"The missing link between Jews and Blacks"

[Hot Karl]

http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=667

Watch the video before you make a comment.

[EinzingerIsGod]

Do you mind summarizing? I don't have an hour and eight minutes to waste watching a lecture right now.

[Mr. Ron]

I knew the Jews had something to do with blacks. I KNEW IT.

[StrangeVision]

When in doubt, blame the Jews.

[Hot Karl]

Do you mind summarizing? I don't have an hour and eight minutes to waste watching a lecture right now.
Sure I'll summarize. Jews have been deeply involved in the slave trade since the beginning. Even among Christians and Muslims, the Jews were known as the slave merchants, selling Muslims laves to Christians, and Christian slaves to Muslims. Before the Trans-Atlantic slave trades to America, the Jews have made their contribution as slave traders and masters in the Carribbean, mainly Brazil. The Jews' idea that Blacks deserve to be slaves all traces back to the Rabbinic teachings of the Talmund in which they interpret a new twist on the "Curse of Ham" story from the Old Testament. The speech is presented by Dr. Martin, who is African-American. He makes a great point at the end - The Jews are the only people which get roudy over the fact that they were involved in the slavery in a great deal, while they were obviously not the only ones, other peoples admit their wrong doing in the involvement of slavery.

[StreetlightRock]

LOL

"Brief concluding remarks are offered by historian David Irving"

[Hot Karl]

LOL

"Brief concluding remarks are offered by historian David Irving"
LOL what did you just skip to the end? LOL

[StreetlightRock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

[Hot Karl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving
Okay, what's your point.

[StreetlightRock]

You seem like a clever bloke - what do you think my point is? It should be rather obvious if you read the first sentence of that article.

[AA-12]

Okay, what's your point.

He thinks David Irving is a stupid racist, which is not true at all. Interesting link by the way.

[StreetlightRock]

His writings on the holocaust have been legaly disproved.

[Hot Karl]

You seem like a clever bloke - what do you think my point is? It should be rather obvious if you read the first sentence of that article.
I don't care what wikipedia (the encyclopedia anyone can edit) says. Take a look at how the Jews justify the slavery of Blacks - Go to 40:00-43:30m since I doubt you will watch any part of the video anyway.

[StreetlightRock]

Then parhaps you might care what the courts say.

[Hot Karl]

His writings on the holocaust have been legaly disproved.

I bet, even though the holocaust denial laws are intact - anything outrageous can be claimed.

[JoshIsNumber3]

You can claim anything but when something is legally disproved, you lose a bit of ground to stand on.

[Iskandar]

He thinks David Irving is a stupid racist, which is not true at all. Interesting link by the way.
Uh, is he not a Holocaust denier?

[Hot Karl]

Then parhaps you might care what the courts say.

http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=667

40:00m-43:30m - go there and watch it. It explains how the Jews justify the enslavement of Blacks, and how they perceive them as inferior beings.

Stop sidetracking this video to the Holocaust or David Irving.

[StreetlightRock]

Sure, the reason the dinosaurs disappeared was beause i ATE them.

[Hot Karl]

Sure, the reason the dinosaurs disappeared was beause i ATE them.

Can you atleast make one relevant post? Now address my previous post directly or don't bother at all.

[StreetlightRock]

Shhhh.... im watching a video on a website which has a subtitle "Health, Conspiracies and Activism". My internets is slow, gimmie time.

[HaVIC5]

So when the official Roman Catholic policy for more than a millenium is the Curse of Ham rationalization, its OK? Because I'm going to assume that was left out, because I'm definitely not wasting an hour of my time with that video. Provide a transcript or don't bother.

[TheClap]

Most including the puritans used the curse of ham story to justify why they had slaves. Most blacks knew of it, such as fredrick douglass. Its a pretty vague story basically with god saying something in the end to the affect of, "you and all your decendents shall be born into slavery". See what religion does?

[Hot Karl]

Yet the Curse of Ham story is just what it is, a "story". While the first interpretation of it with negrophobic content originates all in the Talmund. A book written by the "three wise Rabbis." They created the sterotypes of Blacks that we hear today. You don't have to watch the whole speech, atleast scan it for some important points, since no one would anyway since they all beleive the Jews are entirely blameless.

[AA-12]

Uh, is he not a Holocaust denier?

Yes sir he is./

[Hot Karl]

Yes sir he is./
No, I think the term is used incorrectly. David Irving is a revisionist. Holocaust denier is foolish terminology, obviously the holocaust did happen however not to the extent portrayed.

[Jude]

Yet the Curse of Ham story is just what it is, a "story". While the first interpretation of it with negrophobic content originates all in the Talmund. A book written by the "three wise Rabbis." They created the sterotypes of Blacks that we hear today. You don't have to watch the whole speech, atleast scan it for some important points, since no one would anyway since they all beleive the Jews are entirely blameless.

Or that taking some bad thing a few Jews did and generalizing it to all of them is retarded

[AA-12]

No, I think the term is used incorrectly. David Irving is a revisionist. Holocaust denier is foolish terminology, obviously the holocaust did happen however not to the extent portrayed.
Exactly. We are going to get along. :)

[Otherside]

birds of a feather flock together

especially the stupid ones

[ATC]

Sure I'll summarize. Jews have been deeply involved in the slave trade since the beginning. Even among Christians and Muslims, the Jews were known as the slave merchants, selling Muslims laves to Christians, and Christian slaves to Muslims. Before the Trans-Atlantic slave trades to America, the Jews have made their contribution as slave traders and masters in the Carribbean, mainly Brazil. The Jews' idea that Blacks deserve to be slaves all traces back to the Rabbinic teachings of the Talmund in which they interpret a new twist on the "Curse of Ham" story from the Old Testament. The speech is presented by Dr. Martin, who is African-American. He makes a great point at the end - The Jews are the only people which get roudy over the fact that they were involved in the slavery in a great deal, while they were obviously not the only ones, other peoples admit their wrong doing in the involvement of slavery.

Uh what's your point? If you're saying the Jews invented xenophobia, you're obviously reaching. And if you're trying to equate Jews to blacks, you're delusional. I watched the speech, or parts of it. Sure, there are unsavory parts to it, just like with most texts from a different time period and culture. So?

And David Irving has been known to falsify evidence (the Lipstadt trial). That automatically casts a shadow on his academic worth if there was anything worthy to begin with.

[Hot Karl]

Or that taking some bad thing a few Jews did and generalizing it to all of them is retarded
Or the fact that Jews were largely involved in slavery and the black slave trade. As stated in the speech, a Jewish historian concluded from the 1830's census that 75% of the Jews within America owned slaves as opposed to the 36% of Whites owning slaves. Even in America Jews had very little if nothing to do with abolisionism. By the way, refering to your quote, "some bad thing a few Jews did" you mean the "three wise sages" or "three wise rabbis", as reffered to Jewish Rabbis who today study and read the talmund along with their fellow Jews. I assume they would reffer to them as the "three retarded bigots" if they had dissagreed with them.

[ATC]

I'm not sure anyone's been making out any particular group to be blameless in history.

[Hot Karl]

Uh what's your point? If you're saying the Jews invented xenophobia, you're obviously reaching. And if you're trying to equate Jews to blacks, you're delusional.

And David Irving has been known to falsify evidence (the Lipstadt trial). That automatically casts a shadow on his academic worth if there was anything worthy to begin with.
Hmm, what's my point? Maybe you ought to have looked closely. The Jews were largely involved in slave trading along with the Trans-Atlantic trade. I never tried to equate Jews to Blacks, I don't know where you see that... David Irving did not make the speech. Dr. Martin who is of African-American Descent made the speech, btw his expertise is African-American slavery.

[Hot Karl]

I'm not sure anyone's been making out any particular group to be blameless in history.
Except for the Jews, since they were outraged at such "false accusations" of being anywhere involved with slavery.

[ATC]

I never said David Irving was the speaker. I was referring to an earlier post. I specifically watched the 38:00-47:00 speech by Dr. Martin. Note how I didn't comment on whether he was right or wrong. Also note how the speaker's ethnicity does not make a point any more or less right.
Except for the Jews, since they were outraged at such "false accusations" of being anywhere involved with slavery.

I'd like some proof of that as a historical trend and generalizable fact because I certainly haven't come across this.

PS: Systematically falsifying evidence sorta makes you not a legitimate historian, or any stripe.

[StreetlightRock]

Don't you dare.

Niall Fegurson is a revisionist. A.J.P Taylor is a revisionist. John Laffin is a revisionist. Hobsbawn and Zinn are revisionists. I could name an entire slew of post-modernist, femanist, marxist, post-colonialist historians who could be classified as 'revisionist'.

Irving's works are nothing more than a insut to historical method, not even WORTHY of the title revisionist.

Other than that, my major problem is that Martin put disproportionate weighting on the role of Jews - Historiogrpahy calls upon the other side to be presented as well if you're trying to paint an 'accurate' picture of any event.

[Hot Karl]

I never said David Irving was the speaker. I was referring to an earlier post. I specifically watched the 38:00-47:00 speech by Dr. Martin. Note how I didn't comment on whether he was right or wrong. Also note how the speaker's ethnicity does not make a point any more or less right.
You haven't tried to refute any of his points, which infact he takes out of Jewish sources and books written by Jews.

[Hot Karl]

Don't you dare.

Niall Fegurson is a revisionist. A.J.P Taylor is a revisionist. John Laffin is a revisionist. Hobsbawn and Zinn are revisionists. I could name an entire slew of post-modernist historians who could be classified as 'revisionist'.

Irving's works are nothing more than a insut to historical method, not even WORTHY of the title revisionist.
Right, anything related to the holocaust is deemed otherwise.

[ATC]

I don't see any reason to refute Dr. Martin. Historical texts have been known to have views that dont cut it anymore. That is hardly an indictment of a still-existing religious group. I don't see how Dr. Martin being black makes him automatically more of an authority on this, or that he's quoting from a 'jewish book written by jews' makes it look like a 'jewish book written by all jews'.

Uh, Irving's not a historian because he's been known to systematically falsify data. That's a scientific no-no. He's got to be a historian before he can be a revisionist historian.

[StreetlightRock]

Don't put words into my mouth kid. There's plenty of legitimate debate over whether the holocaust was as a concequence of either structualist or intentionalist natures within the third reich, both with their fair amount of controvesy. What is not included within that debate, one would notice, is generally accepted portryal of the holocaust, and theres a reason for that.

I don't see any reason to refute Dr. Martin. Historical texts have been known to have views that dont cut it anymore. That is hardly an indictment of a still-existing religious group. I don't see how Dr. Martin being black makes him automatically more of an authority on this, or that he's quoting from a 'jewish book written by jews' makes it look like a 'jewish book written by all jews'.

123.

[Zesty Mordant]

Or the fact that Jews were largely involved in slavery and the black slave trade. As stated in the speech, a Jewish historian concluded from the 1830's census that 75% of the Jews within America owned slaves as opposed to the 36% of Whites owning slaves. Even in America Jews had very little if nothing to do with abolisionism. .

So, what does that have to do specifically with xenophobia? All that means is that Jews in early America were at the forefront of local commerce, given that slavery was generally a huge economic institution. Jewish people (unfortunately for the stereotype) have historically been heavily involved in trade (often due to the religious restraints of commerce during the middle ages by Rome) so this really isn't surprising in the first place. Jews have always been a market-dominant minority in many nations, particularly the new world.

This is not to say that they were not racist, slavery in America was still a racist institution as well, but that A=B logic is just way toooo stretched out to be taken seriously if he is trying to claim that Jews were the forefront of African slavery (which if you know a bit of African history, its not).

[Hot Karl]

I'd like some proof of that as a historical trend and generalizable fact because I certainly haven't come across this.
Just take a look at the speech, Martin was run out of a show and called sick in the head for such "absudities." Even there have been books written by Jews, specifically as stated in the speech the Jewish author Harold Brachman ( who worked for the Simon Weisenthal center, http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023) who had written in his book that the Babylonian Talmund is the first mention of negrophobic interpretations. When Martin had confronted him about this, Brachman had denied he had written this text.

PS: Systematically falsifying evidence sorta makes you not a legitimate historian, or any stripe.
http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2006/10/05/how-the-courts-faked-evidence-for-the-holocaut/

[Hot Karl]

I don't see any reason to refute Dr. Martin. Historical texts have been known to have views that dont cut it anymore. That is hardly an indictment of a still-existing religious group. I don't see how Dr. Martin being black makes him automatically more of an authority on this, or that he's quoting from a 'jewish book written by jews' makes it look like a 'jewish book written by all jews'.


You haven't tried to refute Martin. I'm trying to make a point since it would be easier to call him a bigot, or a racist if he was white.. Yet a Black historian of African-American slavery is less likely to do that. The Talmund is still a part of Jewish teaching, it wasn't cut away from the Rabbinic teachings yet, nor I doubt will be. Israel can be a reflection of this. And the fact that Jews have written it only makes it more credible... I guess a white's book regarding this part of history would be any more accepted...

[ATC]

Just take a look at the speech, Martin was run out of a show and called sick in the head for such "absudities." Even there have been books written by Jews, specifically as stated in the speech the Jewish author Harold Brachman ( who worked for the Simon Weisenthal center, http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023) who had written in his book that the Babylonian Talmund is the first mention of negrophobic interpretations. When Martin had confronted him about this, Brachman had denied he had written this text.

There have been xenophobic texts in most primitive cultures. What's your point? Xenophobic viewpoints have been expressed in (that I know of) Indian, Chinese and surprisingly, African texts that predate or are around the same time as the Talmud.


http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2006/10/05/how-the-courts-faked-evidence-for-the-holocaut/

You do realize that's an opinion piece,right? Hardly a refutation.

You haven't tried to refute Martin. I'm trying to make a point since it would be easier to call him a bigot, or a racist if he was white.. Yet a Black historian of African-American slavery is less likely to do that. The Talmund is still a part of Jewish teaching, it wasn't cut away from the Rabbinic teachings yet, nor I doubt will be. Israel can be a reflection of this. And the fact that Jews have written it only makes it more credible... I guess a white's book regarding this part of history would be any more accepted...

Why should I refute him again? Are you suggesting that black people cannot be racist or bigoted? The old testament is pretty un-christian and primitive, its not been cut away. The vedas have some horrible parts, the hindus aren't throwing them away though. I don't see any reason to cut it out - it's what the prevailing culture was at the time. We've evolved and are at a much better place now. I'm not sure why this would even get your panties in a bunch.

Jews had slaves. Slavery is bad. Therefore jews are bad is a logical fallacy.

[Hot Karl]

There have been xenophobic texts in most primitive cultures. What's your point? Xenophobic viewpoints have been expressed in (that I know of) Indian, Chinese and surprisingly, African texts that predate or are around the same time as the Talmud.
Yet the Talmund is still studied, preached, and practiced by Jews.

[StreetlightRock]

When Martin had confronted him about this, Brachman had denied he had written this text.

Hooray for Ad Homenim arguments!

ho had written in his book that the Babylonian Talmund is the first mention of negrophobic interpretations.

This may well be the case. It does not mean that the jews were exclusive, or even dominent proponents of the slave trade.

http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2006/10/05/how-the-courts-faked-evidence-for-the-holocaut/

Oh. of course. Because Neuremburg trials were somewhat kangaroo courts, it OBVIOUSLY and IRREFUTABLY means that the holocaust did not happen.

That the Talmund is still part of Jewish teaching of of no concequence. Hundreds of historical religious documents, some still in use, contain anti [insert peoples/race here] writings.

[Hot Karl]

Why should I refute him again? Are you suggesting that black people cannot be racist or bigoted? The old testament is pretty un-christian and primitive, its not been cut away. The vedas have some horrible parts, the hindus aren't throwing them away though. I don't see any reason to cut it out - it's what the prevailing culture was at the time. We've evolved and are at a much better place now. I'm not sure why this would even get your panties in a bunch.
No are you suggesting Martin is a bigot or anti-semite? The Talmund is generally a racist book which the Jews refer to as a book of rabbinical "wise sayings." You don't see any reason to cut it out?

[ATC]

Yet the Talmund is still studied, preached, and practiced by Jews.

The bible, the vedas, the quran, african tribal myths are still studied, preached and practiced. They've all got parts to it that most sane people would disagree completely with. Am I suddenly racist because I'm catholic?

No, I'm not saying Martin was a racist or anti-semite. I'm commenting on your belief that a black person is less likely to be racist than a white person.

[StreetlightRock]

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/koran.html
http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm

ZOMGgetridofthebibleandKoranallreligionisashamlets createanaethistparadiseandkillallreligiouspeople

[Hot Karl]

This may well be the case. It does not mean that the jews were exclusive, or even dominent proponents of the slave trade.
Maybe you miss a point, the Jews WERE a dominant proponent of slave trade atleast within the Carribbean.



Oh. of course. Because Neuremburg trials were somewhat kangaroo courts, it OBVIOUSLY and IRREFUTABLY means that the holocaust did not happen.
Yes swallow up the post-war propoganda, Nuremburg was no proof of anything only a retaliation on the Nazis. Rudolf Hess, sent to prison for the rest of his life without a chance to ever see his son again. He had himself flown a plane to Britain to compromise peace until he was imprisoned after he crashed. Hoess, the head of the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp, was tortured as well as most Nazi officials were after the war. The British had used their torture policy to finaly force him say that Auschwitz was a death camp.

That the Talmund is still part of Jewish teaching of of no concequence. Hundreds of historical religious d0cuments, some still in use, contain anti [insert peoples/race here] writings.
Please show me religious texts compromised of wise and racist saying which are strictly practiced by the nationals who practice this religion. hint: Israel.

[ATC]

Maybe you miss a point, the Jews WERE a dominant proponent of slave trade atleast within the Carribbean.

So? There were jew slavers, so? If you're arguing they were slavers simply because the talmud told them and not because it was economically viable, you're probably far off-base.



Please show me religious texts compromised of wise and racist saying which are strictly practiced by the nationals who practice this religion. hint: Israel.

I think Streetlight has shown you the Quran which is strictly practiced by many nations in the middle east and asia. The bible is strictly practiced in many countries in europe and latin america. The vedas are loosely followed in india,nepal and surinam, i think. African religious myths are considered useful in many universities. I'm not sure how many people actively practice them.

[Hot Karl]

No, I'm not saying Martin was a racist or anti-semite. I'm commenting on your belief that a black person is less likely to be racist than a white person.
I'm merely pointing out that a Black historian is less likely to distort history of African-American slavery.

[Zesty Mordant]

^^^sure they are if it serves their ends better.

How is any different that a British historian downplaying the various imperial atrocities committed by the crown in the 19th century?

I still don't understand the guy's point. Jews caused slavery?

[Hot Karl]

So? There were jew slavers, so? If you're arguing they were slavers simply because the talmud told them and not because it was economically viable, you're probably far off-base.
The great wise Talmund justifies it. And no, there weren't just Jew slavers, they were years before the Black trade involved highly in it, even among Muslims and Christians.




I think Streetlight has shown you the Quran which is strictly practiced by many nations in the middle east and asia. The bible is strictly practiced in many countries in europe and latin america. The vedas are loosely followed in india,nepal and surinam, i think. African religious myths are considered useful in many universities. I'm not sure how many people actively practice them.The Koran is not texted from front to back with racist scripture. The Catholic bible isn't either, nor do Catholics practise racism because of it. Israel is a walking Talmund. Different colored license plates for gentiles to quickly root out the "goyim" or "cattle" are imposed. News articles and media produced only for Jews made by Jews, special rights only for the Jews. No gentile is to marry a Jew, since Jews are reserved only for other Jews in Israel. Gee, the Jewish people are as tolerant as they really make themselves out to be.

[HaVIC5]

If you're creating a historical model blaming Jews for the slave trade, you are completely and totally glossing over the Roman Catholic Church's role -an organization far, far more powerful and expansive than any Jewish contigent could ever hope to be - in providing justification through legal and religious documents in the Atlantic slave trade. Through papal bulls such as Dum Diversas, the Church authorized the enslavement of all "pagan enemies of Christ" from all people south of Cape Bojador, ie, all Africans, and by extension, all Indian natives in the New World. To this day, the Catholic church has yet to even consider revoking these bulls.

[StreetlightRock]

Yes swallow up the post-war propoganda, Nuremburg was no proof of anything only a retaliation on the Nazis.

In a way you're right, given that Albert Speer and a few other only got light sentences because they admitted partial guilt, whereas the rest did not and that the trials were a tool to destroy everything within the third Reich and promote a new German state. In every other way you're wrong. I suggest you read up on ever other legitimate historian who has studied the holocaust.

Rudolf Hess, sent to prison for the rest of his life without a chance to ever see his son again.

=( Poor Head of the SS.

Maybe you miss a point, the Jews WERE a dominant proponent of slave trade atleast within the Carribbean....The great wise Talmund justifies it.

Yea, 'cause the race has everything to do with. Money Incentives? Hahaha. Ridiculous notion. As if people were in it for the money. lol.

Diatribe about Isreal

'cause yea, the state of Isreal obviously is a clear-cut representative of every Jew to have ever walked the Earth.

[Hot Karl]

In a way you're right, given that Albert Speer and a few other only got light sentences because they admitted partial guilt, whereas the rest did not and that the trials were a tool to destroy everything within the third Reich and promote a new German state. In every other way you're wrong. I suggest you read up on ever other legitimate historian who has studied the holocaust.
Who would that be? Yitzhak Arad? Paul Hilberg? please, both of them support the magical ideas of a holocaust survivor known as Wiernik who makes such outrageous claims that bodies burn on their own, bullets stop at the skin (thats how he survived a bullet wound to the shoulder) and other special ideas.

The Nuremburg trials are commonly accepted as the most extensive study and proof of the greatest war atrocities. Meanwhile a great part of the holocaust, Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka, which make up 1/3 of the holocaust, are only discussed for 20 minutes in the 218 day trial, out of the 1000 and more hours of it. Only one representative is shown in the trial as the 1/3 of the Jews out of the holocaust. Very extensive to say the least? The added other half of the books are not the transcript of the trial but are used as evidence anyway even though the tribunal stated no subbmited documents would be evidence unless they were in the transcript.


=( Poor Head of the SS.
Hess had no involvment with any atrocities or the holocaust, but still was imprisoned for life.

Yea, 'cause the race has everything to do with. Money Incentives? Hahaha. Ridiculous notion. As if people were in it for the money. lol.
Actually it is both, only the Talmund had been a justification.



'cause yea, the state of Isreal obviously is a clear-cut representative of every Jew to have ever walked the Earth.
If Jews are religious then they shall study the Talmund.

[HaVIC5]

Actually it is both, only the Talmund had been a justification.

Again...the papal bulls of the Catholic Church.....

[Hot Karl]

Again...the papal bulls of the Catholic Church.....
Which ones?

[HaVIC5]

As, I stated in my several posts, which you have glossed over. Such bulls include "Dum Diversas" and "Romanus Pontifex", which are, as it stands now, because they have never been rebuked or revoked, official policies of the modern Roman Catholic Church.

[Hot Karl]

As, I stated in my several posts, which you have glossed over. Such bulls include "Dum Diversas" and "Romanus Pontifex", which are, as it stands now, because they have never been rebuked or revoked, official policies of the modern Roman Catholic Church.
The Roman Catholic church doesn't have a policy to enslave pagans or muslims, nor to catholics think doing so would be right.

[HaVIC5]

And neither do Jews. Because neither group literally believes the antiquated documents used in mideval and Baroque times to exploit Africans. End of thread.

[StreetlightRock]

Who would that be?

Richard Evans? Deborah Lipstadt? William Shirer? Christopher Browning?

Y'know? Real historians?

Also, the name is Raul Hilberg =)

The Nuremburg trials are commonly accep...

Im not saying that the Nuremburg trials were perfect, or even close to. This has no bearing on wheather the holocaust occurd or not. This dicussion ends here.

Hess had no involvment with any atrocities or the holocaust, but still was imprisoned for life.

His acquesence as well as intimate involvement with the regime was alone enough to convict him, according to the standards of Neuremburg. Again, thsi dicussion ends here.

Actually it is both, only the Talmund had been a justification.

Inconcequential + Havics explaniation.

If Jews are religious then they shall study the Talmund.

Wow. That was insightful. Care to tell us something new? Like, perhaps.... if there was no sun it wouldnt be so hot?

You're useless. Bye.

[Hot Karl]

And neither do Jews. Because neither group literally believes the antiquated d0cuments used in mideval and Baroque times to exploit Africans. End of thread.

No, the Jews still study and preach the teachings of the Talmund. Catholics do not study nor preach those papal bulls which were used to conquest other lands during the medieval times.

[Hot Karl]

Richard Evans? Deborah Lipstadt? William Shirer? Christopher Browning?

Y'know? Real historians?

Also, the name is Raul Hilberg =)

Are you saying Yitzhak Arad of the Israeli Holocaust museum is not a historian to be credited? If anything, the Jews just MUST be the experts on the holocaust, just like Yankel Wiernik and his magical ideas. Only Yankel Wiernik's most ridiculous claims are not quoted by Hillberg or Arad, so I guess the only credible thing they do is quote the most reliable from the unreliable.


Im not saying that the Nuremburg trials were perfect, or even close to. This has no bearing on wheather the holocaust occurd or not. This dicussion ends here.
So what is perfect?



His acquesence as well as intimate involvement with the regime was alone enough to convict him, according to the standards of Neuremburg. Again, thsi dicussion ends here.

Yes Hess was involved in bringing Germany to it's economic uprise and rebirth, well done.




Wow. That was insightful. Care to tell us something new? Like, perhaps.... if there was no sun it wouldnt be so hot?

You're useless. Bye.
You were very insightful from the start...

Alone from other non-useless posts...

I knew the Jews had something to do with blacks. I KNEW IT.

When in doubt, blame the Jews.

[thedeadwalk!]

The Koran is not texted from front to back with racist scripture. The Catholic bible isn't either, nor do Catholics practise racism because of it. Israel is a walking Talmund. Different colored license plates for gentiles to quickly root out the "goyim" or "cattle" are imposed. News articles and media produced only for Jews made by Jews, special rights only for the Jews. No gentile is to marry a Jew, since Jews are reserved only for other Jews in Israel. Gee, the Jewish people are as tolerant as they really make themselves out to be.
Israel is probably home to half of the world's jews, if not less. America alone rivals Israel's population (but, yeah, we're huge compared to them). I think it's safe to say Israel, especially how it came to be, is home to some of the most zealous of the religion. Even if half are die-hards, it's not accurate to portray the religion, as a whole, as what you're making them out to be, when the other side is comparable to any lay-christian. Hell, our jewish population is declining mostly because of intermarriage.

Sure, jews were part of the slave trade. So were a lot of people, including blacks. Yeah, some are going to deny it or minimalize their "race"'s role in it, as there are in every group of people. Jews aren't the first to hate outsiders and they aren't the last.

[StreetlightRock]

Yes Albert Speer and Toldt was involved in bringing Germany to it's economic uprise and rebirth, well done.

I just had to correct you there. Carry on.

[Hot Karl]

Israel is probably home to half of the world's jews, if not less. America alone rivals Israel's population (but, yeah, we're huge compared to them). I think it's safe to say Israel, especially how it came to be, is home to some of the most zealous of the religion. Even if half are die-hards, it's not accurate to portray the religion, as a whole, as what you're making them out to be, when the other side is comparable to any lay-christian. Hell, our jewish population is declining mostly because of intermarriage.
Right, and ask a Jew in America whether or not he has visited Israel. I've never heard of this mass Jewish intermarriage... Nor do I see it.

Sure, jews were part of the slave trade. So were a lot of people, including blacks. Yeah, some are going to deny it or minimalize their "race"'s role in it, as there are in every group of people. Jews aren't the first to hate outsiders and they aren't the last.Yes, they were involved, probably more deeply among themselves than any other ethnic group. But, those other groups will admit their involvement, while Jews would stamp "anti-semite" on your forehead for saying so.

[Hot Karl]

I just had to correct you there. Carry on.

What about Hitler? Had he not brought Germany on her feet again?
Now carry on with the rest of my post.

[HaVIC5]

What part of end of thread didn't you understand?

[Hot Karl]

What part of end of thread didn't you understand?

Go to bed.

[Amit]

Right, and ask a Jew in America whether or not he has visited Israel. I've never heard of this mass Jewish intermarriage... Nor do I see it.

well live in a predominantely jewish town like i do and then you will

[Hot Karl]

well live in a predominantely jewish town like i do and then you will

I do, and I see Jews flocking with Jews, with carriages filled with Jews.

[Amit]

lmao carriages

???

where do you live

10th century jerusalem?

[Hot Karl]

lmao carriages

???

where do you live

10th century jerusalem?

Where do you live? inside the center of the earth? You've never seen a baby carriage or stroller? lmaolmaololol

[ATC]

Every jewish girl that I know is dating a non-jew. Every jewish guy I know is either dating a goth or a chinese girl. I'm in a long term relationship with a jewish girl. Perhaps you don't know enough people?

[Hot Karl]

Every jewish girl that I know is dating a non-jew. Every jewish guy I know is either dating a goth or a chinese girl. I'm in a long term relationship with a jewish girl. Perhaps you don't know enough people?
And just how religious exactly are they? Just exactly how much percent Jewish are they? Now goths constitute inter-racial dating?

[Amit]

Where do you live? inside the center of the earth? You've never seen a baby carriage or stroller? lmaolmaololol

you said carriage though

[Hot Karl]

you said carriage though

Reffering to baby carriage. Only people living in 10th century jerusalem would think of horse led carriages when mentioning babies and carriages.

[Amit]

google and wikipedia inform me otherwise

damned jewish media

anyway you didn't mention babies either in the post about the carriage

[Hot Karl]

google and wikipedia inform me otherwise

damned jewish media

anyway you didn't mention babies either in the post about the carriage

Well normally when speaking of inter-marriage or marriage, there are babies involved. :eek:

[Amit]

you said flocking not marrying

[Hot Karl]

you said flocking not marrying

Well my, you have never inferred in your lifetime have you. The discussion was about inter-marriage, flocking relates to Jews sticking together which means no inter-marriage, which means Jewish babies.

[thedeadwalk!]

Right, and ask a Jew in America whether or not he has visited Israel.
What's this supposed to imply?

I've never heard of this mass Jewish intermarriage... Nor do I see it.
At any rate, jewish population outside of Israel has declined about half a percent due to assimilation in foreign cultures. Even Israel's population is barely growing beyond one percent.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm

Yes, they were involved, probably more deeply among themselves than any other ethnic group. But, those other groups will admit their involvement, while Jews would stamp "anti-semite" on your forehead for saying so.
Please stop these blanket statements like "Jews would stamp..."

[Amit]

Well my, you have never inferred in your lifetime have you. The discussion was about inter-marriage, flocking relates to Jews sticking together which means no inter-marriage, which means Jewish babies.

well i don't want to be presumptious :->

anyway a cursory look at my campus or my hometown (or in discussion with my jewish friends) reveal that jews are nowhere nearly as clannish these days as they used to be (or thought to be)

[SubtleDagger]

When did stormfront start storming our front anyway

[Amit]

eh they finally got bored of their forumwide circlejerking i guess

[SubtleDagger]

Well they're going to have some trouble adjusting when the non-bigots uh I mean non-retards actually counterpoint

[Amit]

i have never met an intelligent racist person in my entire life

and i don't think i ever will

most of those "professors" and "historians" just put it on as a facade to make lots of money off of gullible white americans who lack self confidence :-)

[SubtleDagger]

Eh there's educated racists and I'm sure there's a few intelligent ones somewhere

I firmly believe education doesn't have near as much bearing on intelligence as most people would have it though

[Amit]

nah i think they are actually quite mutually exclusive at least in contemporary times

doing well in a competitive academic field in higher education is a pretty nice indicator of intelligence; not nearly so much for high school though

[SubtleDagger]

What I mean is there's plenty of people with Ph. D's who are total morons

At least in the common sense department

[thedeadwalk!]

Autistic kids can be quite intelligent and yet lack much in the common sense department. Common sense, I believe, has more to do with socialization and not genetics.

[ATC]

And just how religious exactly are they? Just exactly how much percent Jewish are they? Now goths constitute inter-racial dating?

I thought your basic premise was that all jews are religious bigots. So what percentage they are is immaterial. Even if it didn't, what percentage anyone is is irrelevant. Since we're being facetious, yes, goths are a separate race.

I love how you've managed to question this while ignoring every other point made. Very cool.

Well normally when speaking of inter-marriage or marriage, there are babies involved.

No, marriage is
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock

I didn't see a reference to babies there. Or do you mean 'it is only intermarriage if there are babies,dammit'

[Amit]

Autistic kids can be quite intelligent and yet lack much in the common sense department. Common sense, I believe, has more to do with socialization and not genetics.

ta da

[SubtleDagger]

Racists should get out more then

[Charlie Manson]

I'm kind of a racist.

[Africa]

I'm kind of a racist.

Or ignorant, as ignorance is at the heart of racism, what would you prefer? Though, we are all a bit racist to some extent, I still think mexican food is dirty wtf is wrong with me?

[StreetlightRock]

I f'ucking hate Japanese food.

[ATC]

Not liking a kind of food is not racist.
I hate Japanese food, Zanzibari food (yam and bananas)and Honduran food (plantain in everything).

[Cain]

Exactly. We are going to get along. :)

Ugh you disgust me. You have to be blind deaf and dumb to claim that no systemized extermination system existed in Nazi Germany or its occupied territories.

Or a Nazi. And as far as I'm concerned, apologists are included in that.

Oops. Late.

[AA-12]

You have to be blind deaf and dumb to just accept anything that is said about history. There was no "systemized extermination system" that murdered millions of jews. Did many die from bad living conditions and diseases? Yes, I can't deny that ever.

Then fine, I guess i'm a crazy Nazi now, huh :rolleyes:

[Mr. Ron]

Well, there were gas chambers.

[AA-12]

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm Take it or leave it.

[Otherside]

bible believers \m/

[SubtleDagger]

"Modern Holocaust deniers assert that Zyklon B gas was not used in the gas chambers, as evidenced by the low levels of Prussian Blue residue in the chambers, as found by Fred A. Leuchter, for instance. In 1994, the Institute for Forensic Research in Krakow, however, reexamined this claim on the grounds that formation of Prussian blue by exposure of bricks to cyanide is not a highly probable reaction (Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit. Praca zbiorowa; B. Gallanda, J. Bailer, F. Freund, T. Geisler, W. Lasek, N. Neugebauer, G. Spenn, W. Wegner; Bundesministerium fuer Unterricht und Kultur Wien, 1991). Using more sophisticated microdiffusion techniques, they tested 22 samples from delousing chambers, alleged gas chambers, and living quarters, finding cyanide residue in both the delousing chambers and the ruins hypothesized as gas chambers, but none in the ruins of the living quarters,[3] thus supporting the identification of the gas chambers as correct. (Leuchter did not test any samples from living quarters or other negative controls.)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B

It has been known for years that Leuchter is an incompetent moron and his tests are complete crap because he had no clue what he was doing. There was a documentary about if for Christ's sake. Cyanide gas almost never forms Prussian Blue with brick but Leuchter didn't do his research.

This also proves that that source you gave is completely fraudulent, since the tests taken in 1991 did in fact prove Leuchter wrong.

The pen claim is also complete crap: http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar56.html

As is the claim about the gas chamber doors:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-09.html

And the claim about no autopsies is bunk, since it was common procedure to cremate gassed Jews:
http://www.gatago.com/misc/survivalism/23922299.html

If you're going to just believe whatever some morons tell you without them giving you any actual reason to believe it, you're stupider than I thought.

[neal_672]

"David Irving: Intrepid Battler for Historical Truth by Mark Weber"

Haha oh dear, Wotan, you're really going to have to try harder than a website promoting David Irving...

[SubtleDagger]

Both Leuchter and Irving have made themselves look so bad that I can't believe anyone, even deniers, still rely on their claims

[Amit]

well that just goes to show how desperate their claims are

[Zesty Mordant]

You have to be blind deaf and dumb to just accept anything that is said about history. There was no "systemized extermination system" that murdered millions of jews. Did many die from bad living conditions and diseases? Yes, I can't deny that ever.

Then fine, I guess i'm a crazy Nazi now, huh :rolleyes:

and gassing, you forgot the gassing.

[Hot Karl]

well i don't want to be presumptious :->

anyway a cursory look at my campus or my hometown (or in discussion with my jewish friends) reveal that jews are nowhere nearly as clannish these days as they used to be (or thought to be)
It is inferring, that means based on information you know not an assumption which means no knowledge at all. It depends if they are religious or not, and how much Jewish they actualy are.

Well, there were gas chambers.
Modified by Soviets after they occupied the area. They were used originally as delousing areas for vermin. According to holocaust survivors and historians, the zyklon-b was to be thrown through a hole from the cieling in a canister or applied via shower heads, then the Nazis were supposed to walk in after the "10" minute job was done and drag the bodies out. I wonder how the Nazis survived that one.

In Belzec there was "electrified flooring" that did the dirty work.

In Treblinka, a diesel gas enigine captured from a Soviet tank was used. Even though diesel gas does not produce that much carbon dioxide emissions which would be enough to kill a human, the gas was said to kill the Jews in 2 or less minutes according to Abraham Bomba, one of the few survivors of Treblinka.

The same diesel gas idea is applied to Sobibor. Also there have been ideas that the air was sucked from a machine out of a room to suffocate the people inside.

Yes I'm sure a superpower such as Germany would have used multiple ways to kill Jews.

"Modern Holocaust deniers assert that Zyklon B gas was not used in the gas chambers, as evidenced by the low levels of Prussian Blue residue in the chambers, as found by Fred A. Leuchter, for instance. In 1994, the Institute for Forensic Research in Krakow, however, reexamined this claim on the grounds that formation of Prussian blue by exposure of bricks to cyanide is not a highly probable reaction (Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit. Praca zbiorowa; B. Gallanda, J. Bailer, F. Freund, T. Geisler, W. Lasek, N. Neugebauer, G. Spenn, W. Wegner; Bundesministerium fuer Unterricht und Kultur Wien, 1991). Using more sophisticated microdiffusion techniques, they tested 22 samples from delousing chambers, alleged gas chambers, and living quarters, finding cyanide residue in both the delousing chambers and the ruins hypothesized as gas chambers, but none in the ruins of the living quarters,[3] thus supporting the identification of the gas chambers as correct. (Leuchter did not test any samples from living quarters or other negative controls.)"

Leuchter was arrested after doing his research, If this is the case, I'm guessing someone has something to hide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B

It has been known for years that Leuchter is an incompetent moron and his tests are complete crap because he had no clue what he was doing. There was a d0cumentary about if for Christ's sake. Cyanide gas almost never forms Prussian Blue with brick but Leuchter didn't do his research.

This also proves that that source you gave is completely fraudulent, since the tests taken in 1991 did in fact prove Leuchter wrong.

The pen claim is also complete crap: http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar56.html

As is the claim about the gas chamber doors:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-09.html

And the claim about no autopsies is bunk, since it was common procedure to cremate gassed Jews:
http://www.gatago.com/misc/survivalism/23922299.html

If you're going to just believe whatever some morons tell you without them giving you any actual reason to believe it, you're stupider than I thought.
Yes a short paragraph is sure to suffice debunking no gas chambers. That is about as much evidence that was needed for Nuremburg.

However, a door which probably belonged to an extermination gas chamber
They can only assume, they don't know the use that wooden door had. The door used for delousing is actually made of metal. I don't know why a chamber which would use more gas for longer time periods only have a wooden one.

It is said that in Treblinka there are probably ash graves, however (except Kriege, which concluded there was no death camp in Treblinka, rather a transit camp as aerial photos show) no historian has been there to research or dig up anything, since the holocaust historians and Jews just placed a large stone memorial there only assuming the massive graves there there which would have to exceed the whole camp perimiter. No ash composition has been found and no mass graves have been found.

[SubtleDagger]

Leuchter was arrested after doing his research, If this is the case, I'm guessing someone has something to hide.
Apparently he did since he openly perjured himself on the stand

Aside from that he was arrested for not having a license for his work so please make some claims about a cover-up when you have evidence for it
Yes a short paragraph is sure to suffice debunking no gas chambers. That is about as much evidence that was needed for Nuremburg.
There was gas found where the gas chambers were purported to be, there are countless d0cuments concerning the gas chambers themselves, there are remnants of their materials all over, there are eyewitnesses within the regime who admit the gassings

How much evidence do you want
They can only assume, they don't know the use that wooden door had. The door used for delousing is actually made of metal. I don't know why a chamber which would use more gas for longer time periods only have a wooden one.

It is said that in Treblinka there are probably ash graves, however (except Kriege, which concluded there was no death camp in Treblinka, rather a transit camp as aerial photos show) no historian has been there to research or dig up anything, since the holocaust historians and Jews just placed a large stone memorial there only assuming the massive graves there there which would have to exceed the whole camp perimiter. No ash composition has been found and no mass graves have been found.
Where are you getting wodden doors from

The evidence given was a massive frigging metal door reinforced with iron bars found near the site

[Hot Karl]

Apparently he did since he openly perjured himself on the stand

Aside from that he was arrested for not having a license for his work so please make some claims about a cover-up when you have evidence for it
He was arrested for research at Auschwitz, Iranian historians were even able to do research since any research is deemed as a sin against history.

There was gas found where the gas chambers were purported to be, Delousing chambers. Ever wonder why the Nazis shaved hair off the prisoners? Typhus was a common disease and the Nazis weren't going to risk epidemic that would hinder their war effort. However inmates were known to die from typhus, you cannot deny there was also a lack of food during the severity of the war which resulted in more deaths.

there are countless d0cuments concerning the gas chambers themselves,


there are remnants of their materials all over,
Sounds like testimony at Nuremburg. Presiding judge: "Ok, that's all the evidence I need."

there are eyewitnesses within the regime who admit the gassings
Hoess was forced to say Auschwitz was a death camp after the British tortured him as well as other Nazi officials.


Where are you getting wodden doors from

The evidence given was a massive frigging metal door reinforced with iron bars found near the site
Doesn't look like it is made of metal.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/images/gas-chamber-door.jpg

This would we a gas chamber door used for delousing, since disease was too common. And it doesn't look massive at all.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I don't get it: if you dislike Jews so much, why do you try and deny that it happened? Shouldn't you be celebrating Germany's finest hour?

[SubtleDagger]

Seriously, it's pretty sad how biased your view is when all the information is right there in front of you and you'd rather just pretend the Nazis weren't at fault in any way
Delousing chambers. Ever wonder why the Nazis shaved hair off the prisoners? Typhus was a common disease and the Nazis weren't going to risk epidemic that would hinder their war effort. However inmates were known to die from typhus, you cannot deny there was also a lack of food during the severity of the war which resulted in more deaths.
No, there was clearly a large amount of gas used, as in enough to permeate the walls of the building for many, many years. Not to mention you don't treat typhus by dropping zyklon through holes in the ceiling

[Hot Karl]

I don't get it: if you dislike Jews so much, why do you try and deny that it happened? Shouldn't you be celebrating Germany's finest hour?
No, the holocaust is needed by the Jews so their artificial death state of Israel can exist. It is the soel reason Israel exists today and why holocaust laws exist in Europe - to protect the existance of Israel. And it don't believe WWII was Germany's finest hour. Germany was steered back on track but war was not a good idea. The holocaust puts shame and guilt on the faces of Germans today by the way it is presented by the Jews and other historians.

[Amit]

nah i think it's the systematic genocide of a people which makes the germans a little shamefaced and guilty still

[Hot Karl]

Seriously, it's pretty sad how biased your view is when all the information is right there in front of you and you'd rather just pretend the Nazis weren't at fault in any way

No, there was clearly a large amount of gas used, as in enouhg to permeate the entire building. Not to mention you don't treat typhus by dropping zyklon through holes in the celing
You treat typhus by delousing clothes and shaving the heads of inmates which may have lice that spread typhus. Delousing the inmates then lowers the chance of typhus. Yes yes, my views are ultimately biased becuase I disagree with whatever I watch on TV or see in the media.

[Amit]

nah your views are ultimately biased because you agree with pseudohistorians and pseudoscientific research

[SubtleDagger]

nah i think it's the systematic genocide of a people which makes the germans a little shamefaced and guilty still

Good

I mean Christ white people enslaved blacks and slaughtered native americans hundreds of years ago and I still feel bad about that, NS's should probably swallow their pride

[SubtleDagger]

You treat typhus by delousing clothes and shaving the heads of inmates which may have lice that spread typhus. Delousing the inmates then lowers the chance of typhus. Yes yes, my views are ultimately biased becuase I disagree with whatever I watch on TV or see in the media.
Your view is biased because you throw out a legion of documented genocide and testimony as to the attempted extermination of a race because you "disagree with it"

[Hot Karl]

nah i think it's the systematic genocide of a people which makes the germans a little shamefaced and guilty still
Hitler never proposed nor planned a systematic extermination of the Jews. It's people like you who make Germans feel shame.

German: "I'm German, and I'm proud!"

You: "RACIST!"

[Zesty Mordant]

wow...at least guys like Irving and Zundel get paid large sums of money to exhorte incredibly stupid beliefs.

[Amit]

Hitler never proposed nor planned a systematic extermination of the Jews. It's people like you who make Germans feel shame.

German: "I'm German, and I'm proud!"

You: "RACIST!"

when did i ever say that lmao

it's awesome to be proud of your nationality

not so awesome to be proud of despicable actions in your nation's past, regardless of what nationality you come from

[Hot Karl]

Your view is biased because you throw out a legion of d0cumented genocide and testimony as to the attempted extermination of a race because you "disagree with it"
No, I believe the documentation is right.

http://judicial-inc.biz/pics/paarrge_2.jpg

[Hot Karl]

wow...at least guys like Irving and Zundel get paid large sums of money to exhorte incredibly stupid beliefs.
They're in jail thanks to the "no research on the holycost laws."

[SubtleDagger]

Hitler never proposed nor planned a systematic extermination of the Jews. It's people like you who make Germans feel shame.

That's funny because there's a whole lot of paperwork that clashes with your assessment

[Hot Karl]

when did i ever say that lmao

it's awesome to be proud of your nationality

not so awesome to be proud of despicable actions in your nation's past, regardless of what nationality you come from

Yes the poor Jews, NOONE suffered in Europe as much as they did.

[Hot Karl]

That's funny because there's a whole lot of paperwork that clashes with your assessment
That's funny because were is this paperwork. Is it from the Red Cross?

[Hot Karl]

Not to mention a lowered death toll in Auschwitz. But here is your logic:

6million - 3million = 6million

[Zesty Mordant]

They're in jail thanks to the "no research on the holycost laws."

putting words in my mouth? I never said that I agreed with the laws against holocaust denial.

and besides, most members of IHR aren't behind bars.

[SubtleDagger]

http://www.nizkor.com/features/qar/qar26.html

[Hot Karl]

http://www.nizkor.com/features/qar/qar26.html

Please, don't bother showing biased websites, I'm sure you wouldn't trust my "Nazi" websites. Let's ask the ADL what they think on the holycost!

[SubtleDagger]

Not to mention a lowered death toll in Auschwitz. But here is your logic:

6million - 3million = 6million
The old figure in Auschwitz has always been criticized by historians, it once again proves nothing for whatever cause you're for
Please, don't bother showing biased websites, I'm sure you wouldn't trust my "Nazi" websites. Let's ask the ADL what they think on the holycost!
Actually I've countered those sites point for point and proved them wrong easily

Unlike you, for instance

[Hot Karl]

The old figure in Aushcwitz has always been criticized by historians, it once again proves nothing for whatever cause you're for
It was 6 million then, and after the dropped count it is still 6 million. Even a decade before the holocaust, the 6 million count was predicted by a film producer.

[Amit]

Yes the poor Jews, NOONE suffered in Europe as much as they did.

again when did i say that

[Joey Hoser]

No, the Jews still study and preach the teachings of the Talmund. Catholics do not study nor preach those papal bulls which were used to conquest other lands during the medieval times.

Excuse me... are you trying to say here that every practicing Jew of today still wants to enslave black people?

[Hot Karl]

Excuse me... are you trying to say here that every practicing Jew of today still wants to enslave black people?
Probably not, they already have slaves from their media outlets. And probably not every Jew who is religious, most. There is Israel, then there are supporters of Israel.

[Joey Hoser]

Probably not, they already have slaves from their media outlets. And probably not every Jew who is religious, most. There is Israel, then there are supporters of Israel.

What is it about your life that sucks so bad to make you go on like this?

[Hababi]

wtf how does this piece of crap get 7 pages and my wonderful STICKIED election 06 thread struggle on to 2? Man you people let me down :o

EDIT: Ok a little more than two but come on, people. I realize it's easy to just sit back and flame a holocaust denier (I've been tempted to do so myself) but there's so much more rewarding discussion to be had.

EDIT 2: 8 pages now, bollocks!

[Hot Karl]

Slavery has a definition, and it doesn't actually bear much of a resemblance ot what you seem to be implying.
This type of media slavery refers to mind-control, to get supporters.


I completely disagree with laws against Holocaust denial, but assuming that the Holocaust was invented by Jews (a proposition with which I disagree entirely). Why does every serious historian think that it happened?
I don't agree that the holocaust was invented by the Jews, but these ridiculous claims and stories from holocost survivors are way out there to demonize Germans as a people not only the Nazis. Holocaust "denying" is anti-semitism. Why do holocost laws exist?

[Hot Karl]

wtf how does this piece of crap get 7 pages and my wonderful STICKIED election 06 thread struggle on to 2? Man you people let me down :o

EDIT: Ok a little more than two but come on, people. I realize it's easy to just sit back and flame a holocaust denier (I've been tempted to do so myself) but there's so much more rewarding discussion to be had.

EDIT 2: 8 pages now, bollocks!
Yes again with the "holocaust denier". There are more pages about the holocaust since no one bothered to even try and refute the main ideas and evidence presented in the main speech in the first post.

[Hababi]

Anyone who tries to diminish the depth and depravity of the actions of the Nazi regime and its many followers (read Hitler's willing executioners) counts as a Holocaust denier to me.


All arabs are muslims. Conclusive proof it was to do with religion.


Yeah just look at Reuters and their rabidly anti Jewish reporters.

[Amit]

i don't agree with laws against holocaust denial either

and those "ridiculous" claims and stories are definitely not created to demonize germans either :-\

[Hababi]

i don't agree with laws against holocaust denial either



On one hand I can see the argument for protecting freedom of speech and this and that...

But I wouldn't oppose a law against Holocaust denial, even here in the States. I can't be bothered to defend such people.

[Hot Karl]

Don't know where you live, but the media in Europe and most of the world is far from being pro-Israel most of the time. In the States it's more pro-Israel, but even then it's less so then the general population is.
I'm in the US, and all the major media outlets are Jew run. That is why the holocost has such a great influence over everyone. No one has heard of the Ukrainian Holocaust nor do they care.




So if you don't think that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by the Jews, specifically, who did it? The clear winners from the creation of a myth about the Holocaust would be the Jews, quite obviously. If they didn't do it, who did it and why? As for why laws on the Holocaust exist, they exist in former Nazi states out of a deep sense of shame and embarassment, and fear that if a critical mass of people reach the stage of seriously denying it again then it's on the road to something similar happening. But as I said, I completely oppose laws restricting or banning Holocaust denial.

Well as I said the Jews are exagerrating the holocaust, that means streching it too far. And if by inventing the holocaust, you mean inventing the ridiculous ideas then I agree as well. Holocaust laws are existant in most of European states because the holocaust is the base of the occupied state of Israel. Debunking it would mean no Israel.

[Hot Karl]

i don't agree with laws against holocaust denial either

and those "ridiculous" claims and stories are definitely not created to demonize germans either :-\
Really? Then why do the Jews in Austria give a a new sports stadium a presentation of the holocaust before the game. Apparently Jews beleive that the German people "must remember their dark past." Sounds like forcing shame on them as a people.

[Amit]

sorry to inform you but like it or not israel has already proven their sovereignty

you can waste all your life trying to debunk the holocaust and it won't matter one bit to the nation state of israel :-\

Really? Then why do the Jews in Austria give a a new sports stadium a presentation of the holocaust before the game. Apparently Jews beleive that the German people "must remember their dark past." Sounds like forcing shame on them as a people.

i don't agree with those actions at all

but what exactly is wrong with remembering the dark past of your country

[Hot Karl]

sorry to inform you but like it or not israel has already proven their sovereignty

you can waste all your life trying to debunk the holocaust and it won't matter one bit to the nation state of israel :-\
I will say this again. If no holocaust was accepted by norm, Israel would have never existed in the first place. They started war again Palestinians and are the world's grief. US soldiers are fighting a war for them so are many others. You agree with such barbaric ideas? Just because they occupied Palestien and slaughter Palestinians and muslims daily that they now have legitimate sovereighnty? WHy do you think 9/11 happened? Magically one day the muslims decided they hate western culture so let's blow up the towers?

[Hababi]

Yeah we remember the lynchings that the South did

So I think you guys can remember slaughtering 6 million Jews

[Hot Karl]

i don't agree with those actions at all

but what exactly is wrong with remembering the dark past of your country

So you agree or don't agree? Either it's right or wrong.

[Hot Karl]

Yeah we remember the lynchings that the South did


Now I'll point out the irony becuase I bet you haven't watched the video in this thread.

[Amit]

I will say this again. If no holocaust was accepted by norm, Israel would have never existed in the first place. They started war again Palestinians and are the world's grief. US soldiers are fighting a war for them so are many others. You agree with such barbaric ideas? Just because they occupied Palestien and slaughter Palestinians and muslims daily that they now have legitimate sovereighnty? WHy do you think 9/11 happened? Magically one day the muslims decided they hate western culture so let's blow up the towers?

nah they achieved legitimate sovereignty because of the various wars they have fought against arab aggressors

you know one of those foundations of civilization

fundamentalist islam is a much larger source of grief than israel will ever be

oh and 9/11 happened because of people using hate and ignorance to control the gullible and insecure

So you agree or don't agree? Either it's right or wrong.

agree or don't agree with what?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Okay, what's your point.

he's guilty of holocaust denial, world's stupidest crime (both for those committing it and those who think it should be a crime)??

[Hot Karl]

nah they achieved legitimate sovereignty because of the various wars they have fought against arab aggressors
Nah the arab aggressors wouldn't have been aggressive if Israel didn't occupy their lands.


oh and 9/11 happened because of people using hate and ignorance to control the gullible and insecure
9/11 happened once USA was involved in aiding Israel. Not because muslim extremists decided to make a pointless strike one day.



agree or don't agree with what?
You noted you don't agree with the stadium idea, but then don't see anything wrong with shoving "dark history" into heads of these nationals to make them feel shame.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Dark pasts are Aok


We were totally harsh to the Americans and totally sent all our criminals to Austrailia


We'd've apologised profusely for the fformer already if they hadn't pulled a certain stunt with crates of tea

they took it TOO FAR

[Amit]

Nah the arab aggressors wouldn't have been aggressive if Israel didn't occupy their lands.

tough luck for them

i'm sure the native americans are completely happy with us occupying their land as well

9/11 happened once USA was involved in aiding Israel. Not because muslim extremists decided to make a pointless strike one day.

attacks on the US only started after the collapse of the soviet union

funny how that works

two of the top reasons attacks on america/hate of the west started to happen/escalate is because of:

1) lack of soviet union in afghanistan for terrorists to worry about
2) stagnant economies/horrid quality of life for the overwhelming majority of muslims in the middle east

theological states who wished to hold onto their power over their discontent and terribly mismanaged nation states helped fuel hate for the west (leading to terrorism) through propoganda and letting terrorists prosper

letting terrorism prosper in their nation states led them to be even more handicapped when globalism started prospering and that only led to even worse economies and even more discontent among the masses

it's a fairly simple if reductionist summary of what's going on in the middle east

You noted you don't agree with the stadium idea, but then don't see anything wrong with shoving "dark history" into heads of these nationals to make them feel shame.

ah that's you putting words in people's mouths again

i never said or even implied they were right for "shoving 'dark history into heads of these nationals ot make them feel shame"

[Hot Karl]

Dark pasts are Aok


We were totally harsh to the Americans and totally sent all our criminals to Austrailia


We'd've apologised profusely for the fformer already if they hadn't pulled a certain stunt with crates of tea

they took it TOO FAR
I don't hear or see this type of thing being crammed into Americans' minds year by year in attempt to make them have white-guilt.

[Hot Karl]

tough luck for them

Tough luck for the Palestinians and Lebanese civillians being slaughtered by
Israelis? Occupation does not make a legitimate state, insurgency does not make legitimate sovereignty.

i'm sure the native americans are completely happy with us occupying their land as well
There have been ihabitants before the Native Americans, and America was nothing until the Europeans had made it into a vast super power.


attacks on the US only started after the collapse of the soviet union

funny how that works
Chronologically, many thigns happened after the collapse of the USSR, does this mean they are a result?

two of the top reasons attacks on america/hate of the west started to happen/escalate is because of:

1) lack of soviet union in afghanistan for terrorists to worry about
2) stagnant economies/horrid quality of life for the overwhelming majority of muslims in the middle east
No, this is actually logical:
1. Holocaust ensures Jews a piece of Palestine.
2. Israelis cause much aggression around the Arabic lands by slaughtering civilians and children.
3. USA's direct involvement in aiding Israel, (prominent Israeli foreign lobby AIPAC in US gov.)
4. 9/11


theological states who wished to hold onto their power over their discontent and terribly mismanaged nation states helped fuel hate for the west (leading to terrorism) through propoganda and letting terrorists prosper

it's a fairly simple if reductionist summary of what's going on
You're basicly implying Arabs are inherent terrorists who need to be controlled by forces such as the USSR or they will go flying planes into the world.



ah that's you putting words in people's mouths again

i never said or even implied they were right for "shoving 'dark history into heads of these nationals ot make them feel shame"
i don't agree with those actions at all

but what exactly is wrong with remembering the dark past of your country

Shoving dark past is exactly what they are doing.

[Cain]

That's funny because were is this paperwork. Is it from the Red Cross?

I'm pretty sure the Berlin Document Center would be a good place to start.

I will say this again. If no holocaust was accepted by norm, Israel would have never existed in the first place. They started war again Palestinians and are the world's grief. US soldiers are fighting a war for them so are many others. You agree with such barbaric ideas? Just because they occupied Palestien and slaughter Palestinians and muslims daily that they now have legitimate sovereighnty? WHy do you think 9/11 happened? Magically one day the muslims decided they hate western culture so let's blow up the towers?

Actually it's because Britain promised them the mandate and then reneged on their promise because Arabs controlled the oil. Jews had redeemed the disgusting deserted swamp that was Palestine in the years preceding the war, and the Jews who had moved there from Europe had already begun applying intense pressure on England to release it to them without the help of anyone. Arabs, who owed the redemption of their land to the Jews, fomented pogroms against them because of the feudalist and divided construction of their societies and because they feared the power such a motivated Jewish community would wield. The Holocaust created massive worldwide sympathy for the Jewish people, and since the British Empire was crumbling ever-increasing pressure was applied to them to release the mandate to the Jews as they had promised in 1918. Even then, the ratification by the United Nations of the state of Israel was a very near thing. You should look sometime at how the votes broke down.

Please, don't bother showing biased websites, I'm sure you wouldn't trust my "Nazi" websites. Let's ask the ADL what they think on the holycost!

Indeed, why bother with websites at all? The proof of your stupidity lies on the shelves of pretty much every single library and bookstore you could conveniently venture into.

And just in case you don't know where to start looking, you might try the "history" section to start. I figured I'd tell you because if I didn't you might accidentally stumble into the section where they have the Harry Turtledove novels and get confused.

[Surf]

hang on, hang on:

There have been ihabitants before the Native Americans, and America was nothing until the Europeans had made it into a vast super power.

are you talking about inhabitants in america before the native americans? like the vikings or the chinese or something?

[Hababi]

wtf Cain can't be bothered to give even a semi-Cain like response to me but then he goes not all out but half way out for a Holocaust revisionist? Tsk tsk that hurts, Cain.

[Hot Karl]

I'm pretty sure the Berlin Document Center would be a good place to start.
Then by all means, continue.


Actually it's because Britain promised them the mandate and then reneged on their promise because Arabs controlled the oil. Jews had redeemed the disgusting deserted swamp that was Palestine in the years preceding the war, and the Jews who had moved there from Europe had already begun applying intense pressure on England to release it to them without the help of anyone. Arabs, who owed the redemption of their land to the Jews, fomented pogroms against them because of the feudalist and divided construction of their societies and because they feared the power such a motivated Jewish community would wield. The Holocaust created massive worldwide sympathy for the Jewish people, and since the British Empire was crumbling ever-increasing pressure was applied to them to release the mandate to the Jews as they had promised in 1918. Even then, the ratification by the United Nations of the state of Israel was a very near thing. You should look sometime at how the votes broke down.
Britain and the UN promised the Jews their holy land which the Jews had no claim to. Insurgency, occupation, slaughtering of Palestinian civillians. But it's ok, they suffered the holocaust. It's that simple.


Indeed, why bother with websites at all? The proof of your stupidity lies on the shelves of pretty much every single library and bookstore you could conveniently venture into.
Indeed, I try to be civil, I have no intention of further talking to high school boys who use "gay" and "faggot" or childish use of name-calling in their arguements.

And just in case you don't know where to start looking, you might try the "history" section to start. I figured I'd tell you because if I didn't you might accidentally stumble into the section where they have the Harry Turtledove novels and get confused.
I have seen the books of Raul Hillberg, Yitzhak Arad, Yankel Wiernik, all widely accepted between one another and Israeli holocaust mudeums even if they are unreliable texts. All I get from you people is: "go check out real historians and a library!"

[Hot Karl]

hang on, hang on:



are you talking about inhabitants in america before the native americans? like the vikings or the chinese or something?
America was no one's land before the colonists, it was just a mass of undeveloped land. It doesn't matter who was here first.

[Hababi]

It was a mass of mostly undeveloped land for a while after the colonists came, too :p

[Surf]

It doesn't matter who was here first.

then why are you arguing against israel being populated by the jews?

[Hot Karl]

then why are you arguing against israel being populated by the jews?
Because Palestine is a nation with nationals who have developed the land, who were taken by the slaughter with no right or claim to the land on the part of the Jews. Europeans were the one who developed the land mass of America.

[Surf]

Because Palestine is a nation with nationals who have developed the land, who were taken by the slaughter with no right or claim to the land on the part of the Jews. Europeans were the one who developed the land mass of America.

....by killing native Americans (also a case of genocide), who were existing quite happily there thank you very much. Israel developed the land from something pretty basic into a city. does this then give them sovereignty?

[Hot Karl]

....by killing native Americans (also a case of genocide), who were existing quite happily there thank you very much. Israel developed the land from something pretty basic into a city. does this then give them sovereignty?
Americans didn't commit a mass extermination of Native Americans, while I don't agree to what they did, they still developed America to what it is today. Israel didn't develope anything, they stole something already existant. I said, insurrgency and occupation of an already existing piece of land, or nation does not create sovereignty.

[Amit]

Tough luck for the Palestinians and Lebanese civillians being slaughtered by
Israelis? Occupation does not make a legitimate state, insurgency does not make legitimate sovereignty.

atrocities occur on both sides; better start recognizing this if you want to have any credibility left

There have been ihabitants before the Native Americans, and America was nothing until the Europeans had made it into a vast super power.

umm what

Chronologically, many thigns happened after the collapse of the USSR, does this mean they are a result?

considering israel moved more and more towards self-sufficient defense as time went on (especially in the 90's) it is illogical for terrorists to strike 30 years late

the loss of the USSR as a target is one of the major reasons why the terrorists (and theological governments) started looking westwards for scapegoats

No, this is actually logical:
1. Holocaust ensures Jews a piece of Palestine.
2. Israelis cause much aggression around the Arabic lands by slaughtering civilians and children.
3. USA's direct involvement in aiding Israel, (prominent Israeli foreign lobby AIPAC in US gov.)
4. 9/11

that doesn't take into account at all the stagnant economies, terrible civil rights records, and horrible quality of life standards of the middle east

the masses never really want to become terrorists when they are content with what they have, how they are treated, and how they can get what they want

seems like a big woops on your behalf

You're basicly implying Arabs are inherent terrorists who need to be controlled by forces such as the USSR or they will go flying planes into the world.

no i am not

read for comprehension please

Shoving dark past is exactly what they are doing.

umm but i didn't say i supported that

again stop putting words into people's mouths

Americans didn't commit a mass extermination of Native Americans, while I don't agree to what they did, they still developed America to what it is today. Israel didn't develope anything, they stole something already existant. I said, insurrgency and occupation of an already existing piece of land, or nation does not create sovereignty.

israel didn't develop anything except for a thriving economy and far better human/civil rights than any of its neighbours

oh ok

[SubtleDagger]

Oh man burned by analogies

[Surf]

Americans didn't commit a mass extermination of Native Americans, while I don't agree to what they did, they still developed America to what it is today. Israel didn't develope anything, they stole something already existant. I said, insurrgency and occupation of an already existing piece of land, or nation does not create sovereignty.

scale is irrelevant; the principle is the same. stealing twenty million dollars is stealing just as stealing two dollars is.

[Hot Karl]

atrocities occur on both sides; better start recognizing this if you want to have any credibility left

Israeli atrocities are not accepted nor mentioned in today's media. I'll go back to my point, Israel has no right to exist.





considering israel moved more and more towards self-sufficient defense as time went on (especially in the 90's) it is illogical for terrorists to strike 30 years late

Israelis are always the defensive ones... It is always retaliation after retaliation. The war on Lebanon is far from an occupation in yoru mind?

the loss of the USSR as a target is one of the major reasons why the terrorists (and theological governments) started looking westwards for scapegoats
I've already given you logical facts, there was no problem between muslims and America until USA got involved with aiding Israel, which are the muslims' enemy.



that doesn't take into account at all the stagnant economies, terrible civil rights records, and horrible quality of life standards of the middle east

the masses never really want to become terrorists when they are content with what they have, how they are treated, and how they can get what they want

seems like a big woops on your behalf
There are terrible living conditions in many parts of the world, yet you don't see them flying into buildings all over the world.

The masses are "terrorists" becuase they are fighting Israel's oppression on it's neighbors.



no i am not

read for comprehension please
Yes you are, you say that the Arabs are terrorists that need to be contained. And since they aren't because of the USSR's collapse they are going wild with explosives.



umm but i didn't say i supported that

again stop putting words into people's mouths


You asked, what is wrong with it?

israel didn't develop anything except for a thriving economy and far better human/civil rights than any of its neighbours

Guess where Israel got its billions of dollars for war. And civil rights there only exist for Jews.

[Hot Karl]

scale is irrelevant; the principle is the same. stealing twenty million dollars is stealing just as stealing two dollars is.
The only thing relevant is that America was not a nation while Palestine was and is even though mutilated by the thorn to the world's side.

[JoshIsNumber3]

Americans didn't commit a mass extermination of Native Americans


ref; 1492 to late 19th century

[Surf]

Nation

–noun 1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.
2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.
3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.
4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

i refer you specifically to points 3 and 4, now answer, how were the american indians (living on their own land) not in the same boat as the palestians?

[Hot Karl]

ref; 1492 to late 19th century

ref; Americans did not plan the total annihalation of Native Americans.

[AA-12]

when did i ever say that lmao

it's awesome to be proud of your nationality

not so awesome to be proud of despicable actions in your nation's past, regardless of what nationality you come from

It's despicable to let sick people destroy your heritage with lies.

[JoshIsNumber3]

The issue with Israel and Palestinians isn't based on Israel, it's based on the imperial empires that the world was cut up to and these people simply want to rule themselves for a change, it just so happens that a country populated of Jews (could be Christians, Hindus, Athiests, whatever) is the subject to this.

[Hot Karl]

i refer you specifically to points 3 and 4, now answer, how were the american indians (living on their own land) not in the same boat as the palestians?
The Native Americans were only living as tribes inhabitant to undeveloped territory. USA is a nation, not pre-colonial America. Palestinians aren't tribes that just happen to live in Palestine, there is a government existant, economy,etc.

[JoshIsNumber3]

ref; Americans did not plan the total annihalation of Native Americans.

The annihilation of the Native Americans was thought out and systematic, we wanted as much land and resources as we could get, they happened to be on it and we were going to take it. The quickest way to make sure that something is yours is to kill whoever owns it.

[Surf]

The Native Americans were only living as tribes inhabitant to undeveloped territory. USA is a nation, not pre-colonial America. Palestinians aren't tribes that just happen to live in Palestine, there is a government existant, economy,etc.


you miss the point. they were people living in a place and were upheaved to make way for another culture. which part of that sentence could not be applied to israel/palestine. whether they had a system of government is irrellevnat; different cultures work in different ways - their culture was not based on government. does that mean that they were any less viable a people than the palestinians in terms of being able to possess a nation?

[Hot Karl]

you miss the point. they were people living in a place and were upheaved to make way for another culture. which part of that sentence could not be applied to israel/palestine. whether they had a system of government is irrellevnat; different cultures work in different ways - their culture was not based on government. does that mean that they were any less viable a people than the palestinians in terms of being able to possess a nation?
Which part of America was not a nation and Palestine is, don't you understand?
While I do not agree with the bloody battles with the Native Americans, America was created by Europeans like it or not. Israel wasn't built by Jews.

[ATC]

Which part of America was not a nation and Palestine is, don't you understand?
While I do not agree with the bloody battles with the Native Americans, America was created by Europeans like it or not. Israel wasn't built by Jews.

What part of analogy don't you understand?
And also, the territory of certain tribes is referred to as nation. Pre-colonial america was comprised of many nations.
The nation of Israel was built by Jews/the British. There was no nation of Palestine before them.

[Hot Karl]

What part of analogy don't you understand?
And also, the territory of certain tribes is referred to as nation. Pre-colonial america was comprised of many nations.
The nation of Israel was built by Jews/the British. There was no nation of Palestine before them.

Jews did not build Israel, the only thing they build is synagogues and weapons thanks to our billions of tax dollars. A bunch of rival tribes inhabiting forests and grasslands does not mean nation. We could go back to Kennewick man, and say a white originally inhabited America. Europeans built it from scrap.

[ATC]

nation n. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.

Are you telling me the Sioux or any other tribe were not 'a relatively large group of people', that they 'were organized under a single,usually independent government' (they might not have a centralized government in the modern sense but that's not reason enough for disqualification) or that they had enough territory for a small country? They had a distinctive culture, another trait of nations, I'm told.

Uh, since the state of Israel was a post-war one, Israel was built by the jews. Prior to the creation of Israel, Israel did not exist and certainly not to be built. You can't build something that did not exist. Logic.

[Surf]

i've already provided a dictionary definition, but he just can't seem to grasp the idea of it.

[Hot Karl]

i've already provided a dictionary definition, but he just can't seem to grasp the idea of it.

3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.

Native Americans have independant lands, this does not make the whole of America the The United States Of Native America.

4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

This can be applied only when the aggregation is in predominatly large numbers throughout the nation, not scarce tribes roaming fields of nothing.

[ATC]

Native Americans have independant lands, this does not make the whole of America the The United States Of Native America.

No, reservations are not independent lands.


This can be applied only when the aggregation is in predominatly large numbers throughout the nation, not scarce tribes roaming fields of nothing.

Uh,many of the larger populations were larger than many modern nations. There were many tribes with a distinct territory. Fields of nothing? You might want a history lesson.

[Hot Karl]

No, reservations are not independent lands.

Even better, Native Americans don't have any independent land in America. Thanks for proving him wrong.


Uh,many of the larger populations were larger than many modern nations. There were many tribes with a distinct territory. Fields of nothing? You might want a history lesson.

Again, America was built by Europeans from scrap, not Native Americans. ISrael was not established by the Jews or the Jews would haev it to begin with. End of story.

[ATC]

Even better, Native Americans don't have any independent land in America. Thanks for proving him wrong.


Wow, your stupidity astounds me. That does not prove him wrong, it proves you wrong.


Again, America was built by Europeans from scrap, not Native Americans. ISrael was not established by the Jews or the Jews would haev it to begin with. End of story.

Hmm I'm fairly certain that the cognitive dissonance involved in believing that will eat you alive.

[SubtleDagger]

I have never seen anyone try so hard to make semantics work in their favor and fail so miserably

[Hot Karl]

Hmm I'm fairly certain that the cognitive dissonance involved in believing that will eat you alive.
I'm fairly certain I'm done with your annoying floods of anything I have to say.

I propose the topic discussed 9 pages ago. Stop talking about Native Americans and the holycost. No one has attempted to refute the speech - Jews were dominant in involvement with slavery.

[SubtleDagger]

I still don't really see what slavery has to do with anything

I mean it's pretty clear you're just trying to say "JEWS ARE EVIL I HATE THEM" here

[Hot Karl]

I still don't really see what slavery has to do with anything

I mean it's pretty clear you're just trying to say "JEWS ARE EVIL I HATE THEM" here

Watch the speech, it's about slavery....

[JoshIsNumber3]

It's one thing to say that certain groups of Jews may have had a hand in the slave trade, but to make the statement that Jews were dominant in the entire process of slavery is outlandish. Your political and ethic vendettas are as bare and as flawed as the logic that is presented in this thread.

[SubtleDagger]

I already wasted something like an hour dealing with a bigoted moron, I'm not going to waste another one

[spitfirejunky]

Sounds like testimony at Nuremburg. Presiding judge: "Ok, that's all the evidence I need."

You simply can't debunk several independent investigations. Even if all of them were wrong, like you say, you youself have absolutely no validity beyond personal opinion and flimsy historical references.

If you're so hellbent on proving thousands of investigators wrong, find a group of forensic scientists who conducted investigations that give your point more support.

[Hot Karl]

I already wasted something like an hour dealing with a bigoted moron, I'm not going to waste another one

Typical response... I don't see why you are in this thread if you know nothing of the main topic.

[SubtleDagger]

Typical response... I don't see why you are in this thread if you know nothing of the main topic.

No, you've explained the topic multiple times, it just has nothing to do with anything

[Cain]

Britain and the UN promised the Jews their holy land which the Jews had no claim to. Insurgency, occupation, slaughtering of Palestinian civillians. But it's ok, they suffered the holocaust. It's that simple.

Actually, what I said was right. You're still being wrong.

Indeed, I try to be civil, I have no intention of further talking to high school boys who use "gay" and "large bundle of sticks" or childish use of name-calling in their arguements.

Stupidity is a condition you are unfortunately afflicted with. It's not a name. I actually don't think I've called you a single name in the very short time I've been refuting your arguments.

All I get from you people is: "go check out real historians and a library!"

Well have you? It's not like the only literature you can find on the Holocaust is written by Jews. For instance:

http://www.amazon.com/Commandant-Auschwitz-Autobiography-Rudolf-Hoess/dp/1842120247/sr=8-1/qid=1160772196/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0205556-3219966?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/Labyrinth-Memoirs-Schellenberg-Hitlers-Counterintelligence/dp/0306809273/sr=1-1/qid=1160772255/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0205556-3219966?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Order-Deaths-Head-Military-History/dp/0141390123/sr=1-2/qid=1160772554/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-0205556-3219966?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Into-That-Darkness-Examination-Conscience/dp/0394710355/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_1/104-0205556-3219966?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution/dp/0060995068/ref=pd_sim_b_3/104-0205556-3219966?ie=UTF8

[Hot Karl]

No, you've explained the topic multiple times, it just has nothing to do with anything
It's the main topic, it has to do with the thread.

[SubtleDagger]

It's the main topic, it has to do with the thread.
/slow clap

Why are we supposed to care about the Jews' place in the slave trade as presented by a bunch of racists

[Hot Karl]

/slow clap

Why are we supposed to care about the Jews' place in the slave trade as presented by a bunch of racists

:rolleyes:

I'm not forcing you to stay here and make you care...

Apparently you can't connect the thread with it's topic.

Dr. Martin is not even racist, oh wait he questions Jewish slave trade he's a dirty bigot moron!

[Cain]

:rolleyes:

I'm not forcing you to stay here and make you care...

Apparently you can't connect the thread with it's topic.

Dr. Martin is not even racist, oh wait he questions history involved with Jews, he's a dirty bigot moron!

hey have you clicked on those links that i gave you

[spitfirejunky]

I'll ask this again, TS:

Why do you have more resent towards the Jews than any other group who had as big a hand in slavery? Why do you blame succeeding generations of Jews for this slavery if they're clearly not proactively enslaving any groups?

[Hot Karl]

hey have you clicked on those links that i gave you

I assume you have read them all?

[Hot Karl]

I'll ask this again, TS:

Why do you have more resent towards the Jews than any other group who had as big a hand in slavery? Why do you blame succeeding generations of Jews for this slavery if they're clearing not proactively enslaving any groups?

If anything the Jews have been dominantly involved in slavery than other groups by percentage. I'm not blaming them entirely for slavery, they deny their role in it.

[Cain]

I assume you have read them all?

First tell me if you understand who the authors are. Have you heard of any of them before?

[spitfirejunky]

If anything the Jews have been dominantly involved in slavery than other groups by percentage. I'm not blaming them entirely for slavery, they deny their role in it.

Even if the current generations of Jews deny it, the fact that they are no longer involved in it is reason enough to not to hate them any more than any other group that is no longer involved in slavery.

[Hot Karl]

First tell me if you understand who the authors are. Have you heard of any of them before?
I asked, have you read all of these books?

[SubtleDagger]

Even if the current generations of Jews deny it, the fact that they are no longer involved in it is reason enough to not to hate them any more than any other group that is no longer involved in slavery.
Yes

And this is why the topic is pretty frigging unimportant

[Hot Karl]

Even if the current generations of Jews deny it, the fact that they are no longer involved in it is reason enough to not to hate them any more than any other group that is no longer involved in slavery.
Another point is that Jews still practice the talmunic teachings, which justify slavery of gentiles, or "goyim", refered to as cattle by the Jews.

[Cain]

I asked, have you read all of these books?

I have read "The Order of the Death's Head" and "The Labyrinth." I am interested to read "Into that Darkness" and eventually Rudolf Höss's autobiography/confession.

Do you understand the significance of the author's names?

[Hot Karl]

I have read "The Order of the Death's Head" and "The Labyrinth." I am interested to read "Into that Darkness" and eventually Rudolf Höss's autobiography/confession.

Do you understand the significance of the author's names?

Don't present something as source if you haven't read it all. Either way, telling me to read a book is not evidence.

[spitfirejunky]

Another point is that Jews still practice the talmunic teachings, which justify slavery of gentiles, or "goyim", refered to as cattle by the Jews.

I cannot name a single population of Jews that proactively practice slavery today.

I can justify child molesting. But if I don't act on it, I won't be any less innocent than any other person who doesn't molest children.

[Cain]

Don't present something as source if you haven't read it all. Either way, telling me to read a book is not evidence.

That's not the point. Do you know who the authors are? That's the only point I was illustrating.

[Hot Karl]

I cannot name a single population of Jews that proactively practice slavery today.

I can justify child molesting. But if I don't act on it, I won't be any less innocent than any other person who doesn't molest children.

I just said, they study and preach the teachings of the Talmund which concludes that gentiles are to be treated like cattle among Jews. If you think human trafficing in Israel doesn't exist, you're wrong. Women are used as sex-slaves for the profit of it, and these are women from Eastern-Europe.

[Hot Karl]

That's not the point. Do you know who the authors are? That's the only point I was illustrating.

No, nor are my care pants on.

[spitfirejunky]

I just said, they study and preach the teachings of the Talmund which concludes that gentiles are to be treated like cattle among Jews. If you think human trafficing in Israel doesn't exist, you're wrong. Women are used as sex-slaves for the profit of it, and these are women from Eastern-Europe.

Does the state knowingly allow this to happen? Does every Jew engage in this trafficking, let alone support it?

The burden of proof is on you. That's a rather wild claim.

[Cain]

No, nor are my care pants on.

If you don't know the author's names or the significance of them, then you don't know enough about the Holocaust to make any sort of judgement about what is true and what is false in the generally accepted historical literature on the subject. Höss' name is familiar to every amateur student of World War II history. The other ones are par for the course on any study of either the Holocaust, the SS, or Nazi Germany, with the exception of Höhne, who is a relatively contemporary German journalist from the latter half of the century.

[Hot Karl]

Does the state knowingly allow this to happen? Does every Jew engage in this trafficking, let alone support it?

The burden of proof is on you. That's a rather wild claim.

The state is zionist, and would agree with such behavior although openly claiming they have no involvement or contempt for such disgusting behavior.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2212906081716661355&q=israel&hl=en

[Hot Karl]

If you don't know the author's names or the significance of them, then you don't know enough about the Holocaust to make any sort of judgement about what is true and what is false in the generally accepted historical literature on the subject.

Care pants.

[Cain]

Care pants.

It doesn't matter. You actually admitted to utter ignorance of the basic facts of something you claim to know the truth about. If you don't care, fine. But anybody can see that you're wrong now.

[JoshIsNumber3]

Then your argument is as void as your opinion is.

[Hot Karl]

Credibility = 0. No use arguing with you anymore!

You arguement is nothing, you're asking me if I known who these people are. Meanwhile you haven't even read all of their books. Like I'm going to be swayed with your little introduction.

[SubtleDagger]

He hasn't read their books but at least he's not so much at a lack of information that he doesn't know who they are

[spitfirejunky]

The state is zionist, and would agree with such behavior although openly claiming they have no involvement or contempt for such disgusting behavior.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2212906081716661355&q=israel&hl=en

Do you agree that the cops made an effort to stop that instance of human trafficking?

[Hot Karl]

He hasn't read their books but at least he's not so much at a lack of informationt hat he doesn't know who they are

The holocost is irrefutable now!

[Cain]

You arguement is nothing, you're asking me if I known who these people are. Meanwhile you haven't even read all of their books.

I don't have to because three of them are significant historical figures in their own right and if you are not familiar with their names you don't know enough of the basic, basic facts about the Holocaust and therefore have no place making any sort of judgement about the truth of its occurence.

Do you know these names specifically:

Rudolf Höss
Walter Schellenberg
Franz Stangl

Höss is the author of the first book I linked you to, Schellenberg the author of the second. Stangl helped write the fourth by providing interviews to the author. These are all famous historical figures who are central to any basic comprehensive study of either Nazi Germany or the Holocaust.

For the final time, are you familiar with these names?

[Hot Karl]

Do you agree that the cops made an effort to stop that instance of human trafficking?
Do you agree they were harsh towards the Russian girls there? If slaves are discovered and this is publicized, you think the Zionist government would make absoulately NO effort to release the slaves? That wouldn't make sense.

[spitfirejunky]

Do you agree they were harsh towards the Russian girls there? If slaves are discovered and this is publicized, you think the Zionist government would make absoulately NO effort to release the slaves? That wouldn't make sense.

Cops answer to crimes that infringe on the laws of the state. Had that been state-sponsored, the cops would not have rescued the slaves as it would not have been a crime to enslave them.

And the fact that Jewish cops released them is reason enough not to hold the entire population responsible for it.

[Hot Karl]

I don't have to because three of them are significant historical figures in their own right and if you are not familiar with their names you don't know enough of the basic, basic facts about the Holocaust and therefore have no place making any sort of judgement about the truth of its occurence.

Do you know these names specifically:

Rudolf Höss
Walter Schellenberg
Franz Stangl

Höss is the author of the first book I linked you to, Schellenberg the author of the second. Stangl helped write the fourth by providing interviews to the author. These are all famous historical figures who are central to any basic comprehensive study of either Nazi Germany or the Holocaust.

For the final time, are you familiar with these names?

Yeah, I don't see how this is relevant though.

[Hot Karl]

Cops answer to crimes that infringe on the laws of the state. Had that been state-sponsored, the cops would not have rescued the slaves as it would not have been a crime to enslave them.

And the fact that Jewish cops released them is reason enough not to hold the entire population responsible for it.

My point went directly over your head. The Zionist state beleives in Jewish Supremacy, evident in the Talmund. The state would never openly admit they do not support such actions or be involved. Once it is publicized they have no choice but to release the slaves to protect their reputation as a state. I'm done with you.

[Cain]

Yeah, I don't see how this is relevant though.

Who are they? I'm astonished that you can't see the relevance of why I am asking this question given the original post of yours that prompted the links. And I'd better see a prompt response to this because I could type one in thirty seconds if you asked me the same question and if you take any longer I'm going to assume that you're looking it up on wikipedia. And even if you did, the information you would find would still prove my point.

So: who are they?

[Joey Hoser]

Yeah, I don't see how this is relevant though.

Because they are the proprietors of the information you are arguing against. If you don't know who they are... you obviously don't have a good grasp what you are talking about.

[Hot Karl]

Who are they? I'm astonished that you can't see the relevance of why I am asking this question given the original post of yours that prompted the links. And I'd better see a prompt response to this because I could type one in thirty seconds if you asked me the same question and if you take any longer I'm going to assume that you're looking it up on wikipedia. And even if you did, the information you would find would still prove my point.

So: who are they?

Obviously they were high command Nazis, Hoess was in charge of Auschwitz-Birkenau. He was tortured by the British before the Nuremburg trials to forcibly say Auchwitz was a death camp. Stangl was in charge of Sobibor and Treblinka, both camps are said to have used diesel gas engines to exterminate Jews by poisoning them with carbon dioxide. Even though diesel gas hardly gives off high concentrated emmisions of carbon dioxide, the jews were said to have been killed by the blaring engines spouting off soot and air in 2 minutes of less.

[Hot Karl]

Because they are the proprietors of the information you are arguing against. If you don't know who they are... you obviously don't have a good grasp what you are talking about.

I don't see why people like you have to flood here with comments. Cain has his arguement let him present it himself.

[Joey Hoser]

I don't see why people like you have to flood here with comments. Cain has his arguement let him present it himself.

Yeah... sorry. I'm just reading through and I'm horny for answers so I thought I'd get in there.

[thedeadwalk!]

My point went directly over your head. The Zionist state beleives in Jewish Supremacy, evident in the Talmund. The state would never openly admit they do not support such actions or be involved. Once it is publicized they have no choice but to release the slaves to protect their reputation as a state. I'm done with you.
Sex traficking happens all over the world. Even with prostitutes in America, it's hard to shutdown because efforts just relocate them.

What they did is not much different from what American law enforcement would do.

[Cain]

Glad you were finally able to figure out who these people were! Good job actually clicking on the links and reading the comments by people who read the book. Still no entry for Schellenberg. That's a shame. I'll wait for you to wiki him or something.

Obviously they were high command Nazis, Hoess was in charge of Auschwitz-Birkenau. He was tortured by the British before the Nuremburg trials to forcibly say Auchwitz was a death camp.

Yeah, that's what the third guy down ranted about on that Amazon page. I figured you'd latch on to that and agree with him. Anyhow, he had already testified to the nature of his work in the trials of Kaltenbrunner and IG Farben in the main cache of Nuremburg trials against SS men, and had testified himself that he had run a death camp in his own trial before the supposed "British torture" that "forced him to write a confession" was supposed to have taken place. And the supposition that his autobiography was doctored comes from David Irving anyway, and we've already established (as has the British legal system) that he is a bigot and not an historian.

Stangl was in charge of Sobibor and Treblinka, both camps are said to have used diesel gas engines to exterminate Jews by poisoning them with carbon dioxide. Even though diesel gas hardly gives off high concentrated emmisions of carbon dioxide, the jews were said to have been killed by the blaring engines spouting off soot and air in 2 minutes of less.

This is right, but only because you're mixing up your gases. They give off concentrated emissions of carbon monoxide. And yeah, if you were in a concrete room with a running diesal engine you'd go pretty fast. Although, two minutes is too short, that's right also. It took more like thirty minutes, which was too slow for the Nazis, which is why they made IG Farben make them Zyklon-B insecticide for use in gas chambers rather than the carbon monoxide methods. This is when Stangl's system of death camps became eclipsed by Auschwitz as the leading exterminator, in 1943.

[Hot Karl]

Sex traficking happens all over the world. Even with prostitutes in America, it's hard to shutdown because efforts just relocate them.

What they did is not much different from what American law enforcement would do.

You wonder why the porn industry is dominated by Jews...

[thedeadwalk!]

You wonder why the animal photographs industry is dominated by Jews...
I'm wondering who dominates the sex trafficking industry. Because porn isn't the same thing.

[SubtleDagger]

Aparrently Jews do

You know, sex trafficking, porn, slavery, all the same thing really

[thedeadwalk!]

I just came across an interesting tidbit: apparently women and children abducted into trafficking are mostly done so by persons of the same ethnicity.

[spitfirejunky]

My point went directly over your head. The Zionist state beleives in Jewish Supremacy, evident in the Talmund. The state would never openly admit they do not support such actions or be involved. Once it is publicized they have no choice but to release the slaves to protect their reputation as a state. I'm done with you.

You set out to prove that all Jews are responsible for slavery since we can blame each and every individual for it. What you showed is still not grounds for blaming all Jews for slavery. With your reasoning, not all Jews can possibly fund and traffic sex slaves since there's an international press at the helm. The fact that they must answer to international law prevents this practice from becoming mainstream. And the fact that they cannot practice it to a mainstream extent would have to suggest that not all Jews are doing it.

Perhaps they believe in slavery and whatnot. But believing is not doing.

[Hot Karl]

Yeah, that's what the third guy down ranted about on that Amazon page. I figured you'd latch on to that and agree with him. Anyhow, he had already testified to the nature of his work in the trials of Kaltenbrunner and IG Farben in the main cache of Nuremburg trials against SS men, and had testified himself that he had run a death camp in his own trial before the supposed "British torture" that "forced him to write a confession" was supposed to have taken place. And the supposition that his autobiography was doctored comes from David Irving anyway, and we've already established (as has the British legal system) that he is a bigot and not an historian.

No I never clicked those links anyway. The Nazi officials have been tortured after they were captured as by Allied policy. I don't really care what you have established about Irving.



This is right, but only because you're mixing up your gases. They give off concentrated emissions of carbon monoxide. And yeah, if you were in a concrete room with a running diesal engine you'd go pretty fast. Although, two minutes is too short, that's right also. It took more like thirty minutes, which was too slow for the Nazis, which is why they made IG Farben make them Zyklon-B insecticide for use in gas chambers rather than the carbon monoxide methods. This is when Stangl's system of death camps became eclipsed by Auschwitz as the leading exterminator, in 1943.
Honest mistake, I meant to say monoxide instead of dioxide.

This does not change anything, Treblinka and Sobibor were said to have killed hundreds of thousand by diesel gas not zyklon-B. A prominent witness to Treblink, Abraham Bomba, cut the hair for delousing in Treblink. According to Bomba, they cut their Jews' hair inside the gas chambers which were 12 by 12 feet rooms.

Here is an alleged map of treblinka: http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/imgs_treblinka/map.jpg

Number 32 would be the diesel gas chamber.

Bomba says there would be around 16 or 17 barbers in these rooms, with benches for the Jews. They would cut 17 Jews' hair at once inside one 12 by 12 foot room. 150 jews were said to have came into the room and would take turn with haircuts. There were 3 guards inside the room. The hair was then apparently transported to Germany for mattress stuffing exclussively for beds made for women.
The poisoning was said to be done in 5 minutes. The bodies were cleared in 1-2 minutes.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p244_Smith.html

[Hot Karl]

I just came across an interesting tidbit: apparently women and children abducted into trafficking are mostly done so by persons of the same ethnicity.

Except the Zionists wouldn't enslave their own, they go for Eastern-European women by luring them with fake promises of jobs as actresses.

[Tyr]

Except the Zionists wouldn't enslave their own, they go for Eastern-European women by luring them with fake promises of jobs as actresses.

You realize that a large percentage of the Israeli Jews are of Eastern European descent, don't you. The largest group of immigrants come from Russia.

[Hot Karl]

You realize that a large percentage of the Israeli Jews are of Eastern European descent, don't you. The largest group of immigrants come from Russia.
:rolleyes: They aren't ethnicly Russian, or any other European ethnicity. They are only Jews from Europe who borrowed European names. Jews aren't of European descent, they are a semitic people.