stands now the three of us not working night shift are busy with school and part time jobs as well, but I think it will be easier to convince all of us to drop everything when we start to get tighter. We've really only played together like 6 times, but it's been amazing every time. I feel like I more than most people would jump right into something without thinking about the consequences, but I'd probably have a tough time convincing myself to drop out of school this semester. But after this semester, no problem! :chug: Only two more months anyways, that's like eight weekends.

I don't have a girlfriend, no, and I think any girls I'd be interested in right now are girls that hang out at the house anyways. so that's all good.

[cadencethefire]

good man, i wouldnt' drop completely out of school, do like part time classes at a CC or something so that way you're still kind of working on a backup plan...

but keep up the attitude and don't let up because if you do, you won't make it.